Hey Old Time DU'ers. Need Ya To Weigh In On This For Me.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

I think this is the best site on the web hands down. Even with the bad apples spewing their crap every so often. But as a whole, this community is amazing. But it is starting to become far more vehement and self serving lately with all sorts of judgmental anger being thrown around, and we have not even begun the primary process yet.

SO what I need from the oldtimers is assurance. Assurance that during primary times in the 06 elections, and even moreso for 08, that this place doesn't devolve into a place filled with he said she said he sucks they suck mine rules yours sucks type mentalities. I'm Terrified at how DU would be with that caddy crap goin on.

I've never been through a primary here, but with the posts I've see of late it seems that come primary time there could be a split environment here that could tears things apart and get out of hand.

So to those oldtime DU'ers, please assure me that level heads still prevail even during those competitive times.. Or can you not offer me those assurances, knowing that does turn into an all man for yourself type couple of rough months? I have no idea what this place is like during the primaries. Just lookin for some Old Time DU'er to inform on what to expect :)

[FlemingsGhost]

1. Sorry, can't give you that assurance.

DU is what it is: an online water cooler surrounded by some very large personalities.

Quite often, it gets ugly.

[jonnyblitz]

2. it gets down right nasty as hell during the primaries.

sorry to break the news to you..

[Elwood P Dowd]

3. It's always been like this

I lurked here for two years and finally joined in 2003. I you want a bunch of brainwashed Bushler youth in total agreement, go to the freeper board.

Your guy/gal sucks!

;-)

[mike_c]

4. asbestos futures will be VERY VALUABLE during the primaries.....

I can assure you of THAT! My guess is that '06 will be FAR WORSE than '02 was ('02 wasn't bad, actually, except for the aftermath). It will likely get pretty tense. But '08 will be nuke-u-lar, despite the mods' efforts, the admin's rules, and everyone else's best intentions.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. That's What I'm Aftraid of and am sensing it already. That in the 08

season clicques will form and treat the others as bad as we treat freepers now. That it will turn into all out mayhem just because some people will be so opinionated that the only thing they know will be to attack and smear rather than reason.

I just hope there are enough other threads still active during those times that provide the absolutely intellectual, well thought, well found peices together for us that we all cherish so much here. The ones that help keep our focus, and most importantly keep us informed. But again, I haven't been here through it and have no idea what to expect. I just hope people can learn from now till then how to keep their heads level.

[leeroysphitz]

22. Not to be insulting or confrontational but...

this is a POLITICAL forum. If some support Gore but dislike Hillary or a few believe in Lieberman but wont condone Kucinich then there will be debates. What are you expecting and why on EARTH would you expect it here? This the DEMOCRATIC party. If you want lockstep then by all means go sign up at www.freerepublic.com or www.iamabigclosemindedscumbag.com

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. Not to be insulting or controntational, but...

You obviously had not an iota of an idea what the point was and instead defaulted to unwarranted ranting. If you try and go back and this time understand the context you would be able to see that it doesn't imply anywhere that the concept of debating is what the issue is or that there was intent to imply that we walk in lockstep, since lockstepping is an ideal that sickens me (and all true intellectuals) and that you'd be hard pressed to find any post of mine that shows otherwise.

Debating is part of what makes DU the best site on the web. The question, however, is if during the primary season the debates turn from productive to completely irrational, bitter, attacking, uncivil and without regard to other peoples right to opinions. I had seen several instances where the primary season of old was referenced in a way that made it sound like this place turned into hell for those who admitted who they were rooting for. From the replies in this thread, that seems to have been the case, therefore making the questions in this thread legitimate.

Thanks.

:hi:

[hang a left]

29. DU will set up seperate 2006 Election and then 2008 Primary/Election

boards. You can go there if you are up to it. There will still be the GD and LBN and the other forums. I will support the Democratic nominee, but I am in California and by the time the primary gets here it is pretty much a done deal.

[M155Y_A1CH]

36. Plenty of threads to pick and choose

Don't worry about that. The board will be on level two or three
most of the time when it starts.
GD really gets bombed, so if you want to avoid it, I would suggest the Greatest page.

The Greatest page comes pre-censored by the DU masses.
In any event the GD forum will be the most heavily hit by the dreaded flame wars.

[thinkingwoman]

5. primaries are searing

do you frequent the lounge? If so, you've probably bumped into posters who NEVER enter the GD forum. There's a reason for that, and it probably has to do with what happens to that forum in particular during the primaries. :evilgrin:

Put on your flame retardant suit and dive right in. The water's hot, but then, so is the water in a spa and you go there willingly don't you?

[Selteri]

6. I've noticed the unlyness getting stronger all ove the place over

the past few weeks. It seems to be a result of other things going on right now. I hope and pray that it is a temporary condition and that sanity will return.

Some boards I am on have gotten so bad that I've chosen to take a haiatus from them while things calm down.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. See, That's My Fear. That They'll Be Tearing Each Other Apart,

right at the time we need cohesiveness the most.

[PurityOfEssence]

8. 'fraid it do get a tad testy...

The mods and Skinner occasionally impose stricter rules of comportment that keep it in check, but frustration does take its toll. There are certain inherent enmities between various camps and this gets amplified by the irritation we all have with society at large, but there are plenty of clear heads around who help keep things pleasant.

What's important at times like those is keeping one's head and ignoring lots of the shrapnel. For the most part, this site is filled with great people and it moves in the right direction, but periodic flare-ups will happen.

[Pastiche423]

13. Flare-ups?

Tell me that's not so.

[omega minimo]

16. It's always teste

[chimpymustgo]

24. Hi Purity!! We remember well, huh?

Maybe we'll handle things better between now and 08.

[Old and In the Way]

9. DU is an addiction.

Really, it is my home page. Why? because I can easily scan LBN to see if Bush has been impeached yet. I think of us as a not-for-profit news collection system with 20,000 active producers. We get 1st rate opinion and analysis, too. I read a few blogs, too.....but there is no posting community quite like DU. I suspect we'll continue to see steady growth here, it's getting noticed.

[sandnsea]

10. Put on your seatbelt

This is peaceful. But never fear, even me and MadFloridian have managed to see eye to eye on an issue or two. :P

I thought things were calming down a bit, to tell the truth.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. Hi sandnsea. Not really talking about right now. I'm talking more when

the primaries role around, especially in 08. When everybody has their own candidate and feels to destroy every one elses. That environment is what I fear and don't yet know.

[jonnyblitz]

17. that's exactly what happens , what you said...

"When everybody has their own candidate and feels the need to destroy every one elses."

all the candidates in the last election had blogs and when a contentious thread or a poll would pop up people would go to the blogs of their candidate for re-enforcements and get new people to sign up here so they could to jump in on the action and vote in the polls. people would post links to the blogs to prove/show that DUers were going to the blogs and encouraging people to sign up for DU to do this..

it was insane.

[chimpymustgo]

25. We went from the primary wars to the VEEP wars. Lordy.

We've GOT to have more unity this time around - or at least, less viciousness.

[sandnsea]

26. But it passes

for the most part, that's my point. I also suspect since many have already been through it, it might not be taken so seriously next time around. And hard fought primaries isn't new, it's always been the way.

[baby_bear]

14. one never knows, do one?

This site has changed immensely since I came on in 2001, and sometimes I have gotten irritated or fed up or whatever, but over all it seems to right itself (in the sense of a sailboat and its keel).

Not that you asked, but my personal impression is not so much that there is acrimony, but that there are so many posts that when one provides a thoughtful response, it may never be read by anyone.
I get frustrated with that and so I post much less frequently than I did three years ago.

It's still a great place though.

b_b

[incapsulated]

15. The horror.... The horror....

I had PPSS (Post Primary Stress Syndrome) after the last round.

This time will be even worse.

It's kinda hard to describe.....

It's like gang warfare. With no rules. Except cursing, strangely enough (at the person angering you). If you get at all attached to a candidate, prepare to get battered and bruised as he/she is ripped to shreds every five minutes.

:hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. That's The Part I Don't Get. I for the most part love ALL the candidates

Sure, there will be one that does somethin more to me that makes me want to root more for him or her, but I couldn't imagine it ever getting to such a verbally absuive passionate way that I had heard about the last round. Just never made sense to me. They are all our dems and for the most part pretty good ones. I have no problem liking every single one of em while hoping one more than the other can win. I guess to each his own though! :hi:

[incapsulated]

21. Well, that's a good attitude. But it may change.

If you decide to support one candidate over the others, as you probably will, be prepared to have the supporters of the other candidates rip your choice as the second coming of Stalin, a stealth republican, a born loser, a lying scumbag and anything else you can imagine. Eventually, even if you felt nothing for their guy/gal, you can start to hate them because of the vicious attacks from their supporters.

Frankly, I'm sitting this round out because I don't think it makes a damn's worth of difference who "wins" on DU. If it did, Dean or Clark would've been the nominee. I don't need the stress.

[Journeyman]

18. I'm reminded of an episode of M*A*S*H. . .

when the 4077th was threatened with being overrun by Chinese troops and Margaret -- bordering on panic -- asked Col. Blake what assurance she had "about the possible rape and violation of our bodies, the repeated and possibly numerous violations of our bodies?

"Colonel," she almost shrieked, "what assurances can you give me about the possibility of these numerous violations?"

"What assurances do you want?" came the reply.



Nothing personal, OMC, but you're on your own in here. Good luck. For your sake, I hope your candidate wins.

[mike_c]

20. MUST remember that one, MUST remember that one, MUST remember....

:rofl:

[Swamp Rat]

23. There are other DU forums.

:)

During primaries past, when I got sick of seeing all my DU friends attacking each other I went to other DU forums besides the main ones. Now we have a whole lotta neat forums/groups here that appeal to other interests. I suppose WHEN it gets ugly during the 2006 primaries, I will hang out in the graphics or photography group or whatever suits my current interest.

[jobycom]

27. Eh, it's not so bad.

People will fight, Skinner will turn blue in the virtual face trying to break it up, longtime beloved DUers will self-destruct and get tombstoned, other longtime DUers, usually the vehement enemies of the ones tombstoned, will post angry threads complaining about the tombstoning, Freepers will try their silly little infiltrations, some Freeps will wind up with the 1000+ tag and will try to tear us apart from the inside, strict rules of civility will be put in place and enforced, more longtimers will be tombstoned, some will be forgiven and brought back, and every evening you will leave here hating the place, believing that the real problem with the Democratic Party is the angry, bitter division that one sees incarnated in DU and that the best thing for you and the party and the country will be for you to never waste another moment of your time on DU.

Of course, the next night you will sign back on, just to take a peak, not to post, and by two AM you will have posted 90 times and will be swearing that tomorrow night you will not return to this infested hellhole.

So, you know, it's all pretty cool

The thing is, ultimately, even when the arguments get insanely hot, everyone still has their eye on the main prize, and that's what will keep you coming back. And on election night, all of us will be here to cry or cheer like brothers and sisters, and you will find yourself fondly smiling at the posts of the DUer who two nights ago you called a sellout whore and tried to have tombstoned. Just one big happy family.

[tavalon]

31. Wow,

that was a perfect characterization of what happens! Beautiful!

[jobycom]

62. Gee thanks! nt

[rucky]

28. HAHAHAHA! Buckle your seat belts...

We brawl like Irishmen in a Boston barroom. Not too many grudges, afterwards, though.

Campaign 2004: Imagine DU were a high school...

First you have the Deaniacs, they were like the rich kids in school. Popular and coiffed - you either wanted to be one or you hated them with a passion (or both).

The Clarkies were the jocks - high-profile, tight group, but fairly exclusive.

The Kerryites (primary time) - the honor students. Few in numbers at the time, they'd spout off, like, facts and stuff, and nobody really paid attention.

The Edwards bunch were those non-clique floater kids that everybody was ok with but kinda blended into the woodwork.

Then at the bottom of the food chain, you'd have your Kucitizens (that was me). The pimple-faced 90-pound weaklings that - if somebody were feeling particularly insecure they'd go beat on the geeks and they'd feel better for awhile.

Sharpton & Mosley-Braun fans were the only black kids in school. Everybody said they were ok, but nobody would claim them as their own.

Then the honor students swept the student council & the popular kids either got on the bus or jockeyed to regain their status.

[tavalon]

30. Normal cyclic crap

And it is especially bad when the midterms, primaries or selection of new Popes come around.

This is an amazing place with some amazingly hotheaded fiery types who sometimes get out of control. Even Will Pitt, our rock star, has been known to go off the deep end a time or two or three.

Level heads do not prevail during those times but the mods and our esteemed DU founders almost always do and most people come back to their senses. Grab some popcorm and settle in. If it gets too weird, hang out in the lounge unless they go crazy too, in which case, you should just go over to Buzzflash or Truthout, read the articles and maybe actually step outside to get a little air. Basically, come back in a few days and see if the dust has settled.

Oh, and take the advice given out by Skinner not too very long ago - The ignore button is your friend, use it early and use it often (okay, that was a paraphrase and perhaps a bit of hyperbole on my part. I think he only said the first part).

[Solly Mack]

32. they're called the Primary "WARS" for a reason

It gets UGLY. Beyond UGLY really. Folks get downright nasty and hateful. You ain't seen nothing yet.

I avoid any and all "love me love my candidate or you're a right wing piece of scum" threads at all costs during the Primaries. People who normally get along well with each other start ripping each other's throats out over their favorite candidate. You'd think someone done said something mean about someone's mama the way they go after each other.

Seriously, if you don't like someone's messiah(candidate), they take it personally. Like you've attacked them instead of simply disagreeing with the candidate. (Not everyone behaves this way - but too many do)

Folks can lie and deny that it gets psycho around here during the Primaries but I've been here since early 2001 - and I know for a fact it does.

Just keep your cool and avoid those threads.

On the upside, not everyone engages in the cut throat antics of love me love my dog during that time - those are the DU'ers you should seek out while the Primaries are going on. There's safety in numbers. :)

[M155Y_A1CH]

33. Not just primaries

This place goes ballistic any time anything big is happening.
I always regard these as the FUN times though,
I get to dust off the ole' ignore button
and shoot 'em down.
Click, you're a goner! LOL

What, no star to go with that opinion? Click

You think what? Click

Dust off those rusty hunting skills and get ready for the chase.
It'll be more fun than you think.

[Straight Shooter]

34. Just think of it as a friendly barroom brawl on a sawdust floor.

Feelings get hurt, people get agitated, fists get bloody, anger flares like fireworks and sets the whole place on fire.

When all is said and done, most of us wave at one another and say, "Come, let us sit down together and toast each other with a good beer." ;)

[AllieB]

35. I'm fairly new to DU, but read DU during primary season

I tend to shy away from controversy as a general rule. It was contentious during the primaries, but what do you expect from a Democratic message board? We are a 'big tent', unlike the lockstep neo-cons. You're going to find differences of opinion hotly debated, which is the essence of democracy. If you're looking for conformity of opinion, maybe check out a right-wing forum, because you're not going to find it here, thankfully! :-)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. Yeah.... Conformity. That's What I'm Looking For.

:eyes:

[AllieB]

49. My post wasn't intended as an insult

:shrug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

50. I understand that, and mine wasn't really either, but

the statement about conformity and especially about 'check out a rightwing site' (which believe me, if someone said to you even innocently, would make you not feel good) made me roll my eyes, which is why I put that in my reply. Please know the point of the thread was not one of conformity, as that would make DU a boring place to be. There is a big difference between debate, and all out no respect for others at all brawling. The concern was for the latter.

It's all good, AllieB. :)

[salin]

37. Congressional primaries won't be so bad

but the presidential primary wars in 04 were awful. Folks took things very personally, formed 'camps' were in constant attack mode and felt very righteous in their attacks on one another. Folks like me who tried to calm folks down so that the rifts were not so deep and personal that it would be easier to come together when the nomination was settled - even got attacked - because folks in ALL of the camps were so set in their righteousness in attacking other camps.

See one poster makes a crack about x candidate. ALL of x candidates die hards are insulted and feel righteous to attack all of the supporters of who ever the first poster supports. Then all of those supporters attack back. And so on and so on. From what I witnessed ALL camps were nasty to one another and got VERY vicious.

Frankly, leveled heads during that time, were moving targets.

Thankfully the Admin created a special forum and the awfulness pretty much stayed in that forum.

[MuseRider]

38. Primary time is the best time

to use your ignore button and your hide a thread button. There will be the occasion when you will feel like overstepping the rules because someone will really get to you. That is when they are just a really great thing to have. In a couple of days after you cool down and can be more rational about things you undo them and go read what you missed. That way you can still learn from what or who once made you too angry. I learned that the hard way. I also learned how to take deep breaths, compose my responses elsewhere and save them. If in an hour or so they seemed inappropriate they were trashed. There are lots of ways for the hot blooded to not become what makes them so angry.

If you are cool already then you are halfway there. It does get nasty but all in all many of the people I had the worst "fights" with ended up being the people I respected the most in all other ways than their *horrible candidate choice:rofl:*.

It is politics after all.

[scarletlib]

39. I love DU.

I have been hear for a while even though my post numbers are low. I enjoy reading what everyone has to say. At least people try to be real, honest here. There is argument and dissension but also real discussion on issues with varying points of view.

I see people apologize, forgive and forget and often change their minds after vigorous debate on issues.

[Redneck Socialist]

40. LOL!

Whoo, ha, heh...God damn you're in for some disappointment.

'06 probably won't be so bad as there is no national candidate, but '08, well, I hope you're stocking up on flame proof undies.

[BiggJawn]

41. Sure, I'll give you some "assurance"...

It's a LIE, though.

Were you here for all the acrimonious turd-flinging that went on amongst us mainstreamers and the splinter groups and the naive people who thought that fool Nader was Gawd Made Flesh last time?

The "Alert" button will become your friend.

[Paladin]

42. You'll Want To Avoid The Guns Forum, For Sure

When the campaigns are on, the DU Gun Dungeon usually gets particularly ugly, with NRA-friendly gun activists trashing Democrats a lot more than Republicans. All while they flash their supposed Democratic bona fides and claim their non-stop criticism is for the good of the party, of course.....

[ewagner]

43. No assurances

Passions will run high again. That can't be prevented, nor, in my opinion, should it be.

If you want to avoid the nastiness, then don't participate in it; don't add fuel to the fire by adding your criticism to the pile. Ignore it. Add only the comments you feel will move the debate forward without personal rancor. Also, there is also the ignore button.

[JanMichael]

44. It's a message board. No need to fret.

Yes he activity zoomed during the primaries as expected but the beauty of a message board is that you can turn off the computer, put people on ignore, hide threads, and get drunk if all else fails.

It'll be fine, don't worry so much.

[Dunvegan]

47. Hmmm...wonder if I have any particular 2008 candidate in mind...

...which doesn't matter because, when after the tsunami and earthquake and it all dries out and shakes out (in both 06 and 08)...

I'm Voting Straight Democratic Party!

[Beetwasher]

48. Monkeys Throw Shit at Eachother

It's what we do.

[JitterbugPerfume]

51. it gets "interesting"

and we survive

"oldtimer" since 01

[bridgit]

52. prepare to have your sig line shut down on a routine basis...

resist the urge to contribute to the "he said she said he sucks syndrome" and that will be one less voice for chaos when 06 & 08 are to be some of the most critical voting the nation may see for a long time thereafter if it doesn't go well, but then again...

i'm no "ole timer", nice old timer ass kissing though, that has to be a plus somewhere :thumbsup:

[Buns_of_Fire]

53. It won't be so bad...

so long as everyone realizes that MY candidate is the only TRUE and RATIONAL choice and THEIR candidate is just WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! and, besides, their mothers dress them funny. Then we'll all go over to the Lounge and argue over whether someone's kitty is Less Filling, or Tastes Great. ;-)

And somehow, everyone survives it. I doubt it'll be boring.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

54. LOL I enjoyed that reply thoroughly.

"Then we'll all go over to the Lounge and argue over whether someone's kitty is Less Filling, or Tastes Great. " :rofl:

[Buns_of_Fire]

56. Thank you. I like to maintain a certain detachment from reality.

It helps. Asbestos undies sometimes help, too. :-)

(Or, to put it in the immortal words of MAD Magazine: "What foods these morsels be!")

[carolinalady]

55. I have been seeing this as well. It would be interesting to see the

demographics of the regular posters here. I have gotten the sense that there are a lot of young ones here. Some of their responses show a limited amount of life wisdom. I am glad they are here because their energy is fantastic, but I also feel they are overwhelmed with the enormity of political entanglement we are witnessing right now. The issues are real. Their frustration is real, but the response is often dramatic and over the top. They see things in black and white and have little tolerance for gray. I don't know about you, but as I have aged, I see more and more gray and I am not just talking about my husband's hair color! LOL.
ed:sp

[JCMach1]

57. Same as it ever was...

:)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

58. Thank You For Putting The Talking Heads In My Head.

Seriously. Great Song LOL

[in_cog_ni_to]

59. Whew....that's an awful lot to ask.

I'm STILL bleeding from the last primary. You missed the attempted slaughter of Wes Clark by a few anti-Wes Clark posters...one of whom has been BANNED. It was an ugly thing that happened. The things they posted, the pure hatred aimed at him because he was a military man. There's still one poster here who pops up in EVERY Wes Clark thread to attack him. Nope, can't promise you things won't get ugly. The Howard Dean/Wes Clark supporters......OMG. It wasn't pretty, but it was something we all did because of our passion for who we wanted to be president. I don't see it being ANY different during the '04 primaries. It mat be even WORSER ;) with the DLCers thrown in the mix.

My prediction? Expect blood.

[donsu]

60. I'm wondering why you would even want that. it's the repugs that live

in lock step and clone speak.

how can you decide anything if everything is not discussed from every angle?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

61. I'm Sorry, Is Someone Declaring We Walk In Lockstep? I Must've Missed It.

:shrug:

[quinnox]

63. All Hell breaks loose!!

During primary time. OH MY - it is something else!!

[leftofthedial]

64. there will be a faction arguing rabidly for each candidate

that's why GD-P was created in teh first place, to get the internecine alley fights out of the general population.

It will be nasty and petty and vehement. But that means there will be sincere, enthusiastic discourse. And many of the candidates will be paying attention.

[bo44]

65. Political Judo right?

Some moran who claimed to be in tight with John Kerry told us to chill out and sit back because as a herd of rubes we were not familiar with the political judo of a national campaign. John Kerry and his band of soothsayers practiced Aikido in 2004 while we hollered for blood and guts. Guess what? The morans should have followed our lead and fought.

Point is in relationship to your post here is that we represent the fighting spirit of the party. To forewarn or beg us not to fight for ours politically is to ask us to behave like a Pink Tutu DC Dem. It is not going to happen and should not be seen as a sign of weakness as it occurs.