A conversation at a party last night...

[Mythsaje]

Someone--admittedly a person I don't consider particularly informed at all--was saying that the war had dragged on too long and it was time to bring the troops home.

I was happy to agree with that. Then she actually said "We shouldn't have gone there in the first place. We should've bombed the hell out of them."

I was stunned. "Bombed WHO?" I asked.

"The ones who sent people over here to do what they did."

"Well," I replied, "that certainly wasn't Iraq. Hell, Iraq and Osama had NOTHING to with one another. Osama and Saddam HATED one another."

Then she actually started defending the soldiers killing civilians, saying "collateral damage" and that a friend of hers who'd been over there told her that young kids would come up and try to take their weapons from them. He admitted to breaking one boy's arm (the kid was about eight) to prevent him from doing so.

I don't really believe this, and even if I did, it doesn't excuse them running amuck like they did in Haditha.

I told her that attacking Iraq was like having the response after one neighbor breaks into your house and steals your stuff of running over and shooting another neighbor just because they both happen to be of the same race.

And then I pointed out that the hijackers were primarily SAUDIS.

I was totally stunned how ignorant this woman was about what was going on over there. And how we got there in the first place. And if eight year old boys are trying to take soldiers guns and shoot them, that's an even better argument for getting the FUCK OUT OF THERE.

Bomb the hell out of them.

Arrgh!

:banghead:

I left soon afterward, totally disgusted. I don't know if I got through to her, but I couldn't believe how ignorant she was. It's one thing to have a RWer who THINKS they're informed because of FOX and Limbaugh and the like say stupid shit, it's another thing entirely to have someone who doesn't take the time to learn anything projecting nonsense opinions into the debate.

[otohara]

1. You'd Think After All This Time

and all the lies being exposed....Is she part of the 33%?

[liberal N proud]

2. She obviously watches FAUX news

The propagandist did such a successfully snow job with the attack on Iraq being tied to 9/11 that the kool-aid bunch STILL believe.

No Virgina, there are no ties between Iraq and 9/11.

[Mythsaje]

7. I actually don't think she does...

though she may get information second-hand from some people who do. She seemed mostly uninformed rather than misinformed, if you get my meaning.

[liberal N proud]

13. uniformed is just as dangerous as misinformed

Either way it demonstrates the lack of initiative by the individual to form an educated opinion.
She is just the type of voter the republicans love.

[Mythsaje]

14. Don't I know it...

I wanted to scream...

[babylonsister]

3. IMO these people are the most frustrating; spouting

lies or ill-informed opinions they heard from Rush/Hannity/Faux/O'Lielly, without bothering to discover if what they heard was the truth. You hear lots of them on CSPAN in the a.m. They drive me crazy!

[in_cog_ni_to]

4. I had the same experience last night with 4 uninformed adults.

It's mind boggling how ignorant the sheeple are, isn't it?:banghead:

Here's my story...as sad and pathetic as it is.:(

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1503437&mesg_id=1503437

[kittenpants]

5. That's one of the disturbing trends I've noticed too...

Some of the people who agree that we should pull out now are some of the same idiots who were gung ho for the war in the first place out of ignorance. They've maintained their state of ignorance throughout, but now their gut/popular opinion/whatever is telling them the war has gone on too long so they're for leaving. They've maybe come to the right conclusion, but they certainly aren't any more intelligent than they were in the first place.

Unfortunately I've met a few people just as stupid as the lady you're talking about, so I feel your pain.

[salin]

6. One response that I haven't had the oppty to try...

asking these folks where they got the idea that Saddam and Osama were linked?

Point out that Cheney and Bush have not only stated that there was no link, but have also repeatedly said that they have 'no idea why some of the public thinks there is/was a link'. In short, Bush and Cheney have called the folks who still believe this ignorant and uniformed.

So - where did they get this idea (that the two were linked?) - from the conservative news (ala faux or the talking radio heads shows) - if so where did those sources get the idea that the two were linked (implied - from the administration).

Ask again - so where did you get this idea? Certainly not from the Pres or Vice Pres - unless you are going to call them liars (by stating that they suggested there was a link)?

The next question would have to go along the lines of what the pres and vice pres think about people who still believe there is a link (based on their saying that there is no link and that they never said there was a link...)?

I just wonder how making someone go around and around in that particular circle would go - not at the moment - but later after the seeds for thought have been planted.

[Swamp Rat]

12. "So, are you saying President Bush and Vice-President Cheney are liars?!?"

:wow:

:D I think I will frame it that way the next time this comes up in conversation. :D

[salin]

20. please report back

let me know how it works. I simply do not run into folks who believe the link between Saddam and OBL - so there is no one for me to try it out on.

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

25. It's not often I run into those folks in New Orleans either, unless they

are inbred, redneck tourists who come here to get drunk and gamble (and come out of the closet far away from home ;) ), or unless I go to Metairie, a Jefferson Parish suburb of New Orleans - where David Duke used to live and where you can still ocassionally find a 15 yr old Duke campaign sign. :eyes:

Normally, I just yell at the creatures then walk away.: "Get your ass to Iraq and support the troops!"



:)

[salin]

27. lol - don't know why but that just made me think of an episode of

Michael Moore's old TV show. He went to home districts of then prominent republicans in Congress - and talked to folks about waste in govt spending (getting them all worked up in a frenzy) - then asks why there is a big Coast Guard grant given to Newt Gingrich's LAND-LOCKED district? But the funniest thing (which is what came to mind as I read this) was after a day of talking with folks (with camera) and getting them to agree about how mad they were at govt spending - he goes out on a boat on a resort lake, and gets on a bullhorn telling folks that they can help demonstrate how much they dislike govt spending by clearing off the govt supported lake. It was hilarious!

[Swamp Rat]

31. Jeebus! I wish I had seen his TV show.

I recently saw a few clips on Youtube and was floored. :D

What was the name of the show? I'd like to look it up to see if episodes are available on DVD.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

33. I believe it was called "TV Nation".

[Swamp Rat]

36. Thanks

[salin]

34. I think it was called "TV Nation"

ran in 1994-95. I think it was not renewed, but was then picked up for a second season (maybe with a name change) on ? Pbs? I am a bit foggy on it - I was doing all consuming grad work at the time - only caught a couple of episodes - they were great. I would love to see them all - I'll have to look at dvds as well.

[Swamp Rat]

37. Ok, let me know if you find anything.

I need to get back to writing my thesis... RIGHT NOW! :eyes:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

40. Here:

http://www.tv.com/tv-nation/show/9951/summary.html

Status: Ended Premiered: July 19, 1994
Show Categories: News/Documentary, Reality
Welcome to the TV Nation guide at TV.com. Producer Michael Moore presented this newsmagazine as a humorous presentation that reports on things that big corporate media tends to avoid. These topics include a running feature on crimes by business corporations, positive reports on labour union activity, debunking right-wing political claims, and the general exploitation of the little person by the privileged and powerful in society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Nation

[Swamp Rat]

41. Thanks a lot!

[karlrschneider]

21. I use that argument at times too but many people refuse to believe

Bush publically said on national TV there was no connection. I wish I had some way to carry around a VCR so I could show them (assuming the video could be located somehow)...but I clearly recall it. Unfortunately not exactly when though...
:eyes:

[salin]

28. Dollars to donuts, I bet Media Matters has it archived somewhere.

[karlrschneider]

38. They sure might but how can I make it portable?

:D

[salin]

39. when is mac going to come out with an audio/visual Ipod?

;-)

I dunno, memorize the website - and make a wager (include liquor in the wager) that includes going to the nearest open-access to the internet place (a local library?) for viewing?

[kentuck]

8. Perhaps if CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC all ran the same story for a week straight

that Saddam was not connected to 9/11. The Administration intentionally lied to take us to war against Iraq. And then they could put a large BREAKING NEWS across the screen. Maybe then the word would get ut. I blame the media if there are that many people that still do not know the minimal facts about why we are at war and why our troops are still dying.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

35. You mean, put the same effort into DEBUNKING the lie as they did PROMOTING

it in the first place? :shrug:

Now there's a thought!

:think:

[TomInTib]

9. Funny. I was just yesterday talking to a VERY well known TV

talking head who told me that in his opinion, we should pull out right away (fine) and then,"turn the desert to glass".

This is someone I sit and talk with about an hour almost daily.

I was absolutely stunned.

[Mythsaje]

10. I tried to point out

that if someone invaded US we'd consider all sorts of behavior perfectly acceptable.

The good thing is that another woman at the party was saying that it breaks her heart to hear people bemoaning all our casualties while not even considering how many Iraqis have died because of the war.

[kittenpants]

11. you can't say who it was.....?

please?!!!

[TomInTib]

22. I am sorry, it was said in confidence.

Maybe I am of the Old School, but I just cannot betray a friend who was just voicing an opinion.

But I will guarantee you one thing. If he ever voices a hypocrtical opinion on air, I will be all over this and his ass, too.

[kittenpants]

26. I respect the old school sensibilities!

But I can't deny my new school curiosity! :)

[lumpy]

18. Heard a lot of people say this

after the Gulf War. Some ignorant people don't have enough brains to even rely on their gut feelings.

[karlrschneider]

23. Next time you see this person, ask him/her why she wants to nuke

the same people Bush claims to be trying to liberate and give democracy to.

[Mythsaje]

24. "Quoting Ted Nugent, are we?"

That puts that person into some rather disturbing company.

[Divernan]

29. We well know talking heads are hired for their looks, not their brains.

Does this revelation of what he really thinks cause you to consider downgrading him from "friend" to "acquaintance"? For my part, I can't count as a friend someone whom I don't respect - so when some former friends revealed their bloodthirsty attitude based on religious/racial bias, I sadly faced the fact that these were people I could no longer enjoy as friends.

[ComerPerro]

15. Lets just slaughter every Iraqi until the job is done

EDIT: maybe that way we can be finally greeted as liberators, by those we don't kill

[Mythsaje]

16. Then we can move along to all the other Muddle East countries!

I hate this kind of stupidity. I really do.

[ComerPerro]

17. Kill them until they love us

[Ezra the Prankster]

19. Tell the lady...

...That if our troops go around shooting people who aren't trying to kill them, they can't possibly win the war, because they'll only make new enemies at an exponential rate. If that guy they murdered wasn't an insurgent, he's probably got 20 friends and family members who hate Americans now and are going to help out the insurgents. Regardless of whether Americans feel like they're protecting themselves by killing citizens they suspect might be insurgents, the cold hard numbers say otherwise.

[90-percent]

32. Your friend

Your friend is proof the US Government does not want well informed citizens and has set up a "system" that promotes the ignorance that your friend displayed.

The less informed we are, the more crap Government can pull hidden in plain sight. The last thing they want is an informed citizenry. Public education and main stream media are the apparatus they use to keep us uninformed. Our only hope is the internet, and they're sure working overtime to SHUT THAT DOWN TOO!

-85% Jimmy

[Hubert Flottz]

30. "Bomb the hell out of them"

That's what terrorists do right?