I disagree with Mark Crispin Miller on one thing....

[garybeck]

PREFACE: MCM is a true patriot and a real hero. His most recent book (Fooled Again) is a God-send. He has invigorated the election rights movement in a badly needed way.

OK... I've been listening to many of his interviews and recently he seems to emphasize that the jerks who are pulling off the stolen elections are radical religious zealots who think that everyone else is evil.

I agree, that there is an element in the Republican Party who is radical, evangelical, etc... and everything he says about them is true.

But I disagree that this is the ultimate driving force, that these are the folks "pulling the strings" in the party and that those who are stealing the elections are doing it for religious reasons.

I believe, very strongly, that MONEY, GREED, and big business is the ultimate element pulling the strings.

I don't believe for a second that Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc... are deeply religious. I don't think they give a rat's ass about gay marriage.

I think that these people use religion to their political advantage, but personally they don't give a crap about it.

Yes, I know there are religious fanatics and evangelicals and anti-gay idiots in the party, and some of them are in high positions. But they are not the ones stealing elections, starting wars, making energy policy, cutting taxes for the rich, and all that stuff.

All the major doings of this administration relate to money. The war is about money, not religion.

Our real enemies are the corporate greedy bastards who will lie, kill, cheat, do anything to maintain power.

I believe Miller's view is that it's the other way around - the religious zealots are in charge, and they are teaming up with the corporate greedy bastards because it enables them to make policy. He says the religious zealots are behind the stolen elections. I disagree. It's the greedy corporate warmonger bastards who have already profited billions from their war, and they'll steal another election to keep it going.

[Atman]

1. Can't argue with any point you make

I think you're spot-on.

[BeFree]

2. I know how you feel, Gary

But Mark does have a point. Part of the whole impetus is a culture war. They hate our freedoms. The fundies live to control others and they have a lot of power. And money.

Have you ever known any fundies? I have, and thinking back, I can see the relationship they have with what Mark says. Fundies are unthinking people. Their whole lives are centered on words written thousands of years ago and they never stop to think that those words are outdated. They really are not Christians.

When I first heard Mark say what he says, it struck me as rather odd, but pondering his words now for some time, I can see why he has that theory.

[garybeck]

5. I agree that the fundies are involved, but what I'm saying is

the ones starting wars and stealing elections are the money people. the fundies are there, they have an influence, they are used and they use. But Bush, Rove, and Cheney are not religious and they represent corporate greed, not religious fundamentalism. And they are the ones who started the war, and they are the ones who started this Diebold mess.

[snot]

3. Agreed -- nt

[AndyTiedye]

4. Worse Than That. It Is an Unholy Alliance

The Cheap Labor Rethugs hire crooked preachers like Ralph Reed to keep the workers in line.
A theocracy is the perfect form of government for them, because there is no possibility
of a popular uprising.

It is argued that the have-mores would not want to live under a theocracy, and that is true.
Have-mores do not live under a theocracy, they live above it, like the sheikhs of Saudi Arabia.