Scout's admission of being Wiccan leads to turmoil

[Occulus]

I didn't see this in LBN yesterday and I don't know the time of publication, so I put it here in GD.

Scout's admission of being Wiccan leads to turmoil

ANACOCO -- The camp is going well so far. Boy Scouts have gathered from around the area in khaki button-ups and red scarves, eager to earn their God and Country badge.

The leader in a room of about 20 Scouts decides to break the ice by showing how religiously diverse the gathering is.

ADVERTISEMENT

By a showing of hands, he asks who belongs to the Baptist Church, the Catholic Church, the Methodist Church, continuing on until two boys are left who have not raised their hands.
One of the brothers is called out to tell the group what church he attends. He replies, "I'm Wiccan."

http://www.thetowntalk.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060509/NEWS01/605090308/1002

I'm forcibly reminded of the scout who was ejected after coming out as gay. The good news is in the last paragraph of the article.

[Squatch]

1. The District Superintendent hit thenail on the head:

"Our church's motto is to open our hearts, minds and doors to everyone because we all have to come to an understanding of God on our own -- these boys should be no different," District Superintendent Doug Ezell said

[mondo joe]

2. Funny - my recollection over atheist scouts is that the scouts said they

didn't care WHAT religion a scout was but they they had to believe in some god. If my recollection is accurate, it sounds like that was a line of BS.

[Occulus]

3. The article states this from the Scouts:

According to the Boy Scouts, it's up to the sponsors to make that choice.

"Boy Scouts own the program but does not control the unit," said Legare Clement, executive director of the Boy Scouts for southwestern Louisiana. "We partner with community organizations and churches as sponsors to present the program, which is actually a youth outreach for them.

"They approve leaders by our standards, but they have a right to choose members," Clement said.

Same music, different lyrics, perhaps?

[mondo joe]

4. Sounds to me like they're trying to play it both ways.

When necessary, people are barred by the scout "standards".

When necessary, people are barred by local sponsors.

Just so they find a way to keep 'em out!

[One_Life_To_Give]

18. Probably trying to not force the local

into accepting members.

[mainer]

26. When I was a den mother, I said "Mother Earth is a god, too

I asked my den boys, "who loves Mother Earth?" and they all said yes and that was that. I figured it was enough religion to qualify.

[mondo joe]

5. Then there's this Atheist Scout told to FIND a belief

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West/10/31/atheist.scout.ap/index.html

PORT ORCHARD, Washington (AP) -- Eagle Scout Darrell Lambert has earned 37 merit badges, worked more than 1,000 hours of community service and helps lead a Boy Scout troop in his hometown.

Last week, Lambert was given roughly a week by the Boy Scouts' regional executive to declare belief in a supreme being and comply with Boy Scout policy, or quit the Scouts.

On membership applications, Boy Scouts and adult leaders must say they recognize some higher power, not necessarily religious. "Mother Nature would be acceptable," Farmer said.

As a private organization, the Boy Scouts are permitted to exclude certain people from membership. The organization bans gays and atheists.

[benburch]

6. Wasn't there a wiccan merit badge program a while back? nt

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. Then the BSA whines and moans that they are NOT a religious group

And are therefore entitled to receive -- nay, deserve to get -- free goodies, special deals and legal exemptions at tax-payer expense that religious organizations are prohibited from getting.

Every time I hear something about the Boy Scouts of American nowadays, its because they sink further and further in to being a Talibangelical, fascist organization. How very, very sad.

[noonwitch]

8. Thank Goodness that Girl Scouts have not gone that way

Girl Scouts is still a great organization, that empowers girls and doesn't cram any religion down anyone's throat.

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. That's because

The Talibangelicals who have taken over the BSA can't be bothered to indoctrinate women.

So far, that is.

[mondo joe]

11. They just play every angle, no matter how contradictory, to exclude those

they don't want.

Isn't honesty in their oath?

[FuzzyDicePHL]

10. Here's the part that really pisses me off

Not everyone embraced the church's decision, including some parents of troop members who, officials said, feared that their children would be preached to by the two boys.

XTIANS who are afraid of being preached to?!?! OMG that's a lotta MFing nerve.

[shadowknows69]

12. Some of these people's faith must be so shaky

they don't even deserve a religion. lol. Personally my Gods don't sweat other Gods that much.

[FuzzyDicePHL]

21. Probably the same folks

whose marriages would be destroyed by the legalization of boys kissing.

[Solon]

15. Fucking ironic too...

Considering us Wiccans are FORBIDDEN from proselytizing at all, preaching isn't required nor preferred. Yet Christians are COMMANDED to spread the "Word".

[FuzzyDicePHL]

19. OMG I didn't know that

Ironic indeed.

:mad:

[Solon]

24. Its sort of part of the theology...

Let's see if I can actually explain it, ok, Christians would mostly say their relgion is the TRUTH, period, Wiccans would say their religion is the TRUTH for THEM. Not THE Truth, but A truth. There is no punishment in the afterlife for "unbelievers" in Wicca, nor even a real award for believers, its more along the lines of honoring your Gods as inspiration for living a good life. Depending on the Interpretation of the Wiccan Rede, which is sumed up as "An it harm none, do what thy will." Preaching as Christians call it would be a form of spritual assault, along the lines of intimidation or a "protection racket" like what the Mafia does. At least that is my interepretation, which is basically, tread lightly and leave as little negative tracks as possible.

Most Wiccans came about the religion through independant seeking, usually through books, rather than through preachers, some are taught it through teachers, however, usually those teachers have strict rules, for example the honest ones want honest seekers, and will not accept compensation, and will not teach to minors unless parents give permission. That type of thing, but the key is that the people they teach are receptive to begin with, seekers rather than laity.

[FuzzyDicePHL]

27. Thanks for that explanation!

Very interesting. I really like that idea of not offering one's beliefs to others unless they ask.

edit: removed the word "imposing" since its implications didn't convey the thought I was going for.

[Solon]

31. Actually, this type of theology is leading to some interesting...

debates of sorts. Basically it has to do with their own kids, some Wiccans interpret the prohibition to extend to their own children, and they act on it in different ways. Many believe(as I do) that the seeking part of spiritual development is key to understanding WHATEVER religion you choose to follow, in a case like that, raising your own child in your faith could be spiritually harmful to them. So some Wiccans raise their children in what amounts to no religion, either practicing their religion in total privacy of the home, or they go out on the major holidays, never really telling their kids what they are doing. Me, personally, I think this would be confusing, especially at young ages, I'd be honest with my kids about my religion, but also, when they are old enough to understand, I would also say that they are free to choose their own path, if its mine, that's OK, if not, that's OK too because as long as they are comfortable and happy, why should I care otherwise?

Now, some Wiccans don't take this view, but like I said, its a debate, and to be honest, when it comes to Wiccans, its far from a consensus, as some would say, ask 10 Wiccans for an opinion on ANYTHING, and you will get 12 different answers. :)

This is only my opinion though, take it for what its worth.

[FuzzyDicePHL]

36. "raising your own child in your faith could be spiritually harmful to them

I've always felt that idea to be somewhat true...

The more I learn about Wicca the more I like it (and I already didn't reject it the same way I have no patience for, say, born-agains and catholics)!

[kestrel91316]

29. Projection of the highest order...............they wouldn't hesitate to

preach, themselves, so they are convinced that Wiccans would also preach. But guess what: Wiccans do NOT evangelize, or solicit "converts". It's not their thing.

[LostinVA]

30. Wiccans don't proselytize -- it's literally against their beliefs n/t

[TlalocW]

13. The BSA is un-American

If they want to be a private group then they need to give up all the goodies they get from the various branches of government - from a $1 fee to rent land from a military base for their big jamboree they have every 4 years in which the military comes out and helps set things up to using schools for meetings after hours. Then they can exclude whoever they want. Until then, our tax money is going to support these jerks.

TlalocW

[Xeric]

14. There have to be some standards

when raising little fascists.

[Samurai_Writer]

16. My son was kicked out of scouts because we don't practice religion

7 years old and I had to tell him he couldn't go back to scouts because of some bigotted people. This was in 1989. And I'm still pissed off about it -- scouts would have been a great experience for him.

[One_Life_To_Give]

17. As a former advisor

This does not appear to be from the National Office. But the actions af a few individuals.

[kath]

20. Well, the National Office does insist that members and leaders believe in

some "god" or higher power.
No atheists allowed. Period.

[One_Life_To_Give]

23. Kind of hard to be "Reverent"

without a belief in something.
It might be "Ming" Emperor of the Universe
or "Hal" The supreme computational power.
We could even create the Church of the DU. And ordain all the rituals and tithing to the Lord Skinner.

About the only thing I found that could not be worked. Was the extreme concern about Child Molestation/Pedophilia. That lies behind their unacceptance of Gay leaders.

[kath]

25. The Church of the DU - sounds good to me!

your post reminds me of that old t-shirt - "A man's gotta believe in Something... I believe I'll have another drink." :-)

All kidding aside, it's disturbing to me that atheists are not allowed, unless they lie and pretend to believe in something. It looks like the Scouts may even encourage this sort of lying: "The Buchheims said Doherty told them that if Cody had lied about his faith, the boys could have remained with no problem." What a great message to send to kids, eh??

I'm sick to death of the extreme prejudice against atheists in this country, and of the ridiculous but pervasive notion that one has to believe in some Daddy-in-the-sky in order to be a moral person. It just ain't so. Seems to me that it's actually a much *higher* level of moral development to be a good person just because it's the right thing to do rather than out of fear of eternal damnation. The whole "intrinsic reward" versus "extrinsic reward" thing (or whatever - need more caffeine...)

[trixie]

33. They are looking for followers

You don't have to believe in anything! You can believe in yourself and do the right thing. Why do you feel the need to believe and follow? We are raising leaders not followers.

[One_Life_To_Give]

35. From a practicle perspective

I think it messes up the merit badge/rank system.
(Note I worked in Exploring so I may be off on BSA Merit Badge requirements)

[SmokingJacket]

22. Alexandria, LA, is the worst town in the world.

My apologies to those of you who live there.

Leesville/Ft. Polk is the second worst.

[Scout]

28. wow, this really confused me for just a minute....

I thought, hey! what the hell, how did they find out??
I'm Scout, I'm a Wiccan, too!

This sucks, but glad someone is starting a troop for "non-Christian" kids.

[trixie]

32. This is why we don't do BSA

Why should any child have to stand up and say what church he belongs to?

Now Girl Scouts do not mention God or church at all. All girls feel welcome and we like that.

[tigereye]

34. huh

when my brothers were Boy Scouts, I don't remember there being a big flap about religion - seems to me it was no one's business. They were usually too busy starting fires in various place, camping, all that stuff...;)

The GSA were never into asking people about religion, either.