From a BUJEW....The Da Vinci Code

[serryjw]

I know NOTHING about Christianity. I find it fascinating that BILLIONS actually believe that the premise of DVC is false. Jesus was a 33(??) year old Jewish carpenter. That was middle age back then. Can we assume that he was married and made babies? To me it is a no brainer. I have to assume his descendants are alive. Does anyone NOT believe this?

[still_one]

1. no proof either way

[regnaD kciN]

20. To quote liberal Biblical scholar John Dominic Crossan..

...who is so "liberal" (in the theological, rather than the political or moral sense) that many, and not just fundamentalists, consider him to be outside the Christian faith:

There is an ancient and venerable principle of biblical exegesis which states that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must be a camel in disguise. So let's apply that to whether or not Jesus was married. There is no evidence that Jesus was married (looks like a duck), multiple indications that he was not (walks like a duck), and no early texts suggesting wife or children (quacks like a duck)...so he must be an incognito bridegroom (camel in disguise).

More here.

If even Crossan finds the "Jesus was married" claim hard to swallow, I see little reason to take it seriously.

(I would also add that Jesus being married and fathering children would not, pace Dan Brown, be a stumbling block for Christian faith, either in the fourth century or today. Orthodox Christian theology has always depicted Jesus as both fully divine and fully human, so a Jesus who was a husband and father would not serve to discredit the claim that he was God incarnate. Therefore, there would be no reason for the Church to want to cover up this information. My doubt considering these claims is not based on theology but simple evidence -- for which there is none to suggest Jesus was married to Miriam of Magdala or anyone else.)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Crossan's works are the best explanation of Jesus there are.

At least in my (admittedly limited) studies of Historical Christianity.

As an agnostic ex-Catholic his works brought me to appreciate the teachings of Jesus the man.

[truebrit71]

41. Crossan's book "The Last Week" is a very interesting read...

..puts a different light on many important aspects of that week, not least of which was the bickering amongst the disciples, and the juxtaposition that the "Jesus Movement" presented to the ruling Romans and their wealthy Jewish enablers...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. Thanks for the heads up. I haven't read that one. I'll get it.

I can't say that I "loved" his other books, scholarly, intricate, heavy-going at times, but more informative than anything else on the subject that I've ever read.

[truebrit71]

54. Yup, definitely not "light" reading, but well worth it..

..adds an interesting perspective to the accepted norms...

[still_one]

32. I only stated their was not any proof

most of the books written about Jesus were years after he died, and like all religions have a political agenda

That is what faith is all about. It could never stand up to the rigors or science, which demand evidence and reproducible proof

[still_one]

35. you indicate that their would be "no reason for the Church to want

to cover it up"

It isn't as thought the Church hasn't covered up other things before

I am not implying that Jesus was or was not married, just questioning your reasoning that the Church would not have a reason to cover it up.

[Chemical Bill]

47. In ancient rituals...

a king would be annointed by his queen. And anyway, who provides wine at a wedding? The host (oooh, I made a funny!). ;) As the OP said, a Jew would have been married in his thirties.

No, there is no proof of much in the bible. But we can make a case for Jesus being married. :hi:

Bill

[Clark2008]

51. No publically known truth, that is.

The Church omitted several books of the Bible and has kept them under wraps. And, seven more were eliminated during the Protestant Reformation; however, those seven still appear in the Catholic Bible.

Therefore, there MAY be proof one way or the other, but we're not allowed to see it.

[niyad]

2. first you would have to assume he was more than a myth, like mithras,

whose story predates his, and is virtually identical.

[CoffeeCat]

3. I don't know what to believe...

I saw Da Vinci code tonight.

The ideas depicted in the movie are plausible. So are many other theories about Jesus.

Who know? I sure don't.

I wish I did.

I will say this...the protesters who are so rabidly against this work of FICTION--only add fuel to the suppositions
laid out in Da Vinci---that the Church has a lot to hide and want their secrets buried. I'm not saying that I
believe in the underlying story of Da Vinci. However, it's pretty comical to me that these protesters are behaving in
ways that could be construed as typical of the villains in Da Vinci.

I liked the movie. It was very thought provoking. I loved when Hanks said at the end, "Could it be that to be human...is to be divine?". I loved that...our daily actions--big and small--are often amazing by themselves. And isn't that enough?

I wish I was more of a history buff. I could not tell what was fact or fiction--when historical background was given. I'm more interested in digging up history about the role of the Church now, after seeing Da Vinci.

[niyad]

5. you might want to start with this article about the shameful behavior of

the roman catholic church during the hitler years:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1248661

you might also want to do some research on the inquisition and what are called "the burning times", the treatment of gallileo, and recent scandals with the bank of rome.

In God's Name: An Investigation into the Murder of Pope John Paul I (Paperback)
by David Yallop :
To this end, "In God's Name: An Investigation into the Murder of Pope John Paul I," by highly regarded journalist David A.Yallop is a work of monumental research and importance. The author dares to point a finger at the financial corruption within the Vatican. He names names...Michele Sindona, Roberto Calvi, Lucio Gelli, Cardinal John Patrick Cody of Chicago and Bishop Paul Casimir Marcinkus in Vatican City all coducted illegal activities. And Albino Luciani was determined to put an end to it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0552132888/qid=1148192530/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/103-7045522-8315062?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

[serryjw]

14. Thanks for the references

but I'll pass. I already KNOW of the RC Church and Hitler. I think that what the Church is NOT doing NOW in regards to birth control in a travesty against humanity. Billions look to the Church and Billions continue to die because of their teachings. I became a Buddhist because I hate dogma. I had a husband that sinned every Saturday night BUT never missed Sunday Mass.
IF we all lived the 10 Commandments that would be all the faith we need. RWers are the most hateful bunch I ever want to know.
IF there ever was a Jesus he is turning over in his grave on how his name is taken in vain.

[niyad]

19. the references were actually for two sparkles, who indicated a desire

to look more deeply into the history of this organization.

[Raksha]

4. BUJEW??? I've always heard that word for a Jewish Buddhist

is JUBU!!! Not that that has anything to do with anything.

Not that the opinion of a Jewish Gnostic/Jewiccan (or more likely both) counts for much in this context either, but I agree with you. Assuming for the sake of argument that Jesus actually existed, my guess is that any references to his wife and children were edited out of the canonical New Testament. However, the Gospel of Philip (in the Nag Hammadi Library) strongly hints at a close relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene. The claim is NOT new by any means, and did not originate with Dan Brown.

[serryjw]

9. BUJEW v JUBU

I have heard both, I like the former.

Is there any secular infomation on the life of Moses or Jesus?

[Chemical Bill]

49. I like Graham Phillips.

http://www.grahamphillips.net
He combines historical investigation with speculation, and makes a case for what he says. He doesn't expect anyone to believe blindly. I read "The Templars and the Arc of the Covenant", and "The Virgin Mary Conspiracy" (The Marian Conspiracy) and enjoyed them both. "The Chalice of Magdalene" was a little weak, I thought. And no, I don't make any money if you buy his books. :hi:

Bill

[TahitiNut]

16. I'd have a hard time thinking that Jesus would've had stature ...

... in the community during the "lost years" (the time during which nothing is written about him) and earned the honorific of "Rabbi" (teacher) if he were not married. As a carpenter, he'd be a member of the (petty) bourgoisie, not the proletariat. As such, marriage and children would've been expected. After all, aren't the "family values" of his parents applauded? The New Testament makes a big deal about the importance of marriage and children from the viewpoint of Mary and Joseph. I have a hard time thinking the eldest son wouldn't adhere to those values.

[KittyWampus]

39. the Miracles ascribed to Jesus are in fact what highly advanced Yogis

can actually accomplish. Read Patanjali's Yoga Aphorisms.

Jesus was NOT just a 'rabbi' or teacher. He was a fully perfected "Yogi" if you like. A fully Enlightened Being.

Jesus was NOT the Great Exception. He was the Great Example. But what he accomplished takes much practise.

[hwmnbn]

6. Question .....

Does anyone know what is the name of that contraption that Silas the albino monk used on his leg? You know the one that cuts into your flesh just before you self-flagellate?

I think that is weird.

I know it came up on a thread here but can't locate.

[charlie]

7. Cilice n/t

[magellan]

8. It's called a cilice

Looks like this (from Wikipedia):

[hwmnbn]

11. Thanks and .....

eewwww!!

[magellan]

13. Yeah, looks pretty painful, doesn't it?

The things people do to experience God....

[hwmnbn]

15. Yep, ......

I personally, always thought psychedelics were the way to go. :hippie:

[magellan]

17. LOL! I think Jesus would have been down with that

...being a liberal Nazarene. :smoke:

[alittlelark]

10. It MESSES w/the brains of quite a few relatives.

If they have enough faith they will prevail. I've gotten an e-mail from one who does not know how to extricate..... Advice is all I can give.

[magellan]

12. He might not have been a carpenter either

From a link provided on another thread:

Bloodline of the Holy Grail - Page 2

Christians are taught that Jesus's father Joseph was a carpenter, as explained in the English-language Gospels. But it did not say that in the original Gospels. By the best translation, it actually said that Joseph was a Master of the Craft or Master Craftsman. The word 'carpenter' was simply a translator's concept of a craftsman. Anyone associated with modern Freemasonry will recognise the term 'the Craft' and it has nothing whatever to do with woodwork. The text simply denoted that Joseph was a masterly, learned and scholarly man, and the description was especially concerned with matters of scientific metallurgy.

[camby]

18. A.N. Wilson in his book on Jesus

provides convincing argument that Jesus was not a poor carpenter at all, but was actually a member of a prominent family, who perhaps was a rabbi, but whatever the case was groomed to be a leader. He must have been a terrible disappointment to his family - to have started out with such promise and to have ended up executed as a common criminal. And yes, he very well could have had a wife, probably did.

[magellan]

26. Yes, Laurence Gardener who wrote Bloodline of the Holy Grail

...suggests that Jesus eventually became an ordained priest, or 'fisher':

Apart from eventually becoming a fisher, Jesus was also referred to as the Christ - a Greek definition (from Khristos) which meant the King. In saying the name Jesus Christ, we are actually saying King Jesus, and his kingly heritage was of the Royal House of Judah (the House of David), as mentioned numerous times in the Gospels and in the Epistles of St Paul.

That's where we get 'Fisher King' from. I had no idea!

Gardener also implies that Jesus wasn't executed, as the bible states.

As for Jesus's death on the cross, it is perfectly clear this was spiritual death, not physical death, as determined by the three-day rule that everybody in the 1st century would have understood.

In civil and legal terms, Jesus was already dead when he was placed on the cross, prior to which he was denounced, scourged and prepared for death by decree (excommunication). For three days Jesus would have been nominally 'sick', with absolute death coming on the fourth day. On that day he would be entombed (buried alive), but during the first three days he could, in fact, be raised or resurrected, as he had predicted would be the case.

Raisings and resurrections (apart from the fact that Jesus once flouted the rule with Lazarus) could only be performed by the High Priest or by the Father of the Community. The High Priest at that time was Joseph Caiaphas (the very man who condemned Jesus), therefore the raising had to be performed by the patriarchal Father. There are Gospel accounts of Jesus talking to the Father from the cross, culminating in 'Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit', and the appointed Father of the day was the Magian apostle Simon Zelotes.

I apologize if you or anyone else reading is already familiar with Gardener's take on things -- it's all knew to me and while I don't know how well-researched his work is, I've always suspected that behind the bible are nuggets of truth that have been distorted out of all proportion over time.

I just have to add that the following description of Jesus makes a lot more sense to me than anything I've heard before (and appeals for what should be obvious reasons!):

If the Gospels are read as they are written, Jesus appears as a liberating dynast, endeavouring to unite the people of the region against the oppression of the Roman Empire. Judaea at the time was just like France under German occupation in World War II. The authorities were controlled by the military occupational force and resistance movements were a part of everyday life. Jesus was awaited, expected and, by the end of the Gospel story, had become an anointed Messiah. Interestingly, in the Antiquities of the Jews, Jesus is called a 'wise man', a 'teacher' and the 'King', but there is no mention whatever about about his being divine, as contrived in later 'churchianity'.

While the Dead Sea Scrolls identify the Messiah as the supreme Military commander of Israel, the New Testament also makes it clear that the apostles were armed. From the time of recruitment, Jesus checked that they all had swords and, at Jesus's arrest, Peter drew his sword against Malchus. Even Jesus himself said, 'I came not to send peace but a sword'.

Many of the high-ranking Jews in Jerusalem were quite content to hold positions of power backed by a foreign military regime. Apart from that, the Hebrew groups were sectarian and did not want to share their God Jehovah with anybody else, certainly not with unclean Gentiles (Arabs and other non-Jews). To the Pharisees and Sadducees, the Jews were God's 'chosen people': he belonged to them; they belonged to him. But there were other Jews - in particular the Nazarenes and Essenes, who were influenced by a more liberal, western doctrine. In the event, Jesus's mission failed because the sectarian rift was insurmountable - and the rift is still there today.

Jesus, a liberal religious leader trying to unite his people against an oppressive regime...Stripped of all the sacrosanct Son of God frou-frou, what's not to love? :loveya:

[camby]

58. i agree with your conclusion

I find a more historically realistic Jesus much easier to relate to. Whether either of these historians is 100% accurate is debatable - at this point it's all hypothesis. But each of them throws some light on issues that have always confused me about the Gospels. For example, I never could understand why Jesus declared that people had to be willing to leave their families in order to follow him. It almost implied a similar rift in his own family. Seems to me that he was expected to be the long-awaited Messiah, but somewhere along the way he veered off the path. As you said, what's not to love?

[wakeme2008]

21. I like the pictures of him as a blond haired

Blue eye man.

:rofl:

Do not think so......

[Warren DeMontague]

22. C'mon, he looked just like Rutger Hauer in "Blade Runner"

and he drove a Hummer. A flying one.

[Recursion]

23. Depends

If he was a proto-Essene, then no, he wouldn't have been married. If he wasn't, it seems impossible that he would have been called "rabbi" without being married with kids, right?

[bklyncowgirl]

28. I believe the Essenes practiced celibacy--Jesus may have been celibate

If Jesus was influenced by the Essenes then he may very well have been celibate. Or maybe he wasn't. Maybe his wife was dead. Maybe Mary Magdelene was his wife--or his girlfriend. I don't know and you don't know either.

I don't particularly care either way. It's the man's teachings that I care about and that seems to get lost in all of this fuss about whether or not he was married.

I think that if people's faith is rocked by the possibility that Jesus may have been human enough to have sex and that his descendents might still roam the planet, then their faith, I'm afraid is very weak.

I'm a librarian and last time I checked we were still shelving "The Da Vinci Code" in fiction.

[Hekate]

24. "The Gnostic Gospels" by Elaine Pagels is an excellent source of info

Elaine Pagels is a respected scholar of Christian church history -- and I emphasize the word scholar. She goes where her research (not "faith") takes her, and it often takes her into politics -- in this case, the politics of the late Roman Empire and the early Christian church.

"The Gnostic Gospels" (1979) is a short and very readable book that brings those ancient times to life. I recommend it to anyone with questions about the first couple of hundred years of the Christian religion, particularly the decisions about which writings were to be included in what came to be known as the New Testament, and which were to be suppressed. People who persisted in transmitting the suppressed versions of the Jesus story were labeled heretics and persecuted. As just one difference of opinion, the Gnostics saw God as both Father and Mother. And Mary Magdalene's position among the apostles was very different from the New Testament version.

The world did not have a chance to compare the suppressed material with what we have in the New Testament until the 20th Century discoveries of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the other texts that came to be called The Nag Hammadi Library. (Elaine Pagels uses this material in her study -- all of it is by now available in paperback at Borders and other bookstores, but I recommend reading Pagels first.)

Aside from the mystery aspects of Gnosticism, feminist scholars have unearthed other important information about the structure of the early church. Women were a vital componant of discipleship from the beginning, and when such positions as "bishop" were invented, there were women bishops. How and why this changed is the subject of other studies. Dan Brown is the latest in a stream of modern fiction writers to make use of this material in one way or another.

I'm trying to keep this on-topic as much as possible. I jumped in because I saw so many good comments and questions, and I wanted to let you know that there is readily accessible material.

Hekate

[truth2power]

33. To add to what you said, Hekate...

Those who want to know more about this should read books by Margaret Starbird:

The Woman with the Alabaster Jar
Mary Magdalene, Bride in Exile
The Goddess in the Gospels
etc.

These are in paperback. They have wonderful color prints of various Medieval and other artists. Starbird discusses the symbols in the paintings, which appear to show the relationship between Jesus and Mary M.

There's a plate in "Bride in Exile", Georges de la Tour, Repenting Magdalene. which is the same painting that Disney's Little Mermaid has in her collection of trinkets gathered from sunken ships. (Beginning of the video. It goes by quickly). Starbird's contention is that the Mermaid folktale is a metaphor for the reclaiming of the lost feminine voice. Maybe this is why that video had the Fundies' panties in a twist.

It amazes me that the RCC and others are in such an uproar over the DiVinci Code. This idea has been out there long before Dan Brown's book. Nag Hammadi, Starbird, and of course "Holy Blood Holy Grail". One of Brown's characters' names is an anagram of the name of one of the authors of the latter work. (can't remember which right now).

From the evidence I've seen, I believe Jesus was probably married. So what? No one knows for sure. My feeling is that we have no idea what other scrolls might be hidden in those caves in the desert that will elucidate this matter. Some day, maybe they'll be found. I'm saddened that the young men who found the Nag Hammadi texts took them back to their village and a family member used some of them to stoke their fire before it was discovered how priceless they were.

> > > > > > > >

Aside from all the hoop-la over something that's just now coming into the public domain, but has been out there for nearly 2000 years (for those who have ears to hear, and eyes to see), what's important is the metaphor.

Some say Mary Magdalene represents the goddess of the land and the people. When we disown her, we create a wasteland, as described in the Grail literature. The only way to heal the land is to reconcile the opposites (masculine and feminine).

Think about this in terms of the current horrible state of our country. Everything is out of whack and unbalanced. We have a leader(sic) who struts and swaggers, with a sock in his crotch, and speaks only the language of dominance. It's all about war, destruction and power-over. There's a repudiation of everything feminine. Look at the so-called controversy over the HPV vaccine, for one example. Is it any wonder that we're creating a physical and spiritual wasteland over practically the entire planet?

This is not going to be fixed until we throw these monsters out of our government and restore some balance to our lives and to our psyches. I'm not optimistic, given that the votes will probably be stolen again in '06 and '08. But if we pay attention to the myth-wisdom, it's telling us we better get seriously busy before they destroy us all.


edit> to correct initials for Roman Catholic Church. Geez! Why don't I find these typos before I hit post?

[Chemical Bill]

43. Starbird set out to disprove HBHG, but became convinced. n/t

[truth2power]

52. I know. She was raised RC, and I think

someone pointed her to HBHG and she was shocked at what she read.

In college, many years ago, I used to spend my free time in the library reading about the Grail stories. Then I'd try to work it into conversations, "Let me tell you about the Holy Grail." Predictably, people's eyes glazed over. ;) (P.S. I'm an English major)

I'm a passionate believer in the power of myth. Just found this in my copy of Woman with Alabaster Jar:

" In the ancient world, the balance of opposite energies was understood and honored. But in our modern world, male attributes and attitudes have dominated. It is a short step from the worship of the power and glory of the male/solar principle to 'son worship,' a cult that too often produces a spoiled and immature male -- angry, frustrated, bored, and often dangerous. Eventually, unable to integrate with his 'other half,' the masculine suffers burnout. The end result of the devalued feminine principle is not just environmental pollution, hedonism and rampant crime -- the ultimate end is holocaust." (emphasis added). Starbird ibid, xxii

Hmm..spoiled, immature, angry, frustrated, bored, dangerous. Sound like anyone we know? The power of myth -- I rest my case.

IIRC, Joseph Campbell said, in substance, that when a society loses their myths they go crazy. So, there you go!

[Chemical Bill]

56. Well said.

I use the first Harry Potter as a myth, of discovering one's personal power. Where are the strong feminine myths?

Bill

[Hekate]

55. Thanks for adding and expanding -- so many books, so little time. nt

:-)

Hekate

[Chemical Bill]

42. Pagels was the first I read on this interesting subject. n/t

[Peter Frank]

25. I was a Catholic until my confessional Priest asked me if I touched myself

I felt guilty for lying to him for many formative years; until I finally got that he was the pervert.

This said, the God of love lives in every soul. We all choose where we take our personal inspirations.

[mdmc]

27. I believe both

just to be safe.

[xchrom]

29. gay. jesus was gay -- and john was his s.o.

[Chemical Bill]

44. In the mystery schools there are certainly homosexual rituals.

The yogic and mystery school traditions invoke sexuality for reasons other than pure pleasure. I would believe that someone schooled in those traditions didn't have the same hangups as right wing fundies.

Bill

[peacetalksforall]

30. Catholic Church. Protestant Church. Hollywood. A book and a movie.

This uproar in the Catholic Church is curious. It appears that the movie industry has nearly always produced films that would not offend the Church? I say nearly. Endless films about the devil/satan have not caused too much of a problem for the Church. Murder and sex get a pass. And the uproar over DVC from the Catholic Church makes it appear that the Protestant churches are OK with it.

In this country, we appear to be in a era of discovery in spite of major efforts to keep us dumbed down. We speak nearly every day about how stupid they think we are. But, the more crime coming from PNAC, the more we learn about our country, government structure, leaders, foundations, and most importantly, the law.

Now, someone has written a book that takes in theories that are centuries old. Along the way we learn (a little) about a secret society within the Catholic Church that is not a theory.

The person who wrote the book didn't set up an organization to attempt to make us accept or believe anything. We weren't asked for money. No new laws were created or broken. No money was stolen from us. No one lied to us. No one killed us and our counterparts in Iraq and Afghanistan over their melding of theories. It's just a vehicle for learning. After all, it is the age of discovery.

People who are in the business of influencing mass numbers of people get a little unbent when things break down.

We have a PNAC government that partners with fundamentalists who are trashing our Constitution for their own interests and the Catholic Church is mostly silent. Rights are being stolen and the Catholic Church is silent. Is it because or their Opus Dei complicity with PNAC?

Discovery. Era of discovery. Bad for some who wish to rule. Bad for those who promote mass belief. Good for discovery.
The citizens of this country are in dire straits and the spotlight is being used to focus on the entertainment industry.

[lildreamer316]

34. Achem's razor.

Of course it makes sense. Scary how much sense it makes. Again; I refer you to the HUGE fuss the Catholic church and some others are making. Methinks the lady doth protest too much

[dysfunctional press]

36. i don't.

i don't believe that jesus christ, aka "the son of god" ever existed.

[KittyWampus]

37. Educate Yourself, Jesus Was A Fully Enlightened Being Not A "Rabbi"

If you knew ANYTHING about Yoga and its practise you would know what those who are advanced are capable of.

You would know that the "miracles" written about in the Gospel are things that can be performed by someone who takes the time and effort to practise and perfect such a high level of Understanding and Wisdown.

Jesus was not just a 'rabbi'.

Please consider reading Patanjali's Yoga Aphorisms or even the Dalai Lama (your avatar) sometime.

[Chemical Bill]

45. Please don't think that any one tradition...

has a monopoly on enlightenment. The American Indian vision quest comes to mind. I agree that Yeshua studied more than the old testament, but he was a Jew. :hi:

Bill

[Warren DeMontague]

57. AND he looked just like Rutger Hauer in "Blade Runner"!

He DID!



Educate Yourself, Dammit.

[killbotfactory]

38. Since most accounts of his life were written decades after his death

Who knows?

But a single 30yo guy running around with a bunch of young men would raise eyebrows even today.

[Chemical Bill]

40. I'm with you.

I know enough Jews to know that an Orthodox Rabbi still should be married.

I just found out two things that go together with what you say. I didn't realize that Paul went to Israel only once, and the disciples basically sent him elsewhere ("go away kid, you bother me"?). Then I found out that Paul wasn't married. That could explain his lack of support from the Jews in Israel. He was the one that insisted on teaching to pagans, while the disciples preached to the Jews.

Bill

[teknomanzer]

46. First, provide evidence...

that an itinerant preacher named Yeshua walked around Judea working miracles and healing people and was finally executed by the Roman provincial government for inciting a riot at the temple in Jerusalem. This evidence should come from independent sources...(i.e. not from the new testament and other christian sources) Then, once the reality of this persons existence has been firmly established we can begin to seriously discuss whether or not he was married and had children.

[Kerrytravelers]

48. These same people who are so outraged, these people apparently

are so insecure in their faith that it hinges on a book and Hollywood movie. But, these are the same people who apparently believe they woke up one morning and "decided" to be hetrosexual since, according to their "logic," being gay is only a lifestyle choice.

You know, even if Jesus was married and was a man, what is the big deal?

Personally, I'm a Christian. Even if everything in Di Vinci Code is 100% true, that would not rock my faith one little bit. I happen to believe that perhaps there is something greater than me in the universe. I don't happen to believe that Christianity is the only true interpretation. It appears to me that all religions tend to have the same focus: to live a good life and be kind and loving to others, whether you find this through Christ, Allah, a Pagan Goddess or if you find your own path outside of religion. Anyone who is so insistent that they are the only way and they are right all the time is not only delusional, but mathematically impossible since it is impossible to always be correct! But, this is just by $.02 Take it for what it's worth.

kt

[Orangepeel]

50. Da Vinci believing something wouldn't make it true

I have no idea whether or not Jesus existed or if he did, if he was married or not. I also have no idea whether or not Da Vinci believed this to be the case and hid clues in his artwork.

But, people (not necessarily the OP, but just in general) seem to equate the two ideas. Either one could be true (or not) regardless of the other.