Home evicts 75-year- old amputee, smoker

[The Straight Story]

Home evicts 75-year- old amputee, smoker

By ED KEMMICK
Of The Gazette Staff
Besides being bad for your health, smoking can get you evicted from your home. That was the lesson learned Monday by JoAnn Clemons, a 75-year-old woman who had a leg amputated last August.

Since then, home for Clemons has been the Aspen Meadows Retirement Community at 3155 Ave. C, owned and operated by Billings Clinic.

She was informed by letter on Monday that she is being evicted for violations of Aspen Meadows' nonsmoking policy, which prohibits smoking anywhere on campus, including the driveway, parking lot and interior sidewalks. She was told to clear out by June 7.

Clemons insists that both times she was supposedly found to be in violation of the smoking ban, she was on public property, once on the city sidewalk just beyond the Aspen Meadow campus, and then actually in the street beyond the sidewalk on Saturday, when she is said to have committed the violation that resulted in her eviction notice.

http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2006/05/11/news/local/25-eviction.txt

We will teach people to conform. They must obey. They will be assimilated...

[mike_c]

1. oh for pete's sake....

This is news in Billings?

[bluestateguy]

2. If the anti-smoking Nazis have their way this is what we will come to

Most of the anti-smoking fanatics are Lexus liberals, people who vote Democratic, but still have a fundamentally ruling class, elitist world view. They tend to be very nanny statish in their politics. Just watch, these people will be the first ones to say that public housing should be "reformed" by banning smoking in the apartments.

[xultar]

4. What about the oxygen tank dangers?

[The Straight Story]

7. They could accomodate people outdoors

like they do for us at work. And as they do at the hospital I was at a few weeks back. Doctors could walk out the side door, sit under an umbrella, and smoke away (and they did, we had some interesting discussions and they all agreed a bar at the hospital would be nice).

[TahitiNut]

10. Outside on a public sidewalk?

nonsense. Why not claim smoking within a mile of a gas station or an autmobile containing gasoline is a hazard?
:eyes:

[etherealtruth]

20. Of course it's a safety hazard ....

I am SURE that "they" don't have kitchens in that facility ... open flames on gas ranges would ignite all those oxygen concentrators ... or NOT.

I'm old enough to remember people smoking while using oxygen (not that I would recommend that/claim it was safe) ... obviously safety is not the motivator here.

[TahitiNut]

43. I wonder if candles are outlawed in the entire facility.

Birthdays must really be boring there. :eyes:

[meow2u3]

56. Most nursing homes ban candles

especially in the residents' rooms. Candles pose a fire hazard in general, and can be life-threatening to nursing home residents in particular. These people are typically moderately to severely disabled and lack the mobility to escape a fire in their rooms.

In Pennsylvania, it's illegal for nursing home residents to smoke and/or carry any open flame indoors. They have to take the smoking outside.

[lapislzi]

78. They need a designated smoking area

Simple. Is it possible that not a single staff member is a smoker? What about visitors? More nonsense!

[mongo]

11. I'm sure that she was a fire hazard

while STANDING IN THE FREAKIN' STREET!

any excuse is a good one, right?

[xultar]

18. Dude we don't know what else has been going on there. You don't

know if they caught her somoking in other places. They have 100s of lives to be conerned about not just hers.

Since it is no smoking they don't have proper recepticals. What if she sets the grass afire? Don't be so one-sided you don't care about the others in the home.

[TahitiNut]

30. Based on the same 'logic' they can just throw everyone out!

"we don't know"! Omigawd! "we don't know"! Be afraid! "we don't know"! Scary! "we don't know"! Kill the witch! "we don't know"! It's the devil's work!

:eyes:

[mongo]

46. "one-sided"?

pot meet kettle.

[Lance_Boyle]

45. minimize them.

Freakin' *hospitals* allow smoking in patient rooms with appropriate Dr's orders to permit it. This is nanny state bullshit.

[lastliberalintexas]

62. Truly? Where would that be?

I've not heard of any hospital in recent times which would even consider allowing patients to smoke in their rooms, so I'm rather curious about that.

[Lance_Boyle]

72. Kings County Hospital/SUNY Health Science Center - Brooklyn, NY

n/t

[genieroze]

79. Not in my state. Doctors can allow you to go outside to smoke.

In my state you can't smoke in ANY indoor public place with the exception of cigar bars. They are trying to ban smoking in cars even if there are no kids in the car. They say it's a distraction and they do have a cell phone ban but I always see people yapping away and swaying all over the place. They are looking for another reason to pull you over and make some buck$.

[lastliberalintexas]

60. Utter bullshit

I am one of those anti-smoking Nazis, I guess, since I have no desire whatsoever to breathe in the toxins from someone else's vile habit. I am not in the least bit nanny statish- if you want to kill yourself go ahead. I think that all drugs should be legalized, I believe that one should be able to ride a bike sans helmet or in a car sans seatbelt, I think one should be able to possess any sort of gun s/he desires, and I believe that prostitution should be legal. There are probably other so-called victimless crimes that I am forgetting, and I think the government should stay the hell out of people's lives. What you do by yourself or with other consenting adults means jackshit to me.

So long as you don't hurt others (or are least hurting other adults in a consensual setting of S & M) I could really give a flying fuck what you do in your life.

But there is no way for your smoking to not involve me. I breathe in the toxins as 2nd hand smoke, I can smell it on any smoker, her/his clothes and breath, and it is medically irritating to me. And I don't even fucking have asthma. I can't imagine how bad it is for someone with lung ailments to be around smokers. A hooker turniing a trick, a biker driving recklessly without a helmet or John Doe dropping acid has zero effect on me or others. It's just too damn bad for smokers that their actions do impact people around them, and that those people have rights as well.

You can smoke in your house, in your car and in your clubs- just not around me. Because, trite as it may sound, your rights end at the tip of my, ahem, nose.

[northzax]

73. so you support the legalization of all drugs

except those you smoke? the sweet, acrid burining plastic smell of crack is much more offensive than cigarette smoke (and marijuana gets everywhere)

[lastliberalintexas]

81. No, I support the legalization of all drugs

just as I said in my post. However, I neither want a nicotine nor a pot smoker anywhere near me when they are smoking or even immediately thereafter.

It used to be common courtesy, and the vast majority of smokers used to understand this. Unfortunately, it seems that many (NOT all) smokers nowadays think they ought to be able to blow the blasted smoke into someone else's face. Some (again, not all) smokers are their movement's own worst enemy.

[lapislzi]

85. You're wrong about some of that

Some of the behavior you describe could affect you quite severely.

If you collide with an unhelmeted biker, your insurance will certainly go up. If enough unhelmeted bikers are severely injured or killed, the whole risk pool changes. Same with seat belts. Frankly, I don't wish to pay for anyone else's stupidity.

Someone using drugs can cause an accident as easily as a drunk. I don't want to die because of someone else's stupidity.

Like you, I believe drugs and prostitution should be legal--with limits. You can't assume your behavior doesn't endanger other people. It just might.

These behaviors all carry risks both for the practitioners and for those around them--not just smoking.

Regarding smoking, you are of course free never to associate with smokers. However, permitting smoking within designated areas is, I think, a reasonable compromise.

[lastliberalintexas]

89. Not really

Motorcycles are pooled into designated insurance groupings, and the rest of us aren't affected by their driving habits. My insurance will only go up if my collision with a biker (or any other driver) is my fault. If the biker is at fault, nothing happens to my insurance. Anything else is just the insurance company being its true and normal self- a predatory underregulated asshole corporation.

Yes, I do agree that one's conduct can be regulated if one intends to operate a motor vehicle after indulging in alcohol, pot, crack or heroin. Again, only because of the very real likelihood of danger/injury to others, though- not because of the potential danger to one's self.


I think that a designated smoking area well away from a building entrance is fine. It allows smokers to partake and allows non-smokers and those truly affected medically by cigarette smokoe to avoid the area. I don't think that people should be prohibited from smoking at all (whether it be nicotine or the wacky weed). And as I said in another post, if this lady truly was off campus, then I think that the facility is overreacting.

I was just responding to the idea that an anti-smoking Lexus liberal Nazi like me was in any way a nanny stater. :)

[SidDithers]

69. It's nicotine stained, stinky smokers you need to watch out for...

Most of the anti-smoking fanatics are Lexus liberals, people who vote Democratic, but still have a fundamentally ruling class, elitist world view. They tend to be very nanny statish in their politics. Just watch, these people will be the first ones to say that public housing should be "reformed" by banning smoking in the apartments.

Most of the pro-smoking fanatics live in trailer parks. They are people who vote Democratic, but still have a fundamentally selfish, I-got-mine-and-screw-everyone-else world view. They tend to think that the government is out to get them, and are the first ones to say that public housing should be outlawed, because people should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and learn to get by.

Sid

[xultar]

3. With all thos fuckin oxygen tanks on campus. They need to be harsh

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. That is a valid point, but if she was off-campus, they are overstepping

their authority.

[xultar]

6. Well of course she's gonna say she was off campus. I'd lie too.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Well, without impartial eye witnesses, not sure who to believe.

[xultar]

15. Zactly...so why beat up on the home? I know why the Home did it.

I couldn't imagine having smokers in a home....sometimes they sneak and smoke in the bed and shit. One spark and the whole joint will go up. They are taking a hardline that could save some lives. I can't fault them for that. If you had a relative in there I don't think you'd fault them either.

[mongo]

14. And because she's a smoker

she must be lying!! Wow.

Does all the goosestepping get tiring after a while?

[xultar]

16. NO WHAT THE FUCK....Because she's LOSING HER HOME...I'd Lie

to keep my home too. Did't I SAY I'D LIE TOO AND I'M NOT A SMOKER!!!! I THINK WE ALL WOULD.

GIVE ME A FUCKIN BREAK DEARIST. YOU KNOW NOT WHAT YOU TYPE.

[mongo]

48. And you are making up parts of the story that are not there

to fit your comfy world view.

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. She was OUTSIDE on the SIDEWALK and IN THE FUCKING STREET!

she was on public property, once on the city sidewalk just beyond the Aspen Meadow campus, and then actually in the street beyond the sidewalk on Saturday

GeezusKRIST. This shit is RIDICULOUS.

[xultar]

21. No proper smoking resepticals means possible fire danger on the

grounds.

Do you have relatives in a home who can't fend for themselves. I do. A fire outside my grandpas complex would be devistating...in his alzhimers condition he'd easily get confused and stuck and burned the fuck up.

Nice to see we give a shit about the others in the home too.

I can't believe this is a Liberal Board. Where have all the fuckin liberals who care about the many above the few gone?

[Rich Hunt]

26. Thanks

I haven't seen much evidence that it's a "liberal board" lately.

(shut up Bill....)

[seabeyond]

31. are you serious my gawd we are all so f*in incompetent, why

havent the smokers just burned down all of earth.......

hey you are in the most absurd argument i have seen on the board, then resort to implying people dont care about the others in the home, as you are obviosuly so far out on this one. your argument could not reach any more outrageously ridiculous.

your fight is with smokers. period. you dont give a shit what the story is about. the battle is the smoker. are you to the point of lining them up yet????

btw knock knock, ... i am laughing on this ne. do tell, where is your sense of humor

[xultar]

So you think this is about you? This isn't about you. You livin in a home?

[seabeyond]

38. no, i think this is about a bunch of people so busy trying to dictate

how the world must be that they cannot get beyong to live their own f*in life.


we have gone beyond being a reasonable person. but your argument is just simply not reasonable. then if people dont agree with you (kinda like the smoking agenda) you have the audacity to decide they dont care for their fellow man. f******

see a consistancy in behavior. a character. must be your way, the only way. same in htat thread we met up in the other day now that i think about it

[TahitiNut]

32. The last time I heard, "liberal" meant protecting minority liberties ...

... from a tyranny of the majority. The last time I heard, that's why "democrat" and "liberal" are two different words and that's why I call myself a "liberal democrat." There's a little (out-of-print) book by Henry Steele Commager entitled "Majority Rule and Minority Rights" that's very good in dealing with exactly this issue. The Bill of Rights is appended to the Constitution for this very reason. God help us when it's removed.

[xultar]

33. The RICH IS A MINORITY...You protecting them?

[TahitiNut]

39. Absolutely.

There is nothing inconsistent in my stance. I do not advocate criminalizing wealth. At the same time, I do not advocate giving preferences to wealth and taxing the ("investment") income derived from wealth at half the rate as income derived from one's own labor!

It's total nonsense to equate the elimination of a narrow privilege as any kind of tyrranny - when it's the narrow privilege/entitlement itself which is tyrannical!

[napi21]

41. So PUT A PROPER RECEPTICAL OUTSIDE!

I agree, this is the effect of the damn anti-smoking nazis! And if this is the liberal stand, I guess I'm NOT A LIBERAL!

[Bake]

59. I have emptied ashtrays into garbage cans.

Flipped burning butts in the grass. In the fall. Into piles of freakin' dead leaves.

Never started a fire. NEVER. I've even TRIED to start a fire in the grass with a burning cigarette (not as an arsonist, but to settle a similar argument).

Your argument about the grass fire is a straw man. (Come to think of it, I've never burned up one of those, either.)

She wasn't indoors. No need to worry about the oxygen tanks. If so, then the kitchen would be a bit of a problem too. I know what, let's just starve 'em all to death, for their own good, so they don't die in a fire. She WAS (a) outdoors, and (b) not on their property.

My guess is they wanted the bed for a private-pay patient.

Bake

[MadHound]

50. Sorry, but she's outside, on a sidewalk, in the street

Frankly her chance of lighting an O2 tank up is about as much as the car going by doing so, zip, zero, zilch.

[AngryAmish]

12. People love to boss others around

it is the totolitarian impulse that drives people, in their vast smugness, to declare that they know what is best for you.

Anti-smoking folks just like to boss other people around.

I'm surprised that the people evicting her didn't declare that they were doing it for the children. That is the usual canard.

[TahitiNut]

34. She was sapping their vital juices.

:eyes:

[lapislzi]

13. I have some experience with this...

If they admitted her as a smoker, then she should be grandfathered into the facility (regardless of whether she was on their property or not). At least that's the law in NY; don't know about MT. I had to fight tooth and claw for my dad's (and other residents') smoking privileges. His assisted living facility tried to evict him several times for just that--smoking outside the building.

I hope this lady has someone advocating for her. In NY there's an ombudsperson who handles these things, but someone has to get them involved. They will go to bat on behalf of the senior.

[xultar]

17. Aren't you concerned about fires? Other people who aren't so careful?

I'd be horrified with all those Oxygen tanks.

[lapislzi]

23. They were only allowed to smoke outside

and far away from the rest of the residents. There was a hardcore little clump of them who would hang outside in all weather. They usually had an aide (also a smoker) supervising them. Nobody with oxygen went near the smoking area. And never, ever was smoking allowed indoors.

Sadly, my dad's dead now, but I buried him with a pack of smokes and a pint of whisky.

I think the designated smoking area actually made it more safe...nobody was lighting up inside, and everyone knew where to go for a smoke.

They are not admitting any more smokers. When the last one dies or moves out, the facility will be 100% nonsmoking. But honestly, I couldn't force my old man to quit, not after 60 years of smoking. Better to have him doing it in a supervised setting (and let's face it, he was smoking much less because nobody wants to suit up in a parka and boots during a snowstorm just to have a smoke).

[napi21]

42. OH REALLY? Outside!!!! I doubt you're being honest with yourself.

If people have ocygen tanks, are you saying they can NEVER go anywhere? Hmmmm

[lapislzi]

71. All I can tell you is what I observed

The people with oxygen tanks did not go near the designated smoking area. The smokers were not allowed out of their area.

Most of the people with oxygen tanks (at this facility) hardly left their rooms, much less went outside, and always in the company of a staff member. Now, I wasn't there 24/7, but that it what I observed. Make of it what you will.

[JHB]

83. He wasn't responding to you...

He was responding to the same post you were.

[xultar]

19. DUers in this thread don't give a shit about the others in the home

Doesn't sound to liberal or progressive to me. 1 Smoker against the lives of MANY in a confined campus with oxygen tanks.

YEah.. OK. I get it.

[BlueJazz]

22. I know I don't give a shit about them..in fact if it were up to me..

.I'd burn the whole Damn place down.

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Yeah those smokers are REALLY dangerous

when they are OUTSIDE!! We all know that smoke might travel into the facility and cause an oxygen tank to catch on fire.

[lapislzi]

27. OK, xultar...you need a quick course in nursing homes

Yes, it's a confined campus.

The residents are also heavily supervised (especially the ones on oxygen).
Designated smoking areas are just that: designated. Almost always outdoors, and far from the building. Some are not even wheelchair accessible. You have to WANT to go to them. They are also where the staff go to smoke, so there is usually supervision.

Now, if this woman was admitted to the facility as a smoker, then the institution doesn't have a legal leg to stand on (at least not in NY). At the very least, if they want her to leave, they have an ethical obligation to find suitable accommodation for her.

[xultar]

37. Well apparently they do. She has been evicted. WE don't know

what else is going on so why are people appalled @ the Nursing home?

I'm just bringing the otherside just like a concerned person with a relative in the institution.

So until you know that she didn't have the right to be grandfathered there isn't anything you should be pissed @.

Wedon't know if she has been caught smoking on the inside. They can't release it because it is a privacy issue I'm sure.

If that place caught ablaze what would your comments be on that? Oh well?

Puhleez.

[lapislzi]

49. Believe it or not, this also happened in the place where my dad was

There were 2 or 3 small fires while he lived there. My father was accused of setting them accidentally because he was known to be a sloppy smoker. They couldn't prove anything; neither could I. He swore up and down that he never lit up indoors.

The facility was not willing to help relocate him to another smoking facility. They didn't want to lose the monthly $$$ (he was private pay with an aide--big bucks for the residence, minimum wage for the poor aide). So a compromise had to be reached.

To you, concerned relative of resident, I would say what I said to other concerned relatives of residents: they can smoke safely outdoors with supervision. Keep the oxygen tanks far away from the smoking area. Let the staff hold the matches. IMO, it was a non-issue. Of course, if you read my other posts, you'll know that they had other reasons for wanting to evict my dad. This place probably has other reasons for wanting to get rid of this lady. Smoking's just a convenient excuse to pick on someone who's a pain in the ass, or costing them money, or has an annoying daughter (me), or whatever.

Peace to you. (I'm a nonsmoker, by the way!)

[The Straight Story]

44. More of this story:

After being reprimanded several weeks ago for smoking on the sidewalk, she said, she was careful to smoke in the street. As she tells it, she was wheeling back to Aspen Meadows on Saturday, nearing the side door leading to her room, when she was confronted by an employee who asked her if she'd been smoking. Clemons said she said yes, and the woman went inside. Clemons said the next thing she knew, she was being evicted.

"I don't smoke but maybe one cigarette a week," she said. "I am not addicted to cigarettes. I smoke to relax."

[SoCalDem]

24. Obviously, she is an evil person and they should euthanize her

It would be the "best" for society







:sarcasm:

[TahitiNut]

55. Where are the leper colonies when we need 'em?

Internment camps for smokers! :puke:

[Rich Hunt]

28. this is just so sick

The fascists do this shit all the time, and the government is helpless.

And the fascist sadists who do this shit and laugh take it as permission to abuse the elderly some more.

Case in point: my mother is in a wheelchair, she took a county bus for the disabled to another suburb. The strap securing her wasn't doing its job and came loose. She yelled for the bus driver to stop so that she could secure her chair. He ignored her and veered around corners, drove recklessly, etc.

She called to report it and found the driver was politically "connected". Nothing was EVER done to address the situation.

I mean, our society treats the elderly and disabled like shit and nothing is done about it. This is what the Nazis did - how is our society any different from the Nazis? Why is Nazism such a taboo word, when some of these 'officials' behave the same and appear to enjoy treating people this way? IT'S THE SAME SHIT.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. What A Bunch Of Morons. Controlling MF'ers. They Should Be Ashamed Of

themselves.

[seabeyond]

35. bad for your health, = 75-year-old ..... n/t

[lastliberalintexas]

63. My grandfather was 84 when he died of mesothelioma

By your logic I guess asbestos fibers aren't bad for your health, either, eh? :eyes:

[genieroze]

80. My dad died from asbestoses and he didn't smoke. He quit like 30

years before.

[lastliberalintexas]

82. My grandfather was a non-smoker as well

I was simply pointing out that longevity certainly doesn't mean that people aren't exposed to some nasty shit during their admittedly long lives.

[lapislzi]

36. This is exactly what I went through with my father

Also an admitted pain in the ass. His assisted living residence would have loved a pretext to get rid of him (and me, by extension). Too bad. He was grandfathered in as a smoker. I made sure of it when he was admitted.

We eventually reached a compromise with the staff. Even though my father was mentally OK, he still was required to go to a staff member for a lighter if he wanted a smoke. Then the staffer (usually his assigned aide for the day) would accompany him outside to the smoking area while he had his smoke.

My point is, everyone can be accommodated. It doesn't need to be a safety issue if it's handled right. I think something else is going on here. Are you telling me that there were no smokers on staff? Absurd. They want to get rid of this lady and are using smoking as an excuse.

[TahitiNut]

53. My mother was in a nursing home for 3 months (after hospitalization).

She's a pack-a-week 'smoker.' She's a person heavily reliant on habit and daily rituals. She has a cigarette after dinner and before going to bed at night. The nursing home had 'smoking areas' outside the front, side, and rear (loading dock) entrances.

As she became more and more insistent on having a cigarette, I used that as 'leverage' to get her on her feet and able to walk assisted to the elevator. It was one of the more 'successful' parts of her recovery - recovery enough to live at home. It's been three years, now, and she's still healthier (with occasional kicks in the butt) than when she was in the nursing home.

[lapislzi]

57. Congrats to you...

She is lucky to have you kicking her in the butt!

Smoking was the only pleasure left to my dad after he damn near drank himself to death and an esophageal condition sentenced him to a boring diet (and I hardly think he and the ladies were getting it on after lights out, but maybe I'm wrong). I was determined to protect that for him. He's gone now, but I'm not sorry I did it.

[Horse with no Name]

40. If she was caught smoking in the facility

Generally all you have to do is threaten patients that the fire marshall will be called and they will be fined HEAVILY for her failure to comply.
That generally stops that type of smoking.
To address another problem though...that unless there are city ordinances against smoking in public places, this home really doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Most residence homes have a smoking area for their residents because, regardless of the fact that they are in a type of custodial care, they still have civil rights. The way it is generally worked is that the home keeps the cigarettes and lighters locked up (with the residents names on them) to protect the safety of the other clients, and has several smoke times during the day that are monitored by staff so that the residents with oxygen, etc. do not wander in the vicinity.
My guess is that the workers do not want to do this.
Smoking in a facility like this is really no different than smoking in your own home. The hospital has centralized oxygen lines that come into each room making for a potentially out of control situation. In this case, they are individual tanks and not difficult to keep out of a dangerous situation.

[KingFlorez]

47. It's hazardous to others health

Especially in this type of facility. It seems as if some people are more worried about the right to smoke than others health. Next people will think it's okay to smoke in hospitals.

[seabeyond]

51. she is smoking out in the street and it is hazardous to others health

do tell?

but good of you to decide that everyone in this thread seeing the ridiculous in this just MUST NOT care about anyone else.

or maybe.... it isnt hazardous to others health.... smoking out in the street..... not around a single person.

[KingFlorez]

58. Secondhand smoke

It's in her clothes when she comes back inside

[Dorian Gray]

64. So now the residual smell of smoke stuck to clothing

is "Second-hand" smoke?

There's no discernable danger from smoke scented clothing. The actual smoke is long gone, and nothing about the smell will cause harm to any of the patients.

This topic is so annoying. People hate smoking and smokers. I get it. And I hate smoking now that I haven't done it in over a year. But, to actually argue for the eviction of a woman who goes to smoke in the middle of the street because the lingering cigarette smell poses some danger? Is that for real?

[KingFlorez]

66. I'm not agreeing with the eviction

I'm saying smoke can be harmful and I don't think no smoking rules are wrong

[Dorian Gray]

94. Well, that you and I can agree on

KingFlorez. I, of course, understand why there are no smoking rules. At the same time, I would think that if an adult were to smoke off property, the home wouldn't be able to evict the person.

Regardless, this is a sad case. I wouldn't be surprised if the woman were actually sneaking some smokes on site, and that's why there is this problem. But, that's just conjecture on my part. If the biggest complaint is that she still smells like smoke, then that's certainly not a valid reason for evicting her.

[lastliberalintexas]

67. You don't have asthma or any other lung ailment, do you?

My mother does, and even the smell of smoke which lingers on someone after they indulge can set off an asthma attack.

Though I'm not arguing that smoke scented clothing is grounds for eviction. Just pointing out that it really can harm others.

[juajen]

91. Eviction from nursing home for smoking? Perfume sets off my ashma.

I can't go to movie theatres or anywhere where women are perfumed. Also, I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that there are probably many smells in that nursing home that would give me asthma. The smell of garlic also makes me sick.

I used to smoke and the smell doesn't offend me. I also have never tried to get rules passed anywhere limiting the wearing of perfume, etc. Well, you get the idea.

I think that nursing homes should have a group smoke every few hours or so; but, the smoke should be marijuana. I have a feeling this would make for happier patients and a more patient staff. God, I'm so wise.

[NorthernSpy]

92. I do, and I view all this somewhat differently...

My mother does, and even the smell of smoke which lingers on someone after they indulge can set off an asthma attack.

Well, lots of things can trigger an attack. Smoking gets singled out because it's so widely frowned upon. But dust from cleaning, or pollen and spores from a flower garden, or a breath of cold air, or a whiff of solvent fumes or engine exhaust can make asthmatics gasp. The difference is that people who insist upon cleaning, gardening, and driving aren't subjected to the public shaming that smokers endure.

Cigarette smoke is by no means a uniquely potent asthma trigger, as many people are wont to misportray it.

I don't expect -- and don't even want -- other people to give up these little things they enjoy just because I have asthma. Of the social changes that would help me, exiling smokers from public parks does not even make the list.*

Banning that woman from her home because she smoked a cigarette outside is unconscionable. I really don't want to see people with lung disease Shanghaiied for poster-child duty in some campaign to defend the indefensible (not that I took your post as an attempt to do that, mind you).




*What I really want most for myself and other asthmatics is better access to medicine. Currently, the only bronchodilators available over the counter are inhaled epinephrine and ephedrine tablets. More effective bronchodilators with fewer risks and side effects are available only by prescription -- which in effect excludes the uninsured from benefiting from these newer, better medications. In addition to this, other medicines that control asthma and prevent cumulative lung damage are also available only by prescription, even though these medicines have a wide margin of safety, and it is well known that doctors underprescribe them severely.

Asthma morbidity and mortality in the United States have risen not because people smoke in public, but rather because a large percentage of asthmatics have little or no access to medications that could improve -- and even save -- their lives.

[Dorian Gray]

95. I see what you are saying,

but if this woman smoked off property, she shouldn't be evicted. If she is breaking the property rules and smokes on property, then she should be given a warning. If she ignores the warning, she should be evicted.

[TahitiNut]

52. Besides that, she must be a racist, right?

... along with all those in this thread who support her, right?

:sarcasm: <-- clue for the brain-dead

:eyes:

[lastliberalintexas]

65. Um, look upthread

(re: the smoking is hospitals is just dandy bit)

[Spider Jerusalem]

54. Gah. Fucking health Nazis.

I personally think that outdoor smoking bans are completely idiotic; I can understand banning indoor smoking, especially in a place where there's a fire/explosion risk thanks to the presence of pressurised oxygen, but banning smoking OUTDOORS is absurdity. As long as there's no closed air recirculation system and you're not creating a fire risk, there's no logical reason for it (apart from a sort of hyperactive Puritanism, that is).

[Midlodemocrat]

61. I'm with the home on this one.

There are too many people in nursing homes with COPD, emphysema, advanced lung cancer to allow smoking anywhere on the property.

Yeah, she SAYS she wasn't on the property, I have my doubts.

Having had my dad in a facility like this before he passed, I must say that everyone in that facility was caring and decent to all these elderly folks, and it ain't a pretty job.

[lastliberalintexas]

68. Very well said

But of course that simply makes you a health or anti-smoking Nazi. :)

[SidDithers]

70. And a Lexus Liberal too...

Don't forget, you can be an anti-smoking Nazi and a Lexus liberal all at the same time!

Sid

[Midlodemocrat]

76. No Lexus here. I drive a GAS GUZZLING MINIVAN@@@!!!

:bounce:


Because there are seven of us living here. Necessity and all that.

[lastliberalintexas]

84. So where do I report to get my Lexus?

I assume it will be free for a Nazi like me, right? :)

[lapislzi]

74. There is a bigger picture here

Concerning the rights and dignity of all elderly, including smokers. Let me be very clear about this. I hate cigarettes and cigarette smoke. I wished my father would have given up smoking before entering an assisted living facility. Hell, I wish he had given it up 40 years ago. Or never started.

But I did not have the right nor the desire to make that decision for another human being, especially one who had few pleasures left to him at the end of his life. Think about it. The person who has been a homeowner, a professional, a parent, is reduced to nearly a helpless and dependent state: many have been removed from the homes they have lived in for most of their adult lives, often because of an accident or other "incident." Many are angry and depressed about their newly dependent state.

Could you look your parent in the eye and say, "sorry, no more smoking. Period." I couldn't, and I wouldn't.

What's the problem with an isolated, designated smoking area? Keep the O2 far away. IMO, this is a non-issue (except for the poor lady in the article.)

[Midlodemocrat]

75. The problem is staffing and monitoring of individuals who might

wish to smoke.

At the home my dad was in, there were several people, including him, who kept trying to 'escape', because of Alzheimer's. If you had one of these patients who wished to smoke, you would have to have a dedicated staff member to watch him/her so that they didn't wander off.

O2, isn't inherently explosive, it just makes fires burn better, so there isn't an explosion issue, it is more an issue of the health and safety of said smokers as well as those with cardio pulmonary issues.

My own mom smoked until the second to last heart attack. She was totally addicted and was essentially not able to quit. 50 years of smoking will do that to you.

Personally, I can't stand the smell of the stuff, it stops me up instantly. And, I must say, I do resent having to walk through clouds of smoke to enter the store. In NYC a few hotels have banned smoking right in front of the doors, as a courtesy to their non smoking guests.

[lapislzi]

77. Memory impairment certainly adds to the challenges

faced by caregivers. I would argue that in some cases, the patient's condition would dictate that smoking is not a safe activity. A dedicated staffer is one option. In the place where my dad was, he had to ask a staff person for a lighter and then the staffer would go outside with him while he had his smoke (and had a smoke herself).

It wasn't the ideal solution (low dignity factor), but it allowed my dad to continue to enjoy his smoke until the end of his life and it satisfied the facility that he was doing so within bounds.

I don't want people to think that I'm insensitive to the safety issue or the health and comfort of other residents. I would never advocate smoking inside a facility or even in the common area outdoors. But if the smokers are given reasonable parameters, most will stay within those. The memory impaired should be handled on a case-by-case basis--will they remember 5 minutes after they've had that smoke? Can you lie to them and say they just had one? Believe me, having buried 4 old people (2 parents, a grandparent, and an aunt, all but one smokers), I've done it all, and I know all the tricks.

[lastliberalintexas]

86. If we would properly allocate resources in this country

we could do that. Nursing homes should be freaking palaces for our elderly, and instead we force families to stick their relatives in delapidated buildings in which undereducated "aides" (that nice catch all employment term du jour) take the places of nurses and other qualified staff.

In an ideal world, we would do no such thing. But then in an ideal world our schools would be models for the rest of the world too. But no, we must spend another umpteen jillion on defense this month, so no money for such trivial things as health, welfare and education.


If this lady truly was smoking off campus, then I think the home is overreacting. I'm just surprised at the number of posters who apparently think that people should be able to smoke anywhere and everywhere, regardless of smoking's effects on those who've chosen not to participate in the habit.

[lapislzi]

88. Right, right, and right.

Our society thinks elderly people are "icky" and need to be stowed out of sight. I am ever impressed by the kindness and dedication of the residence staff who attended to my father, who was an admittedly difficult patient. These people, mostly women earning minimum wage, were unfailingly polite, patient, and affectionate. I told the owners of the facility (repeatedly, and to deaf ears) that the staff should be earning at least triple their current salaries.

And the smokers should be accommodated within reasonable parameters.

[lastliberalintexas]

90. I'm glad your father had such nice people watching over him

And that includes you, as you probably did more than you realize. So many of the nursing home employees are minimum wage employees with little training and experience- and yet they're expected to handle some rather curmudgeonly (sp?) people. The ladies who took care of my uncle surely have a special place in heaven waiting for them, if there is such a place!

They are underpaid, underappreciated, understaffed and overworked. All the while the facility owners rake in the cash. I guess it's really no different than working in any other sector of Corporate America, now that I think about it. :(

[lapislzi]

93. Can't say it was always a pleasure...

but I always tried to do right by the old coot. I hope the lesson "took" with my daughter...guess I'll find out sooner or later!

The whole "for profit" thing in health care (and insurance, per your post above) is, for lack of a better word, fucked up. Period. The owners of my father's facility were vile money grubbers.

Peace to you!

[porphyrian]

87. Ah, compassion. - n/t

[IdaBriggs]

96. My mother is a landlord, and she rents out rooms in her home.

Her home is "NO SMOKING" but there is another property people can stay in if they are smokers.

She has NEVER had smokers stay there who DON'T try to "sneak" cigarettes in some fashion. They always think she can't tell (like, the holes in the carpet, the cigarette butts, and the horrible smell aren't going to give it away! :eyes: ), but for some MAGICAL reason, she can always "tell" when they've been smoking.

My favorite "idiot smoker" story involved a young lady who was sitting on the deck with a lit cigarette in hand, who insisted she wasn't smoking because "she doesn't smoke." Uh, yeah -- who you going to believe -- her, or your lying eyes? :eyes:

She got booted shortly thereafter because in addition to thinking the "No Smoking" policy had a special exemption for her (sarcasm), she also thought she shouldn't have to either pay rent, or obey the rules of the household when it came to late night / multiple overnight guests, and then she thought she could "blackmail" my mother ... which didn't work. Silly twit. :)

[NorthernSpy]

97. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

... ... ... .

(Oh -- I'm just waiting for the part where you explain how the above anecdote relates to the case at hand. You know, the elderly amputee lady who got kicked out of her flat because she was observed smoking a cigarette while standing on a public way...)

:think: