I dont know about you guys but I am sick of us eating our own

[JohnKleeb]

I admit it, Ive been to GD and all people do is knock the dems, now I don't agree with some stuff but I am just sick of people bashing the dems at every oppertunity, this party ain't perfect but what is really truly perfect.

[GRLMGC]

1. Yes

This site is predominantly Democratic hence the term "Democratic Underground". Truly, I'm getting annoyed w/ GD. Everyone is irrational and it's irritating. I totally agree w/ you. This forum seems to be the only safe haven.

[JohnKleeb]

14. hey the lounge is safe too guys

ha but I see your point, I am sick of us eating our own, it really disturbs me deeply that so many are willing to pounce on our own democrats like this and treat them so terribly almost as if they were the opposition party.

[LittleClarkie]

2. Who made the point

that alot of them are either Greens or very close to it who only joined the campaign to beat Bush. In some ways when they say "Move more to the right (by which they often mean center) and I'm leaving" I think they're already gone.

It may be wrong of me, but when someone delivers an ultimatum like that, my first reaction is "Okay, bye."

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. They ask where Kerry is, when we've had several Kerry sightings in the last month. They want to know why his isn't coming out with a dramatic announcement (which to me would only serve as grandstanding), but won't accept any explanation that perhaps it's better this way, as a dramatic announcement would make things worse, not better. I've run into a few who actively hate Kerry who don't see why that hate meant they were never going to convince anyone to vote for him against Bush.

And I still don't understand the "used goods" mentality. Rushing from candidate to candidate looking for the "electable" one makes us look like we indeed do not have a clear idea of what we are about as a political party, and is self-defeating to boot. We go through candidates like potato chips around here.

Sigh. Yeah, I'm sick of it too. Can you tell?

[GRLMGC]

3. Totally

I've often stopped myself from saying "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out". I don't like people like that. People who get pissy when they don't get their own way even if they're being irrational. Some people lack common sense and I think that's why it's so frustrating.

[LittleClarkie]

5. Irrational is the word

There's a disconnect with reality that reminds me of some freepers.

Right after we're told Kerry is paying for a recount or helping with a lawsuit, someone STILL posts something like:

"He should fight."

"How?" I'd like to ask.

"He should do SOMETHING!" they'd reply.

"What should he do?"

"He should fight!"

"HOW?"

"Gore fought."

"Gore lost."

"Kerry's a coward if he doesn't fight."

"He is fighting. Just not in the way you want."

"He should DO something."

Arraaagh. (biff!)

What do these people WANT?!

[GRLMGC]

6. Nothing pleases them

They're the ones who are going to have to live life unhappily because nothing can please them.

[paulk]

24. they're like the little kid

who threatens to hold his breath until he turns blue...

[paulk]

25. it is a brick wall

if you'd been here during the primary season, you'd recognize the names - it's mostly always the same people.

They keep bringing up the same stuff , over and over. It seems there's usually some reasonable Kerry person willing to step up and make an argument - you've been doing a good job of it lately :)

I know I went through a phase where I tried to be reasonable - spent a long time researching and explaining positions - I just don't have the energy anymore...

My ignore list has been growing by leaps and bounds lately - it's the only way I can stay here at DU.

[GRLMGC]

29. Mine too n/t

[LittleClarkie]

31. I went and peeked when we could access the archives

I recognize some names. Yes they are repetitive cusses aren't they.

Thanks by the way. I sometimes think I'm getting redundant with my posts. Glad to hear I'm holding my end up. I've certainly progressed from the "Fuck you" that came out of me righ after the election when someone said the swiftees were right and Kerry was a coward.

I wonder how long it will take some people to get over old battles. Some perhaps never. We'll lose a few people in the next 4 years I reckon.

But I plan on gaining a few too.

[NamVetsWeeLass]

4. But, Kleeb, I'm a witch, I have been told I do eat my Kids...

Wait, Let's ask the Princess, who is watching the FoodNetwork right now.....OR we could ask the Nine year old, He would tell you too... Heh

[JohnKleeb]

16. haha thanks

[seito]

7. They have to blame someone

I think many actually believe that if John Kerry had shouted fraud from the rooftops, we would have a Ukrainian style revolution.

I don't even go to GD anymore. It is bad enough in the election results forum.

[New Earth]

8. you guys need to get away from General Discussion

and come to Election 2004 Results and Discusion :D

lots of Kerry believers in there....and you all must see the thread 'I BELIEVE' if you havent' seen it already.

[LittleClarkie]

9. Thanks dear

I thought we were losing you to the Pod people for a minute there last week. I'm glad you're back.

[New Earth]

10. what?????????????

losing me how? what was i doing to make you think that? :(

[LittleClarkie]

11. Maybe I was wrong

There was a post from you that said you were starting to lose hope just before Kerry came out in support of the Glib lawsuit. I thought we were starting to lose you as a Kerry supporter, if he hadn't done something soon you were outta here.

Did I read too much into all the high emotions we were experiencing last week.

(what a rollercoaster this election has been anyway. All summer long and even now.)

[New Earth]

12. i wan't giving up on him hostilly (is that a word?)

i was just feeling down. no hostility, just worried that day :)

if he doesn't get involved more within the next week or so i might be a little disappointed tho :(

To be honest, all the pics, the video, and the clip of him the other night on (CNN? - i think it was a clip of him arrving in New Hampshire) he still looks like a President to me. Looks like he knows it too.

[LittleClarkie]

13. He will always look like a President to me

It's hard even looking at pictures of him sometimes.

[JohnKleeb]

15. thats good to know faye

I don't like what I see as fair weatherism of many people, people who diss Kerry like mad now, who are like, he was only an ABB choice, I dont know anyone who actually liked him, blah blah, that really gets to me because obviously I not only like John Kerry but I think he was the total opposite of what they say about him. Pretty petty how some people can be. I hate it so much, we shouldnt be eating our own. I am glad you guys agree, I am sick of Reid getting shit too, he says he wont accept Thomas as chief justice and is actualy against Scalia being that, and they act like he's so terrible.

[vinessa4freedom]

17. Hey JohnKleeb

I know what you all mean. I haven't even been registered as a Dem that long (I was a "no party") but have always been aligned with Dem views for the most part. I don't care what party you belong to, if you post at a place called Democratic Underground, you should probably have a fair idea of where you are.

People are frustrated and have a right to be, but saying "I demand action now-He will handle it my way. They will handle it this way" sounds a helluva lot like W having one of his Iwantpower temper tantrums. I don't go there anymore. I'm in here most of the time, and I drop in on New York, the Vegetarians, and a couple of other groups. Once in a while something cool catches my attention in the lounge, but for the most part, this group is the only one that doesn't make me feel bad or angry when I read and post. There's enough in life to get freaked about. I come here to share ideas and get support. I think people who piss and moan that the Democrats are not doing anything for them can kiss our collective ass.

[LittleClarkie]

19. I just had a John Kennedy moment

It was your "piss and moan that the Democrats are not doing anything for them."

Into my head popped: "Ask not what your Dem Party can do for you; as what you can do for your Dem Party."

[vinessa4freedom]

21. LOL

JFK was a heck of a lot more eloquent than I am at saying it.

[angrydemocrat]

18. I have been staying away.....

from the other forums alot more lately. I will still break and go a little but I'm not there long. After a few threads of people whining and eating there own it is time to get the hell out. I am so sick of it and I have got to the point when they start this shit they are voting green or Kerry will never get my vote again I just tell them oh well with voters like you who needs repukes. Hell I sick of their whiny asses. Hell these people think they own the damn party and everyone has to think like them. Hell they sounding more and more like little chimpee's everyday.

Kerry On! :hi:

[seito]

20. No fair weather support here

There is something special about John Kerry. I feel it when I see him, when I hear him, when I read stories about him etc. I can not explain it. I feel a very strong and loyal bond with him. I know that he is the right person at the right place at the right time to save this nation.

I really hope to see more of him in the next week, but I will support him regardless of what happens. Even if the unthinkable happens and * remains in office, I am glad to have Senator Kerry on my side. He will fight for us, and he will rally our collective strength.

[WildEyedLiberal]

22. I agree completely

There's something about him that just gets me. I'm so glad we have this forum; it's nice to have a haven from the negativity and delusory rantings of GD. I'm not about to abandon my faith in John Kerry, regardless of what comes to pass in the next four years. Someone a while ago hit it on the head - while we discourage the idea of loyalty oaths in a free society (a la Bush), that does not mean that the concept of loyalty is undemocratic. John Kerry has earned my pledge of loyalty, and I plan to honor that commitment I made to him. I promised him I would have his back, and that promise stands. Perhaps those whose support is skin deep and who think nothing of betraying a good man deserve the title of Judas, for that's what they are, in my book.

[rockymountaindem]

23. But... but... Harry Reid is AWFUL!!!!

GAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!

Anyone who disagrees with me is either an idiot or a freeper!!!!!!

Tell me Kleeb, and be brutally honest, did I capture the mood correctly?

:silly:

[JohnKleeb]

34. you done good

[paulk]

26. I'm so sick of it -

I'm just damn glad that DU isn't a reflection of the real world.

[New Earth]

27. you guys must hang out in other forums

i spend 97% of my time in the election discussion forum. tons of kerry supporters over there. 2.9% spent here, and the remaining spent browing at the other forums....

maybe some of you just need to get away from GD/GD Politics, etc....

come hang out in the 'conspiracy theory' forum and you might feel a little better, and actually laugh at the real freepers trying to bring everyone down.

[paulk]

33. I will take your advice

don't know if I can handle the conspiracy forum, though. That place makes me angry. Too much :crazy: :tinfoilhat:

[JohnKleeb]

35. me too

I just wish we could realize and respect our differences. BTW guys I am glad you made me feel not alone.

[Withywindle]

28. hate the bashing, love the bashers?

....nah, can't do it.

I can't believe the arrogance of some of these people! "Nobody really liked Kerry, he was just ABB"? Excuse me? You talked to all 56 million? They authorized you to speak for them?" Missed that memo.

They don't seem to understand that there are different roles for different people at different times. The Left needs to work on ALL levels. We need grandstanders, street marchers, mesmerizing speechifiers, certainly. We need activists and spanner-throwers. We also need reasonable-looking spokespeople (to play a good cop/bad cop game with the wild-eyed fanatics. :)) Senators, lawyers, and canny strategizers to do the damn investigating and paperwork. (Yes, we also need well-connected suits to raise money, for that matter.) We need neighborhood organizers who will never be on TV (not even C-SPAN at 3 AM) even more. I'm sorry if it's not all as much fun to watch as the street-radical stuff. But we need it all. It's really pretty amazing how many of those different hats Kerry has successfully worn over his life. Why would I turn my back on a man with a record like that? It just doesn't make sense! Not even emotional, irrational sense!

[LittleClarkie]

30. Well put

I just don't understand why folks assume that everything Kerry does and everything he says is motivated by ambition, even way back in 71, when he was the reasonable-looking spokesperson whom many assumed was a publicity hound. It seems he is never taken at face value. Never. He's the empty suit, the establishment, the warmongering Republican-lite Massachusetts liberal. In general, when someone has the guts to put themselves out there like he has, they invariably will have their share of naysayers. Comes with the territory I guess.

I think it's his demeanor in part. You have to watch him for a while to see him thaw in front of someone. You have to do a bit of research to find out what he's all done in his life that's praiseworthy. I'd say several on the left spent as much time doing that as several on the right did.

It's just disheartening to hear the naysayers and the freepers agreeing about him. And they wonder why that wouldn't affect how many votes he got. Even a greedball like Donald Trump can tell you that you can't sell a product you don't believe in. Why do I want what you are selling. If you can't tell me that, I ain't buyin'.

But you are right. There is a contingent who expects everyone to be a street radical. If you aren't beating your chest and leading the fight, if you aren't visible as all hell, you aren't doing a thing. If I can't see you, you aren't there.

One person tonight said that BCCI and Iran/Contra don't matter because they are ancient history. Geez, how much have YOU changed in 15 years. I know I haven't changed that much, certainly not a 180 at least.

I'm just going to have to accept that a certain contingent just isn't going to "get it." All I know is that you don't turn your back on someone because they lost. We don't do that with our sports teams. Why would we then do it to those who have infinitely more important and powerful roles to play. As you say, it just doesn't make sense. I love and respect the man. Why would that suddenly change in a day.

[WildEyedLiberal]

32. Well, 15 years ago I was 5, so I've changed quite a bit actually ;)

LOL, anyway.

I agree. (It's 4 am, so that's as coherent as I can manage right now.)

G'nite all, see you in the morning.


Don't know what I'd do without all you fellow Kerryites; you guys keep me sane.
:grouphug:

[JohnKleeb]

36. you mean kerrybots :D

teasing.

[Withywindle]

38. Thanks!

And...


One person tonight said that BCCI and Iran/Contra don't matter because they are ancient history.

:wtf:

Damn, is this Short Attention Span Theater? No wonder there's gotta be a brand new Pres candidate every five minutes for some of these people!

[JohnKleeb]

39. hah and this coming from the we must oppose the republicans on everything

crowd. BCCI and Iran-Contra yes happened in the 80's but are they actually saying its not a big deal that Kerry uncovered that. Are people really that ignorant.

[JohnKleeb]

37. I'd like to thank everyone who posted here

I just hate it when I see calls of purge them from so called progressives, I don't believe in purging, Stalin was a purger, Hitler too, and Trent Lott and the republican leadership too, now I am not saying they are all peas in a pod but purging is anti against everything a progressive believes in. A progressive believes in respecting differing viewpoints, they don't have to agree with it but respecting it is a good thing to do. I hate that everything bad that our party does is blamed on the DLC, for everyone's information, none of our recent senate leaders including Tom Daschle and now Harry Reid have been in the DLC nor have recent house leaders like Dick Gephardt and Nancy Pelosi, in fact the latter is actually a member of Dennis Kucinich and Barbara Lee's Progressive Caucus. Our party ain't perfect but we got a lot of good people with good goals for the party. Calling someone a DINO just because they're not liberal or progressive on one issue is wrong. We know why Jim Jeffords defected from the republican party, its because the republicans in the senate did not respect his views, now I am not calling on us to accept Zell because he actually endorsed Bush but we can and realize we got something in common with more conservative democrats. We also got to realize, it will be a tough challenge to stop Bush's appointments, just because the republicans get them passed will not because the Dems were weak, it will because the republican majority in the senate came through. I will continue to defend Democrats who I feel are wrongfully attacked because people see things in black and white too much. Thanks guys, I really am getting tired of it, I dont wanna lecture but I love the Democratic Party, I am not a member because they're only ones who can beat the republicans, I am a Democrat because my great grandfathers came to this country poor and hungry, and FDR helped them out, this is a party who stands for what is ultimately good for hte people and has a history of it. I wish they were more progressive too but they're even close to the republicans. Sorry again for ranting like a madman.

[seito]

40. JohnKleeb

You are such an inspiration. You are knowledgeable and you have well thought out positions. Unfortunately, many around here are not so knowledgeable and much less mature.

Thanks for the rant

[JohnKleeb]

41. thanks I really do try

I think everyone has good intentions but there has to be a way in between the move to the centre way and the pure way.

[GRLMGC]

42. Yeah, I think I'm gonna stick to this forum

Everyone's gone crazy. Nobody ever stops to think things clearly on GD. They jump the gun and start throwing out stupid accusations. The reason this party is in such trouble is because of backbiting behavior like the one displayed at GD. So, if they leave the party, perhaps we'll have a better atmosphere where we can discuss things clearly and calmly. Wow, I must sound like a total bitch but that's exactly how I feel.

[WildEyedLiberal]

43. I 100% agree

They're left wingnuts, a lot of them... and they demonize anyone who isn't. Everytime they "threaten" to leave the Democratic party, I am tempted to say, "allright, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out." (My apologies if someone already made that joke.)

BTW, Is your avatar Jigglypuff?

ON EDIT: Ha ha, you're the one who made that joke... LOL, don't mind me stealing your righteous thunder.

[GRLMGC]

44. Yeah!

I love Jigglypuff. He doesn't take crap from anyone, haha.

[JohnKleeb]

45. Jigglypuff is a dude?

[GRLMGC]

49. I'm not sure

It'd be funny, though.

[JohnKleeb]

54. That high pitched voice always made me think it was a chick

maybe it was a hermo.

[GRLMGC]

56. could be

you never know.

[JohnKleeb]

59. ha

yep

[WildEyedLiberal]

47. But he sucks on Super Smash Bros.

Kirby is a much cooler round pink creature, IMHO. :D

[GRLMGC]

48. No way!

He has the move that you have to master, admittedly, when you just spin and spin and can knock anyone off the screen if you time it correctly. He's badass.

[WildEyedLiberal]

51. LOL I love how OT this is

I'll still take Kirby for his overall versatility. Plus, he makes the most adorable little squeaky noises while kicking ass. Have you played Super Smash Bros. for N64 or Gamecube?

(Fox is badass too.)

[GRLMGC]

52. Gamecube

I'm not much of a gamer but I always play it at my friend's house.

[JohnKleeb]

53. ha you girls don't play the real games

Games like GTA, Madden, Metal Gear Solid, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, Resident Evil are where its at. :silly: I am kididng y'all.

[GRLMGC]

55. I have infinite love for GTA

I play it at my friend's house too. Nice way to get out my aggression.

[WildEyedLiberal]

57. Oh but you don't know

Half Life is my all time favorite game - the Resident Evil series is a close second.

I have RE, RE2, and RE3 for PS1, and then they had to go and make them all pretty for Gamecube, which I don't own :mad: If they don't port RE4 over to PS2, I may have to cave in and buy a Gamecube.

Half Life is still the best ever. I bought Half Life 2, but I bought the collector's edition which requires a DVD-Rom drive that I don't have :mad: so I have to go trade it in for the regular.

I have Medal of Honor Allied Assault for PC, too, it's pretty cool. Isn't there supposed to be a really good Vietnam game coming out now too?

Hah, bet you didn't think a girl played shooters. :P

[JohnKleeb]

58. hah you got great taste for a gal

I hear Half Life II is excellent, though I am more in to WWII era shooters, something about it that makes me love it. Sucks you dont have DVD rom, my CD nor my DVD rom works right now and neither does my sound. I am pissed that RE isnt on PS2 too gah. I bought Battlefield Vietnam for PC, is that what youre talking about? I havent been able to play it yet because my CD-DVD rom and sound have been gone ever since I got it, we're calling dell tonight though. BTW you got great taste in games.

[WildEyedLiberal]

63. Thanks!

No, Battlefield Vietnam is an online multiplayer game, and I'm not a huge fan of those, although it does look cool. There's been a bunch of Vietnam games come out recently - I think Men of Valor may be the one I'm thinking of, but there's also Conflict: Vietnam and some others. Oh my God, have you heard of the game KumaWar? It's an online war game based off of real recent battles - like you can play missions based off real ones in Iraq, etc. They made a mission for that game recreating John Kerry's Silver Star mission, in which you get to play as him. That's mildly disturbing, if you ask me... I wonder if he knows that some keyboard soldier can recreate his Vietnam experience from their desktop.

[JohnKleeb]

64. I wnated to play the Kerry one but it came out after I lost my sound

Yeah you really do got great taste. No Ive never played KumaWar. I like WWII as I said.

[WildEyedLiberal]

65. So what's your favorite WWII game?

I have MoH:AA, like I said... I've heard Call of Duty is good, too. I also have RTCW and it was a decent shooter, but whne I want to play a WWII game, I want realism, not zombies. That's what HL and RE are for :) So what's your favorite WWII shooter?

BTW there was a really good WWII flight sim several years ago I was addicted to, don't remember the name now, and I don't have a joystick anymore, but it was a lot of fun... I think it was Combat Flight Simulator Europe or something. Cool game.

[JohnKleeb]

66. Thats really tough

either Call of Duty or Medal of Honor because of the realism, Call of Duty has a slight edge because youre always in a team and you do more realistic missions.

[paulk]

60. Girls play shooters!

My wife and I play Halo and now Halo 2 all the time - and - I'm embarrassed to admit - she's better than me....

[JohnKleeb]

61. ha cool

[JohnKleeb]

46. this is good but some of you guys should go in the lounge

Its so much fun.

[New Earth]

50. or election 2004

if you can handle the rollercoaster ride.

[JohnKleeb]

62. My observations are that a lot of it is hyperbole

I caught someone calling Gephardt a right wing Democrat the other night because of one vote and the Rose Garden thingie which I don't like but I admire Gephardt's economic populism, so I got the guy to admit that what he said was far strenched. Ive also found that our congressional leadership isn't DLC at all, Gephardt was a non DLC member as is current house dem leader Pelosi, shes even a progressive caucus member and Daschle love him or hate him wasnt either neither is Reid.

[GRLMGC]

67. Truth

just gets in the way of a good rant. Seriously though, it seems like a lot of people just jump to conclusions based on very little information. And if someone disagrees w/ a position, the they're automatically made "public enemy number 1". It's so irritating.

[JohnKleeb]

68. Yeah

I know right.