Everything hangs on fair elections. Everything.

[helderheid]

Edited to add - a free press would help the fuck out too.

[Blackthorn]

1. Yes, to a degree.

[helderheid]

4. to a degree? Please elaborate! :)

[Blackthorn]

15. As I've said in a few other posts...

I highly doubt that the Democratic candidate put forward for the 2008 election will do anything more than postphone the PNAC agenda.

Look at how many Democrats, both House and Senate, that voted for the Support Freedom in Iran (or whatever its called) Bill. The lists are up here on DU somewhere. Look at Hillary being courted by Rupert Murdoch.

Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin. The two-party system is a sham. It's just impossible to rise to any height in national politics ithout being bought and paid for. Sure, Kerry or Boxer may talk tough, but when it comes to actions; Kerry flunked on the election and Boxer has voted for the above mentioned Bill.

For the billionth time, I hope people don't take this as an attack on Democratic principles, just a majority of Democrats in Congress, who's record speaks for itself.

[lvx35]

16. Sorry man, the difference is too huge.

Who did Clinton propose we pre-emptively nuke for instance? Or torture? Dems totally do have to make compromises, but geeze, there is a pretty big difference there in my opinion!

[pnwmom]

17. The differences between the Democratic party and the current

Republican party are profound, unless you're speaking from the perspective of a Naderite, Green, or whatever.

Gore wouldn't have attacked Iraq after 9/11. He wouldn't have stacked the Supreme Court with right wing extremists. He would have worked to strengthen environmental laws, not decimate them.

The Democrats are far from perfect, but they're even farther from the Republicans.

[Blackthorn]

18. I don't disagree with that.

But I have a different perspective on this. PM me if you want further thoughts, I don't think people are ready to hear it, and I don't want to risk my membership here angering people.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[helderheid]

5. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[Kiouni]

3. i was just having a discussion

the other day about diebold and how those machines are set up to cheat. he had a bus too. odd.

[helderheid]

6. here

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/helderheid/108

[savemefromdumbya]

7. Rove said they will win, now we know how

with scandalsville the GOP should be all out of office but no.

[magellan]

8. No argument here.

I had an interesting, albeit brief conversation with the DCCC tonight. They wanted a contribution. I turned them down. I told them they won't even acknowledge the voting machine problem and they want money to win elections? I said they could move on. They did.

[helderheid]

9. Perfect. Thanks! VOTE ABSENTEE paper ballot. That one will count more than

a vapor one.

[SeattleGirl]

10. I've voted absentee since the horror of 2000.

:thumbsup:

[magellan]

11. Sigh. Not here, I'm afraid.

My county's absentee ballots are put through Diebold's Accuvote optical scanners and tabulated using GEMS software. It's just as bad as the touchscreens. And please, don't tell me about the value of paper ballots in hand recounts. The chance of a hand recount is slim to none, we all know that.

What we need is a move to hand-counted paper ballots, with plenty of count watchers.

[Swamp Rat]

12. Our fate as a nation will be decided very soon

... elections might not matter at all anyway if Bushler drops The Bomb on Iran.

[helderheid]

13. I know...I know. :(

[Swamp Rat]

14. sorry