DU apparently is becoming the clearinghouse for hoaxes

[brentspeak]

First, the Jason Leopold/truthout's "Rove has been indicted!" hoax, and today, there's been at least three "US Army Ranger reveals that US troops massacred 200 Iraqi civilians" threads. And yes, the latter has been exposed as a hoax.

But the thing that gets me are some of the responses: in addition to the sane people who question the validity of these "reports", there's a bunch of people apparently willing to accept these extraordinary claims at face value. These individuals are either unbelievably stupid or...

...they're just faking that they believe the stories, hoping to sucker in the more pliable people here.

[onehandle]

1. Ooh! Ooh! Let me start the next one...

Condoleezza Rice kidnapped the Lindbergh baby.

Discuss.

[guinivere]

4. Please provide 50 sources that both prove and disprove that.

Actually, I hears that she has WMDs. Yup. Manufactures them right in her basement. She also owns several Dolly Parton wigs and wears them to parties.

[China_cat]

10. Actually

she arrested Natalie Holloway (sp?) and is holding her at Gitmo without being allowed to contact anybody. All in an attempt to discredit the World Court at the Hague.

[SoCalDem]

16. and gave it to Dick Cheney who promptly

ATE the baby:)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. Suckers bought this one too..... I wish it was a hoax, truly I do.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/fallujah/

[autorank]

3. "Clearinghouse" is not the right term.

It's not a clearinghouse based on two stories. Thanks for saving me the time on the 200 folks. I'll just blow by that. As for Leonard, why should DU take the hit for this. MSM is nothing but an illusion generator. They had weapons of mass destruction as a bogus claim and the NYT of all places was uncritical of Judith Miller in the extreme. How many stories did that "clearinghouse" publish that were false? What was the outcome?

How about this one...Dean story on Drudge taken down. Well, the whole Drudge site is a hoax, used by MSM to cover for the filth that they run about Democrats or true progressives.

We're a public forum, we have the est news on the internet with Latest Breaking News and the rest of the discussion topics are vetted by users.

It's all part of the deal living in a society where the truth gets stretched.

[pnorman]

34. I was planning on a separate reply to the initial posting,

but the above is close enough for me. Frankly, I DON'T share the indignition. This is as good a Marketplace of Ideas as well as news, as I've EVER seen. For every "bum steer" that shows up here, there'll be at least one sceptic, who'll analyze it carefully, and shoot it down as needs be. Others will follow, and something approaching the "Truth" will gradually emerge. And the entire process will most likely take place in relative civility if not amity. And ALL will end up a little wiser. What more can one expect? --- the official Party Line?

pnorman

[ruggerson]

35. I wouldn't call Drudge MSM

I think he qualifies as an internet rumor site, unless he's directly linking to a MSM story.

[FreakinDJ]

5. I often thought of organized dis-information

Even back when DU was examining 911 and all the inconsistencies involved we had a few disrupter's come by and post the most outrageous garbage.

It seemed too well orchestrated to be random to me, but it certainly served to discredit some very legitimate work being done

[brentspeak]

7. People who are tombstoned should have their ip addresses

printed on their respective tombstones. Print a whole list of ip addresses, if need be, because most of trolls post from different computers. Eventually, their real identity will be found out.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

12. Not that effective really

Although I like the sentiment, banning the IPs is not effective by itself.

Dialup sessions change IPs with every session. Broadband connection Ips change occasionally or frequently (depending on their configuration).

Corporate users frequently share the same IP address, so you could have dozens of legitimate and troll users all sharing the same.

While its true that law enforcement uses IP address to identify miscreants, they do it with a combination of IP address and ISP logs.

Even then its not always enough as a mis create will say that someone else in the household may have been doing the deed (i.e. child porn), so what will happen is that law enforcement will stakeout the household and wait till activity is detected AND noone else is home.

[brentspeak]

13. Even when dynamic ip addresses are used

all it takes is contacting the ISP to determine a user's identity. Corporate ips are becoming more machine-specific; it's hard to hide behind them.

Myself, I would just post the ip's anyway. And if a troll is positively identified, webpages outside of DU can be created to let the world know who the troll is.

[Rex]

6. This thread is a lie about a hoax

Now go with me here, the lie is about carefully planted posts about stories being hoaxes, so this lie becomes a hoax in its own right. I'm impressed with the flow of current outrage at the apparent DU 'forum', as said to hold entity status. I need my Spock ears!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

8. can you point me to the thread where it was proven a hoax?

I missed it.

[brentspeak]

9. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1260163&mesg_id=1260192

[Viva_La_Revolution]

31. thanks

this sucks :(

[katinmn]

39. Did you look at the first link? It's right=wing garbage

Proves nothing.

[Jacobin]

11. Vetting has become 'unpopular' here

which will be the end of verification and reliability.

damn shame that the True Believers think it is more important to 'support' their favorite leftie personality than to look for what is reality and what is not.

Damn shame

[brentspeak]

14. Agreed. There's a bizarre rationale that some fans of

dubious internet sources have: the mainstream media has credibility problems; therefore, internet sources are more credible.

:crazy:

[DancingBear]

15. Damn shame indeed

Add to that the labeling of those of us who question as somehow less than progressively pure and you find yourself looking at what can be best described as a left-wing dittohead.

Our side gets it wrong sometimes.

It did with Rove.

The damage is severe, and no amount of magic, groveling, or wishing will make it go away.

[marions ghost]

18. oh c'mon

:boring: the damage is severe? Nah, far more posts have been proven right here at DU than not. No need for all this divisiveness. If DU is a 'clearinghouse' then all posts should be questioned. Duh.

[AllNamesHaveBeenUsed]

30. Yep...

Look at some of the William Jefferson threads. While some are doing the right thing and casting condemnation and/or calling for his resignation, others are focusing on the Republican "culture of corruption." It is almost as if the misdeeds of the right exonerate Jefferson. Wrong is wrong, irrespective of the side of the aisle from which one hails.

[mdmc]

38. Welcome to Du and I love your DU name

this post is pretty much my contribution to these two stories (rove and 200 dead).

Anyway, welcome to DU and enjoy!:toast:

[Asgaya Dihi]

17. We're being too critical

First off, yeah it looks like a hoax. Unless it can be shown otherwise he was probably in the US protesting at a coffee shop instead of in Iraq at the time.

But, I really don't get the need to attack our own over it. They are either unbelievably stupid or part of a plot? Not everyone knows the uniforms and insignia, and not everyone has a military background. Given the abuses in Abu Ghareb, the NY Times story last year about MP's killing a couple and abusing more with leg strikes till the coroner said it looked like the leg had been run over by a truck, and past stories of things such as the Mai Lai massacre it isn't so hard for the uninitiated to think it's possible. With the more recent story of Haditha it's more or less on their minds already.

Some of our best sources in the past either got it wrong or were taken for a ride themselves recently with the Rove thing, Michael Moore has a reputation for being a bit loose with the facts sometimes but few doubt his intent even if they doubt his effectiveness. The biggest danger isn't making a mistake, it's eating our own over it. Use mistakes to improve the process where we can and move on.

[ruggerson]

28. The biggest danger is mistaking advocacy for real journalism n/t

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[genie_weenie]

20. Propaganda War

Every "War" is fought with propaganda. All that needs to be done is to make as many acqusations as possible that way the "enem" must debunk them (thereby wasting his time) or ignore them (Thereby not having the guts to confront the truth) Heads They win, Tails I lose sceniro. Also, the mere suggestion of war crimes is enough to get everyone's dander up.

This has a multiple effect, it clouds the issue with true war crimes (The War itself and the leaders who lied us into it) and incidents like Haditha and second in 1 year everyone will harken back to this bullshit video and say "Remember that video" even if it is debunked a hundred times over.

Propaganda is a wonderful thing.

[KoKo]

21. Woo Hoo....I guess you won't get locked because you didn't stick to

your first sentence. This post has taught me that if one lumps together travesties one doesn't get locked on DU and that's a good lesson.

About the "gullible" people here. It's hard to separate the honestly New/Gullible from the Freeps and Trolls who are up to no good.

There are also honestly skeptical folks...but they are trashed and driven off in favor of the other.

So...in answer to your question...WHO KNOWS? :shrug:

[Maddy McCall]

22. I don't know if it's a clearinghouse for hoaxes...

I think the problem is that so much damage has been done to our nation--and so many DUers are heartsick about it--that they'll believe just about anything if it says that times are changing (Rove indictment) or their suspicions about evil (200 at my own hands) are correct.

I do think that DU should carefully consider the items they read, whether from a leftist blog or a MSM organization. People shouldn't attack others for that.

People also shouldn't "trust" news sources just because they have a left slant.

Objectivity is something to which we all should adhere.

[Llewlladdwr]

23. "Becoming"?

In all honesty I don't think there's that large a community that considers DU an authoritative news source to begin with. Not that this isn't a great place for moral support and expressing outrage and all, but the MIHOP/LIHOP crap alone keeps a lot of folks from taking this place seriously.

[acmejack]

24. That's the way!

there's the "sane people" of which I am sure you count yourself, there's a bunch of "unbelievably stupid people" and everyone else is the "pliable people" waiting to be suckered into believing whatever malarkey is making the rounds of the internet that particular moment.

You really have a lack of respect for the majority of the people here it sounds like. You really figure we're that bad? I readily admit I am not as smart as some of you folks, but unbelievably stupid? Even if you are correct in my individual case I imagine you will be hard pressed to produce an additional 40,000 members as thick or malleable as I am! I generously estimating 50,000 to be as intelligent as you which is almost inconceivable,as I am sure you will agree.

Do you really disrespect your fellow DUers to that extent?

[johnnie]

25. No it isn't

Guess you don't remember the 2004 elections. Every time you turned around something was being said and then found to be untrue after thread after thread of people believing things and people not believing things.

I wouldn't consider the few here lately as any sign that DU is becoming anything more than what it is.

[UTUSN]

26. Well, this is not true n/t

[ruggerson]

27. I don't mind reading posts from internet rumor sites

I think they can be valuable, and some are fairly accurate, others are not.

But they do not replace the MSM, even with all its credibility issues. And that's where some DU'ers make a mistake.

Folks should read information from internet rumor sites with a skeptical eye as to the bias of the particular site.

[Pacifist Patriot]

29. I may be a little too cautious for some tastes, but...

I'm typically of a wait and see approach. Haven't made any comments on either the Leopold story or the Ranger. I just let these things unfold and hope the hoopla reveals the truth of the situation. I will say that I don't think skeptics should be villified for insisting on independent confirmation. The proliferation of misinformation is way too easy to accomplish these days.

[troubleinwinter]

32. Your original post was quite rude.

You imply that all here who did not question the stories are insane or liars or wanting to sucker others.

WTF?! If that's how you truly feel about DUers, I wonder why you are here.

I assume that most DUers are genuine and devoted people. We don't ALL ASSUME that everything we read is bunk. We may assume it's a lie if it comes from the admin., due to experience. We don't ALL have time to research EVERY single story. We don't ALL have PERFECT radar. Stories that are bogus are generally sniffed out, researched and exposed.

But I will tell you that I am DAMNED SICK AND TIRED of the insults directed at DUers over this last week. WHAT THE FUCK is the deal with the need by a few to post endlessly and relentlessly about how stupid/insane/gullible DUers are???!!! There are certainly other places for people who feel that way to go and post.

[Catherine Vincent]

33. What sane people?

".. in addition to the sane people who question the validity of these "reports",

And if you think DU is becoming the clearinghouse for hoaxes then maybe you should disable your account.

[paparush]

36. DU Hoax Thread #58 : Bush acts with Mercy and Kindness

Mildred Fouler of Wachawitchi, FL, affirms that she saw the pResident pick up a kitten and stroke its fur in a kind, gentle manner. The president then handed the kitten to a nice dressed man with sunglasses and a fancy hearing aid.

[Cleita]

37. I think your last sentence is the truer one.

I suppose we could go to Free Republic as a cluster and do the same thing making them look stupid, although I know they don't need any help looking stupid.

[mirandapriestly]

40. DU is being messed with from within.nt

[Moderator]

41. Locking.

Per the DU Rules, please don't post broad brush attacks against fellow progressives, or fellow DUers, because such threads are inflammatory and counterproductive.

Rules in detail:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

Thank you,
Lex
DU Moderator