Planning for the worst; What if the 2006 & 2008 elections are lost?

[godhatesrepublicans]

I have a serious question for those who read this message board. Let’s say that the Democrats fail to take back the House & Senate in ’06. Let’s say that the Republicans manage to take the White house by hook or by crook in ’08. What then, all joking aside?

I think we’re all agreed that this would mean that people who believe in working for the common good would be officially in the minority, and politically powerless in America. Those with the money would be able to say that they own the rest of us, that capital makes some people better than others. The two-tiered justice system would diverge even further. We all know what these people are up to.

Big business would have labor by the throat and would begin to shake it like a terrier killing a rat. The environment we all share would continue to be sacrificed for private profit.

In short, the world would be as it is now, but only more so. And the further we go down that road as a nation, the less likely it becomes that we’ll find our way back.

So what do we do? Seriously. I’m looking for ideas.

Armed revolt is out of the question. A peasant uprising against the evil nobility worked in the French Revolution, but the King Louis the 14th’s army didn’t have nerve gas in its armory. King George the Third couldn’t call in an air strike against Washington’s rag tag Colonial forces.

Do liberal democrats resort to civil disobedience, in the nature of Gandhi or Martin Luther King? That would require an energized populace that cares about their own best interests. We can’t even get women in “Red States” to go to the polls to protect their own reproductive rights.

Is it my responsibility to be beaten half to death by brutal thugs in uniform in a protest march defending the rights of people who DON’T GIVE A DAMN?

I’m a devoted Christian and a patriotic American, but I have no desire to be a martyr for an indifferent people.

So I’m curious what you all think. I have a few ideas of my own that I’m organizing some people behind, but I’m interested in getting some fresh perspectives.

Thanks much.
B.H. Davis, webmaster
www.godhatesrepublicans.org
www.wetoldyouso.org

[helderheid]

1. I wish I had an answer.

[MissWaverly]

2. Not going to happen

The Crooks having gorged themselves on our treasury are not going to wish to be left with the clean up, they will leave their dirty messes as they extricate their bloated belly away from
the feed trough (or should I say banquet table).

[AlinPA]

3. I am reading "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis. We could easily

go down that road with another Republican in the White House. In that novel, people were fooled into thinking that things would be better. It turned into a totalitarian "government" with elimination of congress and the courts. Religion was behind the whole thing + a promise that everyone would live better. It Can Happen Here.

[rucky]

40. Freaky. when was it written? n/t

[tenshi816]

43. 1935.

Scary, isn't it?

[tenshi816]

42. It was greed, not religion, that got him elected.

Remember, when he was running for President, Buzz Waldrip promised $5,000 to every American if he was elected (without having any idea where the money for such an undertaking was going to come from). Many people rushed to their banks and borrowed that amount even before the election because they thought they'd be able to pay it back quickly after receiving the money they were promised by their new President, and others talked of nothing but what they were going to do with their windfall.

[AlinPA]

48. True. I'm corrected. Thanks.

[Benhurst]

4. Minor correction:

You meant Louis XVI, not Louis XIV.

[godhatesrepublicans]

6. Ah, the American school system strikes again...

;-)

[stellanoir]

5. I tend to lean towards deluded optimism but

after reading Palast's and Crispin Miller's assessment of the remote unlikelihood of a Dem victory, I can't help but feel without decent honest reform and amelioration of our voting systems, which are clearly not happening, the progressive momvement is toast.

A deeper part of me feels transformation will come through non linear or non conventional means. Not sure as how it will do so as yet.

But I spend a good part of each and every day praying for it.

Hope you do too.

[leftchick]

8. non conventional means a revolution

I believe that is what it will take. I also believe conditions in the US will have to deteriorate a lot more before that ever happens. I am thinking years.

That is why I am shopping for property in another country this summer. The USA is Toast!

[AndyTiedye]

25. They Will Push Until People Rebel, Then Utterly Crush the Rebellion

and use that as the excuse to openly go to full christofascism.

[rubberducky]

7. He`s not going to leave.

He said something in thatpress conference(the one where he insulted the man with sunglasses). Something about his policies will not change after the next election. Wish I could find a transcript of that press conf. Something about that remark really bothers me. It gave me the feeling that we ain`t seen nothing yet. Whatever the exact remark was, sent chills up my spine.

[Bobbieo]

28. When Fascism comes to America,

it will be wapped in a flag and carryng a cross - Sinclair Lewis

[H2O Man]

9. Plan for the worst?

I prefer to work for the best.

[AndyTiedye]

29. Need to Do Both

I contribute to http://www.voteraction.org, the ACLU, anyone working for impeachment,
scolarships so that poor kids don't have to go in the Army to get a college education, etc.
(I won't give the DCCC a dime until they commit to support the winner in the CT primary though)

I have been in the streets protesting election fraud, sometimes with as few as one other person.

The person-to-person stuff of going out and persuading people to vote our way needs to be done
by people who have some talent for it. I don't. I have never succeeded in persuading anyone.

However much we do, we must be aware that the odds are very much against us.
Bush**'s low approval ratings seem like good news at first, until one realizes that our
candidates poll abysmally against the Republicans no matter how unpopular the Republicans
become. Look how horribly ALL of our Presidential contenders are polling! The media has
really done a job on us, so much so that we are not looked upon as alternatives no matter
how badly the Republicans mess up. If that were not enough, the voting systems in Ohio,
Florida, Georgia and several other states are totally own3d.

Even here in California, we are in serious trouble. Angelides is down 7 points and sinking fast,
despite the Groper's dismal approval ratings. A bitter primary race has rendered him virtually
unelectable, but we must still do all we can to keep it from turning into a blowout, since that
would likely cost us House seats as well as other statewide races. We must also try to shore up
our support in those other races to limit any coattail effect of a Groper victory.

And yes, the more we do to work for the best, the worse it will be for us if the worst comes,
so we'd better plan for it.

[rwenos]

10. There's Always British Columbia

I can't see actually leaving, but it would seem so hopeless if that were to happen. I live in California, where the God Squad is not yet completely in control. I guess we can focus on local politics in Cali, where most of the Vast RW agenda is NOT going to be enacted into law, and then travel to the rest of Fascist Amerika only when necessary, with our women wearing burkhas.

And then there's always Vancouver, BC, which is a lovely city in a magnificent province, and a growing economy. Skiing across Burrard Inlet at Grouse Mountain, about 100 klicks north to Whistler . . . good universities and Simon Fraser University even plays American football. Stanley Park, Robson Street, the Gaslight District . . .

Hmmmmmmm.

[lutefisk]

38. 2 year immigration process and California+ housing prices

Maybe an option if one is cashing out of the California real estate market and has some marketable job skills.

[mnhtnbb]

11. Our plan for the worst means a move to Panama where we are building

a house. We decided after the 2004 election that we needed a plan that included the option to get out of the country. In 2005 we bought a lot and the house is now under construction.

But...we're retirement age anyway. My husband is 63 and I'm 55. We've been fighting the good fight since the VietNam war days and aren't looking forward to spending our golden years in a theocratic, fascist state. We'd rather retire to a beautiful, remote, island to live out our days.

We were just talking after dinner tonight about our good fortune to have been born where we were, when we were. But we think the good times are coming to an end. We think there are great similarities to Germany in the 1930's and that those who have the option--and could be the targets of a repressive society-- should be making plans to go somewhere else.

[whistle]

12. These questions were posed during 2000, 2002 and again in 2004....

...democrats are still in there in opposition to the Rat party (from "rat fuckers" during the Nixon campaign) and I hope and pray that democrats will continue to fight these Neo-Nazi bastards until they are beaten and power is again restored to the people who elect these candidates into office. We have not lost unless we give up!:kick:

[autorank]

13. Around the world people spend lifetimes in resistance to fascism and

they pass the duty along to their children. Get hip to the new reality, we're living under an
aggressive, stunningly acquisitive, amoral tyranny. You can't mark starting or stopping the fight
on the basis of election which have been shown to be riddled with deception and in many cases
outright fraud.

You link "losing 2006 and 2008" with "an indifferent people." You are obviously not aware that the
people who rule:

indifferently continue to pollute when the survival of the species is at risk;
invaded a nation for no reason but based on a pack of lies;
terrorize New York City with fake terror alerts;
execute people as fast as possible;
withhold vital vaccines and medicines because lunatics think the use of the medicines might promote
more sex; and

STEAL PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS, TWO IN A ROW.

Given that, how on earth could you judge the will of the people by these fake elections?

Get educated and realize that there is nowhere you can go to hide, here or overseas. You have two
choices - work to change this system of tyranny and indifference or comply by not resisting.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Remember, they are fearful little men.

They are trying to control the uncontrollable because of their fear of the people. Not just the people of America, who are, for the most part, apathetic and powerless, but of the rest of the world.

“There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible.
But in the end they always fall. Think of it. Always." Mahatma Gandhi

[mnhtnbb]

15. The tyrants may fail, eventually, but they can make life pretty damn

miserable until they fold. Just ask the families of the 6 million Jews from the Holocaust. And if you don't think it can happen here, I suggest you go back and read some history.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Well, I certainly won't argue that point.

But, I will point out, as I'm sure you're well aware, that Hitler came to power with acquiescence of the German people.

If Bush and his little cabal of midgets take power (or, retain power), it will be under the same circumstances.

[mnhtnbb]

19. Hitler also came to power with the same combination of

corporate power and right wing religions that you see joining forces in the U.S. today.

[AndyTiedye]

30. That Tyrant Only Failed Because The Rest of The World Ganged Up On Him

[blues90]

17. The answer to your question

We would have just what we see happinging right now and see it progress until we are all as you said , working slaves for the big brother , much as many are experiencing right as i type this .

All I can see is as many of us as possible will have to revolt and take out chances with this , we could win or die trying , rather than become submissive and give onto their order I would sooner die trying , i refuse to give in and suffer more of this horrid time warp of empty feeling and hopeless wonder .

[sarge43]

18. If it comes to that, two choices

1. We can become peasants and serfs, if we're lucky; dying in alleys and hovels if not. Our country will be a third world hell hole.

or

2. In Tommy Jeff's words, we can water the tree of liberty with our blood.

By the way, not everyone who wears an uniform is a mindless thug. And it's always been a small number of people who have gone to wall for the majority.

What chaps my hindquarters is we keep on reinventing this wheel every couple of centuries.

[AndyTiedye]

24. It's Not Only the Ones In Uniform You Have to Worry About

It's the Talibornagains.

Every time the Rethugs get into trouble politically, they respond by
doing something to please their Talibornagain base. Why? Usually it
is something that makes their popularity with the general population
go even lower. They don't care what anybody thinks execept the Fundies.

That is because they expect the Talibornagains to keep them in power
no matter how unpopular they become with everybody else.

Of course there are a lot of them in the military too. The Air Force
has been almost entirely taken over. They got the nukes.
:nuke::nuke:

[enid602]

20. perhaps

I think there´s a possibility that we´ll continue down the same path, but this Republican administration´s governance style is not a good one, and it will eventually catch up with them in terms of deficits, stagflation, underemployment and growing poverty. Not to mention the growing effects of their foreign policy. I don´t think the government will change until people are more aware of how harmful this governance is. What is the damage, already? A hundred billion a year wasted in Iraq? An aditional 60 billion yearly deficit created by the estate tax compromise? Lord only knows how many tens of billions each year to the wealthiest 1/2% in terms of tax reductions, or the billions that go annually to Big Pharma, thanks to the Medicare Bill. I don´t even know if there are any Republicans in power who still naively believe that these policies will actually do some good; maybe they all just want to make as much money while they can, and then let the opposition party fight over the carcass once the experiment has irreversibly failed.

[Skip Intro]

21. I think things would move to the state level, with eventual successions

from the union.

Maybe Jesusland?

[INdemo]

22. China may just annex the United States because of the extreme debt

owed and appoint a national leader...

[Totallybushed]

46. that would notbe an

improvement.

[BeFree]

23. If we fail

Then we will receive that about which you have written.

But step back for a moment to the two stolen elections. Without those thefts we live in a different world today, with Gore as our president.

If you do not think the elections were stolen, then we really are not even on the same page. If you do believe in the thefts then you know we are living in what amounts to an alternate reality and that reality will continue - pretty much as you have written - and only to get worse.

Power is conveyed upon the leaders through the vote. Since we feel the vote was stolen, the leaders are in a position of stolen leadership. Indeed, they act as if they are illegitimate in many ways. And they will not stop, unless we stop them.

It is incumbent upon us to KNOW that the leaders did not gain leadership through theft. So it it is incumbent upon us to do everything in our power to make sure the coming elections are not stolen. That is our solution.

After all, do you really think a majority of the American people like this leadership and the future we are being led into? The only way they can stay in power is through theft of the elections, again.

[Democrats_win]

26. What if it really IS God's will?

I know, but please hear me out. It's not what Bush or you might think.

Bush and religion go hand in hand. We pretty well know that religion isn't as good as they claim to be. In fact many here will tell you they are rather evil.

My prediction: Bush and his religious cronies will make America hate them so much that just about everyone will demand that religion pay taxes which WILL destroy most of these religions. We are not there yet but Bush is clearly taking us there. The wrongful religious based attacks by conservatives has even spread to Mexico as the dirty election there proves.

My proof? It's in the Bible which uses this symbol: religion as a harlot riding on the back of a beast which represents government. For the past few centuries, religion has gotten a free ride from governments. Then, according to the story, the beast turns on the harlot. We don't know how government will turn on churches but contrary to what the Fundies claim that is not happening now. Taxation for faith based programs shows the government still supports false religion; ride that tiger! However with Bush's presidency, my scenario of taxing and destroying religion might be how the harlot of false religion is destroyed--all according to God's plan!!!

So you see, Bush is part of God's plan, just not the way he and his followers expect.

[readmoreoften]

27. We need a national resistance cable television network..

I don't even the problem with civil disobedience is that people are apathetic. Look, we're getting more people at rallies than during Vietnam. We just aren't getting press coverage. They could take 100,000 of us to jail and throw away the key and the news would report that "hundreds of people were arrested".

We need a television network. It can start as something else to get its foot in the door. An arts and cultural network. Subdued, like PBS used to be. Then turn it into National Resistance Television. Once it is a known station, it will be impossible to force off the air.

Like CNN only news. Let Soros fund it. Someone.

[godhatesrepublicans]

31. Why wait for Soros? Democracy Now! is a viable template.

http://democracynow.org/ for more on them.

Heck, the Black Israelites ( http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b58.html )get more air time in my TV market than progressive democrats thanks to Public Access TV. With pod casting and Bit Torrent, anybody with a $1000 to spend has an outlet.

I'm trying to get a few media producers working together on a project that'll at least be a start in the right direction without waiting for a billionaire to do the right thing, or for one of my lottery tickets to finally pay off.

[readmoreoften]

34. When you're right, you're right.

Isn't that what cable tv is about? Choice. I thought in this great capitalist democracy of ours we get to "choose" what we want to watch. So why am I stuck with CNN? Democracy Now is a good choice. I'm thinking maybe something even less intellectual, less debate driven, or discussion driven and pure news presentation so that even slow people can understand what is going on. I think podcasting is good, but having a television network will get us to the Fox News and CNN watchers. The message needs to slap people in the face, we can't rely on them searching out the information themselves.

ex.

Here is what we know about voter fraud: Here is the data sheet. Here is so and so to explain the data sheet. Given this information, the United States is no longer a democracy. We need to rise up in the streets.

Have "average" looking folks on the show discussing what they think and feel and what they are prepared to do. What they think the problems are. I love Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn, but I bet people are more likely to listen to their neighbors.

[godhatesrepublicans]

35. THANK YOU for recognizing that we're usually talking over the heads of

... the people we need to reach. My whole web site and street preaching ministry is geared towards reaching the people the Right Wing keeps lying to over and over again.

If someone would just take Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn and "translate it" for the Joe and Mary Sixpacks of Red State USA, we'd make a difference. Or redo MOTHER JONES as a weekly tabloid to sit right next to STAR MAGAZINE and THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER at the grocery checkout lines.

Instead liberals come off like the Russ Lieber character on THE COLBERT REPORT; babbling intellectuals without balls enough to take a position.

[readmoreoften]

37. I don't think there's anything wrong with the babbling intellectual...

We just need "code switchers" people who can run information back and forth between the experts and the lay people. I need science explained to me as if I was in 8th grade. Most people need politics explained to them like they're in 8th grade. It's all about what you pay attention to.

I take my partner's parents as perfect examples. They vote Democrat (if they vote). They live in the South. They self-identify as Walmart shoppers. They think of themselves as "down home people." They don't agree with the Iraq war, but don't mind the War in Afghanistan. They are pro-choice because they have 2 daughters, but they don't talk about it.

But my girlfriend bought her dad Zinn's "A People's History" and he loved it! Tore through it. Now it sits right next to the William F. Buckley book that's up there because someone gave it to them and someone thought it looked distinguished. But even though he loved the book, he'd never sit through a long-winded analysis filled with political rhetoric. It'd make him feel "dumb". People don't like to feel dumb. And they aren't dumb! They just don't know yet! Even the ones who are slower can catch on. It just takes longer.

If someone on TELEVISION proved to them that the vote was rigged, my girlfriend's parents would be spitting mad. They'd tell all their friends. But they won't read it on a blog and they won't hear it on a podcast. They'll here it on TV. That's it.

[Wapsie B]

32. Without having a true opposition party

in this country I don't know if it matters. If we're not going to take away control of elections from companies like Diebold and ES&S close elections could fall the gop's way. Without taking control of the House in November talk of impeachment is nothing more than a wishful dream. With the selections of the chimp the gop shot the moon. They demonstrated that they can put the most unqualified person in recent history in the WH. It's all downhill after this. All they have to do is placate and appease the God Squad in '08, keep the Warhawks (Chickenhawks) happy with more senseless bloodshed somewhere in the world and they can put in the WH anyone they choose. They can dig up Ronnie and sit him in dry ice in the Oval Office and it would be no worse than what we have now.


edit: What I would like to see is a Democrat that makes the bankers and moneychangers in this country break out in a cold sweat in the middle of the night. Fat chance of that happening.

[AtomicKitten]

33. Elections won't be lost, they will be stolen.

I have not doubt the Democrats will prevail at the ballot box but, as always, it is he that counts the votes that wins.

[fat dad]

36. Can't win for losing

I'm almost as afraid of winning as I am of losing. At least when it comes to the White House in 2008. This housing boom can't last much longer, the youngest of baby boomers started turning 60 this year, and we're so deep in debt that when/if the crash comes it's gonna be nasty one. A Dem Prez in 2008 won't just get Carter-ized, he'll be crucified by the corporate media, with Democrat's taking all the blame for the mess now coming to a head the past 26 years of right wing economic policies have left us in.

Although, taking back the House and Senate and mass mailing Republican indictments would be enough to make even bread lines and soup kitchens tolerable.

[Stardust]

44. I dread a good guy winning because we KNOW the gauntlet

the Repugs would throw down. There's not a person alive that could be impervious to their evil tricks and schemes. Democratic Congress, Powerless Repug Prez. Then we can start to really make a difference. But I'm also eager to join the real revolution. I'm ripe with rage and perfectly willing to risk my life for the cause while realizing that it's all pretty futile. We've seen the consequences of totalitarian rule. Only the monied have true power. Eventually they will own all the housing, derelict and opulent...They own the government, the military, the legislature, the Supreme Court, the media, our healthcare system;ad infinitum. We Dems aren't ineffective or irrelevant, were just out-evilled.We desperately need a leader who isn't afraid of upsetting certain portions of his base. I honestly believe that the progressives will fire up the voters more effectively with their outrage and passion than don't-make-wavers who inspire no action beyond casting a ballot.

\

[area51]

47. Welcome to DU, sofedupwithbush. (n/t)

[cry baby]

51. Welcome to DU, fat dad

A dem prez is better in any case, but we activists can help a little in putting the blame right where it belongs, in the repugs' lap.

It will be a difficult time for a dem prez, I hope we get a strong person for the job out of our primaries and nomination process.

[Raine]

39. They will steal the next elections too

I really don't doubt it. Our side will win with the votes but their side controls the machines. What we will do I don't know, I think we are doomed. :-(

[rucky]

41. I promise not to let the door hit me on the way out.

If the vote count isn't legit, we're in total fascism & I'm outta here.

If the vote count is legit, most Americans are OKAY with what we're doing, and I'm outta here. Fuck 'em.

[BreweryYardRat]

45. It's really quite simple.

Demand voter-verified paper ballots with no electronics in the entire voting process, including ballot counts.

Give out copies of RFK Jr's article on the 2004 election theft, so people know what to watch for.

Get hold of the UN and beg for election monitoring. A mass petition would probably go over well. Even if the government rejects it, it'll still be on record.

Do this and they can't steal 2008, and they'll have a hard time this year.

Remember-liberals are the majority, no matter what the RW wants you to think.

[Rosemary2205]

49. The R's WILL win in 06 and 08

they have the media, the voting machines and just enough fooled by the propaganda to get by with it. No child left behind has destroyed education to a point that the youngest voters as a whole aren't taught the critical thinking skills needed to question authority and revolt to the same degree as was done in generations past.

IMHO it will be up to the middle agers - and they are likely to only revolt if things fall to a certain level economically. --- In My extremely humble opinion I think the "little people" of this country are screwed until it gets to the point where the middle class is all but destroyed.

And yes, I really hope I'm wrong.

[DemReadingDU]

53. Critical thinking skills are so important

So many people nowadays just don't know how to think for themselves. Why else are they still voting Republican? It's like they are in a cult and have been brainwashed.

[Drewskie]

50. ...

[ComerPerro]

52. they've been lost for a while now, sadly

[fordnut]

54. election

Democrats won`t take control this election Bush in an interview the other day he was SURE the repugs would stay in control,looks like the election is already rigged just like the last two when he said he was sure he would win.