Didn't the European powers ever hear "Won't Get Fooled Again?"

[Armstead]

There ws just a big announcement that the European Powers (plus China nd Russia) have gone along with the Bush Ultimatum to Iran. "Do what we say or else."

I honestly don't know what to make of it. Do they see a real threat from Iran? Or are they just being poodles?

I don't want to be defending the Iranian regime. But this seems too much like a few years ago, when Sadaam was in the cross-hairs of the US Neo-Cons....Turned out that the whole rationale given by the US to the world to drum up "support" for an invasion of Iraq was wrong and/or dishonest.

So why are the other world powers once again following Bush's lead in taking us to the brink of war yet again? Is it honest solidarity against a real threat? Or has Bush gotten away with another neoCON Job?

[Buns_of_Fire]

1. Perhaps they're just giving him a lot of rope this time (n/t)

[Selatius]

2. They agree that Iran shouldn't have nukes, but...

the question about having the ability to make uranium fuel for your reactors is the sticking point, and they're trying to hammer that out.

They'd be on the same page if it was an issue of Iran having nukes, but that's not the issue at this point. The issue is the ability to process uranium. There is worry that ability could be turned towards making highly enriched uranium for an a-bomb. Bush says they do it to make the bomb, but Iran says they're doing it for fuel for their reactors. The Europeans seem more willing to allow Iran that ability if it is monitored by, for example, the IAEA.

A wildcard, though, is Bush fucking up the whole process by shooting first after saying that we've given them enough time to disarm and that all peaceful remedies have been exhausted, or something happens like a Tonkin Gulf Incident that gives the Neocons the diplomatic cover to hit Iran.

[Armstead]

4. That's what I'm thinking

The goal of controlling proliferation -- especially to a dubious regime -- is worth pursuing.

But I have this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that wht you mentioned will happen. Bush will jump the gun -- literally -- and take us into another needless war for dubious reasons.

I just hope the leaders of otehr nations are not getting bamboozled by the US.

[sweetheart]

3. Old europe never believed in the slave rebellion

AKA Lincoln's union... and no matter the fluffy label "new europe",
europe is old. Now with the elites firmly enfranchised, and a new and
old monarchy working off the same playbook, its imperialism pie, we've
been transported back 100 years in time before WW1 to the era of
competing empires, where bilateral defense aggreements stitch the world
together.

I don't believe bush has the political capital at the pentagon to do such
an evil deed again. If they dont' stop the evil fuck, then they're
not worthy of their pledge to defend the constitution from enemies
domestic and foreign.

[Avalux]

5. Actually, it'll be worse this time.

At least for Iraq, France and Germany wouldn't support us. This time they're jumping in with both feet. Now Bush will be able to say he has complete support when he decides to bomb Iran.

[Selatius]

6. Yes, but we'll be dealing with Russia and China against us

If what you say plays out, then the US/UK, France, and Germany will square off against Iran and Iran's supporters, Russia and China. Gonna be one hell of a "chess match" if something like that happened.

[Avalux]

7. Not sure about Russia and China.

They're in on the package - so they're in support thus far. If Bushco makes it worth their while to look the other way ($$ promises) - they won't interfere.

[Selatius]

9. They would, I believe, especially China

Since China has invested billions in those Iranian oil fields to feed its insatiable economy. They're going to protect their investments, and Iran is a Russian client-state when it comes to military technology and weapons.

The Russians and Chinese won't do anything if Bush doesn't attack, but if he does, then they're going to be upset.

[tritsofme]

8. A nuclear Iran is a bigger problem for Europe than us.

Iran doesn't have ICBMs, but acquiring medium range missiles that could possibly hit Paris wouldn't be completely out of the question.