Why do we ask "why?"

[Mythsaje]

It sounds like a silly question, I know. But reading about another DUer's idolizing of Jimmy Carter touched off a storm of consideration for something that's been percolating in my head for a while now.

Some of it is cultural, of course, but that's often the first step towards the kind of divergence I'm thinking of--like the split between the old hunter-gatherers and those that turned to agriculture and animal husbandry for their survival.

These days it seems to be split into those who want, who crave, more information, and those who prefer it to be spoon-fed to them. The first group not only collects information, but is more than willing to share what they learn with others of their same group. The second doesn't really collect anything--they simply open their eyes and ears to the information that seems to verify what they already believe.

We at DU seem to be in the first group. We want more information. We hunt it down and then bring it back to the fold to share it amongst ourselves. We fight about what this information means, and argue the finer points of reason with one another, while the members of the second group tend not to critically examine anything they "learn," preferring, instead, to swallow it whole and vomit it back ad nauseum to whoever seems receptive.

We go out into the world and try to share our information with members of the second group, with varying degrees of success. Some few of that group, in learning that there is more out there than simply God, football, and fast cars, become infected with the thirst for "more input." They're no longer satisfied by stock answers. Some find their way here. Some do not.

"Conventional wisdom" isn't good enough. We have to ask "why."

Some may argue that it's all the distractions out there that keep these people from questioning, but I don't think that's the case. We ALL have other things going on in our lives. We have jobs, family, other hobbies, favorite TV shows, and other things to think about. But we're also curious. We want to know what's going on, and not only ask "what" but also "why."

I believe this trend transcends nation or race or language or culture. And I find myself, again, asking why.

Any thoughts?

[MadMaddie]

1. What is the saying, "The only thing to fear is fear itself"?

I think this is a great question.....Why? I think because we care about more than just ourselves..... we believe that a team includes everyone including the weak and new players....we are not afraid of the truth...no matter how uncomfortable it makes us....no matter how angry it makes us....we don't go into protectionism mode when something horrible happens we question...why did it happen?

That's the weakness of the other side.....they are afraid of their shadows and of the truth....and the truth is they have used their religion as a weapon....and they are not curious about anything.....they want to sit in their comfortable cocoons....


Curiosity and the Truth will set you free...

"I am not Ready to Make Nice" Dixie Chicks....The CD rocks....

[Blackthorn]

2. Very Interesting ideas...

I don't know why people don't ask why, because asking why is such an inherent process in me to the point where I question everything. And I mean literally everything. It's led me to some amazing theories concerning the current political climate, human history and the universe and existence itself. And for all their extremity, I seems to find that those theories explain things to me much better than any "official" stories do.

I think it's an inherent human need to question, to explore ideas and search for answers that satisfy our personal intepretation of the universe. If you consider it a path, the further you walk, the more you learn.

If I may use 9/11 as an example.

Some people believe the official story. They don't question it. They intepret Dubya's actions post 9/11 based on that. Must be tough.
Some people believe 9/11 was LIHOP. They question it a little bit, and Dubya's post 9/11 actions seem a little clearer.
Some people believe 9/11 was MIHOP. They more than question it, and consequently can see more of Dubya's actions in their true light, and can even start making predictions on where he go further.

That's how I see it. It's an issue of distraction as much as it is of comfort. Some people are more interested in the next episode of Survivor, and some people are afraid of what they'll find if they start to question some things that are currently accepted as true.

[Swamp Rat]

3. Sometimes, when we bring info back into the fold, we get our asses kicked

for bringing back the WRONG stuff. :spank: :D

[Mythsaje]

4. That's because we all question everything...

It's in our nature.

[Swamp Rat]

7. Yep. That's why I don't even believe THEY are human.

;)

[Mythsaje]

9. Or, perhaps, not the same kind of humans WE are...

Divergence.

[Pachamama]

12. Sind die Schweine oder Ratten?

Nein, die sind ganz grosse "Schlangen" oder soll ich sagen "Schwanzen"? :eyes:

Your right...they aren't human....

[Swamp Rat]

13. Eidechsen von der Weltraum

Sie sind auch Arschgesicht Schwanzlutscher Schweinekerl Eselsarschen! :puke:

[neoblues]

5. Perhaps... or I Think... or I Think I Think...

It's that some ask why, and other's either don't care or don't want to know.

Those who don't want to know (how incurious they are)... Well, they've learned enough--they're happy as is and knowing too much more would mean: change. And they're not comfortable with change--it's better just to not know some things... Whether they're conscious of it or not, they behave this way; I suspect some may be aware--but only in the sense that their self-awareness includes having barely stepped back enough to notice that experiencing or learn new things is associated with a sensation or feeling of dread or fear--that they're just barely aware that they'd just rather not worry about--stuff (including trying/learning new things or... knowing why).

That's why so many of that group flock to Religion. It answers everything they want to know--and more. Simple, pat answers. Nice black and white, good and bad answers. That way, they don't have to ask why--in fact, it's positively discouraged. No one should think for themselves, they should think as the 'book' says (AS interpreted by the current bunch of theologists/theocrats) they should think. Pray brother and be open to whatever the Creator of the Entire Universe has decided to personally instruct you to do regarding whatever trivial personal problem you're having this time. Alas, they're not aware just how egotistical it is to think that way. (Sorry, I'm verging on belittling someone's deeply held beliefs, and while I don't happen to think people's beliefs should be beyond question, my intention isn't to antagonize anyone)

Aside...
I'm beginning to think I should print up some bumper-stickers:
"Democrats Think, Republicans Don't"...
That could be...
"Democrats Think, Republicans Don't Think!"
interestingly, it also works (but is less helpful to the Democrat) as:
"Democrats Think Republicans Don't Think!"
which, just by removing a comma, then means that Democrats are of the opinion that Republicans don't think--rather than being a statement that Republicans don't think and Democrats do.

[crizzo5137]

6. y?

[Stanchetalarooni]

8. You are definately on to something fundamental. I'd say monumental.

Where ones attention is focused is critical.
You are tapping into an awareness of a higher order of how the mass of humanity works.
These mechanisms have always existed within the human species. It is just so much easier to notice now in this information age.
I appreciate the way that you think. I ponder these same mechanisms. There are others that have approached this assessment in understanding the transfer of information, how beliefs are formed, the quantification of the idea of truth, the movement of an innovation through a population through time among others.
Julian Jaynes book on the breakdown of consciousness in the bicameral brain, The writings of Timothy Leary, Prometheous Rising by R.A. Wilson and more recently writings by Thom Hartman all overlap in their exploration of what you are describing.
Keep observing and sharing what you see.

[Mythsaje]

10. Hey, to be thinking along the same lines as Thom

is quite a boost to my ego. I'm a big fan of his show, and what I've read of his work with "ADD" children, I do think he's on the right track.

[mortlefaucheur]

11. Why Not?

read some, bkmk rest for later...

[magellan]

14. Last week I posted this quote in another thread

...to describe why I feel reaching out to the second group, as you call them, is pretty much a lost cause:

"Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world...few really ask. On the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown the answers they have already shaped in their own minds - justifications, confirmations, forms of consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open the door to the whirlwind."

Marius from The Vampire Lestat by Anne Rice

From the moment I first read that quote, it resonated with me. I've always been the annoying one who asks 'why' no matter what the subject is. I daisychain my way through interests and spend a lot of time researching things, for the knowledge but also for the joy of greater understanding.

But I'm well aware that a lot of people are NOT like that. Freeper-types are particularly opinionated and resistant to information that contradicts their beliefs...which is remarkable really, because we used to be taught in school to weigh the facts at hand before forming an opinion. I don't always succeed in that personally, but I do make the effort. And I'm not afraid to change my view if I find the facts don't support it any longer.

After dealing firsthand with freepers on another board, I believe their obstinate resistance to fact comes from the fear of having to acknowledge that what they believe might not be true. That's because they spend their lives clinging to articles of faith rather than fact. Faith is safe -- i.e. you can't argue with an intangible. No matter what you say, if it isn't in line with their belief system they'll throw it out. To them, questioning Bush** is like questioning the very existence of God. It's blasphemy. Taboo. The flock says so.

Question them and you can almost hear the supplication: "Get thee behind me, Satan!"

(This is why I always laugh when they call liberals 'commies' or 'godless'; they simply have no other way of expressing how appalled they are by our nerve to question things!)

You can't reason with people who attach themselves to people and ideas for no better reason than that they believe they're right. Well, you can...but don't expect to make any inroads.

Generally they strike me as very needy, dependent sorts who are always on the lookout for something exterior to themselves to blame or idolize. They desire recognition or a sense of inclusion for their loyalty; asking 'why' is counter-productive to that objective.

Asking 'why' is scary.

[Mythsaje]

15. Oh, yeah...

quoting Marius from my favorite book in the Chronicles is definitely a way to get my attention. :D

That's a good one.

One of the things about that series I think a lot of people missed was the sheer optimism about the human race that the "good" vampires like Marius and Lestat shared.

That's one of the reasons the movies just pissed me off.

[magellan]

16. Oh, I loathe the movies!

Just for starters, who in their right mind would cast Tom Cruise as Lestat? He was completely wrong for the part. I would have liked to see Sting, or someone like that...but there you go.

The optimism about the human race wasn't lost on me. It's really prevalent in Queen of the Damned. Let humans make their own mistakes, don't interfere. They're moving towards bettering themselves. Just give them time....

Although, I must admit to finding a certain appeal in Akasha's aim to kill off most of the men in the world. lol

Nice to know another Chronicles fan. :)

[Mythsaje]

17. We imagined Val Kilmer in the part, actually...

And what the hell was that with Banderas as Armand? Armand was supposed to be a young teenager! The casting was terrible--though Pitt did a credible job as Louis the Whiner, and, of course, Kirsten Dunst OWNED Claudia.

But what really pissed me off (other than Cruise as Lestat) was the way the screenplay came together it excised the best book in the series, in my opinion. Lestat was portrayed as a villain and HIS story was never really told. And the movie version of Queen of the Damned was pretty pointless.

[magellan]

18. Hollyweird, what can you do?

They get hold of the rights to a book and that's it, forget ever seeing what was in your head on the screen. With rare exceptions.

Val Kilmer, yeah, or if he were younger Rutger Hauer would've rocked as Lestat. There were great possibilities but they went for box office instead. Anne Rice was tearing her hair out over it, as I recall. If not for the names I wouldn't have recognized most of the characters!

Oh, I forced myself to watch a few minutes of Queen of the Damned on tv last week...just to see how badly they'd mangled it...and was treated to a scene that wasn't even in the book! (The gypsies on the beach??) That was it for me.

Just to bring this back on topic -- why, oh WHY do they do this to beloved novels??

:grr:

[Mythsaje]

19. I'd love to see Hollywood take one of my books for a movie

but I know I'd end up in a war with them. I'd be camping on the casting director's doorstep and shrieking at the screenwriters.

One of my fellow authors is interested in screenwriting, actually, and we've got a deal. In a few years, once she hones her talent, she'll turn one of my books into a screenplay and we'll start shopping it down in Hollywood ourselves.

We know Hollywood is interested in new ideas...they're beating 80s nostalgia into the ground. Sci-fi and fantasy are big box office and they know it. They've GOT to be on the lookout for the next big thing.

[magellan]

22. Mythsaje, how cool!

I didn't realize you were a writer! I just linked to your website; you've sold another copy of Loki's Sin. I look forward to reading it.

Time for bed. I've enjoyed our chat, let's do it again!

[Mythsaje]

25. Oh, too cool!

Thank you! I look forward to chatting again. Drop me an e-mail sometime and let me know how you like the book.

[Dunedain]

24. But in Interview with a Vampire

Lestat wasn't fleshed out yet. The story was from Louis's point of view.
Even in the book I found myself asking why Lestat was such an ass most of time.
Only after 'his' story did I understand why.

[Mythsaje]

26. Yeah, which is why it bugged me that they discarded

his story. He's a fascinating character. One of my favorites in all of fiction. And impetus for my creation of some vampires as HEROES in some of my work.

[Dunedain]

21. Rutger Hower before

he got to looking like Brando.

[magellan]

23. Yeah, lol

Those eyes are still killers, though.

[mwooldri]

20. Because. eom.