It Appears The 2 Missing Soldiers Were Captured

[leftchick]

<snip>

According to local Iraqis in the area, who were interviewed by telephone from Baghdad, the two American soldiers who survived the gun battle were led away by the insurgents to a pair of waiting cars.

Hassan Abdul Hadi was tending to his date and apple trees near the village of Qaraghul when he heard gunfire and explosions. When he walked to the road, he saw an American Humvee.

"I was shocked to see the Humvee — nothing seemed to be wrong with it," Mr. Hadi said. "Then I heard the men shouting 'God is great!' and I saw that they had taken the Americans with them. The gunmen took them and drove away."

At the time of the attack, the American soldiers were at a traffic control checkpoint outside of Yusufiya, a troubled town south of Baghdad that is considered a stronghold of the terrorist group Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia. According to the Iraqis, the checkpoint was guarded by about a dozen American soldiers who had come in three Humvees.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/18/world/middleeast/18iraq.html?hp&ex=1150603200&en=0492db48e6279b65&ei=5094&partner=homepage

this is so fucked up. :(

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

1. U.S. Army is in their country, occupying.. this sort of thing would be

expected, it's a bit surprising there haven't been more like this up until now.

[bigdarryl]

7. Captured soldiers

Isn't it strange that the media isn't really talking about this, they seem to want to ignore this latest fuckup in Iraq and continue to kiss Bush's ass

[NNN0LHI]

37. It has happened before. The media just doesn't talk about it

Now if Matt had been a missing blond woman or an alligator bit puppy we would have had wall to wall coverage.

Don

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050421/NEWS0104/504210446/1008/NEWS01

Soldier still listed as missing in Iraq

The only U.S. soldier not accounted for in Iraq will continue to be considered alive and missing following a decision by Army officials who reviewed his case more than a year after he disappeared.

Matt Maupin, a 21-year-old Army reservist who was promoted to sergeant in absentia this month, was captured during an April 9, 2004, attack on his convoy just weeks after his arrival in Iraq.

In a video broadcast later that month on an Arab news station, Maupin was seen being held by masked gunmen.

[ccpup]

2. Yes, it's horribly fucked up

and, surprisingly, what they'll worry about more than anything in the WH is the quick evaporation of Bush's (alleged) Bump when the news of this gets out to more and more people. Now THAT'S fucked up!

[leftchick]

5. I thought the exact same thing

bushco** looks at Iraq in a purely political view. Aside from the profits.

[countingbluecars]

3. My fear is that they will be used

to make a name for the new Zarqawi.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

10. If we occupy a foreign land, any rebel leader who is killed will be

replaced, since the people want us gone.

[Biernuts]

49. Many of the rebels are foreign too And Sunni "rebels" will not

capture the hearts & minds of the Shia when they kill more Shia than Americans

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

51. Hmmm what percentage of "insurgents" are non-Iraqis, do you think?

[Poll_Blind]

13. Ouch. I think you hit on something there. Didn't al-Zarqawi slit...

...the throats a few people on video just to prove he meant business? This would be an excellent opportunity for the bastard who replaced al-Zarqawi to execute a similar show of force and gain notoriety.

PB

[MADem]

18. That's probably gonna be the sad case

There will be some hideous video released, and I won't watch it. The MSM will show bits of it, right up until the fatal moment, on a continuous, horrific loop, and there will be foaming at the mouth from the right demanding revenge, and calls from the left to get the fuck out of there, and on and on and on....

[Warren Stupidity]

26. as we saw fit to turn his death into a circus event

why would they not do exactly the same?

[Kingshakabobo]

4. I've got a bad feeling about this. This sucks. n/t

[oasis]

6. A giant command screwup having only 3 on a lonely checkpoint.

[leftchick]

11. I can not help but think

this will happen more often as our soldiers are worked to exhaustion. :(

[oasis]

24. It's like Gen. Shenseki said before he got the boot from Rummy/Wolfowitz.

You need an adequate force for occupation.

[MADem]

20. More likely a SHORTAGE of available assets

That's Monkey's "War on the Cheap" for ya! It's only going to get worse....

[oasis]

23. Rummy will be forced to resign when the facts surrounding this story

are known to the public.

[MADem]

27. Would it only be thus....

Hell, they haven't found poor Matt Maupin either, and I'm betting that kid was the shadowy figure the crazyass bums beheaded in the desert at night, and then put the grainy video on the web.

Cheney, when he was SECDEF under the Monkey-Daddy, ABANDONED Scott Speicher at the end of GW1 because he didn't want the prospect of a missing pilot to ruin the victory parades. There are still no good answers about what happened to that young man.

They don't give a shit about what anyone thinks. They don't give a shit about the servicemembers in harm's way. They're immune to calls for accountability. The bastards.

[oasis]

34. Minimum troops on duty in the "Triangle of Death". Explain that Rummy.

:mad:

[leftchick]

32. I wish

but I doubt it. The chimp cherishes loyalty to himself over incompetence and arrogance.

[Hugin]

8. I thought the bad man had been killed and...

The streets were now paved with gold.

They LIED!

:eyes:

[tanyev]

9. Remember the early days of the war when several American

soldiers were captured and RW politicians and commentators were so HORRIFIED that videotapes of them were made? Violation of Geneva Convention! Outrageous! Of course, that was long before the world knew about Abu Ghraib. I have a very bad feeling about this.

[papau]

12. And then after they cut off the soldiers' heads, they get a pardon?

The US Media/Rove have no doubt put this factoid on the "ignore these facts memo" sent out for the Sunday talk shows.

[wolfgirl]

14. I agree that it is

kinda odd that the M$M have been quiet on this. If they've been captured, it will be very bad. :cry:

But B*** and company will try to use it to show "we must stay the course" in Iraq. :puke:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

16. Well the story IS in the New York Times. Unless you mean TV?

[wolfgirl]

22. The M$M never

give us the real story...that's what I mean. It is so discouraging when I listen to the TV or radio, when I know there is so much they aren't telling the public.

[kenny blankenship]

15. I know it's easy to say this from behind a PC stateside, but

You always save one round.
(I don't think I'd want to let myself be captured after what we've been doing to people over there.)

[rodeodance]

19. I would be gutless. I would carry around a suicide pill.

[rodeodance]

17. a former Lt. turned msnbc commentator is cautioning==we do not know at

this point if they were captured.

[leftchick]

21. yes, we know we can not believe anything the Iraqis say

they also complained for months about torture by americans before Abu Ghraib. Fuck the former Lt.!

[Warren Stupidity]

25. Roosting chickens.

The Real Military (1789-2001) warned about the consequences of abandoning the geneva conventions. Now these unfortunate soldiers may pay the price for gitmo, for abu ghraib, for camp bucca, for the sacking of fallujah, for the other unreported detention centers where we have carried out the really ugly side of an unwelcome occupation.

If their death portraits are blasted across al jazeerah in nice gold framed large format digital photos, what exactly will be the basis of our moral outrage? When will we start to once again realize that the rules of conduct are universal: how we expect others to behave is how we should behave.

Victory in Iraq, right, by all means let congress have many more stupid votes on how the sons and daughters of america ought to continue to be sent to kill and be killed by the sons and daughters of Iraq until some politician has the courage to stand up and say enough is enough.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

28. Yes, but those consequences are not borne by the sons of nobility.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. Indeed. The elites have other plans for their spawn. nt.

[Igel]

30. Post hoc and irrelevant.

You need to show the insurgency--or at least this group--would have followed the Geneva Conventions in the absence of American violations. A track record to that effect is lacking, so the only ground for conjecture is, "Gee, I don't know them, they must be good guys." That gives more benefit of the doubt than I personally think is warranted.

But in any event, the insurgents aren't bound by the Geneva Conventions, so the only condemnation possible is the kind of moral calculus that formed the original basis of the Geneva Conventions. Part is post-Englightenment rules of warfare and what's just and moral in war, as viewed by the upper echelons of the military force, civilian politicians, and academics/jurists, and is as much cultural as political. Part is symmetricality. But an insurgency is by definition asymmetrical. And this insurgency is, by definition, non-Western, and may well not share all the appropriate cultural and Enlightenment norms; in fact, if they're with the Islamist portion of the insurgency, Enlightenment norms are specifically excluded except as they happen to coincide with previously established thinking.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

31. Even if the rebels would NOT have adhered to Geneva conventions, that

is no reason for the U.S. not to have.

[Igel]

53. I concur completely, and if there's

any implication otherwise, it's because I've long since forgotten how to write clear expository prose.

Which incorrectly implies I knew at one time. x(

[Warren Stupidity]

33. I am not saying that one causes the other.

Indeed the captors may act civilly towards their prisoners, or not, and their behavior may or may not be affected by ours. However as we have abandoned the GC we have no claim to moral superiority here, and specifically were these unfortunate soldiers to be executed and pictures of their corpses displayed across the world, as we did with Zarqawi, with Saddam's sons, we would have nothing valid to object about.

My understanding is that we have gone out of our way to offend the population of Iraq, deliberately, as part of our psychological warfare pacification efforts. The use of dogs for house searches, the conveniently published photographs of prisoners in compromising sexual positions etc. Forget enlightment rules of warfare: what goes around comes around. It is very simple. The chickens will come home to roost.

[Igel]

54. In many ways, I suppose we have.

I'm just generally in far too snarky a mood lately.

(I re-read my post and realized that it's the kind of response usually reserved to tenured professors in my field trying to be 'encouraging' to new researchers, especially the students they're mentoring--in other words, condescending, insulting, and offensive. They're right ... you become what you hate.)

[brokensymmetry]

35. If the insurgents really want to strike a blow...

they should keep the two soldiers alive and very healthy.

In fact, feed them so well they gain weight.

Then produce videos to taunt the chimp.

Murder of helpless prisoners would harden American
resolve. A long running hostage crises would
make the public demand withdrawal.

[leftchick]

36. you have a good point

but revenge is big in the Arab world. And considering what the US has done to innocent Iraqis, I do not hold out much hope. :(

[Pithy Cherub]

39. The Iranian Hostage crisis offers a primer

on how to paralyze an American president. These guys have shown the ability to adapt - and we painfully know the bushies are the "stay the course" miscreants we all should fear.

My nightmare horror is the staged pictures like Americans made at Abu Gharib. I share your sense of hopelessness that this will come right soon.

[tnlefty]

40. Seems as though revenge is big in Bush**world, too.

I'm just sick of all of the death, maiming and destruction and the mean-spiritedness of so many. Makes the world ugly.

[spanone]

38. I hope they are treated as well as Bush* treats our prisoners...

:sarcasm:
I do hope they are treated well.

[lpbk2713]

41. I wonder about this .....

The last American soldier known to have been taken prisoner was Specialist Keith Maupin, who was captured by insurgents during an ambush of his convoy in April 2004 near Falluja, west of Baghdad. The Arabic news network Al Jazeera broadcast a videotape that purported to show Specialist Maupin being shot from behind. But the victim's face was not shown in the tape, and the American military has not confirmed his death.


If the American military refuses to admit he is dead does that mean his survivors haven't received any life insurance benefits? That's a pretty bum deal if so. Just because the Pentagon wants to play a PR numbers game and not admit another KIA.

[leftchick]

42. interesting thought

and probably true. :(

[2Design]

43. hope they don't treat them like we treat POW's - waterboarding

torture and some of the crazy GOP values -

[niallmac]

44. Bushco sends our men and women to fight for lies

and then bravely decides to ignore the Geneva conventions or any
conventions regarding the treatment of prisoners so now we have
absolutely no ground to stand on and demand our soldiers be treated
humanely.
I hope GW is jeered wherever he goes for the rest of his natural life.

[MrSlayer]

45. Those poor guys.

I really hope they have cyanide capsules on them like the Russian soldiers used to carry in case they were captured. Things are going to go really ugly for them I fear.

[speedoo]

46. I wish I could make a deal with the captors...

They return the soldiers, unharmed, and agree to a truce.

In return, I would pull all our troops as soon as safety allows.

Plus, I turn over to the insurgents the following: GWBush, Cheney, Rice, Libby, , Feith, Hadley, Rove, Gen. Tommy Franks, Gen. Myers, Gen. Pace, Gen. Sanchez, (plus all other commanders responsible for the prosecution of this illegal war) and Bremer. I would ask that the insurgents imprison these scumbags pending a trial at The Hague for war crimes, but this is merely a request, not a condition.

Did I forget anyone that should be included?

[lpbk2713]

47. Throw in a bonus ...... all the RW talking heads

Limbaugh, O'Lielly, Hannity, all that bunch. Don't throw in Coulter though. That would be a deal killer. After five minutes with her (?) they would be so pissed they wouldn't ever talk about a truce again.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

48. Kicked and Recommended. thanks for the RELIABLE info n/t

[Roland99]

50. But, but, but, there were an extra 60,000 Iraqi police/troops in Baghdad

All is secure!

[leftchick]

52. those Iraqi police numbers

are bogus! I have no doubt!