GM said they dropped the electric car because the amount of

[heidler1]

sales were way too low to make it profitable. The Bush bunch didn't subsidize it so this worries me that electric cars are way in the future. Over half of the US believes in Global Warming to some degree, but what percent would buy a short trip car?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. GM lied.

[Eric J in MN]

2. They weren't offered for sale in recent years, just lease,

and the waiting list of people who wanted to lease an electic car was huge.

[SoCalDem]

3. Um.. They REFUSED to sell the cars..They were "lease-only"

and the people who leased them BEGGED to buy them....

[Warpy]

7. I know two people here who leased them and both

BEGGED to buy them. GM had them CRUSHED rather than make a buck on their sale. What does that tell you about their priorities?

This is a criminal act, but the executives responsible it will undoubtedly die old and rich and in bed.

[OzarkDem]

24. What do union auto workers have to say?

Can anyone from organized labor comment on this? Just wondering...

[heidler1]

42. They did say on the tv show where I saw it that they didn't sell them

but I forgot that part, sorry.

[ryan_cats]

4. They said (GM) that they spent over a Billion dollars to develop it.

They said (GM) that they spent over a Billion dollars to develop it.

People that had them begged GM to sell them to them when the program was over instead of destroying them. GM said it was due to liability issues I believe. Does anyone know if GM did destroy them all?

Then again, GM is also the company that bought and eliminated trolly systems in a few cities in the US in the late 40s and 50s (LA was one).

[Poppyseedman]

5. Other issues are at play here.

The EV1 will sell for about $33,000, excluding the large battery charger needed at home for the three-hour charge or the portable unit that takes 15 hours to do the job.

We are an "on the go" type of people. "Sorry dear, no ice cream tonight, the car is charging"

And at least with this version of the electric car, you can't even think about going on a long trip. The car's maximum range is 90 miles on the highway with a top speed of 80 mph.

That's a 45 mile trip one way. Most people can't even go to work on that range today.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9610/16/electric.car/index.html

[NYC]

6. They should let short range people buy them.

There are some people with 2 cars. One is simply for driving to the train station. That one could be a short range electric car.

They should give us options.

[Poppyseedman]

9. Most people investing $33,000 in a car would want

a vehicle that does more than a short range trip.

[Eric J in MN]

10. If people hate devices which require charging, then why are cellphones

so popular?

[Poppyseedman]

13. Come on, you can't be serious.

You can charge your cell phone in 30 minutes. You can use it even while you are charging it.

Think about it. You drive to work and back. You barely have enough charge to make it home. You are three hours away from using your car again because it takes that long to charge it. You need to run to the store to get extra cheese for the pizza you are making.

Oops, can't go. Cars not charged. All that for $33,000

Do you dare take a chance to get stuck somewhere?

[Eric J in MN]

23. Some people live within 5 miles of work.

So when they get home from work having charged the car the night before, they can go to the store without more charging.

[jmowreader]

27. I can't see why their batteries needed three hours to charge

The Exide tubular batteries in Raymond's electric forklifts take one hour to charge.

I wonder what would happen if a company like E-Z Go or Club Car, who make golf carts, were to team up with Raymond, who makes electric forklifts, to produce a car.

[erknm]

29. Electric Cars are not the answer, they fake us into believing

that we are green. But behavior changes are needed, and since these hybrids make us believe that we can continue to use our planet with selfish abandon, they make the problem much, much worse. Ever hear of environmental justice? I really do not want to impose ever increasing water pollution in the ground water around the battery plants just to make the wealthy wanna be environmentalists around SoCal feel better about themselves.

These cars impose more damage on the environment than their gas guzzling cousins. Better to go hybrid, although the hybrid is also much dirtier than people realize, or want to admit.

Remember, it is the emissions per passenger mile that are important in a GHG debate, it is the passenger miles per gallon that is important in a fuel efficiency debate and it is the total passenger miles from a vehicle that much be understood before we can say if the car is green. And right now, your hybrid car puts more pollution in the ground water from the battery creation, puts more carbon in the air via the smelting for the steel, and more air and water pollution from the plastic per mile driven than does your basic full sized Detroit POS.

There are two components to making a car green, the fixed pollution created from its development and manufacture and the marginal pollution from its operation. How much you amortize the fixed pollution over more and more miles driven will determine how green it is. Unfortunately, batteries must be replaced and battery manufacture and disposal is an insanely dirty business. Because hybrids are not driven as much, and their owners tend to go for new cars, these cars are really, really dirty in this element. While they impose lower marginal environmental costs, the fixed costs are not spread over enough miles and what we are left with is essentially a much dirtier car than anyone wants to believe.

Instead of buying a hybrid or electric and trying to advertise how green you are, we would all be better off if the more selfish wanna be environmentalists would actually recognize that behavior changes are mandatory. You must change how you drive, combine trips, use public transport, carpool, move closer to work, etc. Right now, the true environmentalists I see are those who put six people in a van pool at 8 vehicle miles per gallon and thus 48 passenger miles per gallon. The true environmentalists are those who park their gas guzzlers at the metrolink station and ride the train into LA with me.

So while the hybrid owning wanna be environmentalists may feel better about themselves, they may feel good about pulling their environmental pants down and exposing themselves, the fact is, until they are willing to actually drop their selfish attitudes and change their behavior, they will only be fake, wanna be evironmentalists, and no number of hybrids or electrics will change that.

FH

[zeemike]

37. How about 8 people in a Electric powered van

And park it under a parking garage with solar panels on the roof that charges the batteries while you are at work. And a spare battery at home charging on another solar panel on the roof.
Then you get 48 passenger miles for NO gallons of gas.

[heidler1]

44. The Hybred has batteries too.

[newyawker99]

46. Hi erknm!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[zeemike]

35. Well the average mileage one puts on a car is 12-15000

If it is 1200 a month it is 300 a week or 50 a day.

I know that it is rare when I go more than 90 Miles in one day

[alfredo]

40. They should design them so you can swap out batterie.

You get home and swap out the low battery for a charged one then go on your merry way.

[joeunderdog]

25. People have to eat 3x/day, gas their car up every week,

pay their credit card every month--everything requires maintenance. What gives?

[Nabia2004]

20. "most people"? I suspect the opposite

I know very few people who drive more than 90 miles a day. Most seem to average 30 to 50 miles round trip.

Found this, Census Bureau Reports...

Americans spend more than 100 hours commuting to work each year, according to American Community Survey (ACS) data released today by the U.S. Census Bureau. This exceeds the two weeks of vacation time (80 hours) frequently taken by workers over the course of a year. For the nation as a whole, the average daily commute to work lasted about 24.3 minutes in 2003.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/american_community_survey_acs/004489.html

Yet, this is what we get from the CNN article.

"Where I live, people commute 120, 150, 200 miles a day," auto columnist Jim Powell said. "This car may not work for them."

[misternormal]

26. Electric Car Pricing...

One model...

Car..... $ 3,000
50Mi. Extension cord ... $30,000

Total ... $33,000 + tax & license.

[kestrel91316]

39. I know HUGE numbers of people who commute less than 15 miles to work.

Including me (3 miles). We ALL could be using electric cars.

Better yet is a pluggable hybrid. Electric for all short trips (most days), and gas to help get ya where you have to go on the weekend.

[madokie]

8. an all electric car would take care of 99% of our auto needs

We would by one in a heart beat if they were available. My neighbor built himself one and he can go 60 or so miles on less than a dollar of electricity.

[Poppyseedman]

11. An electric car would not take care of 99% of our auto needs.

I would think a 90 mile range would not meet the needs of anyone except for people living in the city situation.

I live in Florida, a 90 mile range would not make it to the beach and back.

[wakeme2008]

14. No it would just do for 90% of the people

:)

[madokie]

15. thats cool but an all electric car with a 50 mile limit would be fine with

me, like I said 99% of our trips are 10 miles or less.

[Strelnikov_]

21. And A Fuel Cell Power Pack (Trailer?) Will Handle The Long Trips

Pure plug in EV most of the time, with a removable fuel cell for extended range.

Since the fuel cell is for intermittent use/supplemental power, use of smaller, more 'affordable' fuel cells should be possible.

An EV/Fuel Cell hybrid would eliminate most of the weight disadvantage of a PHEV with an IC engine.

For myself, I look forward to an EV for the simplicity.

With a 20 mi. EV range PHEV, I would be using the IC engine about once every three weeks.

[ashling]

18. They didn't give anyone the chance to develop infrastructure

just a few ideas:

parking lots/garage with recharging hookups - even parking meters on the street with recharging capabilities

how about interchangable batteries like the interchangable Propane gas cylyndars?

motels with charging included


.

[LifeDuringWartime]

45. parking meters

some parking meters in Paris have electric car hookups. i was floored when i saw those! (last spring)

[Vinnie From Indy]

28. Not sure about your numbers.

Your numbers on mileage and price are not carved in stone and they certainly would change if GM wanted them to change. For example, mass production would lower costs and most probably the technologies would continue to improve causing the range of travel capabilities of the cars to increase.

Edit:

I am not saying that the electric car was worth it for GM to produce. There may be much more of a future in hybrids and hydrogen cell cars. GM may be making a good business decision to pursue other alternatively fueled vehicles.

[madokie]

36. with the new batteries like the new power tool use will make a plug

in electric with a 300 or so mile range is possible today, can't think of what the batteries are called but they are lithium based, nano-carbon lithium ion or something like that. Anyways I can't wait to purchase one. my neighbor has a geo that he converted a couple years ago and he does all his local driving in it. He is using lead acid batteries and still gets around 60 miles per charge. at the tune of a little less than one dollar per charge.

[Kenergy]

12. I agree

I suspect the oil companies paid GM not to make them. When Chrysler came out with the Turbine,
oil companies bought the patent rights to it.

[Irreverend IX]

41. With nanotube capacitors, electric cars might outlast gas-powered ones

Check out this article:

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?type=article&article_id=218392803

Basically, there are devices called capacitors that can store electricity like batteries do, but traditional capacitors don't have the storage capacity of batteries. However, by using nanotubes to increase the capacitor's surface area it's possible to create capacitors with much more storage than typical batteries. What's more, these capacitors would take only a few seconds to charge up, and they wear out much more slowly than traditional chemical batteries. Electronic devices using these batteries would last for years between charges, and electric cars could probably run as long or longer than fuel ones.

[Tommy_J]

16. I drove an Impact

Sure they had shortcomings. But they were also surprisingly fun. The abundance of torque at low speeds reminded me of a big block V8. The near silence at moderate speeds was really cool. If GM wanted to they absolutely could have sold those electric cars in limited quantity.

[jwirr]

17. To bad they didn't learn anything from Henry Ford. What he

did with the automobile was make it affordable to the ordinary family and thereby sold enough of them to get rich. If the auto manufacturers would make alternative cars affordable they would sell more of them than gas guzzlers. They do not want to change because they are hand and glove with the oil companies.

[magellan]

19. The type of people who would use an electric car

...are stay-at-home parents, retirees, self-employed work at home, and students. The range limit wouldn't matter so much because the car is used mostly for local trips. This category of people doesn't generally have a large disposable income so the main concern would be AFFORDABILITY.

My husband and I, for instance, work from home. An electric car would be very practical for the shopping, post office trips and so forth we mostly use our car for. But we could never afford $33K.

The thing big greedy corps like GM always forget is the basic "Build it and they will buy -- if it's affordable". In other words, isn't it better to sell a million electric cars for $15K each than under a thousand for $33K each? Does anyone really have to do the math to see why GM are a failure in both innovation and sales?

[TreasonousBastard]

22. Everybody's given up on the all-electric car...

except for a few garage inventors. Too many other working technologies on the horizon, and GM just blew more billions into smoke along with other bright ideas like buying Fiat.

GM killed theirs when gas was a lot cheaper and for a lot less than 30 grand you could get a car that got you that 90 miles for less than 5 bucks worth of gas. So, why buy unproven technology that could strand you somewhere while not saving that much money?

If saving money is really paramount, get a beater for the commute and save some real money. If saving the planet is the deal, get a bicycle or take the bus.

[Swamp Rat]

30. I wonder how many people and animals have died because of GM?

Probably billions.

[DireStrike]

31. What about solar cars?

I was watching an ancient episode of "To tell the truth" the other day on the Game show network (yeah, I had nothing better to do.) Anyway this guy comes out and gives two stories and one is a lie. He either collects antique something or other, or built his own solar car and drives it to work every day.

"Hah!", I said, "if only that contestant had the knowledge that we have today! He would know that solar cars must be really damn hard to build, and that if the entire auto industry can't do it in the 30-odd years since this show was filmed, how could one dumb amateur possible build a working model on a few thousand dollars and a handful of months of work?"

......

Do I have to tell you which story was true?

[WestMichRad]

33. Solar cars are a reality

There is a "rayce" once every two years, the North American Solar Challenge, involving universities whose students design and build solar-powered cars. It began in 1989, sponsored by GM (now sponsored by the US Dept of Energy) and usually involves daily stages totalling somewhere near 2000 miles. The 2005 rayce was from Austin TX to Calgary Alberta; they drive on public roads (usually secondary roads). Wish I could buy one.

http://www.americansolarchallenge.org/ for photos of solar-powered cars.

Peace.

[NotGivingUp]

32. Bunch of freaking-ass liars! Don't buy their cars until they do it right!!

[buzzard]

34. My friend has a small company that has put a prototype EV on the

market in Norway, It is called Maya after his daughter he is a brilliant man and has done much of the research on the battery that has been used in the vehicle. His wife even insisted that he convert her Suzuki to electric which was done. He has a true passion about this project and the need for clean technology.


http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/05/maya_100_ev_to_.html

Electrovaya, a Canadian firm specializing in portable power systems and Tablet PCs, has signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Miljobil Grenland AS of Norway to market its Maya 100 electric vehicle and to promote the business of zero-emission electric vehicle technologies in Norway and neighboring countries.
The Maya 100 ran in the 2004 Tour de Sol and won awards for Best Battery Electric Vehicle and the Technology Award. (A video of the Maya 100 in the 2004 event is available here.)

The Maya 100 uses a 40 kWh, 144V Electrovaya lithium ion superpolymer battery system that delivers a driving range of up to 230 miles (360 km) with a top speed of 80 mph (140 km/h). The batteries in the Maya are 100 Amp-hour modules purpose-built for electric vehicles only, and are designed to offer a 7-year calendar life with a cycle-life equivalent to 150,000 kilometers (93,225 miles) of operation.


http://bioage.typepad.com/greencarcongress/docs/Electrovaya%20EVS21%20Paper.pdf


Electrovaya has developed a long-range, zero-emission electric vehicle based upon its proprietary Lithium-Ion SuperPolymer® battery technology, some unique system design and a proprietary high efficiency motor. This paper describes Electrovaya’s 250-350 km range, compact 5-passenger SUV. Design targets include adequate acceleration, vehicle curb weight to be within 1% of the original body shell/glider for the internal combustion engine vehicle and with unchanged weight distribution across the axles. Several interesting approaches to ensuring ultra-safe and high reliability operation are also discussed. A new high efficiency motor design is also outlined which operates at 90-95% efficiencies. With Electrovaya’s battery, controls, system and motor technology, a low cost ZEV with comparable performance to a similar sized ICE is possible and is complemented by a 300+ km driving range between charges. The potential markets and applications, primarily in the area of fleet vehicles, are outlined.
Paper to be delivered at EVS21 in Monaco, April 2005

[lectrobyte]

38. Seems like a plug in hybrid is the next step, maybe the all electic

was just too far ahead of its time. After all, Toyota and Honda have gone to great lengths to point out the lack of need for plugging in the current generation of hybrids since they were afraid that consumers would reject them otherwise. As for who'd buy a "short trip" car, I think the answer has to depend on the price of gasoline.

[upi402]

43. There was a huge waiting list for electric cars

they crushed perfectly good ones.

I smell bullshit sprinkled with light sweet crude oil.