This NSA thing is a losing issue for us

[wtmusic]

Someone, anyone, please go ahead and say it (it's just a matter of time). After all, 2/3 of the public don't mind. Get over it, already!

Censure, impeachment, NSA, rendition...take your pick. They're all losing issues, as are truth and justice. Cower before public opinion and keep you eyes on Nigeria, immigration, the budget bill, whatever will be the next losing issue for us. If we only act like Republicans enough, the public will elect Democrats. :silly:

I've had it. :grr: :grr: :grr:

:rant:

[Debi]

1. Begala & Carville, is that you? n/t

[joefree1]

2. Cept Bush numbers keep going down ... down ... down

Talk about a loser.

[Grateful for Hope]

3. Good point n/t

[Gabi Hayes]

13. LOVE the latest El Diablo!

[joefree1]

25. Thanks

We didn't get to take the Bush puppet to the recent Bush protest becase we were worried it would rain. The head is empty and only made out of paper mache and ... wait, which Bush am I talking about?

[tabasco]

35. Bwwaahahaha! I just crapped my pants cuz of that Delay pic!

The beard is perfect.

[ShortnFiery]

4. NO! People are outraged, ABC poll was NOT Scientific ...

No, this is the BIGGEST OUTRAGE ... This NSA "spying on average Americans" epiphany will, in and of itself, will bring down the BushBotBorg. :grr:

[wtmusic]

7. If I believed in God

I'd say God Bless You, ShortnFiery! :thumbsup:

(oops, said it anyway)

[ShortnFiery]

22. Thanks ... Back at you

I do believe in God, but studies have show that Prayers, in and of themselves, don't pan out. :shrug:
So instead I'll extend my genuine "good wishes" your way. :-) :hi:

[Cha]

45. I say..."may the Great

Spirit bless ShortnFirey!"..:)

[hatrack]

36. The ABC poll was taken in December of 2005 - it was a canned poll

Rasmussen had it lying around, and they trotted it out six months later as if it would prove something.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x209993#209998

[prairie populist]

44. Here's some backing for Qwest from the Nebraska Public Service Commission

in a press release issued across Red State Nebraska today - it looks like not every public official out here is drinking the Kool-Aid.


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Commissioner Anne Boyle
May 12, 2006

Qwest Telecommunications should be thanked by consumers across the nation for being willing to stand alone as the only Bell that refused to
provide telephone records to the NSA according to Nebraska Public Service Commissioner Anne Boyle. Boyle said, “When the NSA demanded the
information with harsh demands and implied threats, Qwest made a number of reasonable requests to insure that they were not violating the privacy of
their customers. Releasing the records could have led to possible lawsuits and fines.”

Qwest reasonably asked the NSA to obtain a court order. The NSA refused arguing that the court might not have agreed with them. Qwest
then asked for a letter of authorization from the U.S. Attorney General to allow them to legally provide the data. It was not obtained.

Further the NSA told Qwest that their refusal could affect their ability to get further government classified contracts, that they were
unpatriotic as the lone holdout and that they could compromise national security.

Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over proprietary customer information to the government without a written order.

Boyle said, “Qwest’s concerns were legitimate.” Earlier, Joe Nacchio, former Qwest CEO, pushed to use customer proprietary network information (CPNI) for internal marketing purposes. The Nebraska Commission strenuously objected with concerns that the information would be passed within the company to departments that should not have access to private information. Ultimately, Qwest reconsidered. “Regulators
are required to protect the public interest. Protecting private information, especially today, is among our most serious responsibilities,”
Boyle added.

This entire episode raises many more questions and concerns. Billions of personal phone records in government hands are more easily
subject to abuse than if they would have been in the hands of marketers. “The NSA says they are only collecting calling patterns not CPNI, however,
they admit that the information is easily assembled, “Boyle said.”

The NSA, a secret government agency, admitted the records are passed to the FBI, DEA and CIA. It can mine billions of phone calls. Those
records could conceivably be passed internally to the IRS, SEC, USDA etc for investigations or any other reason without citizen knowledge.

We should ask if the other Bells were paid for the information or if they simply handed it over with no questions asked. If paid, was it
properly reported? Were contracts negotiated? If so, what were the terms? Did the NSA obtain records from other carriers? If so, who?

Boyle ended, “No one quarrels with the need to protect our nation; however, overly aggressive actions by the NSA in the name of national
security threatens our freedoms and security from within. I applaud Qwest for insisting on proper documentation before releasing customer proprietary
information in the face of criticism-implied retaliation.

[Dunvegan]

5. The MSNBC and CNN polls said over 70% DON'T want spying.

It's only the ABC poll, which had a skewed question set and only around 500 or so responses that came back with a majority not caring.

People do care.

We'll hear more of that slowly over the next few days.

This may be Blivet's Waterloo.

[ShortnFiery]

15. You're spot on Dunvegan ...

The wording of the poll questions were not balanced. Further the FINDINGS were NOT qualified as such. This is a PsyOps operations ... every Corporate News Media will push it, but it's a LIE. The American People are downright OUTRAGED and this is not going anywhere, anytime soon. Well, unless you choose to TRUST CNN, et. al.? I will NOT trust these Corporate Media Whores, no way. :grr:

[gkhouston]

21. do you find yourself wondering

if ABC got the phone numbers for those 500 "randomly selected households" from the NSA?

[ShortnFiery]

24. Very drool gkhouston, LOL

Like your thinking - probably so. ;) :applause:

[AX10]

6. Busholini's numbers keep on falling though.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. IMHO, I think you've totally lost it.

[readmoreoften]

9. It is absolutely not true.

Other polls have said that 85% of Americans don't want their wires tapped by the NSA. This 2/3rds crap is pure propaganda from the MSM. First of all, over 50% of the country is staunchly AGAINST Bush, how can 1/2 of this 50% be okey-dokey with wiretapping.

[heartofthesiskiyou]

10. That depends if we can focus

on something other then the story they want the public to see.

It's the equipment that provides the prof.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1160626&mesg_id=1160626

edited in link

[Cocoa]

11. would you accept that it needs to be handled carefully?

that's what I think, and I think the public opinion should be considered.

[wtmusic]

37. Not for a minute

IMO every Congressperson should be shouting it to the rafters. Republican, or Democrat. A fundamental civil right to privacy which, if it's not addressed strongly and immediately, will be lost forever.

[aquart]

12. The ABC poll I saw was two to one AGAINST the NSA.

The public minds.

[C_U_L8R]

14. that 2/3 number is bulldada

Do you know a single person who supports it... I don't.
I know there are some out there... but everyone I've seen
is outraged .. normal folks who usually don't care enough to remark..
this seems to be the last straw... people are PISSED.
Vehemently PISSED.

Take the push poll propoganda for what it is....
propoganda designed to diffuse the damage this
issue is causing Republicans.

Republicans - you just can't believe them™

[magellan]

16. I simply don't believe that

All the polls I've seen about the spying showed a solid 3/4 OPPOSED. I don't know how they took that poll they're flogging on air today -- I heard CNN say it was an insta-poll and not very scientific -- but I'm not buying it. People in this country DO care. BushCo is only doing what it usually does: releasing poll data that makes the majority feel like they're in the minority to make us feel impotent and give up.

on edit: spelling, dammit

[Cooley Hurd]

17. 2/3 of the public doesn't understand the issue...

I highly recommend listening to Jonathan Turley, who was on the highest rated MSNBC show the last two nights (that would be Keith Olbermann). His segments were dire enough to make even the most apathetic American shit their pants...

[The Revolution]

20. Exactly

Anyone who doesn't mind the NSA spying doesn't understand it.

[aquart]

18. Only Republicans have an interest in this kind of message.

Why are you propagating it here?

Why are you seeking to demoralize us when the tide has turned in our favor?

Please ask yourself.

[zanne]

19. The NSA wiretaps are based on lies.

Bush has lied to us repeatedly, as the rest of the Republican Party. Why would you believe them now, when they tell you the American people don't care about being spied on? Let's learn something about people who lie. If they lied before, you can be pretty sure that what they're telling you now is also a lie. (And it doesn't matter how "sincere" they look).

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

23. I Agree With You Somewhat

Unfortunately, if you are correct, and our country continues down this road, then there is nothing which can be done to stem the tide, and if my feelings are correct, we will eventually realize, and it will be too late.

Those who were less prepared, will feel like the people left on the Titanic, wondering first what happened to all the lifeboats, and then realizing that the "unsinkable" ship they were on, is doomed beyond comprehension.

Others, like some of us, might see it coming in time to escape, but we would be left to live with the horror of having watching the catastrophe and cataclism left in the wake.

More and more, I think the Titanic analogy is completely accurate. And King george is our captain, not aware of the icebergs in our path. Or aware, but too busy having a drink to care.

[Beelzebud]

26. Go talk to some real people, and then tell me you believe corporate media.

[TahitiNut]

27. Just another reason I'm an anti-partisan independent.

I'm sick and tired of "party line" voting ... which is openly admitted to be distinct from "voting one's conscience." If anything betrays the corruption of partisanship it's that conscience is admittedly contrary to party. Appalling.

[sproutster]

28. Blah -- you believe that ONE poll - when all of the other polls

Are the exact opposite numbers? The people who participated in the news website polls *know* what those outcomes are. As do the telco's. Are you going to believe the spin, or the actions?

[leftstreet]

29. This AOL poll seems more realistic

How do you feel about the government's database of domestic phone calls?
It bothers me 77%
I'm OK with it 23%
Total Votes: 146,029

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060511052409990008&cid=2194

[Twillig]

30. Use of Irony is a losing tactic

It makes us look bad.

:sarcasm:

[redherring]

31. I think you are right

The opinion that most people hold seems to be that this NSA thing is there to protect Americans from terrorists. I don't think people see it as a big issue.

[Quantess]

33. So you believe the media

when they tell us that most Americans don't mind being spied on?
....I have a lovely bridge for sale....

[Dunvegan]

47. So, RedHerring...living up to your name, methinks.

:sarcasm:

[flyarm]

32. bull!!

65,000 VOTES ON MSNBC ONLINE POLL SAYS 85% AGAINST IT!!

don't buy the bullshit propaganda being dished out..Comey and Ashcroft told this white house they would not write warrants for this bullshit...

no spin here please..we get enough on msm !!

this is big and will stay big..when millions file a class action suit!

fly

[wtmusic]

38. I hear you...just ranting

about another thread started not so long ago that bought into the ABC numbers.

WTF. People don't trust their own intuition.

[BuyingThyme]

34. Everything's a losing issue for us, until we find REAL LEADERS.

[sproutster]

39. Perhaps a losing issue, unless we BECOME LEADERS... Every one of us should

count.

I live in the reddest of red - and it is NOT acceptable here.

[LiviaOlivia]

40. wtmusic- read jane Hamsher's piece on Morin and his history

http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/12/bush-league/

The headline blazing across the Washinton Post this morning reads: "Poll: Most Americans Support NSA’s Efforts."

It was written by Richard Morin, and we’ve been down this road before.

~snip~

So before the phone records story even breaks, Morin — who knows absolutely what he is doing — starts polling people who have no idea what he’s talking about and giving it his best shot, tying it to the War on Terra. It works. Today it’s pastered across the front page of the washingtonpost.com like Carol Doda’s bright red lightbulb tits flashing at the Condor Club.

~snip~

But just like clockwork, the chattering class picked up the ball and ran with Morin’s meme. Said JWR here in the comments this morning, "Surprise! Juan Williams just cited that WaPo poll in asserting that the American people are A-Ok with illegal domestic spying." And Howie Klein writes from the road, "I’m sitting in a hotel room in NYC and CNN has repeated those numbers every 20 minutes since I woke up. Everyone one of the talking heads they bring on to comment, cites it. I can only imagine what Fox must be making of it."

This was a carefully run PR campaign that depended on the full cooperation of the cocktail weenie set. They’re run it before, they’ll run it again, and long after people have started listening to Joe Scarborough and Jack Cafferty and deciding they feel quite uneasy about this, the poll will still be quoted. And it might have its desired effect: make Democrats fearful of going on the attack. Amazing that could happen with a President at 29%, but they’ve managed to bully key Democrats into the crouch position with regard to impeachment, it just might work here too.

~snip~

[wtmusic]

42. just did, thanks nt

[zulchzulu]

41. To give up so quickly on this issue is to throw away the Constitution

I don't care if 90% of Americans think it's OK. It's time to take it to the streets.

[SammyWinstonJack]

43. I don't for one minute believe that 2/3 crap! Just because the

corporate owned media whores push those #s, doesn't make it true. They lie as much as the ** maladministration does. It's not like they have an agenda, or anything, like that. :rofl:

[tigereye]

46. I dunno

all the papers I have seen have a pretty large headline regarding this. I don't think it's going away.