My Hillary Prediction

[iconoclastNYC]

She drops out and throws her support behind the DLC'er with the best shot to win (as oppososed to a real Democrat like Feingold, Gore, Dean, Kucinich, Boxer, etc)

Bill are Hill are both tools of the Wall Street big money status-quo elite.

[PWRinNY]

1. You're implying she has something to drop out of

The only thing she is running for is Senate re-election.

[iconoclastNYC]

3. She's the front runner for 2008

Pick up a newspaper.

[PWRinNY]

5. That's the media

Hillary has not announced a 2008 presidential run. Until she does, she does not have a presidential run to drop out of.

[iconoclastNYC]

7. R i i i gh t.

[Swamp Rat]

17. Well, that's what Tweety says all the time, but I don't believe it.

I do not know one human being in New Orleans that even likes her a little.

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Nope. I'm gonna go with "you've been hoodwinked".

She's only the "front runner" on FOX and in Rush Limbaugh's wet dreams.

[Totally Committed]

6. I disagree...

I hear that last night there was a series (nationally) of house parties for her Presidential Campaign. Stephanie Miller talked about them this morning. Bill introduced her on the group phone call to all the donors and supporters who showed up.

She's running, and not just for the Senate.

To claim that is to be as disingenuous as she is being with the voters of NY, if that's what she tells them. She never means to finish her term if she's elected.

TC

[iconoclastNYC]

8. Meet her opposition in the NY Senate primary

She has opposition in the primary.

JOHN TASINI -- VOTE FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN

http://www.tasinifornewyork.org/

[BlueManDude]

2. She hasn't even dropped in yet

I agree though - in the end she won't run.

That won't keep the RW from speculating about her right up until whomever gets the nomination accepts the nomination.

[NewJeffCT]

10. It wouldn't surprise me if she ended up not running

If Hillary ended up not even entering the race, or dropping out early. The media made Mario Cuomo to be the 800 pound gorilla among Democrats a while back and he ended up not running. This could be a similar situation with the senator from NY.

Hillary's only strength is that she's already been through a media meat grinder since 1991 or so and has survived and I think any trashing of her will just end up looking over the top. Other recent prominent Democrats have not held up so well under the harsh glare of the corporate media - Al Gore, John Kerry, Mike Dukakis, etc.

[PWRinNY]

11. I'm with you

I don't care to eat my words later, and I may, but I really don't think she'll run.

[madmunchie]

18. I'm with you to, I don't really think that she will run, I think that she

is deflecting attention from the other possible candidates on purpose. Let the GOP focus on her all that they want and then when the real candidate emerges, well, lets see them change course overnight - AND I for one want to see them all eat crow.

[Faygo Kid]

4. She won't drop out. But, it's too early to say.

Much water can pass over the dam yet. I will focus on the here and now (gore in 08 - shhh).

[Tace]

9. She Wants The Campaign $$$

She "won't run" until she's landed every campaign dollar possible.

[Extend a Hand]

12. I don't think she has a chance of getting the Dem nomination UNLESS...

she says from the beginning that she is running with Bill as VP...then maybe she has a chance (assuming that she runs). I hope the Dem nominee is



:patriot: AL GORE 2008 :patriot:

[Scoody Boo]

13. Bill can't be VP.

The way the primaries are run, she stands a chance of winning the early ones and then basically having an insurrmountable lead before the primaries even get going in earnest. That is what happened with John Kerry last time.

[iconoclastNYC]

20. Yes I'm worried about that too

There needs to be some sort of site where you can sign up to move to Iowa and New Hampshire to camapaign for the stop-Hillary candidate. If Hillary gets the nomination not only will I not vote for her, I'll give up on our party because of the fucked up (read anti-democratic) way we do primaries.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. Actually, he could. It won't happen, but there's nothing in the

Constitution to prevent it.

[Scoody Boo]

52. Actually it is in the Constitution...

the Vice President has to be eligible to serve as Presdident. Bill, having served two full terms already, is disqualified from being President. Consequently, he can't be Vice President either.

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Although it's hardly the authoritative source, Wikipedia's got it

Up For Grabs. It's a good question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States

The Vice President must be a natural-born citizen of the United States, at least thirty-five years of age and a resident of the U.S. for 14 years. The Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution requires vice presidents to meet the same requirements as presidents, and the 22nd amendment limits presidents to being elected to only two terms.

It is, however, debated whether a former two-term president could be elected Vice President since the 22nd amendment doesn’t limit a president to serving two terms; it only prevents him from being elected to more than two terms.

According to one interpretation a two term president could be elected to the vice-presidency and then serve another term in the presidency if the elected president died or was removed from office. The 22nd amendment only forbids election to, not service in, the presidency more than twice. In such a circumstance the two-term president turned vice president would still be elected to the presidency twice.

[hfojvt]

63. that's pretty much what I thought

since, I believe, Gerald Ford could have been elected in 1976 and re-elected in 1980.

It would seem odd to me for a former Pres to run as veep, but there was a whole bunch of talk in 1980 about Reagan trying to get Ford to run as his veep. I am not sure if anyone from either Reagan or Ford has said if that was true, or if it was just media speculation at the time.

[ronnykmarshall]

14. Jesus H Christ

:eyes:

[iconoclastNYC]

21. Thanks for elevating the discourse.

[ronnykmarshall]

38. No problem.

I aim to please.

[SaveElmer]

15. My prediction...

Hillary wins the nomination and the election...and all of the self dubbed "real" Democrats - you know, the ones who threaten to bolt the party everytime someone takes a position opposite theirs - will be chowin down on a big helping of Crow - the day after they voted to put her into office!!!

[iconoclastNYC]

22. Wow.

Hillary basically takes every position opposite mine, she's a corporate sell out trinagulator.

She speaks in Republican talking points.

She's pro-war.

She doesn't talk about the stolen elections of 2000 and 2004.

She hob-knobs with Fox news and Murdoch.

Hillary cares more about appealing to right-wing then the left wing and thats why she's pretty much everyone's last pick except people who've worked for them and think they'll get plum assignments in her administration.

[SaveElmer]

24. Hillary votes the Democratic position 95% of the time...

She receives top, or near top ratings from groups advocating for children, veterans, women, minorities, labor, Civil Rights, and the environment...

And she has a lifetime 95 rating from the ADA...


The only people who take positions opposite from hers are Republicans...you aren't one of those are you?

[iconoclastNYC]

25. If you disagree with Hillary you MAY BE A REPUBLICAN

If she's such a great Democrat why all the antipathy from the lefties like me and just about anyone else who runs a blog or comments on DU? Why does she get like 4% in all the strawpolls online? I mean afterall she's such a great Democrat.

She basically sucks up the right wing. She's not a fighter. She's not a leader. She's a tool of entrenched power, she carries water for the status quo, and she the poster child for the corrupt and corrosive DLC.

She's a failure as a Senator (try getting constitutient services from her), a carpetbagger, and she's goign to attempt to vacate her senate seat after only serving 1/3rd of her term.

She wants to ban flag burning b/c it might make some crazy wingers vote for her.

And she cant admit that she was fooled about the need to go to war.

She'd be a horrible unelectable candidate.

She'll either not run or run and drop out and lend her support to whatever DLC toady has the best chance of being crowned the electable democrat by the corporate media.

[SaveElmer]

28. Group think...

And a prediliction on the part of hardliners on either end of the spectrum to demand purity in their politicians.

And I have to say you have an excellent talent for stringing the tired, worn out anti Hillary talking points into a semi-coherent sentance.

She is a great Democrat based on the facts...

She is an excellent Senator as her popularity and imminent reelection attest...and the respect she garners from her colleagues.

And to characterize her support based on the straw polls taken on DU and other left wing blogs is laughable...DU is about as representative of the majority of Democrats as Hollywood is of middle America.

Great, another member of the Democratic "base" who hates Democrats!!

[iconoclastNYC]

29. Popularity?

If she can't win the base of the Democratic activists she shouldn't win the nomination period.

Hillary is a hack and only her sychophants disagree.

The reason she enjoys support in NYS is because she carpetbagged into here with a super high name ID and Bill's Rolodex.

[SaveElmer]

31. Do you ever resort to facts...

Or are you pre-programmed to spew the same discredited bile everytime someone disagrees with you.

[iconoclastNYC]

34. Are you saying she didn't carpet bag into NYS?

There was an open seat and she was gifted the nomination from party insiders.

[SaveElmer]

36. SO then...

I assume you express the same outrage at RFK for "carpetbagging" into New York to run for Senate.

Oh by the way...and I may just be imagining it....but I believe Hillary actually got more votes than Rick Lazio...

[ronnykmarshall]

39. Oh Elmer, Elmer, Elmer!

You need to wake up and smell the ....... uh COFFEE, Hillary is the spawn of satan! Did you read 'the memo'?

[SaveElmer]

42. Well you know...with "The Omen" coming out and all...

I think a Hillary candidacy would be a good tie in...

I heard she is gonna announce her Presidential bid on June 6, 2006...

[oasis]

32. "Hillary's a hack"? Dean, Boxer, and Feingold would all disgree. Are

they her sychopants? :shrug:

[ronnykmarshall]

40. Hillary used her satanic powers

to make them like her.

[Samantha]

26. Here's someone who opposes her position on the war and I am not

a Republican. She made an egregious mistake when she put her John Henry on that authorization to use his discretion to go to war she gave Bush*. She simply tried to justify it at the time as "that was a difficult one."

It sure would not have been a "difficult one" for many of us here. Most people here were so tuned in to what Bush* was the moment he stepped into the limelight. Most people here would not have considered for a moment giving him that kind of authority.

She can never take it back. She's never apologized for this mistake. She continues to utter than inane "stay the course" phrase (drives me up the wall) and she panders to the so-called disaffected Republican conservatives as well as the Independents. If she runs, she will leave the base behind because she has crunched the numbers. There are fewer base votes to be had than the sum total she calculates she can get from the conservative Republicans coupled with the Independents.

I am not 100% sure she will run; she's keeping her options open as is Al Gore. However, shortly before the 2004 race, a poll taken among Dems gave Gore over a 50 share to her 19% share. If they both end up going for it, most of the base will line up behind Gore and the party elites will back Hillary. So it will be decision-making time for many, many people but if Hillary truly thinks she can take this without the base, I think she is seriously mistaken.

[SaveElmer]

30. You mischaracterize her positions...

As most do...

I suggest you read her statement to the U.S. Senate explaining her vote for the IWR if you want a fuller explanation...

http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

She has been harshly critical of Bush's conduct of the war, and does not advocate a "stay the course" approach.

Her popularity not only in New York, but in poll after poll belie your contention that she is leaving the "base" behind.

What is your definition of the "base." Here at DU it seems to be that element of the party who are constantly threatening to jump ship....

Seeing as I have never voted Republican, never will, and work to elect Democrats I would consider myself the base.

[Samantha]

45. You are mistaken

I saw her on a newscast utter those very words: "stay the course." I am not making this up, nor did I read it. I saw her interview; I heard her words. I am not mischaracterizing her position on anything -- she's trying to play both sides of the aisle, ala John Kerry style. Hillary is deliberately ambivalent in order to comport to the definition of a "centrist." And she's not very good at it.

I used to admire the woman, but that was BEFORE she became a professional politician.

I do not believe as time goes by and the field narrow, Hillary will poll highly against other candidates. If Al Gore announces he's in, you must remember shortly before he withdrew from running in 2004, he was polling over 50% among the Democratic base, and Hillary was running far, far behind at a mere 19%. There is no way, if Gore jumps in Hillary will match him, or come anywhere near it, in favorability among the base. That's my opinion, and I do not think there should be any problem with our simply disagreeing on this issue.

My definition of the base is everyone outside that small ring which considers itself "the elite." That includes, but is not simply defined as, the DLC. Bill Clinton controls the DLC, and its favorite candidate of the hour is Hillary. I think much of the "little people" who have very passionate positions on hot button issues are not likely to support a lukewarm centrist beckoning to the opposite side of the political spectrum, i.e., dissatisfied Republicans and Independents. Once again, there should be no problem with our simply disagreeing over this. We are both entitled to our opinions. But I want you to know I am not a Hillary basher or trasher -- I did sincerely used to like her, but I simply no longer respect her .... She's allowed politics and ambition to muddy the essence of what used to make her a standout kind of a person.

[SaveElmer]

54. Three words...

Link please...I have no context in which to place them...

However her position on the IWR is well expressed Here

And her current position, one with which I agree, is Here

Hillary is no more a professional politician than any of the other potential candidates of the party. She is positioning herself publically to present a more moderate face to a country as a whole that views her as a left wing whacko. Something she will have to do (in fact what every Presidential candidate does), in order to appeal to enough people to win. Sad, but the nature of American Politics. If you look at her policy positions, votes etc., you will see she has the same commitment to progressive issues she always has had.

btw: I appreciate the civility and intelligence of your reply.

[Clark2008]

64. My favorite's not a politician... so there.

And mine advised HER not to go to war... point number two.

And mine could actually flip a red state...point number three.

Just wanted to point out that not everyone planning to maybe run is a career politician.

[Stephanie]

46. enduring bases

Letter to Constituents on Iraq Policy

http://www.clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/index.cfm?topic=iraqletter

I do not believe that we should allow this to be an open-ended commitment without limits or end. Nor do I believe that we can or should pull out of Iraq immediately. I believe we are at a critical point with the December 15th elections that should, if successful, allow us to start bringing home our troops in the coming year, while leaving behind a smaller contingent in safer areas with greater intelligence and quick strike capabilities. This will advance our interests, help fight terrorism and protect the interests of the Iraqi people.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. Hey. How about swingin' by some of the Haditha threads?

We're looking for a few Iraq war apologists to explain what the fuck is up with that.

[SaveElmer]

53. Another typical tactic...

Of the purist. Like the hard right, everything is black and white.

In this case, because you cannot conceive anyone could have a policy difference with you and not be motivated by evil intention, those that voted for the IWR are morally culpable for anything bad that happens in Iraq

This is of course inanity. As in law, motivation is relevent. Hillary Clinton is no more responsible for Haditha than FDR is for killings by soldiers of surrendering Germans. The rogue action of soldiers is not a result of the specific policy, but war itself. The same thing happens whether the war is just or not. Thus those that are culpable are those that initiated this policy for dishonest reasons. Hillary Clinton is not among them. She did not vote for the IWR for the same reason, that we now know, George Bush initiated the war. Her motivation, and the motivation of all other Democrats that voted for it, are well represented by her floor statement, which you might wanna read. You can find it Here

She took the issue seriously, and made her judgement based on the facts as presented to Congress, and her judgement as to the best course of action. George Bush on the other hand, initiated the War based on a simplistic view of religious conversion, a childlike view of Democracy, for purposes of revenge, and to aid the bottom line of his corporate sponsors. And he used deceit, half-truths, and outright lies to convince the Congress and the country to go along.

Hillary has been sharply critical of Bush's conduct of the war, and falsification of intelligence which led us there. Her position on our continued involvement, one which I agree with, is expressed Here

George Bush is responsible for the mess we are in there now, and any disastrous consequences that flow from that are his responsibility.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. "Typical tactic"? You mean, like comparing Iraq to WWII?

Here. Leaving aside the eight, four, and one year old children shot "execution style" while certain members of our party dither and diddle and futz around this clusterfuck of a quagmire without ever saying the four magic words "Bring the Troops Home Now", I will put it very simply for you. Without all the nuance.

Hillary's position on the war makes her unacceptable as a Presidential nominee to me, and a great many others in the party. PERIOD.

John Kerry, although he has said some admirable things about Iraq since the '04 election, tried to run against Bush and Bush's war - a war he himself voted for. This was supposed to make him, according to the "conventional wisdom" gang in our party that are so full of themselves, a stronger candidate. In fact, it made him -and his moral authority on the matter- weaker.

There are plenty of more than capable people in our party who aren't saddled with the bullshit baggage of trying to have it both ways on Iraq, folks who haven't spent the past six years engaged in Neo-Con pandering.

Folks who are smart, folks who are talented, and folks who are more interested in doing what's RIGHT than in crude and transparent political gameplaying and triangulation.

Folks who understand that the ENVIRONMENT is the NUMBER ONE national security issue facing this nation today.



That's where the smart money is looking for 2008. We'll be happy to welcome you onboard the train when you come around.

[SaveElmer]

58. No refutation of my argument...

A repeat of the same diatribe that has been posted before...just in different language...

The same dishonest blame game...the same inflexible inability to believe that someone can take an honest stand in disagreement with yours...

The same arrogant belief that your stand is the only legitimate one possible...and the usual threat to not support one Democrat or another...all the while considering yourself "the base"

The same naive belief that somehow our candidate in 2008 will win without getting into the muck and mire of Presidential Politics...

These are characteristics of both the hard left and the hard right..

Of course this is DU...the land where Dennis Kucinich actually had a chance to win...

.

[Warren DeMontague]

59. "blame game"? Is that you, Karl?

I don't think, as we read about one year old children shot in cold blood- not in the abstract "muck and mire of Presidential politics" but in the REAL Blood and Cruelty of an illegal, ill-advised war based on a shoddy set of cheap lies-- that my stand is the "only legitimate one possible". But I do think it is the RIGHT one, it is the MORAL one. And like I said, the apologists for this war, the people who dither and ditz and fuck around the edges while more innocents die, they have to look themselves in the mirror in the morning. But I'm sure as shit not going to apologize for not going overboard to hand control of OUR party to them when they haven't come within 100 light-years of earning it lately.

In case you haven't noticed, the "hard right" CONTROLS this country. They've managed to do just fine without selling out their base. Unless you cling to another cheap, shoddy lie, that George W. Bush is somehow a "moderate".

It's not about "muck and mire", it's about consistency and being able to clearly stand up for unambiguous moral positions. See, some folks think that the American People WANT "nuance", they want someone who can "finesse" the Iraq war, explaining in great detail about why the war is bad but also good and why they voted for it but are running against it.

I have to wonder what the hell they've been smoking, but there it is.

As for Dennis Kucinich, the wonderful thing about the internet is that you can find all kinds of things that people once wrote. Why don't you go back to Summer and Fall of 2004 on DU and see who, precisely, it was that I was supporting in the primaries back then?

I'll wait.

In the meantime -news flash- I never thought Kucinich had a chance to win, nor was I a backer. But 2008 isn't going to be 2004, and Al Gore sure as SHIT isn't Dennis Kucinich. Not only do I know he has a "chance" to win, I think he's gonna clean the clocks of all comers. The candidate who I am convinced doesn't have a chance to win is a certain First Term Senator from New York (someone whom I support in that continued capacity, by the way) a Senator that, for some crazy reason, a small minority demands to have prematurely crowned the 2008 nominee.

[SaveElmer]

60. Why do you find it IMPOSSIBLE to stick to the subject...

However you brilliantly demonstrate the points I was trying to make, so thank you for that.

And you have added a couple more...

First, accusing those that disagree with the points you make of bening a Republican...see that one on here all the time.

Second, making statements as though they are fact though clearly wrong. Fact is, Hillary supporters are only a minority here and on other left leaning blags. Among rank and file Democrats she is quite popular.

Third, taking generalized statements, and trying to disprove them by claiming they don't apply to you, so they are therefore false. And of course I never said you supported Dennis Kucinich, it was used as a demonstration that DU is both more left leaning than most Democrats, and that DU is often severely out of touch with what is possible politically..

[Warren DeMontague]

61. Huh?

You must be arguing with someone else.

Find where I accused you of being a Republican. C'mon. Do it.

Hillary's "popularity" among rank and file Democrats according to whom? If they're not on DU, where do these legions of Democrats who think running her for President in 2008 would be such a great idea live? In FOX NEWS polls (which invariably leave out Al Gore) that get Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh excited by calling her the "front runner"? Are they hiding in Rupert Murdoch's Hillary-fundraising pants?

I think a lot of us might have thought a hypothetical HRC campaign sounded like a good idea in, say, 2000. Or in 1993. Now? Nope.

Lastly, as far as "not sticking to the subject", I can understand why you might be a little reticent to talk about Iraq-- and Haditha. However, that is CENTRAL to this whole debate- and it's why- I hate to disappoint you- Hillary (unless she makes up a lot of ground in a relatively short amount of time, integrity-wise) Clinton is NOT going to be the Next President of the United States.

[SaveElmer]

62. Look at your subject line

"Is that you Karl?" Unless you are talking about Karl Marx I know full well to whom you are referring.

I am absolutely not reticent about talking about Iraq and Haditha...there are plenty of threads on Iraq and Haditha, and I join in them frequently. However, that was not the subject of my posts on this thread.

Hillary is the most popular Democrat in poll after poll....I have several links if you would like to see them!

[Warren DeMontague]

66. Please post a link to a poll containing AL GORE that shows her

as the front runner.

That, I'd like to see.

Polls at this stage don't prove much, of course... but no doubt you've seen this one already.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1352779

I know that's "just" DU, but don't you wonder what the hell happened to make her so unpopular? Can you entertain -just for a second- that her neo-con pandering and equivocation, particularly around Iraq- may not have been such a great idea at this particular political and social juncture for this nation?

I asked "That you, Karl?" because you talked about me playing the "blame game". If you remember Hurricane Katrina, "blame game" was a Right Wing/Rovian talking point that quickly made it out to the mass media, so much so that on one single evening on CNN, I counted three pundits, two anchors, Scotty Maclellan AND Poppy ALL saying "blame game".

If I still drank, I would have made it into a drinking game. You know, drink whenever they say blame game. The blame game game.

But I digress. You're not a Republican, and I was not suggesting you are- I was questioning your use of a very worn out Karl Rove phrase. But good Democrats such as yourself should see the very major problems facing a HRC campaign, and ask yourself why the folks rooting hardest for her to run all seem to be right wing AM radio pundits.

[SaveElmer]

67. I see severe problems with anyone who runs...

The perceived problems are just that, perceived. Hillary has more experience beating back the rw sleaze machine than any potential candidate. She polls as the number one Democrat right now, and has high approval numbers. And she is about to be reelected in a landslide.

In every instance where she is savagely attacked she comes out of it more popular than when they started. Can you imagine her crumbling like Kerry did in the face of Swift Boat type attacks?

As to the polls...

FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. March 14-15, 2006. N=900 registered voters nationwide.

"If the 2008 Democratic presidential primary were held today, for whom would you vote if the candidates were ?" Names rotated. Among Democratic voters; MoE ± 5

3/14-15/06 9/27-28/05 6/14-15/05
% % %
Hillary Rodham Clinton
43 42 44

Al Gore
12 11 n/a

WNBC/Marist Poll. Feb. 13-15, 2006. Asked of Democrats and Democratic leaners nationwide. MoE ± 5.

"If the 2008 Democratic presidential primary were held today, whom would you support if the candidates are ?"

2/13-15/06
%
Hillary Clinton
33

Al Gore
17

CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. Feb. 9-12, 2006. N=429 Democrats and Democratic leaners nationwide who are registered to vote. MoE ± 5.


"Next, I'm going to read a list of people who may be running in the Democratic primary for president in the next election. After I read all the names, please tell me which of those candidates you would be most likely to support for the Democratic nomination for president in the year 2008, or if you would support someone else. Delaware Senator Joe Biden; New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton; former North Carolina senator John Edwards; former vice president Al Gore; Massachusetts Senator John Kerry; former Virginia governor Mark Warner." Names rotated

%
Hillary Rodham Clinton
39

John Kerry
15

Al Gore
13

Thanks for clarifying tha Karl comment...

[Warren DeMontague]

68. Fair enough.

I still think Al Gore is the stronger candidate. I don't trust FOX NEWS as far as I can throw 'em. And as bears repeating, I have always liked Hillary - I liked her in 1992, I like her now. But I think we need someone with a clearer stance on Iraq. Like choice, I think that's gonna be a deal-breaker for a lot of folks.

Peace.

[SaveElmer]

70. Thanks...

I really don't expect everyone to agree with me on Hillary. I just wish sometimes that there was less of the ultimatum type statements here.

Fact is I am a huge Al Gore fan - always have been - and I would have absolutely no problem supporting him. In fact there is not one potential Democratic candidate that I would not support wholeheartedly. It's just that I see a certain inner strength in Hillary that I don't see, or haven't seen in some of the other candidates. I think that is a quality required in a candidate and a President.

To defeat the right wing sleaze machine, it takes a certain ruthlessness that recent Democratic candidates seem to be a bit sueamish about displaying. I suspect if Gore or Kerry were to get the nod, having gone through the wringer once , they might have more of an instinct for the jugular that Hillary has acquired being attacked by the righties for 14 years.

I don't trust Fox news in their reporting either, but their polls have been pretty consistent with most of the others.

[BuyingThyme]

16. I predict Hillary-Lieberman.

Neocons.

[Bucky]

27. I'll vote Zell Millar and Ben Nighthorse Campbell in '08

Can do Dems!!!

[katty]

44. Hillary-Lieberman-ha! DOA

[WI_DEM]

19. I think she may not even run in 2008

[sweetheart]

23. What's with the negative branding

She's a proven track record in progressive concerns and is playing
the good old boy's game figuring that it is the best way to gain
the mainstream, to walk in to that republican midde, where the
progressive caucus starts to throw hissy fits.

Its a sign she has the political wherewithal to really run, and as well,
to really win. We've not seen her run yet, but i've got a feeling
that she is a fine fine candidate, one that would do us right proud,
and i'll have no part of trashing her.

I have to wonder what people are up to, trashing the top contender
in advance of even a hat in the ring. Unless you're planning to run,
then i'd say its a bit cowardly to shit on the people.

Your post pisses me off, just cuz you're shitting on potentially
a first female US president before she even fucking runs.

Can we stop with the circular firing squad?

[Rowdyboy]

33. You ignore how wonderful it feels to feel superior and be able to disdain

the lower classes. I echo every word of your post. She is a strong, brilliant, and extremely polarizing potential candidate. I honestly PRAY she won't run, but I refuse to join in the demonization of Hillary. I disagree with her on Iraq and I feel she's made several major policy missteps, but I'd vote for her as president in a New York second. She's so far above any Republican president of the last century that it hurts.

[ronnykmarshall]

41. I'll second that.

I LOVE Hillary and the Hil-Bashers can join Mary Cheney in my sig line.

I also don't want her to run however. I think that a HUGE part of the bashing of her is due to sexism. The freeps hate her because she's a powerful, intellegent woman and there for she "must be destroyed". The DU Hil-haters Club can't stand someone that isn't 100% in lock step with their beliefs and are no better than Freepers when it comes to someone not towing the party line.

Do I agree with Hillary 100% of the time? No!

Do I think she's been a great senator for NYC? Looks like the people of NY think so!

Do I think the knee jerk Hillary bashing is tired and just the same old bullshit over and over from people that read the word "Hillary" and their pants fill up with ca-ca? Oh you betacha!

[StellaBlue]

35. agree, but think she's too power hungry to drop out if she thinks she has

a chance in hell

[On the Road]

37. I Can't Imagine She'll Drop Out

I do think she won't last beyond the first three primaries. It will be Joementum redux. Just a hunch.

[katty]

43. Hillary will never be president, she may get a cabinet offer

from the new Dem president or Attorney General

[Warren DeMontague]

49. Maybe she'll watch "An Inconvenient Truth" and find her conscience

conscience enough to support the individual who clearly should be the next President of the United States.

[AtomicKitten]

51. I predict she'll go toe-to-toe with Gore

and get her ass handed to her in the primary.

A clash of the Titans.

[gauguin57]

57. Hillary: Drop out in exchange for promise of supreme ct. justice-ship

from the winning Democrat.

You'd be a great Supreme Court justice ... so, put all your (and Bill's) support behind a Dem. nominee with a good chance to win (which you haven't got), in exchange for the top court robe during the winning Dem's term.

Perfect plan.

[ShaneGR]

65. She's a lock for 2008 in Iowa and NH.....

Keep in mind, Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton.

[undercutter2006]

69. my prediction

the vice president nominee will be either black or a woman, otherwise democratic party will lose a lot of its credibility.