I got called a "faggot" by an old man the other day.

[baby_mouse]

To be fair(ish) me and SO were at Ikea doing impersonations of the Swedish Chef and laughing in silly Swedish accents. We were kind of losing the plot. (as useful as some of its stuff is, I kinda hate Ikea... Also, we were laughing because I work in a hospital which deals regularly with another hospital that set up a mobile endoscopy unit to help us with our waiting list and employed a Swedish guy who wasn't an endoscopist to do the endoscopies and we were riffing on the "Swedish Endoscopist" in the style of the Swedish Chef (I've discussed the ACTUAL Swedish endoscopist's performance with other staff at the sister site and apparently we weren't far off the truth) and I was telling SO all about this...much hilarity)

So, some old guy says, with the utmost contempt: "You are faggots?" I wasn't sure if I'd heard him right so turned and looked at him. He says: "You are a couple of poofs?"

I said, loudly: "ooooOOOOOOOoooo, LOOK darling, an AGGRESSIVE person!"

He held my gaze (complete with big gay grin) for a while then looked away and walked ahead. (SO noticed none of the original name-calling and was then peeved after I told him and wanted to follow the guy around the store and intimidate him, I just said don't be silly, let it go).

Now, this could have been a Swedish guy (he did sound a bit Swedish), so maybe we'd upset him with our Swedish accents, but, frankly, who cares? If you're sensitive about your nationality all you get is people pointing at you and laughing over here in the UK. It's just silly.

I certainly didn't find what he said particularly offensive. I just think it made him look stupid. I don't really get the whole "faggot" thing, to me it's about as insulting as someone saying: "Your grandmother's trouser legs are too short!"

In light of recent threads, was I too nasty to an old guy? Is he allowed to call me a faggot (not that I was actually all that bothered) because he's old?

[redqueen]

1. I don't think you were nasty at all!

I think you handled the situation quite well... with humor and no hostility.

:hi:

[LisaM]

2. What a jerk. I wish I'D been there!

And if he was offended by the Swedish thing, he apparently hasn't seen the Ikea ads.

[sharp_stick]

3. We're you too nasty to the old guy?

Absolutely not I laughed my ass off at your "ooooOOOOOOOoooo, LOOK darling, an AGGRESSIVE person!" and I think that was a lot less than I would have done.

At the very least I would have followed him around and intimidated him. More than likely I would have called him a few choice names myself to see if I could have escalated it a bit.

[Sammy Pepys]

4. Sounds like he was just messing with you....n/t

....

[Norquist Nemesis]

5. Should have said, "You're a Hetero?"

or whatever the equivalent term to 'faggot' and 'poof' is.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

6. Sounds like you met up with a looney tune

you handled it well.

Poofs?

[baby_mouse]

44. Poof is an old equivalent of faggot in the UK

It's almost never used, now.

[mitchtv]

7. No, he is not allowed, unless you are in a red state

he is also entitled to a thorough reading off. I might've fallen , and hurt my back,because of his frightening me.(he might've even pushed me)

[RobertSeattle]

8. Some old people are very very angry all the time.

I was at the Grocery store yesterday and I oberved this old man get really angry when someone accidentally pushed his cart.

Sad.

[Coexist]

9. If he held your gaze and smiled - maybe he liked you

and didn't realize that "faggot" was a derogatory term (if he had a foreign accent)

:evilgrin:

[Book Lover]

10. No one is ever allowed to be rude, first of all

Rudeness is never allowed; you may make an exception to not be offended for whatever reason ("Grandmama isn't as sharp as she used to be," for instance). No one is required to react to anything a perfect stranger may say, with the exception of "Look out!" or "Fire!" I give you a 99.5% (you did say something slightly smarmy back, after all, which to be completely technical, is slightly rude).

[benburch]

11. I'd have said...

Yes, Honey, but you are *not* my type...

[400Years]

12. but but but you hurt the "old man's" feelings

some people also think you were infringing on his free speech apparently.

[Coventina]

15. Yes, being old means you have earned the right to be wrong or even evil

:eyes:

[baby_mouse]

18. Yeah, what IS this thing where old people are allowed to behave like kids?

I just don't get it! What's so special about them that they get to go around being nasty to people and anyone telling them to get lost is the bad guy? :crazy:

[incapsulated]

58. Well, since the other thread has been locked, heh

There are several reasons. One, they may, in fact, be senile or mentally incompetent. In which case you are effectively arguing with a mentally deficient person. Not good. Two, they may be physically frail, I know I don't want to get into a fight with some old bastard and have his heart give out because of me, lol. Three, it's cultural. If you were raised, as actually fewer of us are, it seems, to "respect" the elderly, then you give them slack. Now, some of it is because of the reasons I've already listed. Another reason is you have no idea what kind of life they have led, which isn't a strong argument to me, since that is true of any stranger you meet. Part of it is just respect for age, they have lived long enough to be given some "respect", which is also iffy, but giving people the benefit of the doubt that they have contributed something worthwhile over a long lifetime.

And part of it is, heh, we all look forward to taking advantage of the "hands off" rule when we get older. :)

[incapsulated]

64. BTW, I don't see anything wrong with what you did, heh.

It was funny. :)

[hfojvt]

26. doesn't everyone have the right to be wrong?

Or does everyone have the right to accost somebody that they think is wrong?
Being old does, however, probably mean that he was not a physical threat to the person he mouthed off to, which would not be true if the situation was reversed.

[baby_mouse]

31. Rights are things that are awarded by governing bodies, not individuals.

... or am I wrong?

So, if I'm wrong, don't I then have the RIGHT to be wrong? And, er, if I do, what does that mean, does it mean people aren't allowed to tell me that I'm wrong?

[400Years]

43. I disagree with the idea that freedoms are awarded by govt.

but I guess I'm denying you your rights to free speech by disagreeing.

[baby_mouse]

47. Freedoms and rights are different, in my head.

Freedoms are things we should already have. They're a necessity, not a present. In my head a "right" is a legal structure that you use to guage how to go about directing legislation around complex issues, a kind of "bottom line", so I don't really like it when relatively everyday occurences like arguments get bogged down in terms of rights, I think to be useful and meaningful the idea of "rights" should be quite clear and simple and should really only be used as a way of deciding cases in courts or in the government. I think there's a considerable difference between having the freedom to pursue something and the *right* to *have* it. In the first case, the result of gettting it is up to me, in the second, society is implicitly forbidden, not only from preventing me getting it, but from *not* *helping* me get it.

You haven't abrogated my freedom of speech at all. If you had me arrested for expressing my opinion or banned my book stating it or in some way made it *physically difficult* or *impossible* for me to *speak*, THEN you'd be abrogating my right to free speech, but if you aren't allowed to criticise my speech then society is abrogating *yours*. If I am free to speak, I have freedom of speech. Your disagreement doesn't affect my FREEDOM at ALL. It may make me look a bit dumb if you're obviously in the right, but that's it.

This is an issue upon which I think I am going to have to post something...

[400Years]

63. well stated

thanks

[hfojvt]

52. telling somebody that I think is wrong that they are wrong

is one thing. Calling them a name is another. Going into a profanity laden rant is another.

According to Jefferson people are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, and that governments are there to secure those rights, not to grant them.

[baby_mouse]

16. Yeah, it's only CERTAIN PEOPLE who are allowed free speech.

Anyhow, he got to say what he wanted. I dunno if what he got in return was what he was expecting or wanted, but so what? A lot of people seem to think "free speech" means "freedom to censore response".

[nini]

35. This guy started the verbal abuse

the other didn't.

big difference here.

[slackmaster]

61. Exactly - The issue is civility, not censorship

:argh:

[ScreamingMeemie]

74. I believe the difference is that in the case of the other "old man" he

didn't encourage the confrontation...In this case I'd be all for pooping on him. In the other, no.

[Mythsaje]

13. I used to have a friend who'd go into the Swedish Chef

at random intervals while partying. We'd be rolling on the floor by the time he was finished.

As a six-foot-three rugby player and a homophobe (I came to the conclusion he'd been molested as a child and had a long-standing grudge), he would've taken serious umbrage at such an assumption.

[henslee]

14. fag.

[baby_mouse]

20. Blink. Where?

Did I miss him?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

17. No and no, however...

This line bothers me a lot: If you're sensitive about your nationality all you get is people pointing at you and laughing over here in the UK. It's just silly.



Let's play a little word substitution and see how much you like it:

If you're sensitive about your sexuality all you get is people pointing at you and laughing over here in the UK. It's just silly.

[baby_mouse]

22. Yep. Still fits!

:-) Sorry!

Maybe it's just a UK thing...

[Opusnone]

19. At least he didn't call you a Commie Fag!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

21. "You're a breeder??!!"

"Or to be more accurate, were at one time in the rather distant past..."

Snap.

[baby_mouse]

40. Now there's one I haven't heard for a while.

TBH, he probably wouldn't have udnerstood it...

[pnwmom]

56. I loved baby_mouse's humorous response. The problem with "you're a

breeder" is that that would be reacting with name calling on the same level as the old guy. Would you really want to offend all the other straight people within earshot by using a slur? (Many of whom may not even have heard the guy insult you.)

Whereas baby_mouse's amazing off-the-cuff reply specifically describes the behavior, and in a humorous way.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

23. Remember that great line from "Boiler Room?"

Richie (to a gay man at a restaurant): "Hey, you know what they should do with you guys? They should take all of you guys and throw all of you on a fuckin' island somewhere."
Gay Man: "Oh, yeah. Hey, guess what."
Richie: "What?"
Gay Man: "You're on it."

[Crankie Avalon]

24. Oh, come now---that's a false comparison and you know it.

There's a big difference between you yourself initiating a confrontation with an old man, spewing obscenities and making all sorts of grandiose assumptions about him based on nothing more than not liking the sight of one silly bumpersticker--and standing up for yourself when it's the old man who goes out of his way to inject himself into your life by initiating the confrontation, namecalling, and rudeness with you.

Apart from pointing the above out, kudos to you for handling the old man very well.

[baby_mouse]

28. Yeeeeah, I know. I just thought there was a lot more being attached

...to the whole age thing than really should have been in the other thread and wanted to remind people that old people are genuine PEOPLE and shouldn't be mollycoddled OR condescended to. Also, sometimes they behave like brats as well... You're right. And yesyesyes if I was that interested I should have posted in the original thread, but I was seeking attention... ;-)

[tenshi816]

25. Maybe

he had these on his mind.

I'm joking, of course. What a silly thing for anyone to say, whatever age the person who said it was. I'm particularly surprised that it happened to you in the UK. I'm always going on about how live-and-let-live people are here, but there are bound to be a few idiot exceptions to the rule.

(Completely off-topic, DUer Binka's coming to Leeds at the end of this month. Do you fancy coming down for an impromptu DU meet-up? It will probably involve several bottles of wine.)

[woo me with science]

27. Hmm...is your reasoning here

that because THIS old guy was a prejudiced idiot, therefore the other OP was justified in cussing out an old guy who had the nerve to express his political opinion with a bumper sticker? Is that what you mean by referencing the other post?

You handled the situation well, confronted with a bully and an idiot.

In the other situation, the OP was the bully and the idiot.

We just have to keep our idiots straight.

[baby_mouse]

33. I was more thinking of the age thing.

There was a lot on that thread about how the subject's age should have modified the behaviour, I think that's sloppy thinking, really everyone should have the same respect in my book. I think the OPer on the other thread was out of line, but not because of the subject's *age*. In my own little way, I'm pointing out that old people can be nasty too... Not that I think the subject was particularly looking for a fight, from what I can tell of the other thread...

[woo me with science]

50. I am probably a little old fashioned

in that I still teach my children to treat older people with a special respect. I think most elderly have earned that much. I understand and agree that some elderly can be rotten, but I also figure I am not going to retrain someone at that age anyway, and who knows when dementia may be playing a role. I have seen the personality of a wonderful family member change in horrible ways since getting a disease related to Alzheimer's. Things come out of his mouth now that he would never have said when his neurons were working properly.

But I agree with you that age could be considered a red herring in the other case. The OP's behavior in the other post was horrible regardless of the age of the target, and I think you are right that that is the more important point. Nobody deserves to be cussed out or intimidated because of a political bumper sticker. In my mind, the fact that the owner of the car was elderly just made the tantrum seem even more egregious.

Thanks for explaining the point of your post. I mostly agree with you, I think.

[ContraBass Black]

29. "Your grandmother's trouser legs are too short!"

:rofl:

[baby_mouse]

36. Your shirt is the colour of cheap marmalade!

You're not very good at darts! Your dog sleeps at an awkward angle on a large pile of Reader's Digests! etc.

[ContraBass Black]

48. The make of your car is popular with old people!

Your glasses distort the view of your eyes!

[baby_mouse]

49. ROFL!

YOU DRESS IN THE MANNER OF A MALE PROSTITUTE!!!

:rofl:

[ContraBass Black]

51. Your best friend went to a vocational school!

:D

[baby_mouse]

65. Your dentist uses cheap deodorant! And wears loud ties!

B-)

[Touchdown]

30. Was the second a question?

You had a "?" on it, but it looked like a statement.

If it was, my usual reply is "How bad do you want to find out?"

[baby_mouse]

37. Blink. How bad do I want to find out what?

You've lost me. Post back, I won't get straight back to you as I have to meet SO and pals...

[Touchdown]

57. Not you silly, him.

If it was a question..."ARE you a couple of faggots?"

A..."How bad do you want to find out?"

[populistdriven]

32. bork

Tu be-a feur(ish) me-a und SO vere-a et Ikea dueeng impersuneshuns ooff zee Svedeesh Cheff und loogheeng in seelly Svedeesh eccents. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Ve-a vere-a keend ooff luseeng zee plut. Um de hur de hur de hur. (es useffool es sume-a ooff its stooffff is, I keenda hete-a Ikea... Elsu, ve-a vere-a loogheeng becoose-a I vurk in a huspeetel vheech deels regoolerly veet unuzeer huspeetel thet set up a mubeele-a induscupy uneet tu help us veet oooor veeeting leest und impluyed a Svedeesh gooy vhu vesn't un induscupeest tu du zee induscupeees und ve-a vere-a reeffffing oon zee "Svedeesh Induscupeest" in zee style-a ooff zee Svedeesh Cheff (I'fe-a deescoossed zee ECTOoEL Svedeesh induscupeest's perffurmunce-a veet oozeer steffff et zee seester seete-a und epperently ve-a veren't fer ooffff zee troot) und I ves telleeng SO ell ebuoot thees. Um gesh dee bork, bork!..mooch heelerity) Su, sume-a oold gooy seys, veet zee utmust cuntempt: "Yuoo ere-a fegguts?" I vesn't soore-a iff I'd heerd heem reeght su toorned und luuked et heem. He-a seys: "Yuoo ere-a a cuoople-a ooff puuffs?" I seeed, luoodly: "oouuuOOOOOOOuuuu, LOOK derleeng, un EGGRESSIFE persun!" He-a held my geze-a (cumplete-a veet beeg gey green) fur a vheele-a zeen luuked evey und velked eheed. Bork bork bork! (SO nuteeced nune-a ooff zee ooreeginel neme-a-celleeng und ves zeen peefed effter I tuld heem und vunted tu fulloo zee gooy eruoond zee sture-a und inteemidete-a heem, I joost seeed dun't be-a seelly, let it gu). Noo, thees cuoold hefe-a beee a Svedeesh gooy (he-a deed suoond a beet Svedeesh), su meybe-a ve'd upset heem veet oooor Svedeesh eccents, boot, frunkly, vhu ceres? Iff yuoo're-a senseetife-a ebuoot yuoor neshuneleety ell yuoo get is peuple-a pueenting et yuoo und loogheeng oofer here-a in zee UK. It's joost seelly. Bork bork bork! I certeeenly deedn't feend vhet he-a seeed perteecoolerly ooffffenseefe-a. I joost theenk it mede-a heem luuk stoopeed. Bork bork bork! I dun't reelly get zee vhule-a "feggut" theeng, tu me-a it's ebuoot es insoolteeng es sumeune-a seyeeng: "Yuoor grundmuzeer's truooser legs ere-a tuu shurt!" In leeght ooff recent threeds, ves I tuu nesty tu un oold gooy? Is he-a ellooed tu cell me-a a feggut (nut thet I ves ectooelly ell thet buzeered) becoose-a he's oold?

http://www.rinkworks.com/dialect/

[baby_mouse]

39. !!!!!!!

:ROFL:

I should have got the poor old boy's e-mail address!

[Touchdown]

34. WTF is big, tough, macho guy doing in an Ikea Store anyway?

:wtf: And he's there talking like that without any sense of irony.:rofl:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

38. I think you were ok

you answered what he considered an insult with humor. But I'm going to remember your line about your grandmother's trouser legs to use when someone tries to insult me the next time-and I'll laugh and think of you while the insulter shakes his head and scratches it in confusion.

[baby_mouse]

41. In fact ONE of your grandmother's trouser legs is SLIGHTLY too short.

Which is even WORSE. so THERE. :-)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

53. My grannies are grinnin' in heaven

as you say this!

[Buddyblazon]

42. My response would've been...

"Uh...your in an Ikea...HELLO! Now how are you going to explain to your friends you got the black eye from a "poof?"".

[Kingshakabobo]

45. I woulda pushed him down and broke his hip. n/t

[Der Blaue Engel]

54. .

:rofl:

[Behind the Aegis]

46. If it were me...

...I would have said, "Why? looking for a date? You're not my type, check out (insert local crusing areas)." But, then again, I am bitch! :)

[Initech]

55. I would have shouted lines from Monty Python & The Holy Grail:

Your father is a hamster and your mother smelt of elder berries!

I fart in your general direction!

I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper!

No, now go away before I taunt you a second time!

Of course, the first one I have never been able to say with a straight face...

[Horse with no Name]

59. Too funny

Respect is never about age...it is never about entitlement...it is always earned.
I used to have a vision of all of the old and lonely people in nursing homes until once I had a very old man as a patient.
His family never came to see him...but anytime he was admitted to the hospital they would call to check on him.
I could never understand why they wouldn't visit the "poor, lonely old man" and certainly held a resentment to his kids for not doing so--ASSUMING that the reason was that the kids were merely selfish and self-involved with their own lives to visit their poor old dad.
One of his daughters enlightened me though at one point.
Apparently this "poor old man" beat their mother and molested one of their sisters.
Turning old doesn't make people worthy of respect. It's what they did before they got old that earns that.

[ronnykmarshall]

60. Why do you even question that?

I don't care if the mother fucker was in a wheelchair, blind in one eye and dragging an oxygen tank.

FUCK THE BASTARD!

[RedG1]

62. probably another "straight" Repuke that's

been molesting daughters, nieces and sisters all his life

[DetroitProle]

66. they don't have Repukes in the UK n/t

[DetroitProle]

67. kudos. less nasty than I would have been

You handled that well. You made him look like a fool with humour.
I don't discriminate based on age or anything else. It was a good response to any aggressive idiot.

[SOS]

68. I get that all the time

Maybe because my hair is two feet long?
My response:
"No, I'm not gay, I'm a hippie."
They get so confused within their various hatreds, they usually don't know what to say next.

[area51]

69. " ...was I too nasty to an old guy?"

No, you weren't.

[spuddonna]

70. LOL! I think you handled it wonderfully...

And no, just because he's an old man it doesn't give him the right to be rude...

I have noticed from several of my older relatives that as they became older, they were much less apt to be 'civil' and would say stuff that would make your head spin like it was a lazy susan! My one aunt said a year before she died, "I ain't screenin what comes out of my mouth anymore." She would say things that were extremely bigoted, and hurtful. It was really tough to deal with but at the same time we talked about things she never would have talked about in her early years, including all of her prejudiced opinions... It was an interesting year!

But even that doesn't excuse him or anyone else who acts rude. :) Good job!!

[mcscajun]

71. Not nasty at all! Extremely quick-witted, and very theatrical.

:)

He deserved more, but you rendered him speechless, so that's enough.

[zippy890]

72. older generation homophobes won't be around

in a few years.

There are fewer of such people in the younger generations.
I think things will be much more accepting because of the demographic changes
over the coming years

[readmoreoften]

73. I'm sorry. And there's no need to apologize for this man.

Your Swedish Chef routine has nothing to do with it. You didn't do or say anything wrong. There's no appropriate response to this.