The underlying problem at the heart of the immigration debate

[ComerPerro]

And everyone seems to be overlooking it in the media.

What are the biggest complaints by those opposed to illegal immigration?

"They use up our resources"
"They come here to abuse our social services"
"They get entitlements that even regular citizens don't get"

etc...


So here's my question:

Isn't all this talk and worry really just an indication of the disturbing lack of social services in our country?

Why can't Americans have health care? Why don't we have access to the very same social services that the anti-immigrant crowd claims that illegals have?


Furthermore: Why is our Government so focused on Nation-Building elsewhere, while neglecting the needs of people here at home?


Imagine: If we had national health care and better social services here, and if we had a more progressive tax system, would this debate about illegal immigrants even be taking place?


I think a lot of the backlash by Americans comes from jealousy. They no doubt have hard lives (thanks to conservative, Republican policies). And, when they are told the appropriate lies and BS, they are led to believe that illegal immigrants somehow have it easy, and that illegals are getting services that, under normal circumstances, normal citizens would be entitled to.

One classic example of this would be in-state tuition for illegals. On paper, it seems like a good idea. If a illegal immigrant wants to go to school, and lives in and pays taxes to a state, why shouldn't they be able to pay in-state rates?

However, critics will be quick to remind you that granting in-state tuition to people who aren't even legal citizens is not fair to out-of-state students. This is also true.

But, in this debate, which has been carried out repeatedly throughout the US over the last several years, no one ever brings up one interesting question:

Why can't our government set up funding for college education to make it so no one in the US would have to pay more than the in-state rates for tuition?

Moreover, the question shouldn't be "Why should illegals get in-state tuition", but rather should be "Why can't all Americans have the option of in-state tuition at any public University?"




just wondering...

[redqueen]

That's been a problem for centuries...

they divide the people from each other and then they can sit back and relax while they squabble over crumbs.

I hope it doesn't take the middle class going down in flames before they'll pull their heads out.

Perhaps Nader was right after all.

[ComerPerro]

8. Its almost hilarious

they are blaming and scapegoating illegals for problems that Conservative ideology has created!

[redqueen]

9. It's easy when people choose to be ignorant.

It's up to us to educate them. :)

Let's roll! :P

[ComerPerro]

12. Its not easy to educate the wilfully ignorant

[redqueen]

19. Oh trust me, I know.

I'm in Texas, remember?

I try to educate the ignorant by inaction, rather than beat my head against the wall trying to educate those that put have honed the ability to their fingers in their ears and go "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HERE YOU LA LA LA LA LA!"

[gratuitous]

1. Not to mention willfully missing the point

The demonstrations were against the proposal in the House that would criminalize illegal immigrants and anybody who helps them, wittingly or unwittingly. A soup kitchen that didn't require a green card check, an agency that gives out winter coats without first establishing that everyone getting something was here legally, a church that provides a weekly hot meal, could all be subject to criminal sanctions if they provided goods or services to an illegal.

That's what the demonstrations were about.

ON EDIT: I wasn't implying that Comer Perro was missing this point, but so much reporting in the media and postings here at DU don't seem to know anything about the above.

[redqueen]

2. Gee, how funny the liberal media doesn't point those rather important

facts out.

:banghead:

Reminds me of Bill Maher talking to Barney Frank last week... "well I never see anything about it in the papers."

That's your problem right there, Billy boy... you seem to expect them to actually inform you.

[ComerPerro]

7. Very true. Its amazing how they've spun it

We get all these people who say that the illegals were protesting to "demand rights", but, you're correct, the protests were set up initially in response to that proposal.

[BOSSHOG]

3. Isn't it ironic

that "conservatives" (acting on the cues from the white house) who rant and rave about immigrants are showing concern for social services? I think "conservatives" can solve this issue very easily. Don't hire illegals or do the job they do, thus doing away with any reason for illegals to come to this country. I find this a non issue, except to stir up the hate of "conservatives" to keep evil libruls out of power.

[ComerPerro]

5. Thats true too

Why do they care if illegals are putting constraints on social services?

Social services are already strained, because of Conservative policies!

[redqueen]

10. Yep... they defend the rights of business to hire these people.

They're making the problem possible to begin with!

[BOSSHOG]

11. I truly believe

they think there motives are top secret and no one can figure them out. If their actions did not result in so much misery, they'd be funny.

[HereSince1628]

4. Many states have developed tuition exhange programs

and also sometimes take special consideration of the needs of neighboring states. This is particularly true for programs like Veterinary schools where not every state has a school.

I'm all for programs that don't allow money to become an obstacle to higher education, but I am very reluctant to let the fed's get more involved because of politicians' propensity to attach political/social agendas to everything. With this rightwing theo-fascist party in power I really don't want them srewing with the content of higher education.

[ComerPerro]

6. True, but the arguement that always comes up

is, lets say that I, a Kansas resident (although I when I applied I lived in IL) wants to go to a California school. If an illegal in California can get in state, why can't I?

That's how its always framed.


BTW, I agree with you when you say that if the RW funds public university education, they will severly censor and control the content of what is taught.

[Coastie for Truth]

13. Lack of social services + RACISM (Xenophobia)

Remember Emma Goldman and Sacco and Vanzetti and Attorney General Palmer and the "National Origins" Immigration Act.

Racism/Xenophobia.

[ComerPerro]

16. Thats pretty much how scapegoating works

Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where they tried to deport all illegals.

It opens with one lone bear that escaped from the zoo and wandered through Springfield for a little while. It was finally captured, detained, and returned to the zoo.

But naturally, the citizens were upset about the "constant bear attacks" (as Lisa pointed out, it was the first and only documented bear attack in Springfield history) so they went to city hall demanding that the mayor do something about the bears.

He set up a "bear patrol", which included constant survelience by a fleet of vehicles and helicopters.

Homer stood proudly, declaring that the bear patrol was doing a terrific job. But then he opened his paycheck and saw a "bear tax" of $5 (to fund the new Bear Patrol).


Naturally, Springfieldians were livid about this new tax, so they again marched on City Hall.

Quimby, after asking an aide "Are these people getting dumber or just louder", finally resorted to telling the people "Your taxes are so high because of illegal immigrants!".

[treestar]

14. Right wingers who oppose all those things anyway have no

leg to stand on. If they think there should be no welfare for citizens to collect, they have no business crying about the illegals (who they want out of nationalistic, racist, ethnic grounds really).

[ComerPerro]

18. Well, in a way they do

Ones who don't want those services can rightfully complain about illegals who get their hospital visits for free (if that actually truly happens anywhere).


But what bothers me is when they say "If I want medical treatment, I have to pay for it".


Well, duh, moron. That's how you want it to work....

[savemefromdumbya]

15. yes Bush is using all our money for Iraq when it should be used for

Americans (and Mexicans LOL!)

[ComerPerro]

17. I thought that would lose him the election in 2004

And we should have campaigned really aggressively on it.


You listen to him talk about Iraq, and its disgusting. He promotes the same stuff that he opposes here.

He wants all Iraqis to have free, quality education, access to health care, good roads and civic structure, etc...


But he won't spend a dime on any of that here.

[savemefromdumbya]

20. Kerry said it but people were still soaked up with post 9/11

that they said OK for Iraq

[ComerPerro]

21. Yeah, its pretty sad.