an election fraud link that lays it out pretty clearly

[ginnyinWI]

A good one to check out to remind us of who our elected president really and truly is.

It's in this Greatest Page thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=393039&mesg_id=393039

[fedupinBushcountry]

1. The movement has to begin to get results

I think Kerry knows this, he has mentioned over and over how it was the people who changed things. We need a strong movement on all the things happening right now. I also believe they stole the Senate too, and as far as Congress goes, well the redistricting in Texas points out part of it.

It also proves Kerry was not WEAK, and I am sick of people saying he was, they are hypocrites IMO.

To me this part of the report stands out for me as far as anything ever being done to fix it, I myself would like to have a revote, but I know that would never happen, they just steal and steal, and we the American people let them get away with it.

What can be done? The Eugene McCarthy campaign of 1968 and the George McGovern campaign in 1972 didn’t end the war in Vietnam. The Vietnamese people and the anti-war movement ended the war. Civil rights weren’t secured because JFK and LBJ suddenly woke up to racial discrimination. The Civil Rights Movement and Black Power Movement galvanized public opinion and rocked this country to its foundations. Men didn’t suddenly wake up and realize that they were male chauvinist pigs - women formed the Women’s Movement, organized, marched, rallied, and demanded nothing less than equality, shaking this country to the core. The Bush administration is bogged down and sinking deeper in Iraq not mainly because the top figures of the Bush administration consist of liars, blind (and incompetent) ideologues, international outlaws and propagators of torture as an official policy, but because the Iraqi people have risen up against imperialist invasion. Prior to the war, the international anti-Iraq war movement brought out millions of people into the streets, the largest demonstrations in history, denying the U.S. imperialists the UN’s sanction and leading to Turkey denying US requests to use their land as a staging area. These are major, world-historic feats.

[ginnyinWI]

3. it's true

A reading from any part of Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States will show it--change happens primarily from the ground up because of actions taken by the oppressed group. In this case it's we the American voters.

I am also sick of Dems, in particular, who tear apart Kerry's campaign, character, integrity, etc. based on the fact that he isn't in the White House now. As if the 2000 election debacle didn't happen, and as if the same cast of players wasn't at work in 2004. Kerry could not reform our electoral system single-handedly. The best he could have hoped for, after Nov. 2nd, was a victory in the courts. Not only was that unlikely, but as he said in his concession speech, he wanted to win at the ballot box, not in the courts. And I think he was smart to take that position, given that he knew he'd be working with a Republican House and Senate and needed a clear mandate from the people to get anything done.

[whometense]

5. Yeah.

Kerry could not reform our electoral system single-handedly.

When I'm not freaking out with despair I feel like I have a front row seat at a Moment In History. In a lot of ways it does feel like the sixties, in the sense you had back then that there was a huge public awareness dawning after the relative calm of the 50's.

I think a lot of democrats really did see Kerry as the white knight come to rescue us. In a sense he was that to me too (and still is). I just feel like I have a more realistic sense of what could be expected of one man - even a man as amazing as Kerry. All of us Kerry fans do. And I think we also have more of a sense of what is needed from us as citizens. It's not a matter of just voting and carping. It's a matter of really getting behind our people and pushing to help them.

Is it just me, or has the tome towards Kerry been turning around the past week or so? It seems like more and more supporters are emboldened (by the polls?) to speak up.

[ginnyinWI]

6. I've noticed that too

A couple of times some one of us has posted a link to a GDP thread and said, "go quick before the bashing starts", etc., but it has not happened! It just goes to proove that a lot of the anger at Kerry is displaced anger at *. Because the media is now bashing *, their tension is lessened. That's how I see it. It's like their frustrations are being heard and shared by the media for once.

Another theory: the Freeps posing as Dems in order to bash JK are losing faith in their Dear Leader and have lost their appetite for a fight.

edit: oh yes, and I meant to say, Kudos to us for sticking with Kerry since the election. We are not unlike the Winter Soldiers. ;)

[TayTay]

2. Once again, I believe 2004 was one of the most important

elections in US history. Yeah, I know that we didn't get the ultimate result we wanted. But it made people sit up and take notice. And there have been ripples sent out from that election that have not stopped. The liberal blogs have expanded since the election and membership is up, not down. A lot of people are involved in ways that they haven't been in years.

This is prelude to a change. This is an amazing buildup of energy and interest and it will go places. I beg you to check out the website that concerned citizens of Ohio put up to fight election fraud. This movement sprang up from the people themselves who care and value democracy and are willing to fight for it. http://www.reformohionow.org/

This is just the beginning. Believe it.

[karynnj]

4. Totally agree

In any other year, a former Presidential candidate could not get the number of people in several locations in the state that came out to see Kerry. Nor, would he get front page banner references to the article in a mid-sized paper. The norm would be a paragraph in the community section - saying essentially he came, giving place and date.

There are people, in this Republican stronghold, getting involved who never were involved before.

[ginnyinWI]

7. yes

The people he inspired and mobilized have stayed that way, because he has kept their faith, and because he still offers the hope of change. He was/is the Real Deal and was not in it just for the duration of the campaign. So if he can do it, we can do it. Real leaders inspire.

Your account of the huge crowd in NJ is further proof. :thumbsup:

[karynnj]

8. Actually the points made in this tread are even more true than I thought

I was at the County Democratic headquarters calling people for Corzine and the 2 assembly candiates. One thing I learned is that 460 people signed and gave addresses, phone numbers and email at the rally. They didn't require people to sign in and this is a county where many have unlisted numbers. This gives them a nice list of potential vounteers for the future.

If they use this well, this could be a godsend to the county. So, no matter what our Freeper assemblyman said mocking Kerry, Kerry did accomplish at least one goal - he is helping create grassroots in the most Republican county in the state. The other woman calling had never been involved before last Oct/Nov either - she volunteered because of Kerry's emails too.

Some of the calling I did was to a predominately black/hispanic neighborhood in Morristown. All the people I called were 60+. (We didn't want to leave messages because we wanted to identify how they were going to vote and this was the best group to call in an afternoon. ) It is traditionally very Democratic, but the intensity was amazing - many went out of their way to say they were voting and only for Democrats.

The poll out today in the Star Ledger has Corzine nearly 20 points ahead.

[TayTay]

9. Sometimes this stuff simmers for awhile

The defining election for the Repubs was 1964. They lost that election in a landslide, so it wasn't the result that made it one of the pivotal elections of the 20th century. Activists within the conservative movement had a candidate and a set of ideas to begin to build on. And boy, did they ever. There is a strong case to be made that that election, more so than '68 or '72, was the election that began to turn the tide.

I think 2004 was that kind of election for liberals. I really do. Of course I wanted a different outcome. But look at what has happened. Despite all the carping and fussing in DU about which candidate can pass the purity tests, there is increased activity over last year. We don't suffer from a lack of ideas, in fact we are swimming in a dizzying pool of ideas and opinions and thoughts about how to go forward. This is a very good thing, though hard to take in it's undiluted form. (Democrats are very messy people in general. We tend to air out all our laundry right in full view of everyone. We argue incessantly and disagree loudly and frequently. This is a sign of health, not decay. Don't let the idiotic media reports that the 'Dems are in disarray' get to you. It's true, but also not true at the same time.)

As you have pointed out Karynnj, something happened last year. It is useful to have non-Mass people point this out, since Kerry was an unknown to most before the primaries. (And for some, an unknown until the debates when the Party suddenly embraced him and decided he was a damn good candidate.) Volunteers are up. Money contributions to the Dems are way up. (The Senate Dems are out fundraising their Rethug counterparts, don't ya know.) And It is foolishness to pretend that the nominee last year had nothing to do with this. (Just as it would be foolish to say it was all due to Kerry's influence. There are greater political currents at play. But he certainly helped.)