Official Alito Hearing Thread – Day 5 – Thread 4

[Viva_La_Revolution]

Thread 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x127816#128628

Thread 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x128888#129114

Thread 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x129722


Don't forget to call in to CSPAN after!

[EFerrari]

1. Who is listening besides Specter? Camera showed empty seats.

[Sydnie]

4. Other than making a statement to appear in the record, not

many. Leahey went back to Roesenbaum's memorial service. Don't know where anyone else is.

Specter is just waiting to hit the gym I think.

[springhill]

53. Can someone explain to me.......

how any of this testimony makes any damn difference if the judiciary committee isn't even required to listedn to it? Wow, wish I had a job like that.

[Sydnie]

2. I can't wait to read the written testimony submitted by Shaw

It should be good reading!

[WinkyDink]

3. STHU! Get to your point, man!

Limited time, and he spends it molly-coddling Alito supporters.

[Sydnie]

5. He submitted written testimony,

This will not be very hard hitting, imho.

[EFerrari]

6. I don't think so: he's very carefully delimiting his critique.

Alito said, look at my record, that's what we've done.

(So, no appeal to emotion or philosophy or tradition, just Alito's record.)

[DemonFighterLives]

12. Now mentioning his concerns

biggest- affirmatie action.
The issue is not asking for the fences to be moved in for Aaron, but being able to play.

[dogday]

7. He denied someone a right to a jury trial

a fundamental right for a citizen....

[CornField]

13. More than one time he did so

And, when the committee questioned him about it he said: "reasonable people can disagree on the facts"

He's exactly correct AND that's why we have juries, because reasonable people can disagree on the facts. For him to on one hand say it was a case in which no one could interpret the facts diffently and refuse a jury based on that, then turn around on the other hand and tell the committee that the facts of the case could be subject to disagreement is nothing short of a miscarriage of justice.

I hope those involved with those cases take tapes of his sworn testimony here and re-open based on it.

[EFerrari]

8. A cramped and narrow reading of Title 7. n/t

[sasha031]

9. good here he goes

against civil rights:hippie:

nice to see people apposing, break from yesterday

[EFerrari]

10. "We're not saying Alito is a racist. But for whatever reason,

. . .(unspoken: he rules as a racist would).

[Viva_La_Revolution]

I was thinking... oh crap! another baseball analogy!

But he pulled it off.

Alito says moving the fence in when Hank Aaron is at bat is not fair.

Shaw says it's not about moving the fence, it's about being allowed the opportunity to go to bat, to be allowed to play in the game.

:applause:

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. Legal Defense Fund./NAACP..doesn't support the racist either.

[adigal]

14. Area that is deeply troubling

Alito used to say about affirmative action that Henry Aaron would not be regarded as a home run king if the fences had been moved it. I think that shows a misunderstanding about affirmative action.

Wow! I cannot believe Alito said this! What a bastard.

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. Question time! This will be fun.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

41. sproutster's notes on Shaw

from the last thread

last witness - come to point - written testimony. request it be put into record.

Do not relish our decision. Take no position for fed courts - not here with pleasure. not challange int. or char. it takes us on low road where all diminished. Many fine people have testified both sides. imp people of good will will differ or take diff positions.

Nothing remarkable about collegues taking positions in support of this nom. Heady to know someone nom. They know him personal. Not about personality.

We are compelled to testify in opposition based on standard.

If you want to know, look at record - we have done, on basis that we have arrived at postition.

Want to encourage to read our report, it convinced us will cause substantial shift in civil rights.

In his 15 years - his records in civil right extremely troubled

emp discr African Americans - Twice
Grey case - Where JA took posit. to us, issue whether jury, if it should go to jury. found to be discrimintory, under law as maj saw it, and alot support. an inference can be drawn, jury would see discriminatory - JA worked hard to decide should not go to jury. symptamatic of Civil rights issues.

JA harbors a bias - we are not saying this. Whatever his reasons for ruling, record is consistantly clear and as report indicates.

Not just aa's woman and others civil rights

Want to point to deep concern.

The analagy of baseball popular. JA at one time, said - AA harlen alltime hero if the fences had been moved in by affirmative action. It's not about the fence being moved, it's about the tape and the opportunity to play the game. Fundimental diff to view world in regards to race today. No one wants to move fence today.

Told he will be certainly be confirmed - cannot take position based on hope, must take postion to oppose.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

42. sproutster's notes on Spector questions

also from thread 3

What view on race?

Mr shaw says not about personality, not about person. disagree - when testifying says has open mind. Treats everyone the same. Mentioned looks at every case with open mind. Not personal. Disagree is personal. on street only AA - can walk down street without being profiled - JA ruled on that

Do views of Judge lewis or mr white have any...

Agrees about these guys have good feelings about working with im - interrupted by spector.

Our view is based on record, writings, and rulings from bench - which have presented ultra conservative against woman minorities - pro employers --- shut down

Think if reject someone better?

recognize prez can pick whomever - but americans have right that he wont nominate extremest. His collegus -- interrupted...

What about womans issues and in favor of government
(to his clerks)

approached case - respect for law enforsement - treated defen in fair and open. Understand comments about personal - do think 15 year record to find what like and dislike - no opportunity to know him as she has...
testimony has shown, he always ruled fairly for little guy.

[EFerrari]

16. "We have taken a position based on his record, and we

reluctantly cannot support his nomination to the Supreme Court."

This is very powerful. They took Alito up on his own terms and rejected him out of hand.

[adigal]

17. Specter asking the double crosser Mr. White

a question about his view of blacks and whites.

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. Jack White...I cannot believe this guy. He OBVIOUSLY isn't stupid.

:wtf:

[adigal]

20. Why the hell is he a DEM witness??

Is he a double crosser??? WTF??

[adigal]

22. Specter: please let me show Alito is NOT

a racist?? Are the views of Judge Lewis or Mr. White impact your views?

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. I think they have Dems who support and Dems who don't. Now,

I don't know if the repukes invited the ScAlito supporting Dems or if the Dems did (I doubt it).

[DemonFighterLives]

30. They are mixed up -2 in this group support illeto

Kennedy coming now.

[EFerrari]

21. Not stupid, upwardly mobile. n/t

[Gregorian]

27. Yep.

That was my first thought. "I wonder where he's going?"


Yuck. This is so distasteful.


Aside from all of this, I hope everything's going well with you!

[EFerrari]

33. Thank you, Gregorian. We're just fine. And, I hope

you are doing well and not too soggily up there!

[Gregorian]

My creeks are raging.

But I'm high and dry. I'm very stressed out. Selling, but not knowing where I'm going next. It's consuming every moment of my life. Hey, it could be much worse. It's hard to see that way sometimes.

I'm so glad to know there's people like you, who are working to make this a better country. Let's all try to keep from bowing under the weight.

[EFerrari]

52. Being in mid sale is very stressful. Make sure you take

extra good care. :)

[yourout]

19. Uncle Jack White up again.

[DemonFighterLives]

24. Good one

No wonder Specter started with him. He is trying to counter the NBA and NAACP. Turner explaining =cut off to Wasserman-schulz

[Sparkman]

29. "I can walk down my ALL WHITE PEOPLE street, no profiling here" roflol

OF COURSE a rich lawyer like you, on a million dollar street, won't be profiled...but hey, drive your Lexus over in east los angele, and show us how progressive the U.S. law enforcement community performs...Rodney King and 50% Blacks in prison population!! Your so uncle tom, sir.

[doublethink]

54. Yea I caught that too and had to laugh.....

He might as well come out and said "I Am the Token 'Republican Black Man' in this set of witnesses. Thank You very much." :rofl:

[Straight Shooter]

70. If it weren't for people like Alito, the street wouldn't be ALL WHITE!

Think about that, you dipwad. Why are you the only wealthy black man on that street? And don't tell me it's because you worked hard and applied yourself, unless you want to be attacked by a mob of your own brothers and sisters.

[Mind_your_head]

23. Mr. White, former clerk for Alito

doesn't speak very well or have much of genuine substance to say, seems a bit of a 'dim bulb', imo. (Hes vouching for Alito) :eyes:

[Sparkman]

39. Dim and gin soaked, from his leisurly job as a lawyer...privelege and ...

a connected advocate with nothing to contribute or any study of DuLito's full racial/right wing/corporate alegance track record!

[CornField]

26. What is Specter up to with this "who would you rather have" questioning?

What's the point?

[EFerrari]

28. Distraction from Alito's record. n/t

[sasha031]

32. he doesn't let a opposing view finish what they are saying

he lets the clerk go on and on though

[dogday]

36. I noticed that too

Also the woman who clerked for him never truly answered the question about woman's rights. She knows he is a pig....

[adigal]

31. Arlen lets the kiss assers mumble away

Woman wished everyone on the committee could get to know him as I have. Blah, blah, blah.

[Sydnie]

34. Let's put it on hold for a year then and we'll all take a day

to work in his office, shall we?

[yourout]

35. Here is a new term for Alito.....stealth bigot.

Seems appropriate.

[EFerrari]

38. Yes. Bush has to appoint a bigot -- he's been promising his

base that for years now, in barely concealing terms.

[adigal]

40. Yes, the good Christians demand a bigot

against blacks, Hispanic immigrants and gays.

Usually, in my view, they come in the same package. Including some of my family and some friends.

[Sydnie]

43. Kate Pringle "Pick Me, Pick ME"

There should be more women on the court ....

[Sydnie]

45. White "Pick Me Pick ME"

In the absence of an African American ....

[DemonFighterLives]

49. but she is satisfied to wait another 10 -20 years

she likes illito that much.

[Surya Gayatri]

48. Ummm, nice turn of phrase.

Captures the spirit of his legal philosophy perfectly: bigotry expressed through excessive proceduralism--like when he said the innocent person under threath of execution would have to go through the "proper procedure" to defend his constitutional right not to be executed!!!
:wow: SG

Spelling edit

[adigal]

37. Kennedy interested in Turner's view about the case

with discrimination in the jury selection in which Alito found no cause to reject the death penalty case where Alito made a right hand/left hand analogy.

Now shut up, Ted, and let them talk.

[DemonFighterLives]

44. At least he is interested in all of their points

Down the line, they are giving their opinions and Kennedy is not cutting them off.

[Sparkman]

46. This Turner guy makes me want to reply to jury summons,instead of trash em

They just won't put me on a jury, so I won't go anymore. Inlaws a cop, past deeds...I'm precluded from participating. AND jury selection is exactly why the legalism folks, that would throw a pot smoker in jail, have filled the most populated prison system in history. We beat communist china and south africa and even India, with it's 600 million.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

47. Leahy is back, asking questions now

Asking Rep. Debbie about Terri Shrivo case :)

[EFerrari]

50. Bringing up Shiavo case and Congressional intrusion

into a family tragedy -- attacking the independence of the judiciary.

[CornField]

51. Shaw (?) just made a nice point

The fellow from the Legal Defense Fund. He said (paraphrasing), "The court has been closely divided on matters of civil rights, often with O'Connor casting that tie-breaking vote. Now, her vote didn't always come down the way we wanted it to, but we always knew her vote was in play."

[Sydnie]

55. Specter is going to say how he is going to vote???

this is getting interesting ....

[CornField]

56. Specter is going to announce his vote shortly

[DemonFighterLives]

57. My bet is he's going for Alito

:cry:

[Sydnie]

59. Notice he mentioned his committtee and his party but never

mentioned his VOTERS! Don't they matter Arlen?

[DemonFighterLives]

61. Voters- what're they?

Only party loyalty matters the sheep will come around.

[gkhouston]

62. Sheep have teeth.

and sharp hooves. And some of them don't like being fleeced.

[Sydnie]

64. And some of them are not white! n/t

[gkhouston]

65. ROFLMAO. n/t

[adigal]

60. If Leahy votes for Alito

after hearing what we heard, we are finished.

[DemonFighterLives]

63. Hopefully he will oppose just to keep us involved

There are enough votes for.

[Surya Gayatri]

71. If he does,

he'd better expect one helluva fight when he comes up for re-election. He has made public pledges as being in favor of pro-choice. Opportunistic turncoat. SG

[CornField]

58. Schedule

Executive Session - Jan. 17th, 11 a.m.

18-19-20 -- Floor debate, vote on the 20th

[in_cog_ni_to]

69. AH! Dems may ask for MORE time! Which is THEIR right!

It throws the whole Senate schedule off!:evilgrin:

[Sydnie]

72. DAMN MLK and his holiday! n/t

[gkhouston]

80. given how long a justice serves and all the questions that

have not been answered, that doesn't seem unreasonable. Hell, if nothing else, they need a few days to digest the information that Alito was supposed to "think about" and then provide in writing.

[in_cog_ni_to]

66. What are they doing? Trying to work out the shedule? n/t

[DemonFighterLives]

75. i think it is schmoozing enjoying old times

Let's have dinner - final item-

drum roll
Spector votes to support illito
:thumbsdown:
He said he borked bork though :rofl:

[Sydnie]

67. See what happens when you assume Specter?

You make an ass out of yourself!

[dogday]

68. Perfect example why Justice moves so slow...........eom

[CornField]

74. No doubt -- you'd think they were soccer moms trying to rush kids to

dance lessons and Girl Scouts. *sheesh*

[Surya Gayatri]

92. Just what's wrong

with government--chummy backroom arrangements among hoary old sealions, jealousy guarding their perks and privileges. LIMIT TERMS IN THE CONGRESS!! SG

[adigal]

73. Arlen is in between doing what is right

and doing what Bush is demanding. Bush wants his guy NOW, whine, shout, stamp feet, leave room.

I am SO glad that Leahy and Specter are so chummy.

GRRRRRR!!

[CornField]

What is Specter saying?

He will vote yes in committee, but no on the floor?

[Sydnie]

84. That's what it sounds like to me

He is keeping his promise to blivet** to get him a hearing and out of committee, but what he does on the floor will be on his own. No deals made for his vote there.

[in_cog_ni_to]

76. BASTARD SPECTER SUPPORTS ALITO! What an ASSHOLE!!!

:nuke: So much for being PRO-CHOICE!:grr:

[Sydnie]

79. Is he saying that he is voting to send it to the floor but

won't vote for him on the Senate floor?

Yes! That is what he is saying.

[in_cog_ni_to]

86. HE IS????!!!! Is he REALLY saying that?

or is he saying he hasn't decided? Damn...I thought he just said he supported him and was going to vote for him? :spank:

[Sydnie]

94. going to vote to get him out of committee

but wouldn't say if he would votge to support on the floor. Seems to me that he just might vote against him on the floor. He knows what he has promised his voters and he knows he is dead meat if this guy gets in with a yea in the Specter slot.

[gkhouston]

87. it will go to the floor no matter what they vote in committee

No on the floor but yes in committee is worth more than no in the committee and yes on the floor, IMO.

[in_cog_ni_to]

93. TRUE! n/t

[Mind_your_head]

90. Is that what he's saying???

*I hope*

[adigal]

77. Specter - PRO CHOICE Senator is voting for

Coat-Hanger Alito!!

[sasha031]

81. shut up Spector

you don't care about people...is Leahy going to announce

[sproutster]

78. Spector approving his appointment - Suprize Suuprize

[sasha031]

83. is Leahy going to say 1 way or other

[Anita Garcia]

85. blah, blah

He is sooooo verbose.

[adigal]

82. Specter voting him out - not voting for him yet?

although he only seems to be voting to send his nomination to the floor. Yes, No??? He is not saying how he will vote on his nomination.

OK, I take it back

[CornField]

89. That's what I heard -- he wants it to go the floor, so he's voting him out

But he has not stated how his going to vote on the floor.

Specter needs to be careful -- he's on very shaky ground with his base if he votes yes on the floor.

[in_cog_ni_to]

91. WTF is he saying? I'm confused!

:cry:

[helderheid]

97. me too!!

[sasha031]

98. he is driving me crazy

:argh:

[dogday]

88. Said Miers was run out of town on a rail........

[dogday]

95. Spector is confusing me..........

[in_cog_ni_to]

100. LOL....join the crowd. I guess we'll have to listen to a legal eagle on

C-SPAN after this is over.:) Maybe THEY can explain it.:crazy:

[sproutster]

96. OMFG ... more open then any other "in a sense" because WOULDNT

answer about stuff that might come before court.

[yourout]

99. Spector said Alito said alot...

even more than most.

He said alot of NOTHING!

[CornField]

101. Okay, I'm gonna have the read the transcript on this one

Specter simply rambles, doesn't he?

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

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[Moderator]

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