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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:41 AM
Original message
WaPo Columnist Laments US "Birth Dearth"
Edited on Wed May-24-06 08:49 AM by Sparkly
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/23/AR2006052301529.html

Edited to add the author's byline:

American fertility is roughly at the replacement rate, 2.1 children per woman. Nor does the U.S. rate merely reflect, as some think, a higher rate among Hispanic Americans. The fertility rate is 1.9 for non-Hispanic whites and about 2 for African Americans, reports demographer Nicholas Eberstadt of the American Enterprise Institute. What explains the American exception? Eberstadt cites three differences with Europe and most other advanced countries: greater optimism, greater patriotism and stronger religious values. There's some supporting evidence. A survey by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago asked respondents in 33 countries to react to this statement: "I would rather be a citizen of than of any other." Among Americans, 75 percent "strongly" agreed; among Germans, French and Spanish, comparable responses were 21 percent, 34 percent and 21 percent, respectively.

Children are now usually a conscious choice -- whereas they were once considered economic necessities or religious obligations. Somehow American society better mixes child rearing and jobs than do other societies that provide greater child subsidies (government day care, family allowances). Indeed, generous welfare states may discourage having children. A study by economists at the University of Minnesota found that high Social Security payments and payroll taxes are associated with low fertility rates. People may feel they don't need children to care for them in old age. Or high taxes and poor economies may deter young people from starting families.

No one knows. Among experts, there is much skepticism that Putin-like economic incentives alone will revive fertility rates. By not having children, people are voting against the future -- their countries' and perhaps their own. It is easy to imagine the sacrifices and disappointments of raising children. It is hard, try as people might, to imagine the intense joys and selfish pleasures. People ignore Adam Smith's keen insight: "The chief part of human happiness arises from the consciousness of being beloved."


There's just something odd to me about this "why aren't they having more babies" thing, and it makes me nervous. (I fear government making moves to take away that "conscious choice.") It's also odd that the numbers are always divided by race -- I get the sense the "birth dearth" they're worried about is not among women of color. And it's a bit unnerving to see men guessing at the reasons for women's choices -- especially guessing at correlations involving the government being such a "generous welfare state."

In my own personal experience, there's not *enough* empowerment of women or support for children in our culture and government. It is incredibly difficult, especially for single mothers, to manage work, childcare, housework, transportation, etc. I don't know how that's so hard to figure out. Seems to me if anybody thinks there should be more children in this country, they should be working to promote things that might actually HELP women and children -- programs BushCo has cut, as well as childcare, equal pay for equal work, flexible employment hours, healthcare, etc...

The whole thing just pisses me off. Is it just me?
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Just you? Hell no.
It's beyond idiotic to worry about whether or not there are "enough" children within the borders of one country.

This is a political issue to be leveraged against reproductive rights, and to provide tax breaks to fundie assholes (just to name two obvious targets, there are plenty of others.)

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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. It takes alot of money to raise children. And more and more of our money
Edited on Wed May-24-06 08:45 AM by w4rma
is going to the upper upper class. It also takes alot of time to raise children and most families now have to have both parents working to survive, where in the 1950's only one parent needed to work to keep a middle class lifestyle.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Americans are very expensive to raise and support
Edited on Wed May-24-06 08:48 AM by htuttle
...both for the parents and for the planet. Most of us seem to require many times more resources than citizens of any other country, and lately we've been producing very little in return - it's all been on credit...

In any case, I'm just fine with America having a low birth rate. It's not as if the unemployment rate is near zero, anyway -- why would we want more of us to compete for the same number of crappy jobs?

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tonkatoy57 Donating Member (443 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. Say What?
"Somehow American society better mixes child rearing and jobs than do other societies that provide greater child subsidies (government day care, family allowances)."

What planet is this asshole from?

I was under the impression that by any objective standard the U.S. fails utterly in the realm of family friendly policies.

Oops, my mistake. The information is from the American Enterprise Institute. Of course the U.S. is best in everything. USA! USA! USA!

These people obviously don't work at a regular job and have children.
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I Was Thinking the Same Thing
It is so obvious how America has failed working parents. Looking at my married children, I understand why families are shrinking. When both parents have to work, there is little time or energy left over for a family. Good childcare is extremely expensive. It is rare to find an employer who "understands" sick children when a parent needs time off. Don't know if this is true, but I heard in Sweden maternity leave is two years? with some income--compared to 6-12 weeks, how are we the best!
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. IIRC Sweden is at least one year
with something like 80-90% of a woman's income. They discourage anybody from coming back to work sooner.

I met some Swedes when I was in London about 10 years ago. One said his sister was coming back home ASAP because she couldn't believe she was only going to get 6 weeks maternity leave.
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abluelady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. I, too, know a woman
who lives here and in Sweden--she is not giving up her Swedish job because of maternity benefits.
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PunkPop Donating Member (847 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Planet Rightwingus.
Samuelson's got a rationalization for just about every rightwing economic or social "theory" out there.
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novalib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm Pissed, Too!
For Heaven's Sake!

With the ENORMOUS strain on the Earth's precious resources now, and with humanity causing GLOBAL warming, and the melting of the polar icecaps, more and more URBAN SPRAWL, and all the starvation there is ALREADY in the world, the LAST thing we need in MORE PEOPLE!!

We should actively be pursuing policies that LIMIT the growth of population.

Complaining about a "birth dearth" is madness -- MADNESS!!!!

It TOTALLY PISSES ME OFF!!
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Exactly....we need a drastic reduction in population, not MORE
Yikes!

I wonder what color the sky is in his world?
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MelliMel Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. I have something that probably pisses you off even more.
5 children.

And judging by the replies on a thread not too long ago, there are many DUers with more than 1 or 2 children.

I am thankful there aren't people in control to tell me how many children I am allowed to have.
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novalib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Good For You!
5 kids?

GOOD for YOU!

I would NEVER presume to "tell me how many children you are allowed to have"!

Why would you even make such a comment? It seems a bit snarky to me.

Thankfully, there are others in this world who have no children -- or one child.

In the end, what matters, I think, is that as a COMMUNITY we do what we can to REDUCE population.

But telling people how many children they can have? That's not right!
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MelliMel Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. I think there are folks on this issue
who would have no problem using the force of law to tell people how many childen they may have. They are few in number, but they are vocal.
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novalib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Well, And I Think That There Are People
Well, I think there are people who have children with NO planning or regard what they are doing to the Earth's precious resources and to the fragile environment we ALL must share.

They are few in number, but they do reproduce!
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Yeah,and I'm one of them
Enviromental sustainablilty is more important then your right to have as many kids as you want.

There should be global population control measures to get the world population down to 1 billion.
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MelliMel Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. You probably won't get that.
Mandatory abortion or contraception? In some nightmare ultra authoritarian state maybe.
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miss_american_pie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. I don't understand
why having children as a "conscious choice" is seen as a negative. Seems to me that decision, more than any other, should be made because someone wants kids, not because they feel like they have to.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Exactly -- and it's evident in the postulated "reasons"
Edited on Wed May-24-06 08:56 AM by Sparkly
Up to a point, we understand plunging fertility rates. Wattenberg reviews the usual suspects: improved incomes; health and life expectancies (as more children survive, parents have fewer babies); growing urbanization (families need fewer children to work the fields); women's access to education and jobs; contraception; later and fewer marriages; more divorces. But our understanding is only partial, because there's one big exception to low fertility rates: the United States.

So, if you take away these things:
- improved incomes
- health and life expectancies
- urbanization
- women's access to education and jobs
- contraception
- later marriage, choices not to marry
- divorce

... then, voila! No more "conscious choice." That's what's scary to me.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. improved incomes?
What the hell planet is this guy from? I don't know anyone with an income that's improved relative to costs any time in the last six years.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. WaPo is going cuckoo bananas with this crap
Last week it was every woman between 20 - 60 should behave as though pre-pregnant because most conceptions are accidental.

This week, too many people are making "conscious choices" against doing their parental duty.

Arseholes.

:crazy:
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. "greater optimism, greater patriotism and stronger religious values"
Maybe that'll be the next push. "Women! Be optimistic! Have some patriotism about your uteruses! Don't be selfish heathens!"
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Right. Be patriotic. Bear us cannon fodder and cheap labor
OR ELSE. :spank:
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. "By not having children, people are voting against the future"
Well, we've got people in power who wage pre-emptive wars, saber rattle with the threat of nuclear weapons, ignore global warming, shout "terra, terra, terra" to make the populice cower in fear, spy on citizens, condone torture, outsource jobs, do their damndest to remove the social safety net...

and then they wonder why the birthrate is falling? The future looks pretty grim right now. That might have something to do with it.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
14. The whole 'abortion' issue is just a back door to stop ALL contraception.
Once they outlaw abortion, it's just a hop, skip and a jump to outlawing contraception. That's their TRUE goal.


By not having children, people are voting against the future -- their countries' and perhaps their own. Damn...is that a scary statement or what? What business is it of HIS how many children women want to have? I have said this before....the SS/Medicare destruction and the abortion/contraception issues are connected to population control. Kill off the elderly and make more babies. Radical concept? NOT FOR THESE PEOPLE!
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
17. Funny, I wasn't aware that we had an extreme overabundance of
Water, food, energye, and space. Voting against the future, my sweet black ass.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
19. what with the state of america and the world, with the bushmilhousegang


in charge of everything and no one to stop them. with the weather up for grabs and in a blink of an eye you can become newly poor.

I wouldn't want to get pregnant now.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
24. It is silly with so many people on the planet and inconsistent
with their thinking there are "too many immigrants" (and they usually are the same people).
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verdalaven Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
27. Handmaiden's Tale
The Bush years are getting creepier every day.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Precisely.
:scared:
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