Some thoughts on hosting a contest in GD

[blueraven95]

Since we were the first to do it, I figured maybe I could post some observations.

First of all, I think it was definitely the right thing to switch to GD from the Lounge. Besides getting much more exposure, I think the contest is taken much more seriously in GD. I'm a bit of a (daily) lurker on DU, but I've always made a point to follow the photography contests and it seems to me that this one was, and I expect future ones will be, greatly appreciated. I got the impression that it gave a cooling down period in the often heated atmosphere ofGD.

I want to point out that we got the vast majority of votes in the first 24 hours of the contest being wrong, and in the finals we had nearly 300 votes in under 48 hours. I would strongly suggest that we do not leave each poll up for longer than 2 days, because I think that any longer can lead to voter fatigue - and we do not want to wear out GD with contests that go on too long. Besides, keeping threads kicked for 2 days is a lot of work. Obviously, it is up to individual contest runners to decide, but in my experience those 48 hours were just right.

I know that one of the ongoing issues with the polls is the way the voting works. In past contests and in this one, it has seemed obvious that seeing the current voting results effects the way people will vote. That is not to say that the photos which won did not deserve to win, just that I think there would be a more pure vote (people would vote based on what they personally like, not based on where the polls stand) if people couldn't see the results first. Since we finally won a national election :party: and the craziness might settle down on DU for a little while (maybe), I was thinking that it might be time to make a suggestion as a group to Skinner about changing the poll system to one that hid the results until after you voted. I think that is something that the group as a whole should decide if we should do - maybe we should take a poll. }(

One the things that bothered me about this contest was that, most of the time, there was little to no discussion about the photographs. Now I know that there wasn't all that much serious discussion in the Lounge either, but it seems to me that maybe there should be. Every single photograph had (has) something to offer on many levels, and it would be neat to see what people who are not photographers are thinking. I believe that the feedback could help us all become better photographers. However, I do not believe that the environment of GD will stimulate the kind of conversation I'm thinking about unless it is jump-started by us. I do not think that the host should be the one to start the conversation, as that could easily lead to allegations of favoritism, but it might be a good idea for members of the photography forum to comment in the GD threads about photos that are not their own, in terms that are more detailed than just "I love that piece" - for example instead of "that piece was haunting" talk about why it was haunting. That would start a "spontaneous" conversation that may lead to interesting insights into each piece. That sort of critical feedback would be invaluable for me at least, and I firmly believe if we start it, people in GD will continue it. What do you think?

I think that is it for now. If I come up with anything else, I will let you know. :-)

[JeffR]

1. Your idea of initiating comments ourselves is a good one

The relative lack of feedback has always struck me as frustrating. The why of how people vote and the what they are voting for would be valuable to us all.

Your point about a concise voting period is well taken, too. 48 hours is an eternity in GD, especially for a post that appears on or overlaps with a Saturday or Sunday.

"Blind" voting would also be great. I believe superconnected is trying to arrange that for the November contest via embedded polls, but it would be nice if DU's software could be configured to handle it in situ.

[regnaD kciN]

2. A few observations...

1) When I used to run contests in the Lounge, I tried to limit them to three days -- any longer, and things would just drag on and on with only a few votes trickling in. I agree that, with the higher visibility of GD, it may only need to run two days. However, I think it's just as important to make sure that the voting period includes a blend of weekdays and weekends. It's been my experience that there is a different "clientele" at DU on weekends than on weekdays, although this might not be as true in GD as it was in the Lounge. When I ran Lounge contests, I tried to run the preliminaries from Thursday to Saturday, and the finals from Sunday to Tuesday, so that there would be two weekdays and one weekend day in each. With a shorter time period, maybe they should be run Friday-Saturday and Sunday-Monday.

2) Getting the DU software modified so that you can't see the poll results before voting would be a great step, and one I've been advocating for a long time. I've also been in favor of larger polls, so that we wouldn't need the preliminary/final split to cut the entries down to a managable ten. However, I wonder if that would fly with those who vote in these polls. It seems to me that there is a certain appeal in the common mind (call it "the Oscar factor") for first cutting a large group down to a select number of "nominees," and then a second step where the winner is selected from that group. I'm not saying it's the fairest way or that it shouldn't be changed if possible, but I'd be interested in seeing if the members of GD liked it as much.

3) About not "jumpstarting" the comments in the polls: I suspect this is, in part, due to the "comments" thread for each contest here in the photo group. I would speculate that the general sentiment is, that since we get to make our comments amongst ourselves before the polls go up, so it would be wrong to comment again in front of the "general public." However, I see no reason why members shouldn't re-post their comments in GD, if it would help to get the discussion going. (Of course, we'd have to be on the honor system to not try to influence the poll by praising our own work in a place where each photo is presented anonymously.)

[babylonsister]

5. Has anyone asked Skinner if we could pin the thread w/pics

to the top of GD for 48 hours, so it wouldn't have to be kicked?
And I like seeing the poll results; I don't know why seeing them would affect someone's decision, as this is an anonymous board. The autumn contest results came out pretty much as I thought it would. Just my .02.

[regnaD kciN]

7. On poll results skewing votes...

I will admit that the problem has not been as severe over the past few months, but, throughout the better part of two years of having these contests, there's been a consistent pattern where, in the first few hours of a poll, two or three entries get a several-vote lead over the others and, from then on, draw almost all the votes, leaving the rest behind in the dust. It seems like there's a "bandwagon effect" where people want to vote for a potential winner, and decide that choosing a photo other than one of the front-runners (however good it may be) would be wasting one's vote.

As I said, the phenomenon hasn't been as obvious in recent contests, but there's something to be said for a format where it couldn't affect the results at all, IMHO.

[Ms. Toad]

9. I often view seeing the current poll status differently

I figure if the winner/s is/are obvious my vote is a lot more meaningful in selecting the wild cards. I often deliberately avoid voting for the front runners.

[Eurobabe]

3. I really like the thought of hidden results until you vote idea!

Maybe if we invite folks to comment on what they voted for and why (like a mimi crit) I think the GD was nuts when we posted the photos because of the election hoopla. Just my .02 pfennig.

I am so thrilled that the polls are now in GD. I would keep the threads in GD for voting for maybe a little longer than 2 days. We'll get them used to the monthly contests yet.

Good job with hosting this last contest, you done good. :D

[xiamiam]

4. ive been on du for a couple years...the photo contest enlightened me that a photography group even

existed...du saved my sanity but i never even looked beyond gd, latest and greatest...and with the shenanigans and corruption going on, and the complicit media silence until after katrina...i had enough on my plate..a little tension release after the election so your timing was perfect..never even ventured into any of the other forums until i saw your photo contest..beautiful by the way...

i think there are some really talented duers who are very skilled at photoshop..layering and doing the political images..some of which are ingenious and very funny...if i could have a wish list, one thing would be to learn how to do some of those things...dont know if there are "how to" threads here, since i just arrived but i would appreciate that...

maybe im asking for too much...just thought i would throw it out there...

[JeffR]

6. Try these links, xiamiam

Photoshop Lover: http://www.pslover.com/

The Photoshop Roadmap: http://www.photoshoproadmap.com/

Photoshop Techniques: http://photoshoptechniques.com/main/defaulth.php

Photoshop for Photographers: http://epaperpress.com/psphoto/

[xiamiam]

12. thanks Jeff...also found an online forum for canon users yesterday after posting this

so that and these should keep me busy....appreciate truly..x

[Ms. Toad]

8. Every once in a while

someone will throw up a photo to play with and folks usually explain what they did with it.

We had a round robin (not the proper term - but I hope it conveys the concept) photo critique which I thought was great, but didn't move very quickly. One of us put up a photo and invited critique, others chimed in and sometimes offered modifications. The first person to critique the last photo got to put up one of theirs for critique.

If you want help and have a specific image or concept in mind, put up a starting point and its likely we'd join in and offer suggestions.

[superconnected]

10. How about we try a 24 hour poll with the results hidden.

I can do that for the November contest no problem. In that case I can also accept more than 30 entries.

We could have the poll always on a week day, starting at midnight and ending at midnight.

We could even decided which day to have the prelims and finals and always keep them on those days.

It would be way better to have the contest down to 1 day for prelims and 1 day for finals because right now it's hard to schedule polls in a month with the time it takes for each phase.

Right now it's:
3 days for suggestions on topics
14 days - (2 weeks) leadtime to photograph the topic
3 days for entries
3 days for preliminary polling and
3 days for final polling
-----------
=26 days

For the people throwing the contest that means they have to start the contest immediately and end it immediately so the next months winner has a few days - 4 total to plan their contest.

THAT'S TERRIBLE!

Getting the actually polling down to 24 hours would be very helpful in saving time. And most of the free polls that dont let you see votes before you voted, have a 24 hour limit before they let people vote again.

[blueraven95]

11. I think you might be on to something

but...24 hours seems short. When I say we got the most votes in 24 hours we did, but we got nearly another 100 in the 2nd 24 hours. Maybe a day and a half or two? I would just hate it if we missed people who wanted to see it because it was too short.

My other hesitation - and this may seem silly - is that the poll as I understand you are doing it requires it being linked to DU, not directly on DU. I wonder if people will be motivated enough to actually go to the link - I know there are times where I'm just too lazy and I'm sure its the same for others. But if its something that just hits you in the face, well then, my bet is that people are more inclined to vote. My feeling was that it might be time to see if the admins could make changes to the current system here. But I am certainly not discounting your suggestion. At this point everything I'm talking about is just a hypothesis, and I suppose this month will be a good time to test it.

Also, the poll as you are thinking about doing it - is it something you would have to host every month or is it on an external site?

edit to add more thoughts

[superconnected]

14. We could have a du 24 or 48 poll with the du poll.

The poll I listed was a free public one. Any hosts could use it each month. But we could stick to DU polls and just have them shorter. I don't see a reason to have a poll over 48 hours, on this thread.

[intheflow]

13. I like the idea of 24 hour voting.

It seems to me that in the early days we only put the finals up for about a day, maybe two at the most. It was much easier to keep kicked. And it kept the voting lively--no "poll fatigue", which I sometimes thinks happens.

Posts on the GP are only allowed up for 24 hours. Part of me thinks that the impulse to have our monthly contest run longer than that is fueled by ego. (Not calling anyone egotisitical, I would personally love for all my best photos to be front and center 24/7 on the DU home page, but I mean ego in a generic kind of way. We love our photos and our photo group and naturally want to sort of "evangelize" about them.)

Actually, now that I recall, the photo group started before there was a GP. And when the GP started, you could vote Lounge threads onto the GP. It seems to me we went to multi-day voting after Lounge threads were banned from the GP. Now that we can post the contest in GD, we can vote it onto the GP, which should naturally get it more exposure, and thus, more votes. So in theory, we can reach a larger audience in less time, and kind of let votes of the GP to do a lot of the kicking for us.