Al Franken's War - Tears of a Clown

[no_to_war_economy]

.. In fact there was apparently such a furor from many others that Franken opened up the phones, something he rarely does now, and he took all of three (3!) calls. The final one came from a retired military guy in Minnesota who made it clear he was for getting out of Iraq pronto and told Franken that he was disappointed in him. The caller also noted that he had two friends, both conservatives, a retired policeman and a firefighter, who did not vote in the last election but would have voted for Kerry had he been against the war. That was the final call. Franken went back to his guest list of minor celebrities and Democratic Party hacks.

.. it is time for antiwar groups in Minnesota to look for a candidate to run against Franken for Senate in 2008. It would be pathetic to reward his complicity in the war effort with a seat in the U.S. Senate.

http://www.counterpunch.org/walsh06192006.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[otokogi]

2. I have a lot of respect for Franken

but his allegiance to the status quo on the war, bbv & the 911 conspiracy makes me sick to my stomach.

he knows better

[TallahasseeGrannie]

7. Elaborate, please

on what you mean by his allegiance to the 911 conspiracy.

Does he believe there was a conspiracy?

[otokogi]

10. to clarify...

the official story we got on 911 is a very flimsy conspiracy theory that isn't backed up by facts or serious debate (usually it is hissed at whenever brought up) yet he buys into that BS, too.

hope that makes it plain :hi:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

11. Okay, gotcha. Thanks.

[frankenforpres]

3. i support franken

saying he is a neocon simply because he is jewish is pretty bigoted

[iconoclastNYC]

35. Bigoted?

Right.... I think crying anti-semitism at every turn is pretty dishonest.

[frankenforpres]

54. if so inoffensive

if it was so inoffensive, why was the post deleted


message 33 has this cute comment:

As for being Jewish as proof of being a neo-con, that isn't always the case, but it doesn't hurt either.

would it be bigoted to say: As for being MEXICAN as proof of being a CRIMINAL, that isn't always the case, but it doesn't hurt either.


it is stereotyping and bullshit

yes, i understand the original neo cons were jews. but so what, franken is not a neocon

[Jim Sagle]

60. Calling anyone a neocon just because he's Jewish IS antisemitic.

And everybody goddamn well knows it.

[BlooInBloo]

38. Who said Franken was a neocon simply because he's Jewish?

[TroglodyteScholar]

103. The deleted post above... n/t

[Benhurst]

4. No matter what his rationale (or rationalization) is for supporting

Bush's illegal and immoral war, Frankin's position makes him unfit to be the Democratic candidate.

[panader0]

5. Lies and the Lying Liars was a great book

I thought he was a good guy

[frankenforpres]

6. he is a great guy

rush limbaugh is a big fat idiot is a great book


he had the lowdown on delay in print(the thruth with jokes) before it became a huge story


i dont get this anti franken thing i see every so often on the board

[otokogi]

9. criticizing his position on iraq is not anti-franken

thats just another symptom of our sorry sound-byte culture

[frankenforpres]

15. i guess you missed

the deleted message

i would say that was fairly anti-franken

[Benhurst]

14. Frankin's books are great. I always look forward to reading

them.

Sadly, if you want a candidate who sees nothing wrong with black box voting, believes the Bush Crime Family's conspiracy theory about 911, and supports Bush's illegal and immoral war, then Frankin is your man.

He should stick to writing his books.

[Ioo]

8. I Just find him dull as hell on the radio, and always behind a day or 5...

I like my talk radio to be about events of the day, not 2 days ago. I find Al so scripted that I think that if, god forbid, another 9/11 type event happened while he was on the air, I would not know about it till I got home and sat in front of my PC. He used guests to hide his lack of talent when it comes to speaking off script. He can not fill 3 hours of show...

I do listen once in a while, he has good guests, not great, but good.

[NYCGirl]

12. With "friends" like Counterpunch, the Democrats don't need enemies. NT

[otokogi]

13. only the right have the benefit of 'friends' in the media

fyi

[no_to_war_economy]

18. i cant wait till Democrats have control

Counter Punch will be right there exposing all their bullshit as well

[NYCGirl]

26. If you have so little use for Democrats, why are you posting here? NT

[blm]

45. Yep - looks like another reincarnation of David Horowitz

Faux lefties out to divide Dems.

[no_to_war_economy]

61. we lefties just want a party of

Feingolds and Kucinichs

[blm]

66. Sure - then tell us all the battles that have been fought over the years

that you believe so strongly in that Feingold LED forcefully. Go ahead - 13 years is alot of ground to cover - tell us what battles YOU want leaders to take on and which you want them to stick their necks out vocally and stand with each other. We can learn from people who share their toughest battles.

And I have stood with Kucinich for 33 years - even when most people were calling him a DINO for his more conservative positions. I trusted him, even when others wanted him kicked out for siding with GOP legislation on abortion and flagburning. I understood DK's heart and supported him no matter what. I was right to not give up on him.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[coalition_unwilling]

78. Why the slam on "Counterpunch.org"? Just wondering. I find

many of the articles and op-ed pieces there are calling the truth long before the MSM gets it.

[K-W]

86. ignore, mispost

[i radical]

16. franken? the m-o-r radio announcer? little too bland for my taste nt

[frankenforpres]

17. i actually find him LOL funny

i think he is funny and informative. his show reminds me of the things i like best about the Daily Show

[i radical]

20. franken is way too astute to be holding anything back

including a full opposition to the invasion and occupation when it may have mattered and that bugs me to no end. why was he using his gifts to support the war?

[blm]

19. Anyone who says Kerry was FOR war is LYING - he was for weapon inspections

and diplomatic efforts FIRST with war as a last resort - and then when Bush chose war, Kerry spoke against his refusal to allow the weapon inspectors and diplomats to do their job to avoid war.

But, thanks to the GOP controlled media and loudmouth lefties who were so EASILY spun by them, Bush was allowed OFF THE HOOK for violating the IWR that would have PREVENTED war if it had been administered faithfully. But, NOOOOOOO..... the spin was that those Dems wanted war Bush's way.

Thanks alot, dumbasses for blaming a RESOLUTION, instead of forcing closer scrutiny on Bush's VIOLATIONS of its guidelines.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[blm]

22. That's SPIN - uninformed SPIN - you need a smart captain to get you OUT of

war just as we had a dumbass lead us into it. Or are were you expecting any one damn fool from Counterpunch to submit a doable withdrawal plan that dealt with the REALITY that Bush already had the country involved with war?

And you CANNOT call what I posted bs, because it is the truth - Kerry consistently said that the weapons inspectors and diplomats were not allowed to finish and that Bush was rushing to war unnecessarily. Too many lefties put their fingers in their ears and sung "LA LA LA - YOu are a warmonger"much to the delight of the GOP controlled media, and completely oblivious to the side for war they were actually helping.

[otokogi]

24. he failed his leadership duties when he abandoned his crew on the beach

the day after the election after promising to fight like hell to make sure every vote counted :puke:

L O S E R

[blm]

25. WHAT LEGAL EVIDENCE were you handing to him that day?

Because as it STILL STANDS - they have no legal evidence until a whistleblower who was in on the machine fraud steps forward.

Don't even pretend that there is anything else - because rigged machines have no evidence after.

You blame Kerry because he trusted his party's INFRASTRUCTURE to be doing its job while he was doing his. Have you been working on the party's infrastructure since then? Kerry has and now supports banning all electronic voting machines state by state. What are you going to do to help?

[otokogi]

27. COP OUT

per usual, it is almost 6 years since the first theft and NONE of our leaders are out front on this critical issue :wtf:

burn me once shame on YOU...

[blm]

29. You are copping out by not even focusing blame correctly - the DNC and

Dem members of election boards in every county are the ones who are responsible for securing the machines and protecting voters - if people are too dumb to know that, then of course they blame Kerry - they can't wrap their minds around the facts.

And by blaming Kerry instead of CORRECTING the REAL problems within the Dem infrastructure, dumbasses help ensure that it will happen again in 2006 without Kerry anywhere on the ballot.

[otokogi]

32. responsibility is something no one in DC is willing to assume

fyi: calling voters "dumbasses" won't hope your or his case :hi:

[blm]

34. People who blame Kerry instead of Dem infrastructure ARE dumbasses who

don't KNOW that it was the Dem infrastructure in charge of securing the voter rolls and the machines for ALL candidates on the ballot, and for all Dem voters. And that is a task that needs to be dealt with EVERY DAY by the party leading up to EVERY election, not just a presidential candidate who isn't even known until 6 months before the election.

[otokogi]

37. fyi: leaders don't point fingers

or call voters DUMBASSES

cya :hi:

[blm]

40. Kerry never pointed fingers and took more blame than he should have.

And I am not a politician - I'm a consistent truthteller who calls bullshit no matter what side it comes from.

I know how David Horowitz got started as a faux lefty working to divide Democrats. I highly doubt that the GOP has given up their standard operating procedure, and are now using it with the help of the wider reach of the internet.

And YES - the ignoranti who are unfamiliar with exactly how GOP operatives have been employing this same tactic for decades ARE susceptible dumbasses who don't know any better because they believe the SPIN from faux lefties.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

43. Perfect example of another GOP tactic - anyone who uses truth is a crybaby

.

[otokogi]

46. beware anyone who thinks they have the whole truth

and call others dumbasses who point to other legitimate pov's

something i learned long ago...

ping me when kerry apologizes to Mark Crispin Miller :hi:

None Dare Call It Stolen
Ohio, the election, and America's servile press
http://www.markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com

[blm]

47. Did Miller apologize? Miller spoke PARTIAL truth and

exaggerated his encounter to make it sound better for broadcast. Kerry's SPOKESPERSON replied poorly and MINIMIZED the encounter and did so awkwardly - neither should have done what they did, but Kerry certainly does NOT owe Miller an apology.

[otokogi]

53. yawn

it's always somebody else, eh?

[Jim Sagle]

64. Uh...some of them aren't so dumb at all...if ya know what I mean.

[blm]

67. Gotcha

.

[otokogi]

23. exactly

and now our dem leaders come out with a new plan that does not mention Iraq once.

when kerry was asked if he would have voted differently knowing everything he then knew he said no, i thought what a DUMB-ASS.

and then the man went back on his word to fight election fraud, turn tailed an ran as fast as he could the day after the election, that really pisses me off.

he should be out front on the BBV issue but noooooo... he is AWOL, again.

a real disappointment for me personally.

[frankenforpres]

28. he did what was politically convenient for his ambitions(n/t)

[blm]

30. You side with Nixon, Reagan and Bush. They all said the same thing about

Kerry to distract from Kerry's work exposing their crimes. No, no - it wasn't the crimes Kerry was exposing, Kerry was just grandstanding for his political ambition. Really - - we are victims of Kerry's ambition. IranContra never happened, neither did BCCI, and neither did CIA drugrunning.

Nice that faux lefties are continuing the same storyline put in place in the 70s and ramped up again in the 80s and 90s, all to protect CRIMINAL administrations.

Donald Segretti and Karl Rove spit on you while they're using you.

[frankenforpres]

31. what? he was with bush on this vote

and tried to have it both ways with his speech before the vote. the dems without presidential ambitions didnt fall for this obvious pug stunt. yet kerry edwards and i believe gephardt did. so they were either dumb, or trying to be pres. i prefer to think they arent dumb

[blm]

39. Ever try applying context? Did you know that Kerry and other Dems had been

trying since 1998 to get weapon inspectors back into Iraq and working towards removing Saddam peacefully through diplomatic means?

You think the biggest peacenik in the senate wasn't SERIOUS when he said War should be a last resort? In the context of his entire career, and with his efforts from 1998, Kerry was being consistent.

[Why Syzygy]

51. When will you realize

that Kerry is a lame horse? An also ran. He RAN for President. It was never his intention to actually BE President. Anyone with a grain of objectivity can see that. He was glad handing and back slapping Bush at every debate. Seems the more debates they had, the more he admired Bush. Would you have us believe that was show?

Hillary faces the same challenges. She is too corporate for a true progressive audience. She needs to hang onto her Senate seat, if she can and forget higher aspirations. The tide is turning. Progressives are not going to put up with the same ole any more. Get used to it.

[blm]

55. Poor analysis - anyone who thinks JK didn't win those debates DELIBERATELY

and DECISIVELY has no business spreading their analysis and expect comprehensive people to buy their load of shit.

Kerry won all 3 debates and MOCKED Bush afterwards with brooms indicating they were well aware they SWEPT all 3 debates.

Your view is just absurd on its face.

[Why Syzygy]

56. Of course he won the debates.

Never said he didn't. However the hugs and smiles at the end and the peppered statements of how he so admired Bush negated every win. I happen to believe he won the election as well. Something else he didn't lay claim to. George W. Bush has NEVER been elected by the People. That's why we cannot understand why Dems go along with him. It is a clear violation of representation. And if the Houses won't stand up and make it right, then what are we to do? Cheer on one little person (Kerry) who has done some investigation, etc. ad infinitum. I've read your posts for years. I'm still not convinced of anything you offer. I see the same in others here. So, what does that tell you? We are all dumb asses? And you have the true answer? huh. You might want to check up on reality every once in awhile.

[blm]

62. Kerry never said Bush was great or admired him - what a crock. And if

REAL HISTORY and the facts garnered from the NATIONAL SEcURITY ARCHIVES and the congressional record don't effect YOUR opinion, then that speaks volumes.

Opinion means more to you than FACTS and actual historic records. Popularity is fine for the shallowminded. I never sought popularity and never will, especially if it means ignoring the historic record.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

44. Bush only provided the intelligence he wanted Congress to see

Bush lied seven ways from Sunday to Congress and to us.

He pulled most of the democrat's security clearances immediately after 9/11, so they not only didn't see the same intelligence as he did, they were as in the dark as most people regarding what the CIA and other agencies knew.

Then he lied that he would work with the UN and try diplomacy first. The resolution Kerry voted yes on was not a declaration of war, but an authorization to use force if all other methods failed. As we now know, Bush wasn't interested in other methods.

I didn't believe Bush, but I don't live inside the beltway and don't have to fight the right wing corporate media bias every day.

[Why Syzygy]

52. True.

Let us never forget this is Bush's war, and his only. Congress never made a declaration. They should feel like scum for not seeing through his bushshit and going along with his imbecile sham. Plenty of us saw it for what it was. We heard the lame-ass "proof" of WMDs and TERROR, etc. Did not buy it for a minute. Bush just allowed the Twin Towers to be taken down, and yet they just buy into his bullshit? Aren't lawyers taught to examine everything? Not in this case.

[bvar22]

57. These Democrats (and a few Republicans) could see through the BushShit,

and had the Wisdom and Integrity to vote AGAINST the IWR.
Did these people have access to information that was unavailable to John Kerry (and the other Pro-War Democrats)?

The HONOR ROLL:
United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent who courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq were:

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Re
eil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC) J
ohn Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Gresham Barrett (R-South Carolina)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland) Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office) James Clyburn (D-South Carolina) Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
John Duncan, Jr. (R-Tennessee)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas) Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
John Hostettler (R-Indiana)
Amo Houghton (R-New York, retired from office)
Jay Inslee (D-Washington)


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[blm]

59. What they didn't have was JK's record since 1998 of working to get weapon

inspectors and diplomats back into Iraq to work for a peaceful transition of regime.

Kerry was being consistent in wanting to get inspectors and diplomats back in, and was consistent in saying that Bush needed to let them do their work FIRST to prove was war did NOT have to happen.

[Why Syzygy]

65. Thank you so much!

That list gave me chills. Those are the true American Patriots. They cast their votes for our Freedoms. Spread "Democracy"? This is such a fallacy. The USA is a Republic. Does anyone pay attention to the flag pledge? ... pledge allegiance to the flag and the REPUBLIC for which it stands.... Democracy is not equality. It is a poor offering to be going about spreading. If anyone were actually really interested, instead of using "Democracy" as an excuse to take over the world, one would realize that what makes us "free" is the Constitution and the rights granted therein. The rights to make personal choices. To engage in intellectual debate. To disagree with your neighbor but realize there is a higher good and so we make compromises. We are so off base from what the dreamers who established this nation had in mind.

I really appreciate you posting that list. Kerry isn't there. Clinton isn't there. Take heed.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

72. Thanks for this list

Sometimes, I read the news and think the entire party has been neutered and that all hope is lost and that no one has the guts to really fight these guys.

At least a few had the brains to see through the BS and the courage to deal with the fallout. M$M was blatantly promoting the war and Bush was still popular - it was not an easy call for a politician.

[LittleClarkie]

101. But the guy you support with you name fell for that "pug" stunt

I don't get what you're trying to say. What makes Franken different then?

[frankenforpres]

106. he admits it

whilst kerry says he wasnt voting for war

[LittleClarkie]

108. And I believe him

His speeches before and after explain his reasoning, as does a book he wrote in 1997. I knew where he was coming from even if I didn't necessarily agree. It didn't seem like expediency to me, esp. knowing his past writing on the subject.

[coalition_unwilling]

81. I don't believe Kerry spoke out strongly enough

or unequivocally enough at a time when speaking out would have made a difference. In fact, during the 2004 campaign, I remember seeing Kerry interviewed in Boulder, CO. The interviewer asked Kerry whether, knowing what he knew by then, i.e., that there were no WMD or ties to al Quaida, he still would have voted for the IWR.

Without blinking an eye, Kerry said "Yes." It was at that point that he lost my active support for his campaign. Yeah, I held my nose and voted for him but not without giving the Democratic Socialist candidate some serious consideration first.

[K-W]

88. So he's been calling for a pullout all along? EOM

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[iconoclastNYC]

36. Yup.

The hot new thing is to label yourself a progressive all the while pledging fealty to the DLC corporations-first movement.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

42. Democratic consultants are 14 years behind the times

If a democratic candidate runs from the gut and is truly progressive, they will do much better than republican lite.

Unfortunately, the big money wants republican vs republican lite elections, so they get their money's worth either way.

[joeunderdog]

50. He'll get Diebolded if he doesn't make nicey nice.

Oh, wait a minute...there's no such thing as Election Fraud, Al, is there?

Sorry, I forgot you missed that whole entire issue. Musta slipped under the radar.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

71. Diebolded, Swift-Boated etc.

It's pretty tough when elections are fraudulent and media is slanted against you.

It makes what Clinton accomplished in the 90's that much more amazing.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

75. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mirandapriestly]

77. He had Richard Perle on his show?I didn't even know that

When he comes on I change the channel. He won't "go there" with election fraud or 9-11 which are two of the most, if not the most important issues. Also his stand on the war, how can ANYBODY not be against it? He's brilliant and funny, but it's a sad state of affairs that those who are considering running for office somehow seem to know that they can't come out against election fraud and questioning 9-11. I don't know who or what is behind that blackout, but it's a mistake.

[frankenforpres]

79. i heard the perle interview

it wasnt like he was high fiving him

[paulk]

48. looks like a pre-emptive RNC strike against Franken

oh, you mean Counterpunch is a left wing site?

[Jim Sagle]

58. A FAKE leftwing site. -

Funny how they ALWAYS bash Dems harder than Repugs - all in the name of "preogressivism."

[K-W]

92. How dare they hold democrats accountable!

[gully]

99. What about Nader? Is he being held accountable by counterpunch?

Nope, he's a columnist.

[K-W]

90. Speaking of the RNC

isnt comparing someone who doesnt support Franken to the 'enemy' the kind of tactic we often look down upon when practiced by the Republicans?

If its ok to compare counterpunch to the republicans because niether support Franken at the moment, isnt it ok to compare liberals to terrorists because neither support Bush at the moment?

[LSK]

49. does Franken have a legit chance of taking Colemans seat??

I'd rather have another D in the Senate over a R. Have there been any hypothetical polls done?

[gully]

69. counterpunch = counterPRODUCTIVE

I have no idea why counterpunch is considered any more credible than newsmax?

http://www.google.com/search?q=ralph+nader&btnG=Google+Search&domains=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org&sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org

Political opponents write for their publication.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

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[gully]

76. Ah yes the anti-israeli propaganda

hitler would be proud.

[Jim Sagle]

82. I knew it, I knew it, and I knew it.

That's what CounterPunch readers REALLY like.

But this is not PU (Palestinian Underground) but DU. So what good to us is a site that bashes Democrats harder than Republicans?

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

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[gully]

105. I thought they were killing themselves for 12 virgins in heaven?

:eyes:

[no_to_war_economy]

110. where there is no hope

there is terrorism

[gully]

111. Sorry, I lived "no hope" growing up in poverty

I'm not a terrorist.

I agree that hopelessness promotes dysfunction, but there isn't any excuse for terrorism (killing innocents) EVER.

[oc2002]

74. I do not know if AL was against the war before the invasion or not.

He may have been for it as much as Kerry was, which is to say, they both bought into the lies and machinations of the administration.

I never did, does that make me smarter than Al and Kerry?

I would like to point out that I agree that pulling out ASAP is the right choice, staying there longer will achieve nothing, even the polls of Iraqi people trust the insurgents more than they do us.

I agree on 70% if issues with Al, so thats better than having a republican in that office, although I would prefer he stay on Air America.

[Jim Sagle]

83. Actually he sucks, although his guests are good, some of them.

He'd sure be a better Senator than Normie.

[oc2002]

80. Counterpunch is right

I read both those articles, althought I never heard of the one from a year ago, on this issue they are correct.

The 'withdraw' topic is taboo on Air America, not just AL's show. I know this because I listen to AA alot.

I have to agree with the assessment on that issue and that AA is just a big mouthpiece for the DNC.

[Jim Sagle]

85. And CounterPunch is a fake lefty site that serves to divide Dems.

[K-W]

93. All dems must conform!

No one should read articles by people who arent loyal to the Democratic Party. If they are not with us they are against us. If they disagree with anything the party does they are no different than the enemy!

[gully]

104. So should it be ok to post right wing talking points here?

If not, why?

[otokogi]

107. debating the establishment is what the underground is all about

some can't take any criticism but that isn't helpful if progress is to be made.

[gully]

96. Correct.

nt

[gully]

95. You don't listen to Randi Rhodes, or Mike Malloy?

huh.

[oc2002]

102. Actualy, no. Not that much.

I have listened to them on occasion, I do believe Mike Malloy sounds to me like he would be for pulling the troops out from his past shows. Randi is too whiney to listen to, but thats just me. I am listening to Randi now actualy. Randi was dead against the invasion of Iraq as I recall, and so was Malloy.

[coalition_unwilling]

84. The Cindy Sheehan issue: if I remember correctly, Franken

initally took part in the RW smear campaign against Sheehan. At that point, I stopped listening to him or caring what he thought.

[NYCGirl]

87. You don't remember correctly. She's been a guest on his show. NT

[coalition_unwilling]

89. Yes, I know that happened later. I'm referring to the

events surrounding the initial encampment and the RW response to them, characterizing Sheehan as "urinating on her son's grave" among other odious smears. As I recall, Franken didn't exactly take to Sheehan at that point. Although I can't remember exactly what it was he said that put me off.

[NYCGirl]

91. Convenient that you can't remember. I've never heard him say anything

against her.

Edited to add: Perhaps that sounded harsh — but of all the people to accuse of using RW talking points! That's just nuts!

[coalition_unwilling]

94. I'm really sorry I can't remember exactly what it was, but I

do remember Franken being less than 100% supportive of Sheehan, at the very time that the issue hung in the balance.

Can any other DU'er out there remember what Franken may have said, either pro- or anti-Cindy?

[oc2002]

97. neither, pro nor anti. Al does not talk about it.

it is taboo to talk about any substantial deviation from the Bush war in Iraq on Air America it seems.

[LittleClarkie]

100. Complicit seems like the wrong word to me

He disagreed with Counterpunch and those who were against the war from the beginning. That doesn't make him "complicit." It simply means he disagreed.

What does he say now? Is he still for the war?

[dogday]

109. I love Franklin and Air America

But will not and can not support any candidate that supports the war... That simple...

[LeftCoast]

112. Locking

This thread has degenerated into a flaming flame fest.