Republican Christian moochers -- the newest welfare queens.

[The Backlash Cometh]

What a racket. Guess where the Republicans in need of money are going these days? Yep. The churches. And boy, do they take care of their own. I just happened to have a brush with the way things work. First, there are definitely people in this community who are in need of money, and make no mistake, Republicans are very capable of asking for hand-outs and taking them, even when you don't offer. This one guy, who very definitely needs help, no job & two kids, has one family who sends their kid to their school with an extra lunch to give to one of his kids. They know each other through church and, indeed, miss sports events because they're off on church retreats. A very nice arrangement, nothing wrong here, but it's how they relate to people outside their church circle that bothers me.

I happened to stumble onto this because my daughter became friends with one of the kids. Recently, I paid for one of the kid's tournament fees, which was no big deal, but, I was surprised to find out that the other parent expected me to do the same for him. I figure in their own minds, they see that my house is bigger so I'm in a better position to be more charitable.

Make no mistake, these are good, nice people, but they are far more needy than ever I have encountered. I have lived overseas and in neighborhoods where there was an abundance of blacks & hispanics and never, never, has any of them just expected their friends and neighbors to give them anything.

The kicker is this, through their churches, and through their contacts with staunch Republican branches of government, they have access to more public money than most. One of the Republican parents started talking about college scholarships and because I'm hispanic, they asked quite a few questions about which college my son went to and how the scholarship situation was. I looked at the lady in surprise and said, "Haven't you been reading the papers, there is NO money out there for education." The second moocher dad quickly turned his head away, almost ashamed to be eavesdropping on our conversation and I know why. He's retired Air Force and he's expecting to get a full scholarship for his kid, the way most Air Force parents do. A Republican who probably faulted every social program for the poor under the Democrats, and there he is sitting pretty with the biggest & most selective government social program hand-out agency: The Air Force.

I don't fault him for his good fortune, but damn, it sure does feel like Republicans don't like to pay taxes that will go to the poor in someone else's community, because there's less to go around for them in their own.

[acmejack]

1. TBC, I agree with the intent of your post

but I have to ask for clarification of this portion: "government social program hand-out agency: The Air Force" What do you mean here? I want to be sure I understand what you are saying.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. My dad was Army. :-)

But that aside, I live in a staunch Republican community and all the Air Force people I have met are Republican because of the pro-military position. On top of that, I know all of them because our kids go to the same high school and all of them are getting or trying to get full scholarships for their kids to go to college through Air Force commitments. There are different categories of scholarships, and I guess the Air Force guarantees the best.

Tell me, can you get full scholarships to college when a grunt enrolls in the Army?

So, yes, I have some noticeable resentment to Republicans who are also involved with the Air Force because they get the best of the best, and still harbor resentment to people who are less fortunate than they are.

[acmejack]

6. I guess I am somewhat confused.

I was an Air Force brat, but I served in the Navy. I knew about the Air Force Academy, I'm so old everythiung has changed anyway. I do agree with you about the people who are happy to milk the system for all it's worth and then want to shut it down to those who follow them.

I was curious why you had singled out the AF-so now I know.

[liberal N proud]

2. You hit the nail on the head - Republicans don't like to pay for

anything that will not directly benefit them. They never want to help the other guy but will be the first in line for hand outs for their own families.

[pecwae]

3. Let me add one to this:

Repub neighbor-typical-whining about welfae Queens, handouts, blah, blah, blah. Her daughter delivered a preemie last year and a hospital social worker told her about a state program that pays ALL of a preemies hospitalization if the preemie is less than 2 pounds at birth. Guess what? The daughter and husband, both very gainfully employed with insurance and going on an extensive overseas holiday this summer, took advantage of this program. The rationale was "at least someone who has been paying taxes is getting some of theirs back." Of course, the mindset is 'screw those who've never paid enough into the system.'

As long as they're gettin' theirs.....

[sandnsea]

4. It's them people... over there

Yes I have known some people who were going to be permanently "needy" and the Republican ones do seem to have an attitude that everybody just acts that way when they're on assistance or something. It's particularly funny when they turn around and vote Republican to keep people from abusing the system, when some of them are the biggest abusers out there. I knew one family who was on literally every program available, and any time their kids needed anything they always found some civic group to take care of it. Good Christian people, ya know. If we couldn't afford something, our kids went without. Of course, we didn't run around with a poor placard hung around our necks either.

[JNelson6563]

7. Yeah, they scream bloody murder

about social programs while feeding at the trough. The irony is always lost on them.

Julie

[Minnesota Libra]

8. What I have an issue with regarding anyone is.....

....EXPECTING the help. If people are in need, fine, I will do my best to help, although I'm on a fixed income myself. I absolutely despise anyone, of their party, expecting the help. I've encountered the same myself, not just with the Air Force, but many republicans from any walk of life. They have an attitude in every aspect of their life like "I'm entitled" and "you owe me, so pay up". I absolutely hate that and no I will no offer or give any help at all in those cases.

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. I really feel used when I help them.

Here are these white (Repub) Americans who denigrate my culture, and call hispanics lazy and no good for nothings, and yet there they are expecting me to give them assitance just because our kids play on the same teams. It's like white Americans can't relate to other Americans unless they live in the same zip code.

[Minnesota Libra]

10. Hey, please watch that with..........

....."white Americans" thing. Not all of us are like that. In fact I'm going to start another thread concerning an experience I had with a Latino cab driver the other day that left me with enormous respect for Latinos.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Correction made.

In my community, about 7 out of 10 people I meet & talk to enough to get to know are white Repubs. 1 of 10 may be Democratic, but they're also just as prejudice as the Repubs, and the other 2 are everything else.

[earth mom]

16. Why are you assuming the dems in your community are prejudiced?

Maybe it's the other way around.

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. Okay, here's the real live conversation:

"We'll, Backlash Cometh, to tell you the truth, we're from New Jersey and my daddy was a cop. He put us in private school because the blacks were just unruly and dangerous. He hated them and he would be what you call, a racist."

Come forward thirty years and now she has two sons and a daughter. The sons were always getting into trouble and the one way they got out of it was to become informants for the local police. Who did they elect to set up? Puerto Ricans.

The boys have gradually degraded from your normal confused kids to punk-dressed teenagers to now full-fledged confederate flag, monster-truck fixing in the driveway, NASCAR lovin' rednecks. Just to be sure I wasn't being prejudiced about the transformation, I asked the daughter, who I use to call my blonde child because she lived at my house and grew up here, I asked her, "You know how we are, you know we're hispanic. Do you go to your redneck friends after leaving here and trash hispanics?" She smiled and nodded yes.

Do you still think I'm the one who is prejudiced? I love the mom. She's probably the closest thing I have to a friend around here, but she has dated hardcore freeper types for the last four years and the kids have been indoctrinated to hate what they hate.

Despite all this prejudice, she considers herself a Democrat.

[earth mom]

19. I see your point. How sad that the mom allowed that to happen to her kids.

The mom herself was brought up to hate and she probably doesn't get how wrong it is. You being her friend may show her the light, but if it were me, I'd be wary of her or her kids ever changing. Just my opinion.

Good Luck!

[The Backlash Cometh]

20. She's an amazing lady.

I've never met anyone who was so strong. She herself is not prejudiced. She's just been around it all her life that it doesn't faze her, and she just isn't in a social bracket that gives her many options in partners.

By the way, the other 2 out of 10 that I talked about earlier include Democrats who are not prejudiced. Teachers, mostly.

[earth mom]

31. I get it now. Thought she had the same attitude. Maybe the kids

can change if she gets em away from the freepers!

[The Backlash Cometh]

34. That would be the key.

I'm afraid that she might be attracted to that kind of person because that's the kind of person her daddy was when she grew up.

[tblue37]

12. ?? When did retired Air Force people start getting

free college for their kids? My dad was retired Air Force, and I paid in full for my education--as did my siblings.

[Generic Other]

13. Me too

Wow. Didn't know there were scholarships available. Oh well. My dad wouldn't have let me apply for one anyway. He never took a handout in his life.

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. Just telling you what I overhear the Air Force parents saying on the

soccer fields. There are different categories of scholarships, not all involve full rides. But apparently, the Air Force offers the best. I don't know why, but the number "6" comes to mind. Anyone with recent (i.e. Bush era) information?

[TheFriedPiper]

15. Christians are the biggest moochers around

They get all the parking in town on Sunday and don't even have to pay taxes!

Before I get accused of picking on Christians, though, let me state that I believe ALL religions are bogus, not just Christianity.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. well, since you DID single us out as moochers

I would like to know what the fuck you are talking about? All the parking in town? No taxes? Hell, if Christians don't have to pay taxes the gov't owes me a shitload of money...

sP

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. Foul-mouthed Christian.

;-)

I think you know we're talking about Republican Christians. It's not just that Republicans are trying to stop social programs through government programs, but in their own communities, Republicans who are in need are getting gobs of help from people in their wealthy communities. I alone have donated over $100.00 of assistance in the last week to one guy I barely know. Do you think I'll get a chance to tell him that a near-Democrat is helping him? Hardly. They take willingly and are getting more assistance than they would through welfare because of their Republican connections. Very wealthy people in their community feel it their duty to be charitable to help those who they personally know. So, they take care of their own while other people's children in less wealthy church congregations or locations go without.\

You need a neutral organization to balance out the inequities. Churches and their congreations are too choosy to whom they donate to, their isn't an even spread of wealth. Expecting churches to take the place of government social programs will result in spotty assistance to those in need.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

32. that would be me...

for it is not what man puts into his mouth that defiles him but that which comes forth from the mouth that defiles :-)

I agree that the church is spotty in it's donations...sticking to causes and people that the church 'feels like' supporting. And while I don't think in the real world it would be possible to do away with government assistance programs, I do believe if the Church was what it was meant to be then government assistance of many types could be done away with...I guess I am just a utopianist at heart.

My only purpose in my 'foul-keyboarded' response was to indicate to the poster in this little bitty sub-thread that I have no idea what he/she is talking about. Taking all the parking spaces? Is there some quota that they are allowed? And what is this about Christians not paying taxes? I think I missed out on a big deal there...to whom should I place the call...

Ok...back to my sashimi...

sP

[The Backlash Cometh]

33. The churches do a better job in latin America when it comes to

putting guilt in the rich to help out the poor. That, and also, the famiies of upper class and lower class are so interwoven that family ties make the social class lines blur.

[iconoclastNYC]

17. Let's not use Republican slurs against the social safety net

"Welfare Queens" was coined to erode support for social spending for the underprivileged.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

21. I'm really not sure I'm understanding you. I'm not aware that the military

gives you money for college, unless you commit to years of service to them.

I got medical school paid for by the military, but I signed a contract, which I honored, where I owed seven years of active duty service, which did NOT include my schooling and internship/residency training, which were also spent on active duty.

ROTC are scholarships where the student has to pay back at least a year or more for each year of school paid for as an officer in that service.

The way you write it in your post is like the Air Force is just giving Air Force families money for their kids college because the parent is in the Air Force. Unless things have changed drastically, I'm not aware of anything like that, unless the kids have gotten the scholarship via ROTC in which case they owe service.

Your kids would be just as eligible to apply for that kind of ROTC scholarship were they so inclined. If they did not because they or you didn't want them to be part of the military, or because they weren't competitive in terms of meeting the requirements, that's fine, but it's not because it wasn't available to them.

I'm not at all sure I understand what you are getting at with the Air Force as a "social program" to fund wingnuts' college education. The services definitely get their pound of flesh from you (and sometimes the whole thing) in return for the schooling that they pay for.

On Edit: You probably shouldn't spread such "rumors" unless you have a link or something beyond what you think you heard people talking about on the soccer field. For all we know those parents could have been talking about their kids getting ROTC scholarships involving committed service, which your kids could also apply for, and perhaps you just misunderstood what you thought you were hearing.

[The Backlash Cometh]

27. You have a point, to a degree.

There is a military commitment made when you accept a scholarship from the military. It's not, technically, a social program, but it is public money. In the Air Force Academy, it's not just the full scholarship that they're after, but also the hope of making a lifetime career in order to get that $100,000 annual retirement pension. You might want to look that one up because that may be one of the incentives that may have come up since the Bush years.

I, personally, have a grudge against the Air Force because of their snob attitude. My dad was Army and they look down their noses to any of the other branches, particulary the Army. But I believe this snobbery is fostered because, through their own conversations I learned that the Air Force provides the best scholarships because their selection process caters to the best academic & athletic performers. I don't know why we're having trouble finding someone in the Air Force that can provide current information in that regard.

[Jax]

43. My Dad was Air Force

and the Army kids definitely looked down on us too when we lived in Germany. Cuts both ways.

I worked two jobs to pay for and finish college as did my older brothers and sisters.

I would be very interested in any links and current information you have about these so called 'Air force Scholarships'. News to me.

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. I think you might be surprised.

[Jax]

45. Today, probably not

not anymore.

[SensibleAmerican]

23. Why is this wrong?

I think the biggest mistake is to confuse Christian evangelists with business conservatives. They have become political bedfellows, but Christianity is based upon giving.

Now there are some churches in my area who say "Jesus didn't mean what he said" in regards to giving to the poor in the gospel. This is heresy. But by and large Christians do believe in giving.

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. Nothing wrong with Christians helping other Christians.

It's just how they go about taking away everybody else's safety nets because they don't want to help others through government assistance programs. And that's what they're in essence doing when they support Republican Grover Norquist influenced policies.

[kestrel91316]

24. Ahem. I have a bone to pick with you.

"He's retired Air Force and he's expecting to get a full scholarship for his kid, the way most Air Force parents do."

This sure is news to ME. My dad was career USAF. He PAID, OUT OF POCKET, for my ENTIRE 8 years of college education, except for a measly $500 alumni association (not USAF) scholarship during my freshman undergrad year. He never took home more than $24k, but we were TOO RICH for me to qualify for financial aid (and my near-4.0 GPA wasn't good enough for merit-based aid) until he had the good grace to DIE at the age of 47 while I was in veterinary school. Then I managed to get a couple of loans and a couple of grants so I could live hand to mouth until I graduated and started making slave wages in private practice.

"Government social program hand-out agency", my ass. The biggest thing they ever gave him was lung cancer from Agent Orange. And it saved them decades of retirement pay.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

25. Yeah, I called BS on this a couple posts above you. I spent the huge

majority of my adult life as an active duty military officer, and working and living among same. I've never heard of anything like what is described in the OP.

Every military family I've known has paid for their kids' schooling the same way as everyone else: through their own money, through loans, and through scholarships, military and otherwise, that everyone else is also eligible to apply for.

On reading subsequent posts on the thread, the OP cannot clearly state what programs they are talking about, leading me to believe they are misunderstanding what they THOUGHT they heard people talking about.

The most likely scenario, IMHO, is the USAF families' kids applying for scholarships through ROTC, which are indeed full ride MONEY wise, but they cost a LOT, in terms of years of service, and the OP misunderstanding conversations about this kind of scholarship, thinking instead of the USAF as some kind of Freemason society doling out money to help the brothers send their kids to Princeton. Not happening.

And furthermore: Anyone who meets the requirements can apply for ROTC scholarships, including the OP's kids.

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. Any way to find out how much that's changed since Bush came into

office? You don't think he sweeten the pot to attract more people into the military to fight his war?

[The Backlash Cometh]

29. Do you have any contacts with the Air Force?

Can you find out what has happened since Bush came into office? These Air Force parents certainly act like they found a gold vein.

[BlueAlert]

35. I'm active duty air force (enlisted)

The only thing I can think of that would give benefits to an Airman's children is the Montgomery GI Bill, which the Airman pays $1200 into (another $600 for more benifits is optional).

The child can only use the benefits IF the Airman either dies or is permanently disabled.

snip from www.gibill2.va.gov

This program provides financial aid for the education of a dependent or surviving son, daughter, or spouse of a veteran with a 100% permanent and total service-connected disability who dies from any cause, a service person missing in action, or a veteran who is permanently and totally disabled as the result of a service-connected disability. The disability must arise out of active service in the Armed Forces.

[The Backlash Cometh]

36. Thanks for the info.

I suspect what they're talking about are full scholarships to the Air Force Academy. I'm going to try to talk to someone who use to recruit for them to see if I can get more info.

[ComerPerro]

37. They want to pick and choose who they help

which is exactly why Churches should NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, receive federal funding as a charitable organization.

They seem to only give to Christians, and even then its people they approve of.

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. That seems to be the summary conclusion for this thread.

[lies and propaganda]

39. I think your a little off base with your AF comments

My parents were AF and I was AF, reason for that is cause you cant pay for school for your kids, duh.
They too have to join and the odds of you getting fucked out of your GI Bill are so damn likely.

[The Backlash Cometh]

40. It's top on my list to go hunt down the recruiter I know and ask

direct questions. It may take me a few weeks, but if I discover anything that sounds remotely different than what has been written on this thread, I will post it.

[lies and propaganda]

41. have fun with that.

The goddamn recruiter is the person I look back on with the most disgust. I was sold on the fantastic hspital job of Dietician, turns out I got to be a line cook, making low sodium bullshit.

And he forgot to mention the 'reporting statement' that you had to know instantly because otherwise your on some instructors shitlist for the next seven weeks.

I did not have fun, hahaha

[The Backlash Cometh]

42. wow. Why do I get the feeling I'm biting off more than I can chew?

:-(

[raysr]

46. This thread fits

right in here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1611558&mesg_id=1611558