A few thoughts on better photo contests

[superconnected]

Hi all.

Some of you may not like this idea, and others may embrace it.

For as many people who frequent DU the photography group doesn't have nearly as many posters as it should have.

Maybe we ought to throw out a net and catch more photographers. Yes that means more competition when entering contests.

My suggestion is that we post in the lounge and possibly GD, what the contest theme is and when we will be accepting entries. Then we post when entry time is open, on the other threads.

It's just a cross post of the same posts we put up here.

It will give more people an opportunity to get interested in the photography group. Right now they sit on the sidelines and vote as it's unlikely any even knew when to submit.

[blueraven95]

1. I'm of two minds on this

on the one hand, it would be great to get more people in here so we would see more stuff, it could be a great outreach project. On the other hand, that is really what the contests are supposed to be...that is that the people who express interest on those threads are encouraged to check us out, and the people who have never heard of this group are clued in to our existence. I'm just not sure. It wouldn't bother me if everyone else was okay with it - especially the moderators, but I wouldn't want to do it if it would create a major annoyance and wear out our welcome in other forums.

[jhain]

2. oh sure

NOW you think about this. ;-)

Sheesh Louise. I am already spasing about running this one!

Ok, I was actually considering this a few days ago. HOWEVER- and *not* because I am supposed to do this one but because of the Holdays -I do think we ought to wait until January if we decide to do it.

[RoyGBiv]

3. A Lurker's View

I hope this commentary will be taken in the spirit intended. I'm not trying to insult anyone or suggest that discussion of such things is bad in any way. I'm just trying to offer the perspective of someone who reads this group, participates very rarely, and just wants to enjoy it for what it is.

I've entered a few of these contests. The first submission I offered was submitted due to someone from this group posting in the Lounge commented on a photograph I posted there, and when I posted it here, at that person's suggestion, someone else offered that I should enter it in the upcoming contest. I finished second in that contest and third in another, that one being a complete shock considering the competition. I am not a photographer, per se. I just like to take pictures and think some of them, almost accidentally, turn out pretty well. I had one I wanted to enter in the silhouettes contest but, but I didn't, in part, because some of the controversy surrounding these contests, minor though it may be within the group itself, has sorta turned me off. I mention all this for context.

I entered that first contest for fun. Nothing more. I had no ideas about a "better" contest or whatever. I had followed those contests in the Lounge for a long time, had always voted in both the prelims and the finals, and I thought they were pretty interesting, if for no other reason than I like looking at photographs others take and trying to interpret them for myself and see how my thoughts of what is good compared to what others thought. It was neat to be a part of it, even neater to have taken a shot of something someone else thought should be a part of it. Everyone likes compliments.

But, lately, I've detected an almost intangible note of seriousness surrounding these contests, desires for more professional critique, comments by voters annoyed at some of the submissions, comments by others who denigrated the whole idea. And in response a lot of suggestions have been offered on how to change this or that or the other thing or make it better or more professional or, again, whatever. If that had been the context I had found in the beginning when I entered my photo on a lark, I wouldn't have bothered. If I wanted a professional critique or to be judged in a professional manner in a highly competitive way, I would have submitted my photo to an agent or a magazine and had it thrown back in my face as amateurish at best.

My advice is simply this. Focus on the fun aspects of this, and please, please don't get bogged down in the details, in particular "The Lounge" vs "GD" thing. The contest doesn't need a larger audience. It already has a huge audience and a lot of devoted followers. Just let it be that because, in the end, it's just a fun thing to do among friends who like to take photos.

[ConsAreLiars]

5. I'm pretty sure most of us regulars see the contests as mainly fun, but

there is also a general desire to learn. The desire for critiques is not so much a demand as a request. People like to know why (or why not) their images appealed to others.

As for the Lounge/GD thing, the good outcome is that posting in GD with a link in the Lounge yielded twice the number of votes (~300) as posting in the Lounge only (~150). This last contest, where no notice was posted in the Lounge, yielded something in between (~200). More votes and views means more chances to learn through the comments. I hope links to the GD threads routinely get posted in the Lounge in the future.

But I agree that griping about the quality of the comments isn't particularly helpful. It might be better if the Contest intros included some statement like "We hope you enjoy these images, and appreciate your votes, but we'd really like to hear what you found appealing or what you saw as flaws. Both positive and negative critiques will help us improve our work, and we thank you in advance for this kind of feedback."

[RoyGBiv]

7. I see what you're saying ...

I look at it this way from my perspective as a wanna-be writer.

I write things, and I get comments on what I write. When I submit those writings to anonymous forums (or, worse, friends), especially in the context similar to what one of these photo contests is, I never get "good" comments. (By "good" I don't mean positive, rather constructive. A scathing critique is far more helpful to me than comments along the lines of what generally constitutes a photo-contest critique, e.g. "What a great bunch of photos!!!") I get good comments from fellow writers and people who have some idea what it takes to be a real critic. In short, I don't look for real criticism from a semi-social sharing of work with random people.

So, yeah, I get it, but from this lurker's point of view, if you want such criticism, you're going about it all wrong.

It may have been suggested already, but if so, I missed it. If you want that kind of commentary, the group should run two, totally independent contests, one "public" and one only in the photo group itself. I think the "round table" idea is a move in that direction, and a good one.

[NashVegas]

11. Thanks for Your Comments

I think very few people in the group and even fewer, percentage-wise, of greater DU have ever been in situations where they've learned how to give - and accept - critiques of their work.

Sometimes, asking/pleading for feedback from a group of people is a surefire way to shut them up, especially if that group thinks you know more about the subject than they do. And/or if they're afraid of stepping on your ego.

I don't think the contests are at all helpful for critique for a number of reasons, but mainly beacuse no matter what a reasoned critique might say about why a particular photo needs or doesn't need improvement, the votes tally almost always indicates something else entirely. It works great for craft fairs, maybe, but how often do the crafters have to deal with each other on a daily basis, discussing their work?

[JeffR]

13. I want feedback about why all my recent entries have been so crappy

:crazy:

[intheflow]

4. This is what the photo contest has served to do.

We get new people almost every month because of the contest. These newbies are usually really interested in photography, they seek us out. I fear an announcement might lead to a submission frenzy by 30 people who own cameras but don't really care about photography. Then it becomes the snap shot contest. Not meaning to sound like a snob, just think we get excellent submissions now, and we have a steady growth. The reason the contest is so popular is because most of the folks submitting are really into photography, and so we get a lot of amazing photos. That's what draws the voters. But the participants... you'd think if they were interested, they'd come by and look us up on their own.

[ConsAreLiars]

6. The problem with announcing contests outside this group

is that we already get 30 entries plus a few too-late misses from this group only. About as many as the limitations of the polling software and speed-typing skills of the hosts make practical. I think the fact that the contests get seen elsewhere is enough to make people aware of this group. (BTW, before the recent change in DU, small groups like this had a "number of posts" counter associated with each, and this group was at or near the top.)

[xiamiam]

8. feels like you're talking to yourself here...ive only been here this month...

i was one of those who saw the october photo contest and thought it would be a great place for me...i love to take photos...love to look at photos and art..and watch people...yada yada...and other than the very first thread where i asked for and received great tutoring on how to upload photos, my experience here is a little disappointing...unlike the political discussion pages (where i have spent all of my time here at du until this month)..this group feels closed, less communicative and less welcoming...i thought well, ill just come up with some ideas like a photo of the day thread and try to change the climate here...heat it up a little...i mean this to be constructive although im afraid it doesnt sound that way...then i thought well, perhaps this group is about communicating visually...so i posted some photos...nothing...so i tried just posting comments about others photos...nothing...
well, that's a problem if the intention is to draw photographers or amateur photographers from du...you drew me in but somehow, the chill makes me want to head for warmer ground...it doesnt just happen to me...i see 20 posts and 200 views..or 2 posts and 90 views...what is up with that?
im just speaking my truth and none of this is directed at anyone...just a vibe i feel and im very sensitive to vibe...as well as visual..
i was very excited to find this group...here on du of all places...thank god for du...i started radiation treatment about the same time that i discovered the photo group..drove 3 to 4 hours back and forth every day to get zapped...each day when i returned i checked the greatest page, of course, and then i came here...hoping to see some new photos, of course the contest was wonderful, but i was hoping for images and commentary..or just images ...something...but i hesitate to post photos or comments and not get any response and im sure others do as well...
i think some people here are very talented...would just like to see more...i would also like to share my photos...doesnt have to be here...du already fills a need ..just thought this would be an added perk...

[CC]

9. I don't think it is you

xiamiam and not sure it is the group. Things did get a bit negative here for the first time I ever remember. I chalk it up to stress over the elections and spill over. DU was getting pretty stressed too. Normally it is a very warm welcoming group with a lot of humor and photos. Sometimes it slows down though. Mostly because people have gotten busy elsewhere.

I know I haven't been around much because I decided to torture myself by renovating my kitchen. I do look at all the photos, nightly. It helps me wind down though most of the time I am so tired I can't type worth a damn or think clearly enough to put anything into words that make sense. Then times like today come along and I try to catch up. Impossible for me to do. I also know to type something once in a while so people don't start having to hunt me down. There are a couple we have had to do that to. (You MIAs know who you are.) Still at the kitchen but it is finally getting near finished so I might make it here a bit more soon.

When it gets slow, post a pic. It will bring us out sooner or later. We are greedy for pics.:evilgrin: I forget who did it during the summer but someone posted a "Post a Pic for the Cube Rats." thread that brought a lot of people out and got a lot of pics. That was a fun one. New ideas are always welcome.

Also welcome to the Photogroup, a bit late but a warm welcome anyway.:hi:

[Blue_In_AK]

10. Don't give up on us.

We're not bad ... I think CC below is right on the money. Everybody just got kind of wigged out around the time of the election, and we haven't quite settled down yet. I've been really busy with my day job, plus it's been cold as hell here, so not much opportunities for picture-snapping.

I'm glad you're here and will be looking forward to seeing more of your photos.

[JeffR]

12. It's been a weird time, but don't be discouraged

The welcome I got here when I finally stopped lurking was really gratifying. It hasn't been pretty to see some of the discord recently, and there are days when it's just deadsville in here. Time of year maybe, election stuff, general passions running high, CIA maybe slipping something in the water...?

Stick with it and keep posting, please.

[JeffR]

14. BTW, you missed your turn in the roundtable

so you should post a pic there.

[xiamiam]

15. i know..had a little physical setback ...impedes creativity..on the upswing..just no time

today..maybe tonight before november is officially over...thanks

[JeffR]

16. Don't mean to be a nag

Sorry to hear about your health issues.

[xiamiam]

17. almost good as new...thanks...nt

[Ms. Toad]

18. The group ebbs and flows

Sometimes I'll post something and it take forever to get the first response. The first response kicks it back upthread, and I get a dozen comments in an hour or two. Saturdays and Sundays are particularly slow - we can go the whole day without a single post. Keep posting. Make some idle chatter. Pretty soon you'll feel right at home.

That said, deliberately working to draw new people here is a concern because its a lot easier to integrate one or two at a time (and make them feel welcome) than a whole boatload. I like the family feel of this little corner of DU - even of recently we do seem to have been squabbling like some of my non-electronic relatives...

[Blue_In_AK]

19. That's the way I thought of it, too...

Just a little family squabble. Personally, I love this group. This is where I know people. And when I see any of you out on GD or GD: Politics, I feel like I have a friend there. With intimacy comes conflict, I guess, but it's worth it.

I would just like to encourage you newer people not to get impatient with us. I've learned so much here, and have made some great friends.