Excessive religiosity and poverty are often correlated, at least

[raccoon]

in the US, it seems.

I wonder why? In a way I can see how many people might think, "I'm SAVED, so I'm special."

But OTOH, if I were dirt-poor, and I perceived God as providing good things for good people, I'd be pissed off at God for not arranging things better for me--providing me with more affluent parents, fixing it so I win the lottery, etc.

Thoughts?

[SteppingRazor]

1. I think you left out one point...

That isn't true just in this countrry, but worldwide.

Excessive religiosity and poverty aren't directly linked. But both are often the result of ignorance.

Mind you, I'm not saying religion is the result of ignorance, I'm saying excessive religion is. Believing in God is one thing. Believing in the Adam and Eve story is quite another.

[Gormy Cuss]

2. Assuming that correlation, I would hazard a guess that it's the same

reason poorer people are more inclined to play the lottery -- the hope for a better life, whether here on Earth or as a good soul in the hereafter.

[Avalux]

3. Haven't repented enough; don't deserve it.

If you're not one of those who are well-off, it's because you haven't prayed enough, haven't done enough in the name of Jesus to repent your sins. If you just try a little harder and send money to Pat Robertson so HE can pray for you (since he has an direct line to God), then maybe you will be blessed and rewarded. :eyes:

That's kinda how it's been explained to me. How do you think televangelists get so rich? (those sending in money don't get it)

[CrispyQ]

4. I don't think real Christians equate wealth with G-d's favor.

However, the mass of Xians who want to control the morality of the rest of us do. You can see their sense of entitlement oozing from them.

Bumper sticker: Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.

[Aiptasia]

5. God the crutch

Stressed out people often use religion as a crutch when the chips are down. At least Jesus had the spine to dress down the wealthy temple-goers when they looked down on the poor.

If there is a heaven, I sure hope rich people who never use their wealth for the common good are banned for eternity.

[ClintonTyree]

6. You'll get YOUR reward in the afterlife!

Religions have used this tactic to control the poor for centuries. They may be dirt poor, starving and have no place to live but as long as you live a good, clean holy life (and contribute to the church when you can't afford it) you'll get your reward in "heaven". :eyes: It works like a charm. Religion is the only thing most poor people have but they're not smart enough to realize they're being lied to. And the rich along with the church laugh merrily all the way to the bank.

[heidler1]

9. This is the real life unsolvable dilemma.

What with the genetic truth and subsequent IQ, gullibility, physical abilities and so on we are all dealt who wants to remove hope of some dream of a better after life? The more handicaps that you have to live with the more pain.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

7. A bilateral cause and effect.

Poverty goes hand in hand with a lack of education. A lack of education seems to sow, reap and harvest stronger religious feelings than among people who attend years of schooling. (it also explains why so many red-staters hate educated people) Ergo, poverty causes religious feelings. When one is desperate, when one's circumstances offer little opportunity for advancement, when your future looks exceedingly dismal, sometimes rational thought disappears and can be replaced by excessive religious feelings.
I cannot begin to estimate how many times I have run into people with incredibly poor situations in my profession. And I cannot count how often their only solice is in their Instruction manual and their alleged offspring of their big guy upstairs. In most of those cases, from my experience, these people prefer to remain ignorant, uneducated and poor, yet clinging to their faith. In most cases, nothing would prevent them from seeking more education and seeking a better form of employment.

the second one is more of a stretch, but I will take a stab at it anyway.

Religious feelings (I am talking "excessive") prevent people from seeing the world as it is. What good is a high energy physics researcher if the only answer that person looks for is found in Mark 1:12 or Luke 3:4 through 21? No one will hire the excessively religious in those professional fields that require an honest view and understanding of the universe. And that goes from science, math, accounting, law, chemistry, and much more. By wearing blinders and deliberately enforcing a type of willful ignorance on themselves and their members, they reduce the many opportunities for advancement, good salaries, and start-up businesses. By attacking anyone and everyone who disagrees, even slightly, with their sect's rules and doctrines, they limit just how acceptable they can be in normal society.
In essence, Excessive Religiousity results in self-imposed poverty.

With a few exceptions (the Mormons are one example of financial success, but they also do not wear scientific blinders and hold on for life to ridiculous concepts like a 6,000 yr universe, a flat earth or inerrent translations of Revelations or most of the Olde Testament) the greater numbers of excessive religious people reside in a particular area, the greater probablity of poverty, even abject poverty. Rather than do something creative and economically sound, they pray. Rather than push education on their kids, they force them into some indoctrination brain-washing center. Rather than provide the circumstances for other people's investments and construction, they build megachurches.

Of course, there is the bald truth that living your life under a set of improbable, illogical and inane myths, tends to interfere with growth in general, especially when the myth-makers cast apsersions at the very society that would free them from their poverty. Religion is the all-powerful damaging influence on society and civilisation. Excessive religion creates poverty, and forces it to remain as the only choice for its members.

(PS Hi there, talahassee Grannie! Again, I do NOT mean this as an attack on you!)

[raccoon]

8. Sort of a catch-22. Makes sense.

"When one is desperate...sometimes rational thought disappears and can be replaced by excessive religious feelings. "

When one's desperate, as someone posted above, their only hope is an afterlife that they believe will be much better than their lives here.

IMO, this belief that an afterlife will make everything all right is magical thinking, which is a form of denial. Too bad so many engage in it. Even though I can understand how sometimes magical thinking is the only thing that makes it possible for somebody to keep going.

Good point--"No one will hire the excessively religious in those professional fields that require an honest view and understanding of the universe. "

[sweetheart]

10. Monastic or initiate life

If you take your religion seriously enough to make it your full-time zeal,
you're clearly not expecting to be paid for it, but rather to see all actions
and life as part of religious life, and likely are putting energy towards the
general good via the religion. Nuns might not make much money, but they do
some mighty needed things out in the world. Buddhist monks are known to
spend years meditating in solitude, yet buddhism is a thriving organic
community spanning the planet where persons support each other in ways
non-economic.

Perhaps this discussion is invoked to religion bash, or to suggest all religious
folks must be daft, so that's why they're broke, but perhaps a religious person
simply sees that the material world is not such a big deal to get worked up about,
and if they don't have the sociopathic need to sell their belly button on MTV,
why is that a crime of conscience.

Your thread OP rather supports the conservative meme of puritainism where those
who are "worthy" make more money, and those god eschew's are poor. In so many
twisted meanings, its a very similar statement.

[raccoon]

11. Not sure I understand what you're saying, but I personally

don't believe being rich, having rich parents, being healthy, having healthy children, etc., is a sign of God's favor, nor is the opposite a sign of God's disfavor.

If that's what my post conveyed, it's not what I mean to say.

Edited to add 2nd paragraph.

[sweetheart]

12. you captured it well

Sometimes we discover the memes as we speak them ourselves, their propaganda
is so slick, no blame.

There is a popular idea that people who are poor are morally at fault, like
they didn't "get a job" and due to their own lack of initiative, are poor.

If having money is "gods favour" and you reread your op, that is how i'm applying
the interpretation. It hardly reads deliberate, and as it is such an honest post,
is worth the reflection, but you're repeating a 400 year old puritain idea in that
op, that those who really know "reality" are given god's bounty, and the poor are
those who god eschews. God, not being "god", but your moral zenith.

Sorry to threadsinker ya, but there are a lot of religious persons on this board,
people who are real christians as much as Bush is a fake one... and for all those
who respect the sacred divine, i object to religion bashing, in whatever form.

namaste,
-s