Ahmadijad is at it again

[JohnKleeb]

http://today.reuters.com/Errors/Error.aspx?lastPage=%2fnews%2fnewsarticle.aspx&lastQuery=type%3dworldNews%26storyid%3d2006-05-28T152033Z_01_L28632352_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAN-AHMADINEJAD-HOLOCAUST.xml%26src%3drss%26rpc%3d22&ip=7&text=System.NullReferenceException%3a+Object+reference+not+set+to+an+instance+of+an+object.%0d%0a+++at+ReutersWeb.News.ArticleNews.GetStory()%0d%0a+++at+ReutersWeb.News.ArticleNews.Page_Load(Object+sender%2c+EventArgs+e)%0d%0a+++at+System.Web.UI.Control.OnLoad(EventArgs+e)%0d%0a+++at+System.Web.UI.Control.LoadRecursive()%0d%0a+++at+System.Web.UI.Page.ProcessRequestMain()
He's now telling Germansa that they shouldn't feel any guilt about the holocaus. Meanwhile the Pope has been trying to continue to try to fix the damage done by the indifference of the Vatican during the war but he's getting shit on. I have to tell you guys as a German-American and someone who was born 42 years and 2 months after V-E Day I feel shame for hte Holocaust. I think all nations should, Germany and their allies during the war especially but our country and other ones were wrong to refuse Jewish refugees in to this country. Sad really that the man trying to mend the hate gets more hatred from the actual hate mongrel. I am thinking about only posting here for now in. Sorry, just frustrated, I always get a little upset when on threads regarding the Catholic Church because people think it's the most evil organization out there.

[beachmom]

1. I'm a recovering Catholic!!

That's great that Benedict has gone to Auschwitz to say a prayer and make amends, but I have to admit that I truly despise the man. Here's why:

Don't allow Kerry to take Communion, Vatican chief tells US Catholic bishops
By Julian Coman in Washington
(Filed: 11/07/2004)

American Catholic bishops are trying to defy secret advice from Rome that Communion should not be given to John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate.

The advice is contained in an explosive memo - clearly directed at Sen Kerry - by Cardinal Ratzinger, the Pope's doctrinal advisor, who is head of the powerful Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - the institutional heir to the Inquisition.

The memo was sent to the US Catholic Bishops' conference last month. With formidable clarity and force, it states that pro-abortion Catholic politicians should be warned by priests that they are not eligible for Communion. If the politician then "shows an obstinate persistence in grave sin", writes Cardinal Ratzinger, he or she should be turned away at the altar rail. Mr Kerry has consistently voted in favour of maintaining abortion rights during his 30-year senatorial career.

The tone and content of Cardinal Ratzinger's memo, which was leaked to an Italian magazine last week, leave little room for misunderstanding. Some passages appear to have been drafted specifically with Sen Kerry in mind.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/11/wkerry11.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/11/ixworld.html

Of course, there was no similar plea about Republican Catholics who supported the Iraq War or the death penalty, also sins. Sorry, Ratzi (my derogative name for him) may as well have been a paid member of the Bush campaign. This was a BIG deal for two areas: Hispanic voters and Ohio, which has a huge Catholic population. * won the white Catholic vote and did reasonably well with the Hispanic vote, so we're talking the difference between Kerry winning or losing the election. I even heard of Catholics who voted for Kerry, and then went to confession to admit their "sin". This whole episode was also VERY painful to Kerry, who has found much solace in the Church over the years (and I think the roots of his liberal world view and desire to end the Vietnam War).

Other things I can't stand about Benedict:

won't allow birth control even condoms to prevent AIDS (he's now "studying" this to possibly allow condom use between a married couple if one is infected, how nice)

being part of the cover up of the priest sex abuse scandal

blaming homosexuality for the sex scandal, when the most elementary idiot knows that pedophilia is not related to sexual orientation. He is now in the middle of purging gays from the priesthood (who are celebate). So they would have to lie to stay in.

not allowing any voices of dissent among lay Catholics, stamping out dissent from all theology schools and Catholic publications.

in his defense, he's quite fashionable!! But really, it's pretty elementary that a German pope should go to Auschwitz and repent.

My husband is German and his family did not resist the Nazis (there was very little resistance); his grandfathers were in the Wehrmacht. When I first started dating him, I have to admit that I interrogated him to make sure there were no SS in his family; there were not. The shame will always mark the German people, but if you noticed, they didn't participate in the Iraq War, seeing an immoral and unjust war immediately. Not just the government but the people, too (90% against the Iraq War). I like that about them, that they have learned their lessons well, and really want to make the world a better place.

[JohnKleeb]

2. I dislike him too

However, there is some good news in regards to Catholic pro choice politicans and communion. Bishop Donald Wuerl of the Pittsburgh archdiocese is the successor to Theodore Cardinal McCarrick who was did not support denying pro choice politicans communion. Here's how this relatesa to our favorite senator. Kerry it was known got communion while on the campaign trail in the Pittsburgh area. The priest who gave him the communion consulted with Wuerl before doing so and he told him he made the right decision to give Kerry communion. I am of German decent myself so I feel so shame for it honestly, it sounds silly since my family came to the states years ago and I had non-German relatives on my mom's side who actually were resistance fighters. I bet it was painful for Kerry too i must imagine since the church has long been important to him and according to Tour of Duty he one time did consider priesthood, seems like every Catholic guy i read about in books does. I agree that the Germans have learned their lesson well too.

[beachmom]

3. Oh, Kleebster -- Ratzi's speech wasn't that great

Here is a link to his speech in full in English:

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=89922

And here is Andrew Sullivan's smackdown of the pontif for which I most shamelessly agree with (sorry, but it's how I feel):

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/05/benedict_at_aus.html

I was unimpressed by his speech. It was a function of resilient denial - denial that the German people had en masse backed Nazism long after its true nature had become known; and denial of the criminal silence and acquiescence of the Vatican hierarchy during that period of time. Money quote about the Germans:

"It is a duty before the truth and the just due of all who suffered here, a duty before God, for me to come here as the successor of Pope John Paul II and as a son of the German people -- a son of that people over which a ring of criminals rose to power by false promises of future greatness and the recovery of the nation's honor, prominence and prosperity, but also through terror and intimidation, with the result that our people was used and abused as an instrument of their thirst for destruction and power..."

The Germans abused by the Nazis?? They created, empowered and were the Nazis. Then this:

"Constantly the question comes up: Where was God in those days? Why was he silent? How could he permit this endless slaughter, this triumph of evil?"

How about a simpler and more accountable question: where was the Church hierarchy? Where was the Pope? That is neither rhetorical nor unanswerable. And where is the expiation of the original sin of Christianity - anti-Semitism - that played a part in preparing the way for Nazism? Why was Benedict silent? Even today?

Now Brits like Sully do tend to be overly anti-German. You know, Hitler only got 44% of the vote, so obviously not everyone was that thrilled with him even in the '30s. And there are huge arguments among historians about how much blame to assign to Hitler vs. ordinary Germans (I have read all of those books). But that's beside the point. This Pope gave a speech that wasn't even as good as German politicians. That's really pathetic. In fact, the first statement made about the Holocaust by Chancellor Adenauer was WRITTEN BY the Israelis (hey, he wanted to get it right so he double checked it with them). What was lacking from the Pope's speech was humility -- the willingness to speak the truth, at least of the FAILURE of the German people to FIGHT BACK against the evil being perpetrated in their name and the same with the Catholic Church (the Protestants were better, and many were killed rebelling against the Nazis). You know, I had a bad feeling as soon as I heard this guy was named the pope, and found out he was in the Hitler Youth. True, everyone had to go in the Hitler Youth, but a truly moral person would have passed on it. They wouldn't have gone along just to get along. If not of Ratzinger himself, it shows a lack of character of his parent's who didn't see anything wrong sending their son to be indoctrinated. And, it's all a real shame, because there are so many good German people out there, and it's just heartbreaking that the #1 German in the world has to be this guy, who is SO NOT infallible, such a flawed human being. I'm glad I left the Church.

[JohnKleeb]

4. Fair enough but he should get less hatred than Ahmadijad

and people who criticize him for his Hitler youth service should equally criticize Robert Byrd since after all Byrd was not only a klansman but a klan recruiter and was older than Ratzinger. I am critical of the church being silent on the Holocaust but everyone who was silent deserves criticism. I just think that people should be more critical of a guy like Ahmadijad who actually denies this happened actually gets defended by some people. The reason why I was upset by the way is that so many on DU are so obessed with their hatred of all things religious and are too pigheaded to admit that there were people in the churches who did stand up. We can't blame the church for the Holocaust happen, no we should blame the indifference of people.

[beachmom]

5. Indifference of people -- that is so right

I'm with you that Ahmadinijad is a very, very bad person, and it just totally sucks that he was elected. But I think the reason why people are harsher to the pope is that many of them are disgruntled Catholics (myself included) who were told throughout childhood and adulthood that we were sinners and no good. When you finally stand up to that and release yourself from that verbal abuse from "all knowing priests", you still remain extremely angry at the Church for doing that. Whereas, since most DU folks are not Muslims or Iranian, they do not have a personal bad experience to really relate to the Iranian president or the mullahs. I bet you there are liberal Persians who go after the Mullahs with the same fervor and resentment as liberal Catholics do against the pope. Anyway, I'm not trying to annoy any Catholics on this board who are still happy with the Church. Sometimes it's a matter of having a really good priest at your parish or following family tradition and rituals. For me, I can't be part of a Church for which I disagree with basic ideas like "sin", and how they think abortion is worse than the Iraq War.

[beachmom]

6. Back to Ahmadinejad -- VERY chilling article from Spiegel

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660-2,00.html

SPIEGEL: The Palestinians have the right to their own state, but in our view the Israelis naturally have the same right.

Ahmadinejad: Where did the Israelis come from?

SPIEGEL: Well, if we tried to work out where people have come from, the Europeans would have to return to east Africa where all humans originated.

Ahmadinejad: We're not talking about the Europeans; we're talking about the Palestinians. The Palestinians were there, in Palestine. Now 5 million of them have become refugees. Don't they have a right to live?

SPIEGEL: Mr. President, doesn't there come a time when one should accept that the world is the way it is and that we must accept the status quo? The war against Iraq has put Iran in a favorable position. The United States has suffered a de facto defeat in Iraq. Isn't it now time for Iran to become a constructive power of peace in the Middle East? Which would mean giving up its nuclear plans and inflammatory talk?

Ahmadinejad: I'm wondering why you're adopting and fanatically defending the stance of the European politicians. You're a magazine, not a government. Saying that we should accept the world as it is would mean that the winners of World War II would remain the victorious powers for another 1,000 years and that the German people would be humiliated for another 1,000 years. Do you think that is the correct logic?

SPIEGEL: No, that's not the right logic, nor is it true. The Germans have played a modest, but important role in post-war developments. They do not feel as though they have been humiliated and dishonored since 1945. We are too self-confident for that. But today we want to talk about Iran's current mission.

This motherf***er wouldn't back down, and refuses to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. Then he appeals to a German magazine that THEY should also feel humiliated and should no longer accept the Allies' victory in WWII. I like Spiegel's answer. This guy is sick. Totally sick.

[JohnKleeb]

7. It is sick

I become more of an evil Zionist :sarcasm: by the day. The only reason why I hear he got elected in the first place is that all the reformist candidates were knocked off the ballot by the high ranking clerics. You know that a woman can't run for president there though some often do in futile runs for the presidency. If Iran becomes a true seculdar democracy which I feel it can because of all the young people who like our country and our culture than that would be a step in the right direction.