What do you think about work?

[Jed Dilligan]

Sorry to do two different polls this morning (I'm in a surveying mood) but I really want to know how people here split on the issue of whether or not one can succeed simply by accepting one's lot and then working hard to improve it. A basic economic and political question.

I tend to vacillate between three and four myself, where do you stand?

[Deja Q]

1. Compassionate philosophy suggests we live to work... not work to live.

The rest of it becomes a non-issue.

Let people work with their strengths. People are not mere machines who have to jump at every order. Treat them like machines and you get poor quality work...

[Jed Dilligan]

2. So you are saying people should be more inspired by their jobs?

Is that possible under industrial capitalism?

[Virginia Dare]

3. I'd say all of the above...

it depends on who is doing the "work", who is making the "work", and what the "work" is.

[Finder]

5. and how one defines success. n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

7. I meant material/social, not spiritual nt

[Finder]

23. I meant material/social as well...

Success means different things to different people. For some, putting a roof over the head and food on the table and being able to put their children through college is success. For others, owning a second home or sports car is their measure.

Regardless, it is those who make reaslistic goals and do what they have to to reach them that consider themselves successful.

[Jed Dilligan]

25. Relative success is more relevant in this culture.

Maybe it's a new set of rims for your hyphy Impala, or maybe it's the second home or the sports car, but success in America is generally defined as having what your neighbors don't.

[Finder]

26. Good point, especially since I am a relativist...

I do not see "America" as monolithic in anything.

[bananas]

30. Is that your definition of success?

I wouldn't say that's the general definition of success in America, although it may seem that way for you.
But for that definition, the facts are well established, the major factor is being born rich.

[Jed Dilligan]

39. When we talk about "successful people"

our indicator is conspicuous consumption, just as when we talk about "homeless people" our indicator is soiled clothes and shopping carts. I don't really think in terms of "life success" for myself but it's pretty prevalent in our culture. Few people I've encountered count themselves successful merely for achieving comfort. Striving for more, the American dream and all that. Surely you admit this is a pretty huge cultural complex?

[Finder]

43. I don't consider the ultra rich as successful...

To succeed, one has to have a goal to reach. Those born rich are not necessarily successful. Although I do agree having been born into money makes it a hell of a lot easier to become successful.

Most people I condider successful are not into "conspicuous consumption."

[Jed Dilligan]

45. Are you Calvinist or Lutheran? nt

[MADem]

4. Work is GREAT if it brings you joy

Work is necessary unless you inherited a bundle or are a thief.

Work can suck, and kill you, if you despise your job.

Work, ANY work, is welcome when you are hungry and need to feed yourself and your family.

Work is a fact of our culture, by and large.

[Jed Dilligan]

6. What about welfare, then?

Should people who simply hate to work get welfare? That seems simpler to me than actually trying to employ them.

[Virginia Dare]

14. Like an ant colony...

where you have one class who works and one class who breeds.;-)

[MADem]

29. Hell, I'd venture to say there's work in breeding

I recently spoke with a young lady who had a real hoo-ha of a delivery! Certainly not play, that!

[Jed Dilligan]

34. The hardest work, to me, is raising kids and keeping house

increadingly paid but mostly unpaid. There you have all the mental demands of management and all the physical demands of labor.

[Virginia Dare]

37. Even harder...

raising kids, keeping house, AND "working" (a paid job).

[MADem]

28. Maybe they hate to work because they haven't found joy

Or they don't have the education to do something they'd like to do.

Lazy people exist, but most people get a kick out of doing SOMETHING. The trick is to find the thing you like, and then find the employer who will pay you for doing it.

[Jed Dilligan]

31. Maybe in a big city, with internet access and a bachelor's degree,

this is possible, but for the most part... I don't think it's much of an option.

Nobody could possibly like the jobs that are available to unskilled people. You would have to be mentally wrong somehow to enjoy working in a McDonald's or a slaughterhouse.

[MADem]

38. A bit of education could put them ahead of that curve

Then, those jobs wouldn't be the only options. And with satellite internet access, you can work anywhere. I've done it at sea.

Some people don't worry about the actual labor they do, but they like the interaction. There are a cadre of geezers near me who work at the local McDonalds. They work the registers, mostly, and the drive through, do a bit of table-clearing and mopping and whatnot. They only do fifteen or so hours a week each, and they do it more for the social aspect than the dough. I can't see them enjoying the slaughterhouse, but they do like getting up every day and working for two or three hours. The bosses like it, too, because they are reliable, hard working, pleasant, know the regulars by name, and make the joint more "local" than the average chain. They get a little dough, but not so much that it screws up their social security. A win-win, for that bunch.

[sallyseven]

8. Work is highly overated.

[Jed Dilligan]

10. When people trumpet about how hard they worked and thus

how deserving they are of what they have, I think back on my experience in a corporate hq and wonder if "work" as a concept even exists. What goes on up there bears very little resemblance to laying tile or post-holing.

[tenshi816]

9. Hard work is good.

I could watch it for hours. :evilgrin:

[Jed Dilligan]

12. Let me guess...

Preferably when performed by large sweaty muscular half-naked

[tenshi816]

41. I hadn't thought about that really.

I was just being a smartass, but now that you mention it...

[bryant69]

11. Accepting one's lot is the clincher

You can't succeed under those terms - those who work their way to success don't accept their lot.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Jed Dilligan]

13. Smashing windows and robbing stores = not accepting one's lot.

Being a good janitor or Taco Bell cashier = accepting one's lot. Do you think anyone can succeed from either of these positions?

[bryant69]

15. Nope, those two both seem like losing propositions

Not sure what your point is though - surely there are more options out there?

[Jed Dilligan]

16. Not for a lot of people, and that's the point. nt

[bryant69]

19. Yeah.

We need to do more about poverty in this country, and ensuring that everybody get's their piece of the pie.

[Virginia Dare]

21. Wow...

you sound like some sort of commie pinko.:toast: :headbang:

[SmokingJacket]

17. Some of the hardest jobs pay the least, unfortunately.

And so do many of the most socially valuable jobs: nursing, nurses aides, childcare, etc.

Getting rich is often more a matter of focusing very hard on THE MONEY rather than on the quality of the work. Of course, there are lots of exceptions.

But I know that if I, personally, wanted to get rich, I would have to get into a field that doesn't interest me very much (corporate law, real estate, etc.) and sacrifice a huge amount of time with my family. It wouldn't be possible just doing my own thing, no matter how "hard" I worked.

[Jed Dilligan]

18. Unfortunately, those of us who chose friends/families/life over $$$

are now being asked by our corporate overlords to work as much as they "work."

[Virginia Dare]

22. I would add to the list...

police officers and fire fighters and others who literally put their lives on the line for menial pay. The first responders in my county can't even afford to live here. Virginia State Troopers qualify for food stamps. It's disgusting.

[maveric]

20. In my long and illustrious working career I've only had one boss who...

knew what they were doing and worth the money they were paid.
In my scope of work most in supervision positions are there because they "dont rock the boat", Are large and somewhat intimidating physically, or are in their position due to cronyism.

This boss I speak of was my nursing supervisor a year or so back. She was intelligent and actually stuck up for her people. The rest were either thugs, buddies or bootlickers.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. A bad habit. But, since retirement I'm recovering from it.

Although, it's alleged benefits are much vaunted by the bosses and the wealthy.

[DireStrike]

27. Work should be eliminated

If we could replace laborers with robots, and treat all people equally, that would be utopic.

[Jed Dilligan]

32. Well, laborers with robots is already happening

A lot of jobs lost to mechanization and technology in the past half-century. A bigger part of the population doesn't have to work in order to sustain the population. Do you think that these people should be artificially made to work, or supported out of taxes on the now-more-efficient corporations?

[Mythsaje]

33. I'd rather be writing...

Of course, that's work too, but at least it's work I enjoy.

[Jed Dilligan]

35. I have been, but not the stuff I want to write exactly

It's always a struggle to claim your space and time.

[Finder]

36. What do you want to write?

[Jed Dilligan]

40. Fiction nt

[Mythsaje]

42. I have deadlines now...

Have to get THAT done too...plus a day job, and book reviews and doing some web work for my wife's site.

And writing things for DU.

I'm getting stretched pretty thin and it's starting to wear on me.

Stupid day job.

Okay, that's it. Everyone on DU needs to buy at least one copy of one of my books so I can retire to write full time.

;)

[kwassa]

44. Work is the curse of the drinking classes.

said Oscar Wilde.

"I like work. It fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours"

W.C. Fields

"One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one’s work is terribly important."
- Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)

"I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying."
- Woody Allen (1935-)

"My father taught me to work; he did not teach me to love it."
-- Abraham Lincoln

"Hard work never killed anybody, but why take a chance?"
-- Edgar Bergen

"All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work."
-- Steve Martin