One thing everyone here missed, I think. The Phone Corps SOLD YOUR DATA!

[Up2Late]

I was just listening to the APM radio show Marketplace, and they pointed out something that I think everyone here missed about the NSA "Collecting you Phone Records" story.

"...The three telecommunications companies are working under contract with the NSA, which launched the program in 2001 shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the sources said...." <http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA >

Your Phone Company SOLD your data to the NSA!!! That's what UNDER CONTRACT means!

What's worst. YOUR TAXES are paying for this invasion of YOUR PRIVACY!

Just thought you all should know, if you did miss it.

Also: I wonder if this is why Qwest suddenly found themselves on the other end of a Federal Investigation???

Feds turning up the heat on Qwest investigation

The Denver Business Journal -

July 12, 2002
by Amy Bryer
Denver Business Journal

The same day President Bush told Wall Street about the need for greater corporate accountability, the U.S. Attorney's office told Qwest Communications International Inc. it was under criminal investigation.

While the office would not reveal the scope of the investigation, Qwest has been under civil investigation for months with the Securities and Exchange Commission for its accounting practices.

"The SEC is a regulatory commission so the worst it can do is impose fines or provide cease and desist orders," said Joe Dickerson, of Dickerson Financial Investigation Inc. "But now that the U. S. Attorney's involved -- that's when the rubber meets the highway and it can mean incarceration."

Qwest has been trying to recover from a lackluster balance sheet, $26.6 billion in debt and a stock price that shrunk 97 percent in the last two years to less than $2. Qwest, which trades on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol Q, closed at $1.77 on July 10. Several groups of investors have filed class-action lawsuits.

(more at link)

<http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2002/07/15/story6.html>

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. (deep breath, repeat) THOSE BASTARDS!

[Democrat 4 Ever]

3. Also heard they were threaten with no gov contracts if they didn't

comply with allowing the tapping. I said this in another thread, add blackmail to the list of Chucklenuts' crimes.

[spanone]

2. Qwest didn't play along.....guess what.

[Lefty48197]

7. Qwest is a terrorist organization?

.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

16. Qwest PROVES that what they wanted was Illegal?

But John Fund on Tweety says it's all overblown, so I guess we should move along..

[Avalux]

4. WHY ISN"T ANYONE ASKING THIS QUESTION???

Sorry, don't mean to shout, but I'm pissed.

They've been spying on us for 5 years - where are all the terrorists they've caught as a result? Where are they? Where are the trials??

Assholes.

[peacetalksforall]

9. The three most famous intelligence entities in the world haven't found

bin Laden in spite of Echelon, U.S. Domestic spying, and other technology and tehnicians.

U.S. ... U.K. ... Israel

[kestrel91316]

35. You know full well "terraists" don't GET trials, silly. They get Gitmo.

[Lars39]

5. I wonder which of the phone 'tax'/charges tacked on the bill

goes to enable them to run this contract...'cause you just know the phone companies have figured out a way to be double dipping.

[Up2Late]

10. I bet it's the "FCC Charge for Network Access," which was $5.00 in 2001

It's now $6.50. I'm still looking to see when Bell South added the $1.50 to the charge.

It says, "What's a FCC Charge for Network Access? A Charge to recover costs associated with connecting to the interstate Network.

There's also the FCC Universal Service Charge ($0.55 in 2001, now $0.63), but that seems a little to small of a change for something like this.

I know it sounds weird, but I have my Phone bills going back to 1997, but I'm not sure were the 2nd half of 2002 is right now.

[Dunvegan]

6. Up2Late is Dead On: We're PAYING for being spied on.

And Quest is being "punished" for not screwing us.

[LiberalEsto]

8. Time for permanent FREE phone service

If those swine are going to make money by selling data on OUR phone calls, we should all get a cut of it.

Time for Verizon, AT&T and the rest of the bastards to give us permanent, free phone service as compensation.

[Kansas Wyatt]

11. Class Action Lawsuit?

Any takers?

[babylonsister]

13. I'm most definitely in.

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[Up2Late]

25. Count this angry Bell South customer in too.

Several people here at DU are talking Class Action too.

I wonder if we could get Eliot Spitzer interested in this? Vivendi/Universal just settled.

Vivendi unit in $12 mln Spitzer payola settlement
Thu May 11, 2006 1:15pm ET16

<http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2006-05-11T171532Z_01_N11248447_RTRUKOC_0_US-MEDIA-UNIVERSAL-SPITZER.xml&archived=False>

[struggle4progress]

32. Don't start there. Makes it too easy for em to quash everything.

Start with certified letters to the local phone company asking if they violated your privacy by sharing your records without a warrant. Swamp em with paper. Make em put out fires everywhere.

If ya start with a class action suit, it will go to a BushCo judge, get tossed, and there will be nowhere to go ...

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

12. David Shuster on MSNBC said "under contract" It blew me away

I sure heard it loud and clear. And who is for this???:wtf:

[Occulus]

36. It was printed, too

I'm sure I read those two words in the USA Today article.

[leftchick]

47. It was and should have been EMPHASIZED

on the TV reporting. This Is CRIMINAL! :argh:

[BlooInBloo]

14. And don't forget about the quid pro quo....

... of gw pushing for all of the big telco laws n regulations, tax cuts, and the like.

[Gin]

15. doesn't taking money negate the national security aspect of it

and open them up the possibilty of being sued?

THAT tidbit (about being paid) blew me away!

[ourbluenation]

17. and my government bought it........eom

[Turn CO Blue]

18. I want to know how much they were paid."30 pieces of silver" no doubt.

[Up2Late]

31. You are paying $1.50 per month, at least that's what I'm paying BellSouth

...as a "FCC Charge for Network Access!"

I just went through my old phone bills, and the "FCC Charge for Network Access" charge went from $5.00 to $6.00 in my July 2002 Bill, and then it went from $6.00 to $6.50 in my August 2003 phone bill!

Plus there is a another smaller Fed Charge that went up at the same time, The "Federal Universal Service Charge" Which went from $0.49 to $0.58 in July 2002 and then $0.58 to $0.65 in August 2003 phone bill.

It coincides well with the 2002 Federal investigation of Qwest, I'd say.

So I guess it would be $1.50 + $0.16 = $1.66 per month extra you are paying so that the your Phone company can sell your call data to the NSA. :banghead: :grr:

[Up2Late]

19. Is there any way to contact Olbermann? He's on NOW, but is missing...

...the connection too (with the Federal Investigation of Qwest) and that they SOLD the data "Under Contract".

[klebean]

20. but, Turley said there's probable grounds for class action law suits n/t

[Up2Late]

21. That's because they are not supposed to "Give Away" this kind of data!

God, I hope they didn't write something into the "USA PATRIOT ACT" that makes this legal if it's "under contract," That would REALLY Suck.

[mom cat]

22. I am canceling my Verizon line. I will just use vonage.

[enki23]

23. what's to stop them from doing the same with cellphones?

who's got much faith they aren't already?

[Up2Late]

26. Vonage is one of those Phone via the Internet companies, I think.

My Cable Modem service it too unreliable for that.

[pdxmom]

27. I would guess that that is EXACTLY what they're doing. No

phone line is off limits to this administration.

[Up2Late]

24. Good luck with that. My Cable company is too unreliable to depend...

...on them 100%. I keep my Phone line as a back-up computer connection, the one good thing about the Phone is that, they are required by Law, to be something like 99.6% reliable (it has to work 99.6% of the time).

I just went though nearly 2 weeks of little to no Cable Data service this month.

Until the Cable Modem becomes at least 99% reliable, I'm keeping it as a back-up.

I did cancel my ATT Long Distance (switched to Bell South), but I almost never make "land line" long distance calls. I don't make that many Cell Phone calls either, but those are not safe either.

[mom cat]

48. I have a pretty reliable cable system. If mine was like yours, I would

look for other options. Good luck!

[dorktv]

28. Not my phone company...I worked for Qwest when 9/11 happened

and I still am using them. *smirk*

They still suck though.

[Blaze Diem]

29. Qwest was always my phone co...when I lived in the Northern half

of the Nation..
However, a move to Texas eliminated Qwest from my list of choices. I do know that they gradually stopped adding more new customers to their cell phone lists in some states around the spring of 2004.

I'd use them today if I could have access from where I live.

[dorktv]

38. Since Dick Notebaert took over Qwest has slowly been improving.

buy stock in them.

[Up2Late]

30. So, as a former Qwest employee, do you think the Federal Probe...

...was justified, or more likely the Feds sending them a message for not "playing ball?"

What a bout them sucks?

Is there other stuff besides what they've said about them on the Cable "news?"

Just asking.:shrug:

[dorktv]

37. No, Qwest needed to have someone look at the records.

I personally left them because I may have been a lowly customer service specialist but I have certain standards of how to treat a customer and they constantly were forcing me to violate them.

They violated the contract the union had with the company, they tried to save money in horrible ways and they were outsourcing to avoid paying decent wages. I worked for US West for two months before Qwest took over and the difference was enormous in just those two months.

In addition, Nacchio provided terrible leadership, created a very bad morale situation and generally was not someone who I would have trusted more then say Bush. And I only trust Bush to lie and be incompetent.

If they stood up to the government and were punished by this probe, it was nothing more then what they needed anyway.

[Up2Late]

33. K&R! You are paying $1.66 per month to have your privacy stolen!

See above: <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1161279&mesg_id=1164113>

We need to spread the word, and the outrage!:mad:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. Most of us who are with those phone companies KNOW they SOLD OUR DATA!

Take a look at earlier posts of the day. There were plenty of us calling to complain to our phone providers. There was outrage and still is outrage here!

[newspeak]

39. the telephone companies do not have to sell your data

the government can listen without a phone company's knowledge, thus no warrant. So, those who think Qwest did not sell out--if a federal mandate forces a telephone company to comply with installing devices or software, where said agencies can listen to your conversations without the company's knowledge--how can a phone company demand a warrant before such information is given-if said agency can directly access the information?

[EFerrari]

41. I think you're probably right. And, the NSA would rather

have a telco buffer in case the manure hits the rotating member.

[newspeak]

42. over three years ago CALEA was initiated

ALL telecommunications had to comply. Let me re-iterate HAD TO COMPLY--and that means Qwest, too. I believe the smaller companies have two more years to comply. Please google CALEA--federal agencies basically have access to conversations without the direct assistance of telephone company personnel--so, if they have access, why would they get a warrant to obtain said information?

[Up2Late]

44. Here's an excellent audio report and website that explains what...

...we are talking about here. The audio is based on Robert O'Harrow, Jr. book "No Place To Hide"

From the web site.
"Mr. O'Harrow is a reporter on the financial desk of the Washington Post, where he created a beat covering information technology, marketing and privacy. O'Harrow was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for a series of Post articles in 2000 on privacy and technology."

This is Data-mining on a massive scale, it has almost nothing to do with this CALEA law this other person is talking about (CALEA is a 1994 law btw).

<http://www.noplacetohide.net/>

Info on CALEA
<http://www.askcalea.net/>

[EFerrari]

46. Thanks, Up2Late! n/t

[Up2Late]

43. Did you read the USA Today article at all? Because nothing that you have

...written here is even remotely related to this case.

This is not about phone tapping, this is data mining ALL the data from every phone call since about mid-2002, which takes a hell of a lot of Computing power, and that don't come cheap.

This is NOT a narrowly focused ease-dropping on a few hundred people. They did this "Under Contract" with the phone companies, and if you go to the last page of the article, you can read the part were Qwest decided NOT to cooperate with the NSA, because they refused to follow the law, as the Qwest lawyers requested.

Here's the links to the article and the original DU post:

<http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA>

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2276110>

Here's an additional clip to the clip in the original post, the article is about 2 1/2 pages printed.

...From the USAToday article

NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

Updated 5/11/2006 10:38 AM ET

By Leslie Cauley, USA TODAY

(clip)

One company differs

One major telecommunications company declined to participate in the program: Qwest.

According to sources familiar with the events, Qwest's CEO at the time, Joe Nacchio, was deeply troubled by the NSA's assertion that Qwest didn't need a court order — or approval under FISA — to proceed. Adding to the tension, Qwest was unclear about who, exactly, would have access to its customers' information and how that information might be used.

Financial implications were also a concern, the sources said. Carriers that illegally divulge calling information can be subjected to heavy fines. The NSA was asking Qwest to turn over millions of records. The fines, in the aggregate, could have been substantial.

The NSA told Qwest that other government agencies, including the FBI, CIA and DEA, also might have access to the database, the sources said. As a matter of practice, the NSA regularly shares its information — known as "product" in intelligence circles — with other intelligence groups. Even so, Qwest's lawyers were troubled by the expansiveness of the NSA request, the sources said.

The NSA, which needed Qwest's participation to completely cover the country, pushed back hard....

(clip)

...In addition, the agency suggested that Qwest's foot-dragging might affect its ability to get future classified work with the government. Like other big telecommunications companies, Qwest already had classified contracts and hoped to get more.

Unable to get comfortable with what NSA was proposing, Qwest's lawyers asked NSA to take its proposal to the FISA court. According to the sources, the agency refused.

The NSA's explanation did little to satisfy Qwest's lawyers....

(more above and below this clip) <http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA>

[Scout1071]

40. Our fucking money. Of course it is....they would never use their own.

We are getting absolutely screwed all the way around.

Enough is fucking enough.

[Up2Late]

45. kick n/t

:kick:

[AnnInLa]

49. Two things:

Last night, Randi and Ed claimed that this had been going on since before 9/11, not after that date.

These are the companies that want favorable action from the gov't to control the internet...think net-neutrality.