People have shot down the idea of using gassification to produce

[HysteryDiagnosis]

energy from coal... well, I am not sure about the Co2 issue with that approach, but this info refers to the potential for producing energy at point of use from natural gas, the Co2 is reclaimable, the energy efficiently produced.

http://www.naturalgas.org/environment/technology.asp

# Clean Electricity - Fuel cells provide the cleanest method of producing electricity from fossil fuels. While a pure hydrogen, pure oxygen fuel cell produces only water, electricity, and heat, fuel cells in practice emit only trace amounts of sulfur compounds, and very low levels of carbon dioxide. However, the carbon dioxide produced by fuel cell use is concentrated and can be readily recaptured, as opposed to being emitted into the atmosphere.

# Distributed Generation - Fuel cells can come in extremely compact sizes, allowing for their placement wherever electricity is needed. This includes residential, commercial, industrial, and even transportation settings.

# Dependability - Fuel cells are completely enclosed units, with no moving parts or complicated machinery. This translates into a dependable source of electricity, capable of operating for thousands of hours. In addition, they are very quiet and safe sources of electricity. Fuel cells also do not have electricity surges, meaning they can be used where a constant, dependably source of electricity is needed.

# Efficiency - Fuel cells convert the energy stored within fossil fuels into electricity much more efficiently than traditional generation of electricity using combustion. This means that less fuel is required to produce the same amount of electricity. The National Energy Technology Laboratory estimates that, used in combination with natural gas turbines, fuel cell generation facilities can be produced that will operate in the 1 to 20 Megawatt range at 70 percent efficiency, which is much higher than the efficiencies that can be reached by traditional generation methods within that output range.

[Radical Activist]

1. Gasification is certainly better than coal-fire plants.

They still have more emissions than renewables like wind power.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. I'm wanting to know if the gas can be run through fuel cells.... that

would be the proper thing to do... I think.

[MadHound]

3. That's nice, neat and nifty

But we already have off the shelf technologies that will fulfill all of our electrical needs, solar and especially wind. They are clean, renewable, and are ready to start taking over from fossil fuel fired, and nuclear, right now, with relatively minor changes to our infrastructure. It is time to start using them.

As far as transporation goes, I would rather go with biodiesel, in that it is cleaner, cheaper, and again, renewable. Also the infrastructure change would be a great deal less than using gassification or fuel cells. Essentially all we have to do is build the biodiesel refineries and implement a policy that all new vehicles are built with diesel engines.

And one of the real advantages of these renewable is that we can fulfill all of our energy needs domestically, thus eliminating the need to go to war for energy and providing a huge economic boost to our economy. These are off the shelf solutions that are ready to fulfill our entire energy needs. It is time we started implementing them.

[gristy]

5. What you are really saying is you want to grow our oil on our farmland?

How much land is that going to take up?

[MadHound]

7. No, in fact not one acre of farmland need be used

Because the biodiesel production that I'm talking about is derived from algae. Using algae as the base, we would apparently need only 15,000 square miles of water in order to fulfill these needs<http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html>

And most of the surface area could come from planting algae at wastewater treatment plants, where the algae would also help in the treatment of sewage. Not one acre of land needed.

I would say it is time we made the switch.

[gristy]

4. Follow the money. Somebody wants to sell fuel cells.

Just one piece of BS:

"the carbon dioxide produced by fuel cell use is concentrated and can be readily recaptured"

Sequestration of CO2 is easy/difficult (take your pick) regardless of how it is generated.


Oh, and another:

"a pure hydrogen, pure oxygen fuel cell produces only water, electricity, and heat, fuel cells in practice emit only trace amounts of sulfur compounds, and very low levels of carbon dioxide"

Just gotta open some hydrogen mines! :eyes:

[greenman3610]

6. Honda introduces integrated fuel cell home/auto system

a good fuel cell concept- already in production, is this wholistic
system from Honda:
----------------

Honda has officially introduced its third generation of a home combined heating, power and hydrogen system, the Home Energy Station III, in the US in conjunction with its partner Plug Power.
---
Honda had previewed the HES III system at the Tokyo Motor show in October, along with the introduction of its new FCX fuel cell prototype.
Like its predecessors, HES III uses natural gas as its feedstock, and is designed to work in a home-based refueling environment. It is able to supply a sufficient amount of hydrogen to power a fuel cell vehicle for daily operation while providing 5 kW of electricity for a household.

---
The Home Energy Station III is also able to function as a backup power generation system during power outages by using the hydrogen in the storage tank to power the internal fuel cell, providing as much as 5 kilowatts of electrical power to the home in normal and emergency conditions.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/11/honda_introduce.html

[madokie]

8. with a new administration and the new technologies we will someday

be energy independent without any real sacrifices, IMO.