Cocaine In Breast Milk Caused Death

[ECH1969]

A Michigan woman is charged with involuntary manslaughter after prosecutors say her 5-month-old daughter died from drinking breast milk containing cocaine.

Sara Shelby was arraigned Thursday. If convicted, she faces up to 15 years in prison.

Initially, the cause of the baby's death was thought to be sudden infant death syndrome.

The medical examiner sent samples of the infant's blood to a laboratory for routine analysis, but because no foul play was suspected, the samples weren't tested until recently.

http://www.nbc5i.com/family/9244728/detail.html

[Beelzebud]

1. She should get life in prison...

Sick assholes like this don't deserve freedom.

[SteppingRazor]

2. Eh, she probably didn't know any better...

I imagine killing her own baby is probably far worse punishment than whatever he state will dish out

[Beelzebud]

4. Coke whore poisons baby. Sorry. Can't seem to feel sympathy for her.

Want an abortian? Do it BEFORE birth.

Getting all coked out at home with an infant, and then breastfeeding, is nothing that is going to elicit sympathy from me.

If it was a man. And he accidently poisoned his baby with cocaine, I guarantee he'd be in jail for life.

[acmejack]

12. You're slinging around invective without knowing the facts

But don't let that stop you. Or do you have all the particulars in this case at your fingertips? If so please be kind enough to impart the particulars to the rest of us, so we too can pass judgment on this woman. Whore indeed.

[Beelzebud]

13. The baby died from cocain poisoning. It's time for jail.

[Virginia Dare]

24. If she's convicted, that's where she's going apparently...

and she's got to live with the fact that she killed her own child, so unless she's a cold hearted empty shell of a human that's punishment enough. Since she was breast feeding her child, I assume she had some sort of nurturing feeling towards him.

By the way, cocaine is an extremely addictive drug. I've seen people do some horrible things to themselves and others because of cocaine addiction, and I did have sympathy for them.

[Lucy - Claire]

85. Maybe not a whore.. but criminally stupid....

A breast feeding mother has to take care of everything they put in their bodies...
She deserves prison, I have no sympathy, she was responsible for her baby and she
let it die needlessly.

[Bonobo]

26. If she was breastfeeding her baby, she must have loved it

dearly and you must be a very sad individual to make the remarks you make.

[Beelzebud]

31. Didn't love her baby enough to not poison it with the cocaine she

continued using though, did she?

I guess I'm just a bad guy. If my wife were using coocaine around a newborn, whe would soon lose custody.

[Bonobo]

44. It is a sad day on DU

When people sit at their computers and pretend they can read into people's hearts and judge them.

Have they ever walked in that woman's shoes?

She used coke and she breastfed her baby. Maybe I don't get it, but unless she KNEW it was going to harm the baby, why is she a bad person?

She was breastfeeding her baby. A loving act of nurturing. She wasn't sticking pre-made formula in its mouth though that probably would have been easier...

Anyway, all you judgmental jerks should close your mouths and think about how much child nurturing you have done in your own lives. Probably less than you should have, so stop judging...

[Beelzebud]

61. Baby dies of cocaine overdoes, and I'm not to judge his shit mother?

It really is a sad day for DU...

[lastliberalintexas]

68. Not until you have all the facts

There are plenty of unanswered questions raised by this article, but don't let pesky little things like facts get in the way of a good hang em high rant.

If you are ever charged with a crime, be sure and tell the prosecutors that they can skip the trial, as you'll agree to go straight to jail I'm sure. :eyes:

[Lucy - Claire]

86. She snortted cocaine knowing she was breatfeeding...

that is not something a caring, nurturing mother would do.A nurturing mother would not delibratly harm her child and if she is a serious addict then bottle feeding would have been the best thing, while getting help so that she does not
subject her child to a drug addict for a mother and end up in care.
It is not a matter of sitting at a computer and judging, she killed her baby by taking coke and feeding it to her baby
through her breast milk.. I pity the baby and the woman who will get clean and feel the full force of her actions. But it is manslaughter and should be treated as such.

[Bonobo]

95. Why do you think it was deliberate?

[NJ_Lib]

3. My God, how much cocaine did she have...

... to be doing in order for it to have killed her baby through her breast milk? I've heard of babies ingesting cocaine directly and surviving, this had to be massive amounts... She should stand trial for manslaughter, at least...

[benburch]

6. Drugs concentrate in breast milk...

...as do pesticides and other nasty things.

[Cairycat]

51. No, this depends on the drug

and a number of other factors, such as how well a drug is absorbed orally, how well it binds to protein in the milk, how large a molecule it is, how quickly it reaches maximum concentration in the mother's plasma and how quickly it is out of her blood, etc. etc.

Of course it is a bad idea for a mother doing cocaine to breastfeed her baby. However, a mother using cocaine probably cannot competently care for her child, regardless of how the baby is fed. Cocaine is actually processed by the body fairly rapidly, but is considered to have 91% oral absorption, which is quite high.

As far as chocolate, coffee, and other caffeinated drinks - it depends on the baby. It was never a problem for my three children.

Many, many prescription drugs are quite safe for nursing mothers to take. In the majority of cases, mother's milk with a drug in it is still vastly superior to formula. Women should NOT feel that they shouldn't breastfeed because they won't be able to take needed drugs. They should however, check with a knowledgeable health professional about the safety of the drug in question. Unfortunately, there are way too many doctors and nurses who just say, "you're breastfeeding - you can't take anything". A knowledgeable provider will know enough to check a good reference, like Medications and Mothers' Milk by Thomas W. Hale, a Texas pharmacist who is considered one of the world's leading experts on this subject.

[NJ_Lib]

56. Thank you,

... I learned a few things I didn't know... ;)


Edited: Spelling

[Ilsa]

69. Bravo! You beat me to saying everything I wanted to say!

Benburch is awesome, :pals: but a few of us have got the facts on him on this.

[Dora]

89. "Concentrates" is a misleading word.

I once did a lot of reading and research on drugs, pregnancy, and breastfeeding. What I learned is that research results can be misunderstood because of terms like "concentrates" and "concentrations."

Some drugs will pass into a mother's breast milk in variable concentrations. Unfortunately, many people read "concentrations" and assume that means it's a stronger dose. That's not what it means. It just means that the drug appears in the milk. Its concentration may be weak, or it may be strong, but the word "concentration" alone does not signify any sort of increased power.

I just wanted to raise the point. I do think that the infant in question had an increased risk of SIDS because of maternal drug use, but I doubt that s/he died because of a cocaine overdose. I imagine that if the mother was using cocaine, she was probably also smoking cigarettes, which is a huge factor in SIDS deaths. Nicotine is a big no-no for breastfeeding mothers.

I haven't heard yet if the ME has issued a statement on blood toxicity levels.

[Mandate My Ass]

7. I don't know

when I was breastfeeding my doc warned me against any caffeinated drinks and even small amounts of chocolate. That was really hard to give up but I did rather than find out how hyper a baby could get from chocolate-laden breast milk. Maybe it was over a period of time that it built up in the baby's system, not just one feeding. :shrug:

[NJ_Lib]

11. Yes, I remember too, you have to be so careful...

... when you're breastfeeding, even spicy food is discouraged... How ignorant do you have to be, to do cocaine and then breastfeed? What do they say, ignorance is not an excuse? We would be tearing her apart if she drove without a car seat and her baby was killed, I don't see much of a difference here...

[Mandate My Ass]

15. People can be pretty ignorant about biology

A long time ago I read a book written by a woman doctor who worked for years in ob/gyn. She said one woman came into the hospital in labor with her sixth or seventh child and wanted a tubal ligation after the baby was born. During the birth there were complications and they had to do an emergency C-section and hysterectomy. The woman refused to leave the hospital without having her tubes tied. Nobody could convince her she could never get pregnant without a uterus. There were many, many more stories like that one but that's the one that stands out to me.

So I can believe someone could be that ignorant.

[NJ_Lib]

17. I do see your point but how in the world...

...do you go about proving something like this in a court of law? Proving that you actually didn't know...

[Mandate My Ass]

18. You can't

but the prosecution is the one with the burden of proof. She likely did know it could possibly harm her baby, but addicts always think they can get away with it just this one last time, then they're gonna quit, for real this time, no kidding.

I'd hate to think she gambled with her baby's health this way, but she was likely doing it through the pregnancy and thought she'd gotten through the tough part.

[AngryAmish]

22. Spicy food is discouraged?

I'm a childless guy so forgive my ignorence -- but I could NOT give up spicy food for the months/years of breastfeeding. The 'lil critter would just learn how to deal with jalapenos.

[Mandate My Ass]

23. Yes, that was tough too

no cayenne, tabasco, jalapenoes, chipotle or anything along those lines, even Old Bay was discouraged. In other words, get used to bland!

I don't think I could manage that now but it doesn't matter since my son is in his twenties. :)

[Raster]

94. obviously no one informed the cajuns about this

[moc]

59. No, it's not. Some kids might react to what you eat. Mine never did.

I didn't have to alter my diet at all. Both of my children were exclusively breastfed.

[Ilsa]

71. It depends on how the baby reacts. My kids loved it when I ate

spicy foods, and they tooted pretty freely if I had something that made them gassy. Some babies can handle savory foods; other babies can't until they are older nursing babies or not at all. The mother can eat almost anything she wants. She just needs to watch the baby for signs of a reaction to the food.

[etherealtruth]

77. Well ...

I'm not sure I buy that either. Think of all the cultures where extremely spicy food is the norm, women continue to eat their cultural diets and breast feed w/out problem. I married into an Indian family (from the subcontinent), their style of cooking was very spicy (ah, the food, the food that is what I miss from my marriage) I nursed all three of my children ... but, I did not use drugs (*) or alcohol. * I did drink a COUPLE of cups of caffeinated coffee every day, it seems the human body quickly adjusts to the caffeine in coffee and none of my children suffered ill effects from it.

[Lucy - Claire]

87. Not just for breastfeeding but during pregnancy

Spicy foods are not wise during pregnancy either it can cause heartburn and discomfort for both mother and baby....
If you eat spicy food while pregnant it will become apparent that it is a problem and it will if you breast feed after eat jalapenos and the baby is crying all night with belly ache and has bad diapers too.

[Jed Dilligan]

29. Fix the education system before sending people up the river

for being uneducated. Please?

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. The education system is responsible?

Pray do tell how in the world they are the reason this baby died.

:popcorn:

[Jed Dilligan]

39. Well, if we could assume the woman knew any biology

as we could in almost any other developed country, we could also assume she knew she was killing her baby. But we can't assume that, because she grew up in America, and so she is probably pretty ignorant.

But I don't blame the education system--I blame the War on Drugs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. Well we don't have all the facts yet

But I think we can blame a drug addiction. And the war on drugs can share responsibility :)

[MountainLaurel]

76. Spicy food?

I wonder what women in India and Latin America eat when they're breastfeeding?

[Lucy - Claire]

88. milder spices....

Also maybe genetics come into this. If a child is born into a culture were spicy food is normal and everyday,
then it may cause less irritation. In India they would eat Kormas, mangos,coconut and rice, rather than firey food.

[Ilsa]

70. You watch the baby for reactions. Some babies react more than

others to one thing or another. My first child was jittery if I drank caffeine, but it didn't even faze my second child. One glass of red wine was the limit as my babies got older (a year or so) and I was still nursing.

[Warpy]

5. Fe fi fo fum, I smell BULLSHIT

and a drug phobic, overzealous prosecutor with too much time on his hands.

Babies are BORN with huge loads of cocaine in their systems directly from adddicted mothers' blood supplies and live through it.

There couldn't have been enough in breast milk to kill the kid.

This is such a load of crap.

[benburch]

9. Well, somehow this child got a lethal dose.

If not from breast-feeding, how?

The breast milk part might be prosecutorial zealous conjecture, but he can't make up a lethal dose in the blood.

[High Plains]

19. No, somehow this baby died.

Prosecutor says cocaine overdose. That doesn't mean it's true. I would be interested to hear just what the level was. I suspect any amount of cocaine in the blood would get the prosecutor going. The initial diagnosis was SIDS.

Reminds of those people getting killed by Tasers, and it's never the Taser that killed them, it was the cocaine in their system or "excited delirium."

[benburch]

20. Medical examiners don't usually lie about these things.

But I'll leave that to the jury to decide.

[High Plains]

25. The medical examiner didn't say it was a lethal dose of cocaine

At least not in the linked story. Prosecutors said the baby died from lethal levels of cocaine. The story doesn't say how much cocaine was found in the baby's system. In fact, the story doesn't even say cocaine was found at all (a curious lacunae).

And medical examiners have been known to err. I already referenced the various Taser deaths blamed on cocaine. And there is the case of the Florida boot camp kid beaten to death by guards where the medical examiner blamed it on sickle cell anemia.

[Maine-ah]

62. is it possible

that the child really did die from SIDS, and just happened to have some cocaine in her system from the breast milk?

[Ilsa]

72. What if someone gave it directly to the baby? Only a small amount

from the mother's use would have been secreted in her breastmilk.

[NJ_Lib]

14. Most five month old babies aren't crawling yet...

... How else would the cocaine get there? Unless the mother did through the pregnancy and continued through breastfeeding, until the levels in the baby's blood exceeded what she could tolerate... But I thought they tested most newborn babies for drugs. Why would they release her to her mother if cocaine was found at birth? I bet we don't have the whole story here... I'd like to hear the mother's side of this story...

[Warpy]

82. You're mistaking a trace for a lethal dose

Big mistake.

We can tolerate lots of lethal poisons in trace doses and cocaine isn't that lethal.

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. A long term study

that was done at UF showed that babies born to cocaine/crack user moms were not directly affected by the drug. Apparently, it does not cross the placenta.

I'm not sure of breastmilk but this story smells of bs to me. That would have to be a lot cocaine in there to cause death.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

42. bull

you only have to hold a crack baby once to know it SERIOUSLY fucks them up.

[DoYouEverWonder]

46. I worked at Jackson in Miami

I've held more then a few crack babies.

I was offered the job to be the coordinator on a long term study done at UF, following babies born to moms who did crack during pregnancy. (I had to turn down the job for personal reasons).

After 10 years they found that the outcomes for these kids were not much different then kids from the same circumstances without the crack exposure. Believe me the results were a shock.

I'm sure they've published the results. I'll look for a link later.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

50. maybe after 10 years or so, they catch up...

but they're first few days are hell for them. I don't see that it matters anyway, whether it's temporary or long-term, it's still abuse.

[DoYouEverWonder]

55. I agree

One good thing is that if you can find a better placement for these babies, their outcomes are pretty good. Unlike fetal alcohol syndrome kids. Those kids are a mess.

[moc]

58. You are correct. I've reviewed a number of cocaine outcome studies

that were being submitted for publication. (I was one of the peer reviewers). There's no "there there". The "crack baby" epidemic is the "epidemic" that never was.

I also know a good bit about breastfeeding, teratogenesis, etc. I doubt VERY seriously that cocaine in breastmilk killed this infant.

[NuttyFluffers]

79. wow, thanks for the info!

but could you be so kind as to recommend any studies, journal articles, etc. that can tell me this. i actually enjoy a dry read every now and then. what should i be looking for in these studies?...

[Asgaya Dihi]

83. Try this one

The crack baby thing is a myth and always has been a myth, it was a tool of hysteria to justify increased budgets for the drug war and prison growth. The following open letter to the media was released in 2004 by some of the top researchers in the nation and begs the media to stop the hysteria with the meth and crack baby myths.

As someone else said, there's no there there, and the hysteria kills.

http://advocatesforpregnantwomen.org/file/FFinalpress+Letter%20No%20More%20Crack%20Baby.pdf

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. They overcome it though

They did a longitudinal study in LA about 15 years ago. By the time these babies were in preschool, there was no sign they were born drug addicted.

[liontamer]

91. actually the "crack baby effect"

turned out to be fetal alcohol syndrome in disguise. Cocaine isn't usually that damaging to infants, but mothers who are doing crack while pregnant are usually also heavy drinkers

[Warpy]

81. It does cross the placenta

but it doesn't have long term effects. What they were seeing when the original howl about "crack babies" went up were the horrible effects of poverty and deprivation, not the drug. When they discovered that, they dropped the issue rather than take on POVERTY.

The newborns were in tough shape, though, until the drug(s) cleared their bodies.

[Lance_Boyle]

8. if they only sampled the infant's blood,

how do they know the route of entry of the cocaine? Did they also sample and test the breast milk? TFA is a wee bit light on detail.

[kaffiria]

10. well

well then what? she fed it to the kid? not any better.

[Lance_Boyle]

16. Lots more room for doubt in this case

if the breast milk was stored in a refrigerator, where someone other than the mother could've tainted it.

[NJ_Lib]

21. If you're not an attorney, you should be...

... That's a damn good arguement...

[DoYouEverWonder]

28. Good points

If the baby did test positive for cocaine, then they would have a real case.

Even if it didn't come from the breastmilk, it would have to come from somewhere and that would be a big problem for this mom.

[Jed Dilligan]

30. There's a lot of crap in a drug environment to kill a baby,

including gang bullets and police flash-bang grenades. I blame the War on Drugs as in all drug deaths.

This woman probably didn't tell her doctor about the cocaine because she was afraid of being busted. Whether it was the drug itself, or malnutrition, or general neglect that killed a baby, I don't know.

A cocaine addict has no business raising a child; the courts could have saved this baby if Sara Shelby was a medically supervised legal addict.

[Bridget Burke]

32. What percentage of coke was found in the blood?

Was it definitely the cause of the baby's death?

If so, are they sure breast milk was the source?

How do they KNOW the mother's intake of cocaine at the time?

Lots of questions...

[Texasgal]

33. It is a sad day on DU

When people start to defend a coke up Mother who put her child at risk.

I'll bet could post the picture of Britney Spears driving with her baby in her lap and that thread would go nutso, lambasting Spears... calling for her head. :eyes:

But go ahead and defend the coked out mother!! CRIPES! :eyes:

[Mandate My Ass]

34. She hasn't been convicted of anything yet

merely accused after SIDS was originally ruled as the cause of death. So I'll pass on the lynch mob for now.

[Texasgal]

40. The article said she has been charged.

So, she will go to court and have a jury of her peers decide her fate.

The only think I know is that a 5 month old baby has been found with cocaine in his bloodstream, something went WRONG. She better have a helluva defense!

[lastliberalintexas]

64. And being charged with a crime means jack, TG

The state has proven nothing as of yet, and this article was very thin on facts.

I don't think it's a case of DUers defending a coked up mother so much as it is DUers asking others not to jump to conclusion without all the facts. :shrug:


I am continually dismayed at the hang 'em high sentiments expressed on this board. If even progressives are so quick to rush to judgment and/or swing the burden of proof to the defendant, then we are in serious trouble. Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It really is that simple, and that important.

[Beelzebud]

35. Agreed.

I'm going to be HATED for saying this by some, but here it goes anyway.

Everytime I see a story about a mother who kills her children, there is ALWAYS an element that comes out and basically says that no matter what a woman does to her kids, we should all feel sorry for her.

I don't buy that shit. If you drown your kids in a bathtub, cut their arms off, poison them with cocaine, or any other totally SICK shit, you deserve no less than life in prison.

[Bridget Burke]

37. You might be HATED.

Or you might be ignored.

[Beelzebud]

60. So be it.

If someone that thinks I'm a bad guy, for being hard on a mother who poisons her baby with cocaine, and wants to ignore me over it, I'll be the first to say: Please do!

[Mandate My Ass]

63. She has been accused of that offense, far from convicted

but "coke whore" just sounds so good you couldn't resist it.

[Beelzebud]

73. If the shoe fits...

All the women I know don't abuse cocaine with a baby in the house.

I'm so sorry to offend you. How about Coke Mother. Is that more pleasing?

[woo me with science]

84. "Coke Mommie" nt

[Texasgal]

38. Yup... I am sure I'll have my ass flamed as well.

But when do we hold the parents responsible for their children?

5 month old babies have no one to DEFEND them! Where is the OUTRAGE???

[Mandate My Ass]

41. The baby died months ago

the cocaine turned up in lab tests just recently, but the prosecutor automatically assumes it came from breast milk. That's a big leap in my book.

Who's going to defend people from overzealous prosecution and long-term imprisonment before all the facts emerge and a defense can be mounted?

This is why we're the world's #1 jailer. We're taught to feel and express outrage against people who've been accused of crimes with an emotional impact. Let the process work.

[Texasgal]

47. Ofcourse I am going to let the process work

I am not stupid... I am aware that she will be going to trial.

I just find it horrible that people are so quick to defend the Mother, without knowing the facts either, or "letting the process" work.

Over zealous prosecutor? Thank GOD! Otherwise, this poor child died in vain, with no one to uncover the real truth. That baby needs a voice. I am glad that the prosecutor is over zealous.

Here is a question, if you were the procecutor and found the coke in the blood stream, how do you think a 5-month old child got it?

[Mandate My Ass]

53. I'm not a prosecutor

It seems to me the mother is no longer lactating so testing her milk is not possible. As a poster above noted, if she pumped her breast milk and put it in the fridge anybody who had access to the home could've done it. The burden of proof is on the prosecutor.

I wonder how anybody here who's ready to pump the lethal injection into this woman would like to be judged on such little evidence.

I'm sorry you're haunted by all the shrieks from beyond the grave of newborns who died under similar circumstances. I'm not ready to toss living adults into the dung heap because of premature outrage over the death of a baby.

If she did it, fine. Do the crime, do the time. But I also think she's a sick, rather than evil, human being. I hope if she did this she gets help in addition to punishment.

[Texasgal]

54. Wow... pretty weird post there.

I am not "haunted by shreiks" of dead babies. Sheesh.

I am posting an opinion on an annoymous message board. I am conversing with someone who does not agree with me... but OH... I must be HAUNTED by the SHRIEKS of dead babies. :eyes:

Nevermind...I am done here. Thanks for playing.

[lastliberalintexas]

66. Google info about the Houston Crime Lab

Then get back to me about how happy you are that prosecutors are overzealous elected officials out to score a headline.


As to how the child might have gotten the cocaine in her system, there are plenty of ways other than through the breast milk. Has a vindictive boyfriend been ruled out? A babysitter? Do we really know for certain that this was the baby's blood and that the test results were accurate (again, se Houston Crime Lab)? Do we know for certain that the mother intentionally ingested cocaine? Or was it slipped to her somehow?


No offense, TG, because I usually like your posts. But I'd hate to have you on a jury.

[Texasgal]

74. Hey.. I am not saying that she is guilty

I am just shocked at how many people take the mothers side BEFORE knowing any info... that's all. :)

[elehhhhna]

93. Plus cross contamination at the lab...probably lots of coke residue ina

police lab.

Just saying.

[MelliMel]

45. I don't get it.

Somehow child abuse and neglect gets the ok and the "poor mother" gets sympathy, not the dead child.

[Texasgal]

48. yeah...pretty weird.

Like I said... it's a sad day on DU.

[Texasgal]

49. yeah...pretty weird.

Like I said... it's a sad day on DU.

[lastliberalintexas]

67. Um, no the poor mother gets the presumption of innocence

Pretty simple concept that I'm sure you'd want the advantage of if YOU were the one who'd been merely *charged* with a crime.

[Virginia Dare]

80. I get it...

it's because if this mother did poison her child with cocaine tainted breast milk, which is yet to be proven by the way, most likely she was not out to "kill" her baby. Most likely, it was an accident. Was she a neglectful mother by virtue of the fact that she was abusing cocaine? Possibly, and she needed help. Maybe she was in the process of getting help, none of us knows that. It's a tragedy all around, and at this point, I have sympathy for both mother and child. I could always change my mind as the facts come out though.

[lastliberalintexas]

65. What if it was an unintentional posioning?

What if the woman unknowingly ingested the cocaine which possibly led to this baby's death? What if there was a mix up with the blood at the ME's office (google Houston crime lab to feel oh so safe about your chances in front of a Harris County jury if DNA evidence is presented)? What if someone else gave the baby cocaine, either intentionally or not? What if the baby really died of SIDS and the blood test was conducted improperly?

Can you say that any of those possibilities have been ruled out? Do you know facts of this case that weren't in the thin article which was posted? Would you want someone like you on your jury?


But for the grace of god go I. Please don't ever serve on a jury- you apparently pre-judge every situation you hear about.

[LostinVA]

75. All that proves is that you know nothing about mental illness

And THAT'S why some of us defend Andrea Yates -- because we do. Hating someone for having a very real, very incapacitating illness isn't "not buying shit," it's showing that you really have no clue about psychosis and other extreme me mental illnesses.

But hey! If it makes you feel self righteous and warm and fuzzy about yourself, go for it! Let em know, too, when a male can get postpartum psychosis or breastfeed a baby. That'll interest the hell out of me.

[noonwitch]

43. I think this is more of a criminal neglect case than a murder

The mother did not intend to poison her child, she intended to get high. I'm not justifying what she did, it is wrong, but it's not going to do much good for a prosecutor to overcharge her, either.


I'm surprised in West Branch that it's cocaine and not meth. Cocaine is more of a big-city drug in Michigan.

I wonder where the mother falls on the Weschler. Why was she breast feeding when she was doing drugs? I know women who smoke cigarettes that bottle feed their babies so they can start smoking again after they give birth. It's pretty common knowledge that whatever you consume ends up in the milk, so I'm thinking either she was born slow, or the drugs made her stupid.

[Texasgal]

52. Okay..so by your logic...

If I get drunk and drive my car, hitting and killing someone it's criminal neglect?

" But..but..Officer, no one told me that alcohol can screw up my driving skills!"

[pooja]

90. lets look at the bigger picture

Here is a good case for preventative measures. There are usually 2 reasons to breast feed. One the natural goodness, two its free. Since she was using cocaine I am going to make a biased judgement and say that the girl was probably doing it for the "free" reason. If she had been able to get free birth control, would we be talking about this trajedy. Also, in the pre-natal months, were there signs that she would be unable to handle a child.... How many potential adoptive parents would have done better.... we need to take the babies out of irresponsible people's hands.

[Asgaya Dihi]

92. Punishment before a crime?

Maybe instead of trying to guess who's worthy to have a kid or not we should educate and regulate. Street dealers don't give a damned, they'll sell to anyone. If the stuff was regulated she'd have had to buy from a regulated professional who would have known better and stopped or educated her.

But no, better to find someone to kick. Forget about preventing it before it happens, let's just punish them after.

[progressivebydesign]

96. 'You need a license to drive a car but any asshole can have a kid'

One of my favorite movie lines.. ever, from Parenthood.

Drug and alcohol abusing parents amaze me. They do shit like this, then they're the same ones that hold press conferences that the police endangered their children during a raid. No one is fucking stupid enough to believe that doing coke while breastfeeding would not harm your baby. WTF is she doing cocaine for with a tiny baby in her care?? Poor little baby.