Reflections On Balls

[omega minimo]

To understand the appeal, potency, spiciness and fascination of “balls,” one must begin at the beginning. After turning “balls” over in our minds and bouncing around these “balls” threads, there are some well-hung arguments.

DU has provided many powerful, revealing “balls” discussions. Most recent is the GINORMOUS and brilliant thread by Plaid Adder-- very thoughtful and inspiring, with suggestions for where to go from here. (PA, you’ll need a Wheelbarrow to carry all those Replies!)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1140375&mesg_id=1140375

The effort to find a matching term for “balls” that applies to women is pointless. Why? Because the definition of “no balls” is “you’re a woman” or “emasculated.” The reason men cling to “having balls” is because of the horror of having “no balls.” Girly. A woman. Feminized. Emasculated. Wussy. “Having balls” is the DEFINITION of being a Man. Those who think the term is “generic” have forgotten the meaning.

If people want to overlook the gender-specific meaning and fling “balls” around willy-nilly, they can. Yet, if the question raised by Plaid Adder is how candidates approach “balls” or show "balls" and the public and political perception of “balls” -- then it is important NOT to forget the origin of the slang.

Women in public life need not apologize for “having balls” or “having no balls” or “having balls” that "obviously" they must have stripped from someone else. Women in public life are owed an apology for culture that equates all things powerful and positive with masculinity; for images, language, medicine, religion, society, etc. that define maleness as “the norm” or even as “God.”

A Burger Franchise has a commercial now with a bunch of macho men in the street singing about meat and how they don’t want no sissy food-- all choreographed to the 70’s Helen Reddy hit “I Am Woman.” Backlash or Backwash?

The reluctance that some people have to using the term Backbone, rather than "Balls," is based on the fact that Backbone refers to firmness, strength, length, rigidity, flexibility and ERECTNESS. Whereas "Balls" suggests that all it takes is "having them."

However, at the recent California Democratic Party Progressive Caucus Impeachment Forum in Sacramento, the MALE voices roaring out of the crowd of 1,000 people were yelling not “BALLS,” but “BACKBONE.”

A reply to Plaid Adder’s thread raised the notion of “HEART” which is a unifying and appropriate term for our efforts. If SOME men need help relating to this, they may strip naked, paint themselves blue and channel Mel Gibson with a spear. “HHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRT!!”


Thanks Plaid Adder for the gutsy thread :bounce: :loveya: :bounce:

[MuseRider]

1. I will second

or third or whatever your thanks to Plaid Adder. It is a wonderful and insightful thread.

To you, :applause: for a delightful read. I love your play on words.

I have not seen that advertisement. Really? That is astounding and very sad. When I see it I will send another note to another company to be ignored and put on the pile for the messages sent by "castrating bitches" who do not understand their place.

I, for one, will continue to function just fine without balls. Don't have them and (dare I say this?) don't want them. We all have our own certain brand of courage and heart and I think it is sad that only half of the population is really able to claim a gender specific term for those qualities.

[omega minimo]

3. Scenery-stomping macho burger wars for the boys

stiff yogurt, salads and yoga cds for the girls :eyes:

"We all have our own certain brand of courage and heart and I think it is sad that only half of the population is really able to claim a gender specific term for those qualities."

I also think it's sad that someone in that BODACIOUS thread thought that "mighty white of you" was a "compliment to blacks, too"! :wow:

[MuseRider]

8. I just went back

and read those posts and I think the poster meant that white people thought that was a compliment to black people and I do remember that from my childhood, even then I thought it was the most insulting thing I had ever heard. If the poster was coming from that standpoint then her point was well made that using "balls" is much the same. You can't be as good as me so I will use myself to define you. At least I think that was what she meant.

[omega minimo]

10. Oh wow. Painful.

I remember hearing it as a kind of "joke" in high school, far enough away from origins that people don't have to think about it (unless they do) kinda like.................. oh yeah! I get it. :bounce: :bounce:


Mighty GINORMOUS of ya ta help me out there, dear MuseRider. :thumbsup:

[Warren DeMontague]

17. I s'pose I must be an emasculated sissy

'cuz I stopped eating burgers years ago.

I eat tofu, organic greens, all that frou-frou hippie crap. (And when I changed my diet, my cholesterol went from a respectable, masculine 300ish to an effeminate 130 or so. I suppose if I was a *real* man, I'd be dead by now) I drink lattes and drive a tiny, high-mpg japanese car. I've never even considered owning a pickup truck. I must be completely ball-less.

Of course, I don't watch a whole hell of a lot of tv anymore, either, so I've never seen the commercial in question.

[omega minimo]

29. It's My Party And I'll Cry If I Want To

Yep, yer with that sprout-sprouting Democratic Party, too! One reason it's not a bad idea to question the More-macho-is-what-we-need approach is that the Repugs are bullies. Of COURSE they're gonna call Dems "girly men" if they don't "fight back." That's what bullies DO.

The very-different-philosophically-and-politcally party-- that USED to unify the Underdogs-- may not NEED to take a "balls out" IN-YER-FACE attitude to succeed. To think that way may be a nice, smelly trap set up by the mindfuckers, eh ETA?

:grouphug:

[prodigal_green]

63. Of course what balls you do have

probably function better than any of those guys in the fast food commercial. High cholesterol, diabetes, high blood pressure and coronary heart disease can all underlying causes of erectile dysfunction and impotence. That's not their balls getting bigger, just their prostates.

[Touchdown]

2. I find it ironic that someone who harps on an age old adage

...would list their gender as "Undeclared". :shrug:

BTW: You left out eunichs, which is closer to the truth than gender comparisons that you and PA have focused on. Declaring and celebrating our manhood does not translate to being anti-woman. It's not always about you.

[omega minimo]

4. "Harps"!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:




"emasculated" = eunuch.



"Declaring and celebrating our manhood does not translate to being anti-woman."

So, according to you the use of "balls" IS about men, maleness and celebration of malehood.



"It's not always about you."

Oh ouch!! :rofl: :rofl:

It is SO "all about YOU" that ANYTIME women raise their hands and their heads and their voices we get the big SMACKDOWN that it's ALL ABOUT US!!!!

HIlarious :rofl: That took....what........... 2 posts?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

5. The very definition of maleness it seems

Is how differentiated from female you are. Insulting and demeaning women is the sine qua non of machismo. You explained that pretty clearly in your OP.

Then they add insult to injury by pretending we don't exist at all. That is, until they have some need for us like sex, food, domestic services, or an expedient political wedge issue involving our reproductive parts.

Sigh.....:shrug:

[omega minimo]

6. "Sine qua non" -- that's "big word talk" as W. would say!

:hi: thecatburglar

"How differentiated from female you are....." So if we recognize the fallibility of that as a starting point, maybe we invent a different, more relevant starting point.

Here's to "expedient political wedge issues" and wise (new) DUers :toast:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. Hi back! And thanks. n/t

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[REP]

20. There Are Other Expressions That Have Been Around For Ages...

Like "Take it like a man."

"Men don't cry."

Expressions that tell us what a man should be and that perhaps certain men are less of a man. You think we should keep using those?

BTW: You already took our foreskins before we could be pigs, now you cry because we not congratulating you 24/7, and instead talk about the body part you didn't take a knife to.


BTW: I don't think any of us here took your foreskin or have any designs on any other part of your body ... perhaps you should consult a professional?

[omega minimo]

23. "Some pigs are more equal than others"

Animal Farm :hi:

[Touchdown]

28. My mother consulted a professional once.

He recommended circumcision.

They are just expressions. If somebody uses them, that doesn't make them sexists.

[REP]

31. None Of Us Here Are Your Mommy

Take it like a man. Real men don't cry. Especially over something that happened that long ago.

[Touchdown]

38. It wasn't cut off when I was a man.

...and as long as women continue to butcher their children because "It looks pretty", then I will continue to point out the butchery.

[REP]

40. So, All Women Are Mommies?

Guess again. Not all women are mommies or even want to be mommies.

So, your father had no say at all? Your evil evil mommie said, "Off with his prepuce!" and that was the end of it? Was your daddy being held hostage by feminists?

You REALLY need to get over this. First, this isn't a pro/anti circumcision thread and second it has nothing to do with the issue at hand - other than your issue, of course, which no one is interested in. Let me repreat: We're not interested in your penis. At all.

[Touchdown]

46. Oh' sorry, my bad

You're only interested in cutting off our balls.:eyes:

[omega minimo]

47. Now I KNOW you're not serious

:rofl:

[Touchdown]

56. *smirk*

;)

Admit it. It took BALLS to come in here and face off against the gender undisclosed, didn't it?
I didn't even get to my "If you have to ask, then you will never understand! I hope your comfortable sleeping on the couch!":rofl:

[bloom]

33. Did you have a father or are you a son of "God"?

You seem to blame everything on your mother. What's up with that?

[Touchdown]

37. She's the protector. She's the whole world of the child.

The father doesn't come into the picture until much later...like when our senses can see his face and hear his voice.

[bloom]

67. That's a lot of BS

From what I remember of some circumcision threads - the men (as fathers) were arguing for the right to make the decision and a lot of the women deferred to the child's father. It was more likely that when women looked into it - they suggested it not be done. If the hospitals tend to do it automatically - it's not women who instituted the policy.

I think you just want something to blame on women.


Are you the same as Proud2BAmurkin ? - this was his obsession as well.

[atommom]

76. That's what happened here. My husband was the one who

really wanted the kids circed. I would have opted not to, but agreed to go along with him since he had experience with "the equipment."

[Touchdown]

19. Whhen you seek to define men and the expressions we use

as sexist, when it doesn't even apply, then yes. You think it's all about you.

So :rofl::rofl: Anytime a man sees male bashing for what it is, then women who don't declare their gender on their profiles get to make non-sequitur conclusions to further define and tear down more men. Your laughing only shows your condescension and disdain for men.

It took more like 102 posts, since you decided on a Rikki Lake post to cash in on PA's Oprah post. You're the Buck Rogers TV show of Balls posts...not quite Star Wars original enough.

[REP]

21. Those Awful, Awful Women!

Yes, they're hoding you back! I bet you can't go ot alone at night without having your ass pinched.

[Touchdown]

30. I don't know what "ot" means

and you shouldn't know what "whhen" means either.:dunce:

Did I say anything about you holding me back? If I criticize a command to change men's vocabularies, I'm automatically impotent? That's like criticizing Bush*, and me hating the troops.:eyes: It makes no sense.

Here's a word you should know...Non-Sequitur.

[REP]

32. How Interesting You Brought Up "Impotent"

I just wondered if it was unsafe for you to go out alone at night. The less I know about your dick, the better, okay?

I must have missed the command to change men's vocabularies. Maybe it was issued in a special pitch audible only to those who have ... issues.

[omega minimo]

34. "Maybe it was issued in a special pitch audible only to those who have .."

"Maybe it was issued in a special pitch audible only to those who have ... issues."

:spray:



Funny how SOME men would rather spar with women than face the Bully Repugs :shrug:

[Touchdown]

36. And the condescension continues to seep out.

I spar with Repugs all the time. I do have a pet peeve with male bashing though.

[REP]

41. If You Think I Was "Seeping" You're Not Paying Attention

And it's mockery, not condescension.

[Touchdown]

53. Six and a half-dozen the other.

[omega minimo]

24. And yet no one here is doing that

Sometimes "a man sees male bashing for what it is" "when it doesn't even apply."

You wrote (without any other info-- is that a non-sequitur?):

"Declaring and celebrating our manhood does not translate to being anti-woman."

I inquired:

"So, according to you the use of "balls" IS about men, maleness and celebration of malehood."

The other concepts you are attributing to me are all mixed up-- you are talking to your stalking horse here, ready-made arguments with cookie-cutter adversaries, talking to several people here as if we are all the same person. As someone pointed out, you have illuminated several of the cliche responses that occur REPEATEDLY in these sort of discussions.

Including coming out swinging. I would be very interested in what you think about this, without the antagonism. In fact, there's another cliche-- "being ballsy" often means getting up in someone's face with agressive energy as if it's required. Here, it's not.

There's no malebashing or lingo-police here. I picked up on the heart of PA's thread. (And yes, I expected someone to take the pot shot about that, too) :hi:

"If people want to overlook the gender-specific meaning and fling “balls” around willy-nilly, they can. Yet, if the question raised by Plaid Adder is how candidates approach “balls” or show "balls" and the public and political perception of “balls” -- then it is important NOT to forget the origin of the slang."

:hug:

My gender is not relevant on DU, any more than your sexual preference is, unless we choose to share it. Isn't that the point of non-discrimination? Being judged on the "content of one's character" and not automatically associated with a group based on superficials?

G&L people wanted to be treated as if their private lives are private. So do women.

The concept raised by Plaid Adder was about public life and the issue of "balls" as it relates to candidates and legislators in office.

[Touchdown]

35. That's right, PA did.

Her argument questions public figure's use of the expression. You made accusations of mysoginy, and took an opportunity to make a few assumptions about the male anatomy, complete with ready made straw men that women have made up for years. Quite a different argument.

That non-sequitur you made was not phrased as an inquiry. It had a period at the end, thus I read it as a conclusion you made.

Your gender may not be relevant to the majority of threads on DU, but it is part and parcel of your assumptions in this specific subject matter, and I also might add that your friend up there made an accusation that men are only nice to women when they want sex, food, or house cleaning, which as a gay man, doesn't apply to me. I'm not to respond to that bit of stereotypical Helen Gurly Brown/Cosmo BS? By mocking the use of "Balls" to childish, mysoginist, and inadequacy assumptions (which are the very cookie cutter, men are really boys, cliches that you accuse me of), you are making a tacit demand that we stop using the term, because it's not inclusive enough for your taste. Hense my response of "It's not about you". Using the term "Balls" to describe men as nervy, brave, assertive, courageous or foolhardy does not in any way detract from women who may have the same attributes. The term just wouldn't be used. What would you suggest the new gender neutral term be? "Wow! He's got some real testalabia!" ...or do you prefer "Ovicles" Who's equipment get's first billing?:shrug:

While we're on the subject of lingo-police...it's sexual orientation. Preference is Pepsi over Coke, Vanilla over Strawberry, etc. Sexual preferences are 6-packs over kegs. ;)

What do I truly think about the use of it? I don't think much about it, really. It neither offends or exhalts me. I rarely use it, and even then, only in a joking manner. Probably why it's so funny that Colbert uses it so much.:hi:

[omega minimo]

44. Still a lot of confusion here

"Her argument questions public figure's use of the expression. You made accusations of mysoginy, and took an opportunity to make a few assumptions about the male anatomy, complete with ready made straw men that women have made up for years."

That is not the (either) case at all. Don't mix up the different voices here as if they're all the same person.

Like I said, I'd be interested in your perspective, minus the antagonism.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[unkachuck]

9. having balls....

....although positive most of the time, does have it's occasional disadvantages....if you've ever ridden a bicycle with balls and had the chain slip, you realize having balls can be painful....

....which reminds me, in my teenage years I once knew a young woman who would go around wacking boys in the crotch just to see their reaction....now she had balls, but yet, didn't....

[omega minimo]

12. ...means never having to say you're sorry

Hi unkachuck-- we'll be gentle with you. :hug:


.....and what do Scots wear under their kilts?

.....how did the Picts fight naked?

.....maybe "having balls" originated with doing a head count after the battle :think:

"Cedric! Mate! Ya still got balls?"

"Aye, Desmond, bot' ae them!"

[sweetheart]

58. latin roots

it appears the words entymology goes back to "ballare" (latin) - "to dance"

I know several scots who have never worn a kilt, ever. Do all
americans play basketball. Probably some of them don't wear
underwear, and their balls bounce up and down the court, shooting
in holes all over the place.

[bloom]

11. "women in public life are owed an apology for culture..."

Or maybe all women.... public or not.


I like the backbone symbolism.


Seems like a party would realize we are a lot stronger with all of our members - male and female - that if we just rely on half of us as having any serious substance - even if is just "symbolic". I don't know how anyone can seriously argue with this.

[omega minimo]

13. Like a backbone, interlocking

"Seems like a party would realize we are a lot stronger with all of our members - male and female - that if we just rely on half of us as having any serious substance"


Well put, bloom. And didn't women quit trying to be imitation men when they turned in their 80's Power Ties and Shoulder Pads?

[Warpy]

14. Well, as I often find myself pointing out to strutting banty rooster

type males, we women do have balls, two of them. We just don't keep them where they can be easily and casually snipped off.

That generally shuts them up.

[omega minimo]

15. Don't get snippy with me, Young Lady!!

:evilgrin:

[Warren DeMontague]

16. Reflections on Balls:

I'd be perfectly happy with "backbone". Whatever one wants to call that-which-is-clearly-missing, personally, I just wish more of our people would find it.

[omega minimo]

25. 'Spherey nice of you

BEAUTIFUL! (love the Escher) Thanks for that, impeachdubya.

Yes, the current "that-which-is-clearly-missing" award goes to Dick Durbin for stating the obvious about tapping the "Architect" of the warrantless spying program to head the CIA.

[atommom]

49. Perfect response!

And those are nice balls.

[MsTryska]

26. I dunno - I'm a woman and i don't feel particularly

put down by the concept of balls.

let's be honest. men can't make babies so they overcompensate. (i bit that from Margaret Mead, Male/Female).


Besides - they wouldn't have balls if the balls didn't tell them to not be ovaries.


meh.

[Arugula Latte]

43. Yes, the poor things have that strange mutation

from the double X chromosome norm .... It must be difficult to be mutant freaks ...

;)

[MsTryska]

62. *lol* although truth be told

we all start out as assholes, and then most of us evolve from there.

;)

[lonestarnot]

27. Got great balls a fiya!

[Name removed]

39. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sweetheart]

42. cajones, huevos

to be still and have no judgement,
to love when it is unreturned,
to fight for justice when inustice reigns,
to take losing a loved one square in the heart,
and to feel all the pain and suffering of others
and still smile...

:-)

Huevos.

[omega minimo]

45. Ah, sweetheart

Huevos Rrrrrrrrrrrrancherrros

(see #12) :loveya:

[atommom]

48. Great post, as always.

I'm also puzzled by the he-man burger commercials. They look to me like an attempt to strike back at some insult to manhood that no secure man was even aware of. (I'd ask my husband what he thinks, but he's in the middle of eating his Caesar salad.)

[omega minimo]

51. "Caesar salad" You funny

:hug:





"They look to me like an attempt to strike back at some insult to manhood that no secure man was even aware of."

[atommom]

54. Do you suppose the burger commercials are aiming at

teenage boys whose parents are nagging them to eat healthy? That's the only other interpretation I can come up with...

[omega minimo]

69. Seems like competing corporations are copycatting

Carl's Jr. commercials that have been obnoxiously macho for years......

And ya gotta wonder WHY this big push to sell MEATMEATMEATMEATEATMEATEATMEAT :puke:

[atommom]

70. Are cattle inherently macho?

I could see it if they were hard to catch and hard to kill, but I just don't see why eating a cow is that empowering. :shrug:

[omega minimo]

71. Have you seen Carl's Jr.'s "Shake That Thing" spot

with the guy pushing, stroking and shaking a cow? Seems like he wants to do something udder than EAT it.....................

[atommom]

73. We don't have Carl's Jr. out here, so I haven't seen that one.

But if there's a sexual element to the whole man/cow phenomenon, that might explain a lot. :hide: :yoiks:

[mongo]

50. And those that get hysterical over using a word

with "masculine" origins, have forgotten the meaning of the word hysterical.

[spooky3]

52. k&r

[ShortnFiery]

55. "Thanks Plaid Adder for the gutsy thread"

IMO you got BIG BALLS ... almost as big as mine. ;)

[Autonomy]

57. Don't you mean she wrote a "GYNormous" thread?

:hide:

[tomreedtoon]

59. "Ya Gotta Have Heart"...c'mon, you never saw a musical?

Would you guys kindly rent the movie "Damn Yankees" and watch the song? It's still the most gutsy, all-male choral song in musical history, and it says nothing about balls. It says that emotional dedication, not male aggressiveness, is what wins.

And this is going to get people angry, but I feel (in my heart) that it's true - Kerry, Gore and the other "front-running" Democratic candidates all lack heart. If they had had it, they would have fought harder and longer, whatever politial "strength" they might have had, to win the election and overturn the corrupt vote stealing.

[MuseRider]

60. I sat right next to

Tony Randall when he sang that in a theater in the round in Houston, Texas. You just made me smile over that memory, thanks.

You are so right. "All you really need is heart"

[Hidden Stillness]

61. Waa-a-h, They're Exposing Hypocrites Again--Waa-a-a-h

I think people are not facing the fact that when the word "ballsy" is specifically chosen, when what was meant was "courageous," or "standing up for principle," or "being a good/fun trouble-maker," etc., then it is a deliberately hostile act, and they are very aware that they are shoving our faces in the shit. All you need to do is read the hateful male hysteria, with all the same prefabricated attacks--from "castrating" to "politically correct" to being "anti-male" (as they attack us with completely bigoted language they apparently do not even recognize, so isolated are they), to daring to "define them" (or anything else) as they define and restrict us--to recognize that this was always burning just below the surface, with this type, and is the basis. These are the same males, by the way, who over and over again, try to "reason" as to why all rape victims are "lying" and why there "is no such thing," etc. You can't pretend it isn't the very basis of this word-use, when it is.

The whole message of this backlash, and the use of male terms for everything "good" is: 1) Male=good; and 2) We only want males, not you. I'm tired of males getting credit for courage and "saving everyone," when women do the same all the time--we are police, Firefighters, soldiers who volunteered, astronauts, and--things that never get any credit that take as much courage as anything else--such as being social workers who investigate cases of child abuse and have to go to the suspected homes alone; not to mention the fact of pregnancy and childbirth, which no male has the guts to do. Face the fact that "ballsiness" is not exclusive "good," as even those who argue against this bigotry seem not to understand, thus missing the threat. Do you think Bill Frist and all the rest of the rich males felt "ballsalicious" when they paid for and went on a hunt to murder tame, captive animals that had been drugged? Of course they did--that is the point. Do you think abusive males feel "ballsy" when they beat and rape "the wife" and she can't get anyone to help her--of course they do. They do not feel "ballsy" because they have accomplished something great, as is bizarrely always suggested on this website; they feel "ballsy" because males won, and women lost. Fun to stand up to real danger, even more fun to beat down a "bitch" who will always lose. The male wins, for being a male in a male system. Then they want you to think "ballsy" could not possibly refer to males only, so you will stupidly continue to uphold the system that makes them win every time. Don't wake up.

Finally, when women are really respected and treated as heroes, they are never degraded and insulted by this male-imposition standard. I remember hearing from my parents about a real hero, Eleanor Roosevelt, who with Franklin Roosevelt was considered a saint and great American in my household. They were revered, and I learned why, and revere them now. Of all the exhalted language I heard applied to her, and explanations why she deserved respect, it all described her, and her greatness. They, and I, would have been appalled at an invented phrase that took all the credit, and even the reference, away from her, and gave it to someone who had nothing to do with her achievements and goodness. The same type of bigot that refers to everyone as "guy," or "he," also loves the thought of all the world being "balls."

Whenever I hear males like Jon Stewart, who can't even keep up an intelligent conversation with the very few women guests on that rag program, use phrases like "ballsalicious" to describe, as here, Stephen Colbert, I imagine Jon Stewart, down on both knees, licking Colbert's balls. If this is how you want to impress people, have at it. I want women participating in the world, and am fucking sick of being hated by males.

[ShortnFiery]

65. Whoa!

I've never seen so much obsession on a word that is now gender neutral.

It means more than simple "courage,"
it don't mean "heart" -
it has more gravitas than "guts"

IMO - here's an example --> that when your friends are backed into a corner by say, the Hells Angels, you stroll over there (man or woman) and splash a drink in the meanest one's face to create a diversion to scatter the crowd.

It's being out on that on that figurative limb - yet ready to crawl a little further out IF NEED BE ... usually being BALLSY is doing some good, but you don't have to. That is one can be STOOPID and BALLSY re: "Stella!" ... it has its own crude connotation and I love it!

And yeah, it's gender neutral, duh. :shrug:

[bloom]

66. That's a good rant!

Obviously - not everyone gets it.


I've mentioned how Jon Stewart is with women guests, also. A lot of people don't seem to recognize that as sexism, either. I guess most of the people who work on that show self-identify themselves as libertarians. Liberal, equality minded ideas seem to be getting lost on a lot of people.

[omega minimo]

68. Jon Stewart is short

"Do you think abusive males feel "ballsy" when they beat and rape "the wife" and she can't get anyone to help her--of course they do. They do not feel "ballsy" because they have accomplished something great, as is bizarrely always suggested on this website; they feel "ballsy" because males won, and women lost. Fun to stand up to real danger, even more fun to beat down a "bitch" who will always lose. The male wins, for being a male in a male system. Then they want you to think "ballsy" could not possibly refer to males only, so you will stupidly continue to uphold the system that makes them win every time. Don't wake up."

"Stellllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa."

"I think people are not facing the fact that when the word "ballsy" is specifically chosen, when what was meant was "courageous," or "standing up for principle," or "being a good/fun trouble-maker," etc., then it is a deliberately hostile act, and they are very aware that they are shoving our faces in the shit. All you need to do is read the hateful male hysteria, with all the same prefabricated attacks--from "castrating" to "politically correct" to being "anti-male" (as they attack us with completely bigoted language they apparently do not even recognize, so isolated are they), to daring to "define them" (or anything else) as they define and restrict us--to recognize that this was always burning just below the surface, with this type, and is the basis. These are the same males, by the way, who over and over again, try to "reason" as to why all rape victims are "lying" and why there "is no such thing," etc. You can't pretend it isn't the very basis of this word-use, when it is."

It's so obvious, that it's easy to ignore, just like all the discrepancies formed in history and culture that are based on gender. Funny too that the naysayers want to pull out their dicktionaries and spout sementics, because so much of these historically embedded attitudes are embedded in language. Like "hysteria" for example.

"Finally, when women are really respected and treated as heroes, they are never degraded and insulted by this male-imposition standard."

The heroes you speak of transcend all the petty bullshit and take the mass-mind with them. These splits must be healed for survival's sake. All these issues are interconnected. Maybe someday we can connect the dots instead of just bouncing
:bounce: :bounce:

[MsTryska]

72. I'm sorry I need to reply....

specifically to the first sentence, which stopped me short:

"Do you think abusive males feel "ballsy" when they beat and rape "the wife" and she can't get anyone to help her--of course they do."

a. There is very rarely a woman who can't get anyone to help her when she's in an abusive situation. All sorts of people will climb over each other to aid her. IF SHE WANTS IT.

Which is the problem. Not that a woman can't get help, but so many refuse help when offered.


b. I think i'm offended by your brand of feminism. You seem to come from this place where soemwhere deep down, you believe women are weak, and passive, and need help to not be abused. Like you've bought the line the patriarchs fed you and now are a champion for the "cause".

I just don't come from that place. I've always been strong, competent and level-headed. Consequently, I can't ever recall men acting anything other than respectful, and confident in my abilities. And I'm in a male-dominated field. And there are many other women, whom I think have had the same experience, from Joan of Arc to Eleanor of Aquitane, to Queen Mary of the Scots, Eleanor Roosevelt, Indira Gandhi, hell even Margaret Thatcher.

[omega minimo]

74. nonsense

[Hidden Stillness]

75. I'm even sorrier I need to reply....

You appear to be getting several things confused, not the least of which is that omega minimo was quoting me, as to the fact that "ballsiness" is not always some "healthy" feeling after a great accomplishment, but often the result of abuse (partial quote; I referred to another situation, the murderous hunts of drugged, tame, captive animals), and "winning" over a victim who can't fight back--that was exactly the point. I am offended by your failure to understand that battered women's shelters are underfunded and never have enough space for the number of people seeking shelter, there are not enough counseling programs for women with shattered confidence to try to restart their lives, and I am tired of reading "your side's" accusation, "IF SHE WANTS IT," with all capital letters, for some odd reason. Yes, women love beatings, so you claim. When women are able to save money and have a place to go, statistics show that some 95% of them leave. I don't understand, or want to, your attitude toward them.

You are also mixing everything up together with your "you all think you're victims/that's why males don't treat you well/I have women heroes and have 'never, really never' suffered discrimination/you are weak even though I've never met you," etc., etc., which is also typical. If you can't distinguish between the totally shattered, frightened place where an abuse victim lives, and ordinary women who can be strong and happy, then it is up to you to learn; I can't make you care when you don't. Second, I am almost always treated well by people; my attitudes are what we call "political," and are not mere personal psychology, and the smarmy little swipe about how males are respectful to you--and I must be horrible and bringing it on myself, oh no!--is incoherent. I have no problems with people. I don't get your attack.

When women make this claim that they have "never" been discriminated against, because they are good little girls, or strong and brave, or they agree with everything the male says, or whatever it is, I no longer even try to hold up a mirror to people like you who will not face even the small things; life will teach you, sooner or later. Feminists do not "believe women are weak" by referring to injustice or bigotry. Please learn a new routine, and learn how to read.

[omega minimo]

77. Thank you

:grouphug:

[MsTryska]

79. Question? Do you actively work with abused women?

because you sound a bit fatuous - like it's all a theory, and not exactly your reality.


yes there are quite a few who will leave, given the right resources, etc, etc, but there are also many who believe "all he needs is a little help, he's a really good guy, the kids need a father, blah blah blah."

you can talk to a woman who thinks like this until you are blue in the face, offer every possible kind of support available, and she'll turn you down, because she thinks he can be saved.

forgive me for being a bit bitter, but after years of trying to save women from themselves, i've pretty much come to the point where i feel women in these situations are smart - and when they are ready to make a move they will.


as for the rest of what you're saying - i'm not even getting into it. the last thing i need to do is engage in a "i'm a better feminist than you" pissing match.

[omega minimo]

82. Your attitude blocks your perception

:cry:

[mongo]

78. MsTryska

You're my kind of feminist.

Thanks for staying out of the victim mentality that is all the rage on DU.

[MsTryska]

80. right on Mongo! thanks. nt

nt

[omega minimo]

81. You both need to read more carefully

:hi:

[ShortnFiery]

83. Kudos MsTryska

I agree with you "very close" to 100%. It's merely our different past experience. I've competed with men and they can be quite jealous (some of them) IF you are a real competitor. Now, I'm stereotyping because the vast majority of men I've worked with - are also real team players and not small minded. The men who become resentful will tell their fellow men, who later have reported it back to me. Yeah, everyone gossips. :P

One young man who was resentful of my position once came up to me and said, "Ms. X, you are the MOST aggressive woman that I have ever met!" To which I quickly retorted, "Oh Mr. X, that's the nicest thing that anyone has ever said to me. Stop! I'm about to cry." :thumbsup:

It's human to stereotype but no INDIVIDUAL man or woman will fit neatly into our society's LAME sex role stereotypes of the 50s.

Women can be both strong and independent and also show grace when a gentleman takes the time to open a door for her with a prompt "thank you."

It's not all or nothing - IMO It's give and take.

IMO, you express yourself well Ms Tryska, nice to make your acquaintance. :hi:

[MsTryska]

84. Thanks ShortnFiery!

I have to agree with your take as well.

perhaps it's because we're women, but my experience has also been that men are more team-oriented also.

I also think women compete more with women (and men with men) than vice versa, but that's pretty natural.


And your point about individuality is key - if you want to blow away stereotypes, live it. If everyone started living it, stereotypes don't really work, you know?

[Ksec]

64. Jeebus.

I hate to say balls are overanalyzed but they really are people. Use that energy somewhere that counts.