Damnit!!!!!

[NamVetsWeeLass]

Ok I sit here reading over the JK Forum, I even went and looked at his site. I am not over November, I am not over the stupidity in this country and I am not over the Body count of this fucking war. I thought I was OK, I thought I was starting to equalize again, after facing terrible prospects here and in the world for another 4 years, But I'm not. Does this mean I am bashing John? Hell no. This means I don't think I will ever be normal again. (not that I was some shining example of Normalcy before, mind you....) I feel like someone has repeatedly kicked me in the gut and has left me gasping for air. With all the Glib ** Supporters out there, and the economy sucking as bad as it does, I find myself wanting to crawl under a rock. I am struggling with Giftmas for the little one, I am busting my ass so hse can have at least a few small gifts to open. John Kerry should have won this election, and I still think he really did. He is MY PRESIDENT. Thank you for doing things in Ohio, Sir. We so desperately need you.

[ginnyinWI]

1. you are not alone

I have good days, then bad days. Days when I think everything will sort itself out, and days of despair. Not an unusual reaction to the shock of the election. We had such high hopes and now we aren't sure what's going to happen. We can't get over it while we are in "limbo". So yeah, up one day, down the next.

What I am sure of is this: Bush has swung about as far right as America can stand, and if he enters a second term, it's gonna be a failure for him. He'll be much weaker without the support of those he had in his first term. Condi as Sec. of State?? Oh come on, now! What a joke. People in Washington will undermine them--it's already beginning.

So what I'm getting at, I guess, is that things will get better, JK as president or not. Better with him in the WH, of course!!!

[seito]

2. Our best days are yet to come

It is going to be a long tough road, but the BFEE is going down. I just hope it is sooner (Before Jan 20) rather than later. Little Chimpy and his Man Date and the Faux Neocon Christian Right with their "Moral Values" and "Patriotism" will be exposed for what they are.

Regardless of the outcome, I do not expect that John Kerry will wander far from the spotlight. He is the one with the mandate and he knows it. Soon the rest of America will know it. This county is going to turn on the little boy king quicker than you can say "Draft".

The truth will come out, and we will probably have to be the media, but it will come out. Through their arrogance they have crossed the line and have awoken the sleeping giant.

[WildEyedLiberal]

4. Amen! I agree 100% However, on a side note...

... since you mentioned Bush's Man Date:





HERE HE IS!

Or should I say HERE THEY ARE? Looks like he's getting serviced on both ends, dunnit?

[seito]

6. All right, now you did it

I am busting a gut all over again...

[JohnKleeb]

12. nah baldy is just waiting his turn

BTW though that picture is profoundly disturbing, it is also hilarious.

[angrydemocrat]

3. I Know How You Feel

I don't think any of us have gotten over this election yet. I know I haven't I refuse to give up the fight! John Kerry can't come out and say he wants us to keep fighting but I feel he has throwed plenty of hints especially the video. I think Kerry wants us to help him in this fight against these evil bastards that is trying to take over our country! John Kerry is a fighter and don't never let anyone tell you any different. He will be their for us when no one else will!

As far as all these Glibs I ignore the hell out of them most of the time. Although I do have my days where I have heard enough and and then I tell their asses off. Because I can fight to! Most of these people are not true glibs they are whiny democrats licking their wounds. Instead of fighting for what is right they find it easier to blame others. They also scream they are changing parties when in fact if you took a list of names of who is screaming now and wait till it is time for the next election you would in fact see they were pissin in the wind. They will be supporting democrats you don't believe me do what I said and take notes who screams and who actually does it when the time comes.

I often wonder if Kerry ever looks at these forums to see what his supporters are up to and what they are saying. If he does I hope he comes to this forum and checks up because if he read alot of the trash in the other forums it would be truly embarrassing. These people ought to be ashamed for the garbage they have said about this man. It truly is sad. Like I said some of them are lick their wounds and will come back around but you will still have those who will trash regardless. So when things start to get to you the best thing to do I have found is come to this Forum and stay. It gets lonely at times because all of them haven't gotten to the point they stay here all the time.

Eventually we will have this forum built up and the Kerry supporters will all come in here and stay and only stroll out to the general discussion for the latest news and back. But we have to get enough members to join in here and get it built up first. I think all of us would be alot better off if we started staying in here and only a few at a time go out to get the latest news and links and we would all be happier. Because naysayers can be as bad as the freepers. They will get on your nerves and make your blood boil the same. We all need to get our group forum going full steam. Because you know how we all have fun out in the other forums when we get together on one thread well it could be that way all the time if we all just came in here.

[WildEyedLiberal]

5. Amen

That's why I was so sad when earlier this week this forum had been quiet for a couple days. It was so lonely on DU without all you wonderful people. This is truly an oasis, a haven of sanity surrounded by lots of rabid, irrational ideologues (coughcoughGDcoughcough).

We should call ourselves something, you know? Like the Deaniacs and the Clarkies have their own little nicknames, I think we need one too, because I'd bet anything we're every bit as loyal as they are, if not more so. If anyone can think of anything excessively clever, I'll give you a virtual cookie. Personally, I like Kerrybots, because it would be a classic case of hijacking an insult and turning it into a symbol of pride (kinda like Yankee, originally a derogatory term used by the Brits). But anyone who can come up with better than that is welcome to it.

[ginnyinWI]

7. I'll be here; this group is like an oasis

I'll try to think of names, but it's too late for my brain tonight.

[seito]

8. It can get discouraging fast

if you spend too much time in the "freaky forums" I spend most of my time in the Election Results forum. There are actually a lot of Kerry fans there. It has been crazy there lately, especially yesterday.

I wish there were more posts here, because this truly is a sanctuary. I feel like I can express so much more about what I think and feel here, and it will not be subject to a barrage of ridicule and insults.

As far as strength of support, I have been involved in politics since I was a teen. The first Presidential candidate that I supported was Dukakis. I can say that, without a doubt, I have never believed in any candidate the way I believe in John Kerry.

From the bottom of my heart, I know that he is a good person. His words touch my heart and my soul. I am reading "Tour of Duty" now. As I read, I feel such a bond to him. This is what really struck me. At the time John Kerry was serving in Vietnam he must have felt just like we feel now. Here the nation was plunging head first into a senseless war. Johnson decides not to run for office. His hopes hinge on the nomination and election of Bobby Kennedy. Then out of nowhere he is assassinated.

I was not around to experience that dreadful time in history, but can you imagine how that must have felt, to be in service at that time. It was bad enough to endure the assassination of JFK, but then to lose Bobby, and the hope for any relief from the quagmire of Vietnam.

We just do not learn from history. Here we are again. John Kerry knows this road because he has traveled it before. You can be damned sure he is going to do everything in his power to stop * and his evil empire.

If there is any chance, to pull a victory out of this election, John Kerry will take it. I feel an overwhelming urgency to support him in these efforts. I feel a great loyalty to all of you fellow Kerry supporters. We will make it through this and I know that our best days are yet to come.

[ginnyinWI]

11. seito,

I just finished Tour of Duty a few weeks ago--and it was really inspiring. It also brought me back to the feelings of those days in America.

I was in high school when Bobby Kennedy was killed, and the memory is vivid. He was the one person who seemed to represent the youth of the country. I heard it on my radio while getting ready for school, and was so angry I was stomping my feet as I walked around my room, enough to wake up my parents in the room below. My mom asked me what was the matter, and I said, "They shot Bobby Kennedy!" I also remember a newspaper editorial cartoon that came out later. It showed a young man sitting dejectedly. A second person wanted him to get up and march or vote or something, and he says, "I can't. They shot all of my leaders." That really said it all.

There was a much greater divide then between our generation and our parents' (the "Generation Gap") that was really obvious. Our parents grew up in WWII, but we grew up in the "Fabulous Fifties"--big differences! So to have a political leader like Bobby Kennedy was so important. Instead we got Nixon!

But I'm eight years younger than John Kerry, and of course he would have been much more aware than me or the average person about what was going on. For me, once I realized he had been the leader of the VVAW (I was younger and unaware of it at the time though), I knew this guy's heart was in the right place--because he had the strong convictions then about war and the abuse of governmental power, I felt I could trust him. It was always funny to me when people pointed out his protest years as a weak point--to me it is what convinced me. I also see uncanny similarities between Bush and Nixon, so once again Kerry has a familiar enemy to fight.

[Osamasux]

16. The similarities between Bush and Nixon are not coincidence

there are some of the same people, some they reshuffled under Ford, and others they picked up along the way. Nixon was actually planning to fire Rumsfeld before he resigned. (It's on the tapes.) He didn't get the chance, so now we are stuck with Iraq.

The main difference between Bush and Nixon is that although both are paranoid, delusional criminals, Nixon was actually qualified for the job. Bush does not have anything at all going for him.

[NamVetsWeeLass]

17. welcome to DU

:hi:

[LittleClarkie]

18. And outside of public office, Nixon was actually tolerable

I could have cried (I do that alot) when I read what Nixon said about war, that to stop it we need to take the profit out of it. Sounds like there was a heart in there... somewhere.

Not so with Rummy and Cheney.

I think the current administration would gag even Nixon.

Johnson, on the other hand, would be saying "Wow, nice one."

I wonder how much of the Nixon/Kennedy fraud was Johnson's doing. Texas politician and all, dontcha know.

I've also been wondering how close Nixon/Kennedy was, and how many votes were allegedly frauded. A teeny part of me wonders if this isn't the ghost of Nixon's revenge for 1960.

Oddly enough, Kerry's sort of playing Nixon's part, conceeding and then investigating.

[Osamasux]

19. Nixon's revenge was '72

He had it wrapped up and just kept pushing, so there was no chance that it would be close enough to be stolen. Overcompensating to the point of criminal action. Nixon probably felt somewhat like us on election day '68 and '72. Thought he had it won if all went legitimate, but could not trust anything about the votes anymore. Him after '60, us 40 years later.

I heard Novak, Buchanan and others after this election downplaying irregularities by saying 'Dems fixed the 1960 election and we didn't beef, so just shut up and take it like a man.'

I wish we had pushed 2004 outside the range of being stolen.

You're right, this whole thing really is an odd similarity.

[ginnyinWI]

22. Something Bill Moyers said today--

on NPR. He was press sec. to Johnson, and said how LBJ was actually really torn up about the war in Vietnam. Surprised me, too...at the time we all hated him so much and saw him as a cold-hearted man. I believe Moyers wouldn't lie about it. He said Johnson would be so depressed about it that he would get into bed and just pull the covers over his head. But still he couldn't seem to dig us out of that war. He was certainly no saint!! He had thought Vietnam would be a cake-walk and be over in no time. Sounds like Bush and Iraq, hm.

[LittleClarkie]

25. I remember a Johnson quote

about his true love being social reform, but the whore that was the Vietnam war demanded the time and attention that he would have preferred to give to his first love.

[ginnyinWI]

21. except for--

"Bush does not have anything at all going for him."

Except for one thing: a new-and-improved fraud machine! His daddy started it to win over Dole in the 88 primary, and it just got bigger from then on.

[Osamasux]

30. Agreed.

I meant him personally. The machine is independent of Chimp. He is just the current beneficiary. It is going to be with us for a long, long time, unfortunately.

[seito]

20. ginny

I was born in 1969, so I missed that tragic period in our history.

Sometimes I think it is my lazy ass generation that is to blame for the condition that this country is in. We have been so self-involved that we never bothered to wake up and see what was happening before our eyes.

I go to the protest rallies, and everyone there look 50+. I do not know what is up with that. I do sense a lot of hope in the upcoming generation though. Noting like another war to wake people up.

I am really enjoying "Tour of Duty". It is so inspiring to actually read the letters and diary entries that Kerry made as a young man. He is a man driven by real "Moral Values" The values that hold each life as sacred, the values that protect the weak, the values that question authority when it is abusive.

I also was MOST drawn to Kerry for his activism after the his service in Vietnam. He was the voice of the anti-war movement and probably was instrumental in bringing the soldiers home sooner, rather than later. He helped to save countless lives. I am a veteran, and I know many veterans that feel the same. John Kerry did not dishonor anyone with his actions. In fact, he did the most patriotic thing he could do, he helped bring our troops home. For that I will be forever grateful.

[ginnyinWI]

23. seito

My theories about the 50+ people at rallies:
1) Yes, it is probably partly because many in my generation were interested in politics and activism, and so came out again for this election. We were a generation that felt we were going to create a new, better world (well half of us anyway--the other half were more like *!!)

2) A practical reason: I also saw mainly two age groups out working on the campaign--college age and middle aged+, and I think the reason has a lot to do with the ages in the middle raising kids and establishing careers, etc. That takes a lot of time and energy, and a lot of these people just don't have the time to follow politics. I remember one guy whose door we knocked on just a few days before the election, and he said he still didn't know who he was going to vote for, and still needed to go on the Internet and see what each candidate was going to do to keep his family safe. I was the same way when I was busy raising three kids.
So anyway, the college aged kids went out because they are young, idealistic, enthusiastic and energetic, and us older people went out because our kids are grown now and we have the time to devote to it now, and are really more aware of what is happening to America.

Tour of Duty: yes, his writings were awesome. Especially when you realize he was only,what, 24 or 25 while in Vietnam? Wow. He wrote that stuff while sitting on a Swift Boat in the middle of a jungle river, being bit by mosquitos and everything else?!
I also really enjoyed those first biographical chapters. I thought,hey, I won't feel too sorry for him being denied the election, he already had enough wonderful experiences for a lifetime by the time he was 21! (Just kidding though--I am really sorry--he deserved it so much)

[Withywindle]

27. We were born the same year, Seito...

The year of the moon landing and Woodstock, among other things...and I'm reading "Tour of Duty" now too -- well, I didn't have time before the election!

I have to say, his testimony after Vietnam was a huge factor to me in admiring him, as well as his role in countering Iran-Contra. Although I was a toddler when the war ended, I do have memories of my parents celebrating (and of them telling me that Nixon, our President, was bad. But who could've imagined that someday he would look relatively good). And I owe Sen. Fulbright, who supported Kerry and VVAW, a debt for my very existence (my mother was an international student--using her smarts and whatever she could get to flee the CIA-backed military dictatorship in Brazil.)

I can tell you that the anti-Iraq-war rallies here in Chicago last year, including the one that shut down Lake Shore Drive with 10,000+ at rush hour, were diverse in every way including age. Gen X represented with huge numbers and pride (some in work clothes of every profession, some with young children), as did college-age folks, grayhairs, and everyone in between. Several area high schools had walkouts in solidarity, and the City Council voted 46-1 in favor of an anti-war resolution (even though Daley still had cops beat up protesters...it's in his blood, I guess). I hope that helps.

I honor your service. Thank you.

[seito]

29. Thanks Withywindle

I guess it just bothers me that so many people today are so lazy and uninformed. It seems that much of *'s base comes right out of our age group. In contrast to previous generations, I think we had it pretty good. Now, we are happily raising our own families and most of us have kids too young to be affected by the current war. These people say "If we fight the over there, then we don't have to fight them here at home." Are you kidding me???

They drive around in their SUVs with their Yellow Ribbons and they say God Bless America and Support the Troops. They have no concept of what they means. You support the troops by keeping your word, by NEVER sending them into harms way unless there is no other choice.

Anyway, I am glad to hear that you have had such a diverse group of people willing to stand up and sacrifice just a little. That does give me hope. I do not see all the people that came out to oppose * in this election just slipping away.

I know I am 100 times more determined to fight now than I have ever been in my life. I hope more soldiers that return from this war will have the courage that the VVAW did.

Thank you for your kind words, and your activism. I hope other patriots such do as Sen Fulbright did. I hope the Republicans in congress will open their eyes and see that their own party has been hijacked by extremists. If not, the American people are going to have to stand up and make them see.

[ginnyinWI]

31. Ugh, yes, I still see all those SUVs

at the supermarket, all decked out in yellow ribbons, as though they personally are going to win that war. It makes me sick that so many only think as far as their own self-interests. "Fight them there so we don't have to fight them here--" How can they even think that after 9/11?? And this administration has done so little to prevent another attack.

Well, I'd better stop before I get really heated up! People need to realize that this is a new kind of war. I do agree with Kerry that it is much more effectively fought with diplomacy and intelligence, not with military force. Bush is a child-man playing with his own set of "toy" soldiers. Outrageous.

My two main issues are Bush's War, and the trashing of the environment. I think everyone should define their most important concerns and try to find ways to help. What are all of yours?

[seito]

32. Ginny, I think you should post this as a separate thread

My Major Issues are:

THE WAR - #1

Election fraud

Corporate controlled media

Environment

Education

Health Care

Those are the big ones for me. Right now, my primary focus beyond uncovering what I believe is massive election fraud, will be fighting to get our soldiers taken care of and brought back home as quickly as possible.

[Withywindle]

34. I know what you mean...

...And in some ways, we are a sheltered generation. We're really too young to viscerally remember the real horror of Vietnam and we were too young to understand Watergate at the time.

So much of the worst of the Reagan/Bush I years was sugar-coated, censored, and not covered in the media for squat. It seemed like most people then didn't know and didn't care--because they didn't have to. Some of us thought a lot about how close we were to nuclear obliteration, about the death squads in Central America, about the shameful support of the apartheid regime in South Africa, the AIDS crisis, the huge and shocking spike in homelessness...but not enough. Not enough for the tipping point.

Many woke up a little in the early 90s, finishing school at time when there was no money and no jobs and not much future--but then, the prosperity of the Clinton years seemed to put a lot of people back to sleep again! Ironic, that. Well, not really. Now there's too much of an attitude of "I got mine, to hell with everyone else." Well, do they ever look at how and why they "got theirs"?

But there are signs of a lot of hope right now, I think. Yes, I think there will be a new wave of anti-war veterans speaking out; it's already happening. I think, unfortunately, maybe sometimes things do have to get worse before they get better. I think as evidence that the **admin has been a catastrophe for this country on all levels piles up, there will be new generations of activists coming out of the huge population of "recent wakers."

And I'm gonna want to thank them all, just as I want to thank all of them who went before.

[seito]

35. Most people do not wake up until tragedy touches them personally.

My parents hated Reagan for what he did to the working class and poor. I always had so much respect for my parents because they were pretty well off, not rich mind you, but definitely middle class. My father worked for Lockheed and benefited directly from big defense spending. He always talked about the people he worked with and how they could be so callous with the "I did it on my own, why can't everyone else attitude."

My father always talked about how we do not hear the whole truth from the media and he taught me how to think for myself and not just blindly accept the propaganda. I feel so fortunate to have been raised to care.

You are right about the news, even back then, they never showed us the whole truth, and we never bothered to really look. Even Desert Storm did not awaken the majority of us. The Clinton years did massage us into complacency. Most people were more than eager to reap the benefits of the economic boom and yet readily jumped in with the RW media hit squad as they persecuted the President. So much for the So Called Liberal Media. lol!!!!

So here we are. I have hope for the future because of what I saw this past year. I think we have had enough, and tragedy is starting to hit us personally. I think the young people, the college kids, are going heed their generation's call and lead this charge to WAKE this Nation.

Since this is the John Kerry Forum, I have to add that I do not see him slipping from the foreground. Regardless of the outcome, he will be a force to be reckoned with. I for see that he will play a major roll in organizing our efforts to bring * and his merry band of idiots down from their throne.

[LittleClarkie]

9. I've been calling myself a Kerry Krishna

sounds like he's formed a cult, doesn't it.

[ginnyinWI]

10. how about

Kerrycrats?

KerryKrats?

[angrydemocrat]

13. Excellent!!!

I LOVE IT! I'm a Kerrycrat how bout you?

[ginnyinWI]

14. Yup!

:) :) :) :)

[vinessa4freedom]

15. I'm still here

Hey gang! Andrea I'm with you. JK's saga represents more than his presidency, it represents all of our freedom, that seems to be hanging in the balance. The Patriot act, the war, the spy bill crap, the roe v. wade jeopardy (as every other amendment). He represents more than being a decent human being. He's like our hero that's trying to save the day.

I'm incredibly sorry I haven't been posting all week. I was in the last full week of school, and had 3 papers due and an exam today. I'm still with all of you in spirit. One final next week-then a month off. (This is a lot harder than it was 18 years ago).

By the way, your child has the best gift possible already. A Mom like you. That little person will want for nothing, believe me.

[ginnyinWI]

24. nice to meet you vinessa

yes, John Kerry is still my hero. Nice to have a flame-proof place to say that!
Are you a returning student? Good for you! I also went back to school after 24 years and finished my degree between 1995 and 1999.
It was easier than I'd feared, actually. Lots of life experience helps.

[vinessa4freedom]

28. Hi Ginny

Yes, I'm a returning student. I'm having a great time, but I feel so overwhelmed. I'm there full-time, and I'm a bit too much of a perfectionist for my own good.:)

This is the only forum I even consider looking at when I'm this busy. All of these fellow John Kerry believers make me feel good, and validate my existence when I've had a day immersed in crap. School is pretty liberal, but I've got cousins that have pictures of the 7 top dominionist nazis taped to their fridge. AAAAHHHHH!!! They are "doing the Lord's work" according to my cousins. They think John Kerry is an agent of Satan.

I'm losing my hair in great big chunks.

[ginnyinWI]

33. I think being a perfectionist goes with being a returning

student. I'm really glad I did go back and finish, because it helped me be so much more understanding of the way the world works, and the history classes I took give me added perspective. I suppose that helped me really get interested in politics, besides this election. Now I want to get more books and read about the history of recent presidencies.

I am the only Democrat in my extended family too! I had a huge fight with my dad, which was a total waste of time. He'd send me these terrible articles by email.:-( On the bright side, my husband and three 20-something kids and spouses all voted for Kerry!

Those relative, though,have always voted Repub, and think this is a president with conservative values--Haha! Nothing conservative about trashing the wilderness lands, spending all our money, etc etc!

I try to just feel pity on them for being so gullible, and believing that John Kerry is the "straw man" that the RNC put up this year. I keep thinking, "if only they knew".

[vinessa4freedom]

36. But it's so much easier not to think

I truly believe that people are too lazy to think for themselves. It's just so much easier to be a sheep.

My political activity has been increasing because of school, too. I got involved this year because I had to-things were (are) getting so bad-then I got to know John Kerry better and this year was the first time I actually got involved with a campaign. I had a ball, too. It was great to be out there knocking on doors and talking to people with similar views. Our area has had a ton of layoffs due to outsourcing. Especially Eastman Kodak. They've moved almost everything to China and left Rochester with a whole pile of pollution they have no intention of cleaning up. I've met alot of victims of the outsourcing at school. I have the good fortune to be back in school by choice. These folks didn't have one. Some of them are in school full-time, and working temp jobs trying to support families while they learn an entirely new field. It's sad.

[Der Blaue Engel]

26. I don't have much else to say but "ditto"

But I hear you. Ups and downs. It's a rollercoaster, and I don't feel like anything can ever be "normal" again.

The thing that's pissing me off right now is watching the RW lobbing shit at "liberals who are trying to destroy Christmas." What the eff is their problem?? They have grubbed and bullyed and stolen EVERYTHING, and they want to play this "persecuted minority" game like *we're* doing something to *them*? I just want to scream. It looks more and more like Handmaid's Tale every day.

But I am hanging on to hope. I still believe in John Kerry. :)

Blaue