Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

A Moment of Pause - By William Rivers Pitt

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:27 PM
Original message
A Moment of Pause - By William Rivers Pitt
A Moment of Pause
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Friday 30 June 2006

A rolling sense of awe has enveloped the mainstream news media since yesterday's Supreme Court decision on Guantanamo. The specifics of the decision are part of the discussion, to be sure, but the sense of amazement has a more basic root. After all this time, after a seemingly endless series of over-reaching power grabs by the Bush administration, someone with a big enough stick finally got in the way and said, "No."

"In rejecting Bush's military tribunals for terrorism suspects," reads the analysis in Friday's Washington Post, "the high court ruled that even a wartime commander in chief must govern within constitutional confines significantly tighter than this president has believed appropriate."

In short, the fellow in the Oval is beholden to the law, and to the Constitution. Not so very many years ago, that simple statement was held as axiomatic. A president's powers are broad and deep on the best of days, but for a very long time the legal boundaries held. Presidents who tested those boundaries - Lincoln and FDR leap to mind - had the new lines of demarcation they established erased and redrawn by Congress or the courts before too much time went by. In the case of Nixon, an attempt to broaden the powers of the Executive in defiance of law led to the annihilation of the entire administration.

It is a fascinating event - the prison at Guantanamo becoming the this-far-no-farther moment for the Bush administration - considering what else has transpired. A covert CIA agent was exposed, intelligence analysts were intimidated into delivering politically acceptable data, hundreds of laws were summarily ignored by way of "signing statements," the FISA courts were bypassed during surveillance of American citizens, activist groups with no terrorism ties were intimidated, and the invasion and occupation of a foreign country was undertaken under brazenly false premises. A lot of people have died, and a staggering amount of taxpayer money has been redirected into the coffers of companies with deep ties to the White House.

more at:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/063006A.shtml
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Prepare for incoming. Meaning: * & Co. won't take this lying down
I've wondered if this wasn't the impetus for the Harriet Myers nominee.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. But Alito voted the "right" way for *.
I'm really glad I got involved with trying to stop him going to the Supreme Court, even if it failed. Every time that guy makes the wrong decisions, staying close with Scalia and Thomas, it further confirms that we were right to fight this, even though we had too many weak kneed Dems in the Senate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Yup.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. My favorite lines:
When all of it is boiled down, the invasion of Iraq and the "War on Terror" in general haven't really had much at all to do with defeating Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein, and have had even less to do with protecting the nation. It wasn't about certain people getting paid, or about defending Israel, or even about establishing a permanent presence in the Mideast. Not entirely, anyway.

So much of this, in the end, has been about Dick Cheney being annoyed by Watergate.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/063006A.shtml
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
checks-n-balances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Not just Cheney/Watergate, but GWB/IraqWarI and Neocons/Cold War
They always tell us to "Get over it" and it's time they took their own advice or they're going to literally take down the whole world. In the end I don't think it will be worth it even to them. Shortsighted SOB scumbags!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. aint that the truth
well DICK America is annoyed with you - if this was the wild west these F*ckers would have been slapped down a long time ago by real men albeit sometimes lawless men. DICK is able to do what he does under this guise called society/civilization other times in history he wouldn't be so fortunate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. The Supreme Court Broke America in 2000
So by the GOP's own reasoning "They Should Be The Ones To Fix It!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. From TO more
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 12:37 PM by wakeme2008
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Starfury Donating Member (615 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Sorry, I think you're way off target here....
What do you think Pitt got wrong? Or is your post simply a holdover from a separate topic?

BTW, K&R!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. People who do hit and run posts like this, slandering others, are part of
the corrupt and sadistic culture that has seized our government. It has been known as scapegoating, witch-hunting, McCarthysim, mob rule, pogroms, bullying, bigotry, ridicule, marginalization, "divide and conquer," bloody crusades, bloody jihad, gay bashing, liberal bashing, brown immigrants bashing, woman bashing, and a lot of other ugly phenomena. It is no different from what Rush Limbaugh and Michael Reagan do. It regrettably all too common here at DU.

Go away, wakeme2008! Take your handle seriously, and go put yourself to sleep somewhere for a while, and let the adults discuss things.

:thumbsdown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. THANK YOU.
This has become all too commom here; I don't care if I get in trouble for saying it. Some people need to wake up & pay attention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. TO same same Madsen, Drudge .. no serious writers there...
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Bullshit. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Well certainly no serious attention being paid by you anyway.
You seem to lack some basic skills yourself..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but I believe that you are
wrong. Will Pitt is an outstanding writer and has been for years. Take a look at some of the fantastic stuff in the archives. The man is brilliant in the way he turns a phrase.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
titoresque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Good grief!
Stop being so petty, you're going to miss too much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. Spoken like a true head-in-the-sander
This viewpoint states that no matter the truth of what is said, it must be discarded because the particular poster doesn't like the writer who wrote it.

How sad. This nation is suffering through a war because of people who couldn 't and wouldn't listen to the truth. How sad to find on DU another person who finds the people involved more important than the truths revealed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. That's nice and all, definetly a moment of victory.
However it is but a fleeting moment, as Bushco's minions in Congress are now working diligently to undo what the Supreme Court has wrought. Before too long it will be business as usual at Gitmo, and it will all be tied up nice and pretty in a bow of legal boilerplate, giving the official OkieDokie so that pesky Supreme Court won't bitchslap Bushco again.

Check out this thread for all the gory details<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1540140>

This is but a minor setback in Bushco's march towards total power. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kick and off to the Greatest for you
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. True. (nt)
Edited on Fri Jun-30-06 01:22 PM by w4rma
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. It's an important moment but hardly the breaking point.
Let's not go overboard and say that this is the moment where the country said "stop." (By the way, you may be unknowingly stealing from William F. Buckley's first editorial from National Review with that opening sentence).

This is hardly the Admininstration's first defeat at the hands of the courts. In fact, it's not the first defeat on this particular area.

It's a setback and an important first step in figuring out a Constitutional way of dealing with the Guantanemo detainees. But it's my favorite type of court decision, the "try again" decision. There were literally dozens of these that sprung from Brown vs. Board of Ed.

The bigger issue, I think, is that the Administration has basically been told that they are allowed to keep these detainees indefinitely while they sort this out. I would not be surprised at all if the processing of the Guantanemo Bay prisoners does not take place until after January 2009 at this point.

Still, it's important in a historical sense, I think. And there is no way that this would have happened to Bush if Karl Rove was out of prison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. When are they going to free the illegally held prisoners?
Some have been there for four years now--with no charges against them, no trial, no contact with the outside world. Many have suffered horribly--have been tortured, have gone mad, have been killed. Prisoners who have gotten out, because their countries negotiated their release, have established that many prisoners are completely innocent of any crime, and even if they were guilty of something, their treatment has been illegal and heinous.

The Supreme Court, which failed to insure that their PREVIOUS ruling was enforced--they ruled that the prisoners must have real trials and then let the Bush junta get away with military tribunals all this time--has also left themselves a cowardly out. They basically said that Congress can re-write the law to ALLOW tribunals. Thanks a lot. They're leaving it up to the Diebold Congress whose chief concern--besides looting us blind--is that we might burn a flag.

If the SC was sincere, they would have ordered the release of the prisoners, or ordered the lower court to do so. There has not been such a disgrace of the US justice system since the internment of Japanese-Americans, and the slaughter of the Indians--and the lynchings of black citizens in the South. And now we know there are OTHER prisoners and prisons--anonymous prisoners whisked off on black flights to torture dungeons God knows where. It is absolutely horrible what these Bushites have done, and it must be STOPPED NOW.

But I don't think that's what the SC intends. I think they're making believe that we have a "balance of powers" and still have a democracy--liberal candy for the '06 elections. It's all a charade. I wish I could be more optimistic. Experience tells me not to be. I'm certainly GLAD they've ruled this way--mainly for the sake of the honorable people in the military who have been fighting against these illegal orders. There are many brave people in our military who believe in the Constitution and the rule of law. But I don't think it will materially affect the prisoners--who have been the victims of very great injustice. And I don't think it will change the horribly corrupt and sadistic culture of the Bush junta.

Another thing that bothers me is that we have no idea who they are "detaining" and torturing, or why. Personally, I greatly doubt if their purpose is to keep America safe. And I think that this junta is perfectly capable of imprisoning witnesses to their other crimes, potential whistleblowers, business opponents, and anyone who interferes with their many nefarious purposes, whom they can get their hands on with impunity. We have no reason whatsoever to trust them. And the same with spying. They no doubt now have blackmail material on potential political opponents here at home, and abroad. That may explain some of the cowardice we see in Congress, and throughout our political system. I don't sense that the Bush junta has any boundaries at all. They are capable of anything. That is the danger of powers like these--indefinite detention and torture--and that is why they seek such powers. They are illegitimate office holders, thieves and brigands. Those who hold legitimate power do not NEED to torture people.

Some people might feel like it's okay to bend the rules on detention and torture in the case of a real threat--the "24 Hours" scenario (a US city threatened by real people with a real nuke). My position on that is that, if the President or anyone else, decides that torture is necessary in some dire circumstance, they should take the legal consequences--confess what they did, explain why they did it, and subject themselves to judgment by the courts or the people. But we should never, never, NEVER make torture legal, or suspend habeas corpus. Never! People died for these principles--recently, and over many centuries. They must remain absolute. To do otherwise is to lead us right down the road to Nazi Germany and the death camps. A dire circumstance COULD come up, in which an honorable person might feel compelled to break those laws for the greater good. I agree that it COULD happen.* I think the honorable thing to do is to then open it up, and be honest about it, and take the consequences. If so much is at stake, why shouldn't the lawbreaker take the consequences--except out of cowardice? More than likely, if it WAS a real dire emergency, the lawbreaker would be forgiven. My point is to RESPECT THE LAW--so as not to create a culture of lawlessness, which is exactly what the Bush junta has taken the opportunity (9/11) to do. What I am proposing is the mode of Gandhi and Martin Luther King. You break the law, and then you stand there and get beaten for it, or go to jail. If what you are doing is JUST, you will eventually win on moral grounds. Society decides. Lawful government decides. Not YOU. Because you are not an emperor. And that is something that this stupid little man in the White House, and his protective junta, have been very, very mistaken about.

-----

*(It could happen through no fault of ours. But more likely, it would happen as the result of people made desperate and driven insane by our policies. So one good way to PREVENT ever having to make that decision--that torture was necessary to protect peoples' lives, for real--is to aim our policy toward justice and peace. The more injustice you inflict on the world, the more likely it is someone will seek revenge. Help give people a dignified life and self-determination, and respect and hope, and they won't likely want to nuke one of your cities. This was the theory of the Marshall Plan after WW II. )

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. THis would be nice
to effect the bush maladjusted regime..

"In the case of Nixon, an attempt to broaden the powers of the Executive in defiance of law led to the annihilation of the entire administration."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
21. And don't forget the huge GOP Tex victory..
.. regarding redistricting. SCOTUS pretty much rubberstamped DeLay's
ridiculous, unnecessary and extreme gerrymandering to help the GOP
in Texas elections.

Sue
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
23. Great Post & Even Greater to See Will Pitt Again!
:kick: and thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
26. quibbling
"...and the invasion and occupation of a foreign country...".

that would be the invasion and occupation of 2 countries, afghanistan AND iraq.

the invasion and occupation of afghanistan prior to a full investigation of 9/11 (which still has not occurred) was the beginning of the "war on terror".

we'll see where this ruling leads and what attempts bush makes in his ongoing circumventing of democracy, but the pause IS palpable.

thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC