At what age is RAPE acceptable????

[stop the bleeding]

9, 19, 29, 59, 89, 99, 109 - just asking - :shrug:


CAUSE I CAN'T F*CKING BELIEVE THAT AGE IS EVEN AN ISSUE :grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr::nuke::grr:


:argh::mad::argh::mad::argh::mad::argh::mad::argh::mad::argh::mad::argh::mad::argh:

on edit: this is because once again our "God Loving Librul Media" has decided to make an issue about her age - thus implying that there is a grey area of acceptableness - to all of the posters who chided me on this post and missed the obvious point - well then I am sorry for you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. I guess I'm getting pretty cynical.

It kind of reminds me of Nancy Grace.

Why are the white women getting kidnapped stories so important? Because they're juicier.

[ladjf]

2. Yes. And not to mention murder of an entire family in addition.

America is very sick.

[coalition_unwilling]

22. Rape is as American as apple pie. (eom)

[Behind the Aegis]

3. Did I miss something?

I am assuming this is about the incident in Iraq. Who is making age an issue? Because you are right, that age shouldn't be an issue! Rape is never acceptable...NEVER! If people are making age the issue, rip'em a new one!

[China_cat]

21. It's a lot like shooting game, you know.

A buck has to have so many points before it's legal and fish have to be so big before you don't have to throw them back and a brown female should at least be classified as a woman so that people will think 'oh, no big deal...it isn't like she was a kid or something'.

[BOSSHOG]

4. Those sending the message know the audience

Maybe, just maybe "conservatives" would give the accused a pass if they knew the victim was 20 or above. I believe "conservatives" don't give one fuck about the victim(s) regardless of age. I also don't believe they care about our kids dying in the desert. More die in car wrecks and besides the soldiers dying are all volunteers. I just love compassionate conservatism.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Conservatives don't care about the 15 year old getting raped...

either.

It's all revenge for 9-11.

[arcane1]

15. to a conservative, a 20-year old is 'asking for it'

and since they 'support' the troops, they'd excuse it because war is hell, there are not enough women on base, etc

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[coalition_unwilling]

24. Most "conservatives" (the current RW eveangelical kooks) hate

women and the idea of women's freedom. They cloak their misogyny behind high-falutin' ideas like "right to life" and "defense of marriage" but deep down these are but masks for their hatred of the women's rights movement of the 60's, when the germs of this current RW evangelical kook nexus were sown.

[MADem]

5. At what age is murder acceptable, or any crime of violence? NT

[uppityperson]

7. Military and Media lied to manipulate the situation.

THAT is one part of the problem. The other part is that societies such as ours tend to be more protective of children, more laws regarding treatment of them, and THIS IS WHY THEY LIED!

No, rape is never acceptable.

[lukasahero]

8. The fact is that we live in a world, both conservative and progressive,

where rape is less of a crime when it happens to a woman as opposed to a girl or a boy. As a woman, that does not make me feel very good but it is reality. Anyone who suggests otherwise is just lying.

It is complicated but it is also reality.

[fishwax]

18. I think that's true of other crimes as well

Imagine three gangs of violent adult men. The first gang beats and robs a 12-year-old outside a local mall. The second beats and robs a 35-yr-old businessman downtown. The third beats and robs an 80-year-old man who walks with a cane. All three crimes are despicable, but the first and last lend themselves to a sensationalism that would be exploited as aggravating circumstances in the court of public opinion as well as the court of law, becomes two of those victims are seen as more helpless.

What happened in iraq is heinous and despicable regardless of the age of one of the victims. The fact that the authorities (and the media) tried to spin the situation by presenting that victim as a "woman" rather than a 14-year-old girl is also despicable. Whether the icreased outrage they sought to avoid is justified or fair, it is, as you say, reality.

[sallyseven]

9. Rape is never acceptable. It is always wrong.

[Ian David]

14. It depends if it took place in the country or in a city. Deuteronomy

If a woman is raped in the country, then only the man shall die (since there was no one to hear her if she cried out.)

If a woman is raped in the city and doesn't cry out loud enough, the men of the city must stone her to death.

22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;

22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.


22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.

22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/dt/22.html#23

[patcox2]

25. You know, we do treat rape as sui generis, especially evil,

The Worst Thing Ever. Look at how enraged the original poster is about this. The girl was killed, too, but he/she is enraged because of the perception that somehow by negative implication some rapes are being in some way regarded as some tiny hair less than the ultimate evil, so what she was killed, how dare you suggest rape has degrees.

The old testament is just being cynical; that was a different age. If you were caught fornicating, the easy way out of a sentence of death was to cry rape (and facing the death penalty, the woman had a tremendous incentive to claim rape). So they just assumed that if you had the opportunity to summon help by yelling and didn't, it wasn't rape after all.

[dsc]

10. We make this distinction all the time

In most states with the death penalty murdering a child makes one eligable even if they otherwise wouldn't be. Often raping a child is sentenced more severely than raping an adult. Children are as a class less able to defend themselves and thus need more protection from society. It really is qualitatively worse to rape a 14 year old child than it is to rape a 25 year old woman. Both are crimes, both should lead to long terms of imprisonment, but the first one should be longer.

[truth2power]

39. dsc, I think your response is the most reasoned...

if people will just stop to consider.

There is something about PREYING upon a child that is odious beyond description. This is just my lamentable attempt to explain this, but here goes: I think it's something deep in our collective psyche that has to do with the survival of the species. If humankind had not possessed the uncomrpomising will to protect its young, we would not have survived. So killing or injuring a child engenders that primal instinct and we feel revulsion toward the act and the perpetrator.

As you said, children as a class are less able to defend themselves. Didn't Jesus say, "Inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these, you have done it unto me". And, "suffer the little children..."

Everything else you said, applies.

[porphyrian]

11. Rape isn't acceptable.

Age is only an issue with some people with regards to being able to give consent, and the law is clear on this despite that debate.

[rucky]

12. The fact that it's a child is more emotionally charged...

just like any crime done to a child.

It doesn't take anything away from crimes committed upon adults.

[LittleClarkie]

56. It appears the media called her a woman at first

obscuring her age, is that correct?

If so, then they knew it was emotionally charged as well, and acted to shield those responsible by trying to minimize the impact. If so, shame on them.

[TomClash]

13. It probably doesn't evne matter to the rapist nt

[Blue-Jay]

16. Did someone say that rape was ever acceptable?

Somehow I doubt it.

:shrug:

[uppityperson]

17. best response yet, thank you bluejay

who has said it is acceptable?

[Phillycat]

Exactly, no one ever said that. nt

[stop the bleeding]

27. Yeah the media

has decided to make an issue about her age - thus implying that there is a grey area of acceptableness

you don't have to outright say something to garner an effect, all you have to do is imply to get the effect that one is looking for. Happens all of the time, frankly I am surprised I even have to draw this out in the sand for people.

[Blue-Jay]

28. OK, then.

I've been pissed that they media continues to refer to her as a "young woman", instead of a "teenager" or "underaged" too. That said, I can't see the jump between underplaying her age (they have) and saying that rape is in any way acceptable (they have not).

[stop the bleeding]

30. it is implied n/t

[kapkao]

52. lots of things may be implied.

from Barbie's idyllic shape to those very maternal signs on most woman's restrooms. They can (and have) be(en) taken in an offensive light... if one wishes to take a turn for the worse... errr nutsy, ultra politically correct, that is.

Life shoves a stinking, raunchy asshole in yer face from time to time. Many times the best way to cope is to have a thick skin and nudge the putrid orifice aside. If I may be allowed to use a tagline from Quills (2000):

"There are no bad words, only bad deeds..."

Grow a thicker skin, all of you. (and watch Quills some time; 'tis a tad graphic in some scenes but over all a surreal eye-opener and a thought provoker as well. It is not for the faint of heart. Geoffery Rush is teh r0x!)

[rman]

72. That's your interpretation.

I think it implies that rape of an adult is considered to be less attrocious than rape of a child - which i think most people agree on.

I trust you understand that "less attrocious" does not mean "acceptable".

[patcox2]

19. Calm down there, oh easily angered one.

Now, if it was a beating instead of a rape, people might react differently to the beating of a junior high school student and the beating of an adult.

If the beating were of a person in a wheelchair, people might react differently, because beating a person in a wheelchair is even more dastardly.

Basically, age does matter, because a crime, any crime, committed against someone who is weaker, smaller, more vulnerable, is a worse crime.

You are imagining things when you think you see some kind of apology for rapes committed against adults in this.

[Uncle Joe]

20. Rape is always wrong, never acceptable, however the question should be

why would the MSM tell the American People a girl is a woman?

[Orangeone]

44. Last night on my local news

they tried to have it both ways by calling her a "teenage woman"!

[Skidmore]

23. It's NOT the age itself that is important because a crime is a crime but

what is important is the perpetuation of a Lie Machine. This lie, hiding of truth, dissemblence was for the soul purpose of negating the horror of a crime by clouding facts. That itself is a crime. Try it with a judge in a court here. That the press participates in this is even more horrible. No one is saying that this rape and murder are not horrific beyond words. It is equally horrific beyond words that they would seek to use this girl's very life facts to make her seem somehow more deserving of her violation death. It bothers me that I keep seeing threads like this because, aside from the crime, that child and her family deserve to be remembered as people who actually lived and were who they were. Not just a war crime stat.

I share your outrage over the crime, but I am equally outraged over the excusing of the footloose way people are choosing to deal with the facts surrounding this crime.

[bobbolink]

26. I share your anger, and wondered when *someone* would pick up on this!

However, we 'murkins are just as silly about other things.

It's OK for a 60 year-old woman to be homeless, but a child? Homeless? Then that becomes something that needs attention.

We hear the phrases about how many children go to bed hungry at night. What about their parents? How well can a wo/man parent when they are hungry?

The list goes on...

We USians don't take good care of our children as a nation, but we use children to get people to have concern.

It's all quite nonsensical.

[no_hypocrisy]

29. ......

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. There's a certain type of rape apologist who believes that rape is

a crime only if the victim is undeniably "innocent."

When I was in graduate school, someone broke into one of the grad dorms and raped a woman resident.

Upon hearing it, one of the trustees of the university was reported as saying, "Oh, well, she probably wasn't a virgin anyway."

This was thirty years ago, but I'm sure that attitude is still prevalent among the nation's numerous mysogynists.

[Biernuts]

80. Yep - the same kind of mentality results in little or no attention to

the majority of rapes that occur in the USA everyday since many reason that "he deserved it since he was in prison"

Of course society pays the price when a far angrier and more dangerous prisoner either escapes, is parolled or completes his sentence.

[Igel]

32. The implied strawman argument was tedious the 100th

time around.

Nobody's said rape was acceptable. But if it's addressed towards a minor, it's worse. Some people have pointed this out. Let me put it differently: To rape a woman that could give consent is to violate her by depriving her of her right to consent. This is a crime. But the difference between rape and non-rape is consent, plus whatever force is necessary to ignore objections.

Now, consider something else. If she were 14 and wanted to have sex with a 21-year-old man, there are those who would defend her mature sexuality. Few, and crazy, but there'd be some, for sure--and if the guy were 17, I think a majority here would think it not too outrageous these days. But if she were pregnant, there'd be quite a few folk insisting that she be called a woman, in charge of making her own decisions, and nobody should be able to have say over her body. Not everybody agrees about this: those that do, to be consistent, would have to regard raping her as equivalent to raping a 20-year-old woman. Those that don't think a 14-year-old pregnant girl has the same abortion rights as an adult woman would have additional outrage for the crime. In other words ...

To rape a girl that is not able to give consent is to ignore the fact that she cannot even give consent. It is not merely ignoring her will and using her body; it is ignoring the societal strictures that say she is completely out of bounds as a sexual object: she can not give consent, because it is not her right to have say over her body. This is a worse crime, one not only against the woman raped, but against society as a whole. One may object that rape does not involve sex, but it most certainly does involve the sex act, and the majority of rapes have a sexual component; outlier instances do not constitute the rule, they merely show the rule to be inadequage to cover the full range of behavior.

[lies and propaganda]

33. wait a sec...

are people trying to act like it was worse because she was young?

as if it not the most heinous possible crime anyway?

[heidler1]

34. We recognize fault of the underlying circumstances of early death

do to war. Bush has that on his back and also is responsible for putting our men in a situation where respect of the enemy is bound to be minimal. It was inevitable that this would happen. Bush tried to keep this type of problem out of the hands of the Iraqi new government, by lying. Let's hope they kick our ass out soon.

[DELUSIONAL]

35. The attitude used to be -- if it is female -- then she is asking for it

That wasn't so long ago -- perhaps 60 years ago -- in the US.

The simple idea that women can say NO, has the RIGHT to say NO -- seems to be rather recent.

Along with the concept that women are really humans and part of the human race comes the concept that we have sovereignty over our own bodies.

Iraq is a very dangerous place for females of any age. War zones are dangerous places for females -- which is perhaps way more women need to be in war zones. Not that all women are humane and care about their fellow human females.

Forget it -- war is just wrong -- and humans lose their humanity and if they had a weak hold on humanity in the first place then "war" is used as an excuse for all kinds of abhorrent behavior.

bush is an evil son of a bitch -- this "war" comes from his mind and he is a mad man.

Rape is NEVER o.k. -- no matter the age of the individual -- in recognition that males can also be raped -- at any age.

[China_cat]

40. 60 years ago?

How about 10 years ago? How about yesterday? And yes, I mean here and now.

[DELUSIONAL]

58. You're right -- it still happens

I was thinking about a 3 yr old who was raped 60+ years ago -- the adults blamed the little girl.

I was hoping that the US had progressed since then.

[lectrobyte]

36. Never.

[TahitiNut]

37. (Short Circuit) When ANY sexual relations with a "minor" is called rape

... then the language itself causes some mental short circuits. Few (but probably some) would regard consensual (even if not legal consent) intercourse between an adult (18-year-old?) female and minor (16-year-old?) male as rape in anything close to the same degree that an adult (25-year-old?) male forcing intercourse with a young, minor (7-year-old?) female would be regarded.

While 'consent' is often regarded as legally irrelevant, it certainly isn't irrelevant from a psychological perspective - unarguably a major component of the harm to the victim which makes such an act criminal.

Discussions are further obfuscated regarding allegations of rape when the veracity of the allegations are, to one degree or another, not clear.

[kapkao]

46. Dammit, this knave stole my point about legal age statute! Rawr. >:) (nt)

[omega minimo]

53. Your arguments sound so clinical and detached

"While 'consent' is often regarded as legally irrelevant, it certainly isn't irrelevant from a psychological perspective - unarguably a major component of the harm to the victim which makes such an act criminal. Discussions are further obfuscated regarding allegations of rape when the veracity of the allegations are, to one degree or another, not clear."

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[omega minimo]

65. Absolutely hideous. DU why won't you STAND UP TO THIS SHIT?

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TahitiNut]

59. It's a myth that emotion cannot exist in the presence of reason ...

... merely because too many abandon reason in the presence of emotion. Some, thinking themselves or others incapable of reason, choose to rely solely on emotion. Thus, the myth seems to serve them.

"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you; If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; ... If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same ... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it." - (Joseph) Rudyard Kipling

[omega minimo]

61. "Clinical and detached" is not = "reason"

[TahitiNut]

62. I see. So, "clinical and detached" is = "get(ting) off" (per you)??

That's a pretty bizarre dictionary you have there in your world. :eyes:

Main Entry: clinical
Synonyms: analytic, antiseptic, cold, detached, disinterested, emotionless, impersonal, objective, scientific, unemotional

:shrug:

[omega minimo]

63. No, you are picking up a reply specific to the other poster, not your post

"Further proof" did not refer to your post, but to the recent frequency of OPs that do seem to get off on talking rape, without much reason.

[Ringo84]

38. Don't tell me; let me guess

A RWers is trying to say that it's OK that US soldiers raped a fifteen year old girl.

Wow. That is low. Even for them.
Ringo

[Threedifferentones]

41. Implying a grey area?

The media also makes a bigger fuss when murder, or any crime really, is committed on a child. This is understandably so, and I do not see how media coverage of the tragedy condones rape at all.

[Avalux]

42. WHAT?

Not acceptable at any age, for any race, for any sex. NEVER.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

75. How is that even funny to you? It's disgusting.

[kapkao]

45. to answer an already rhetorical Q- ages10-25, according to the stat's.

I think it's more an issue of either "canned goods" or "ease of luring into an abusive situation" than acceptability. And yes, youths/young adults are easier to ambush and hurt than their older peers. Deal with it.

On that note, maybe it is a reference to our greatly outmoded legal age statute most places have adopted. Many people I've met find 'teen magnetism' to be perfectly acceptable as long as it is mutual and consensual.

in the more likely scenario, the press is whoring for more nielsen ratings.

PS.

Rage less, rationalize more. You'll feel better for it. (guess that counts as 'chiding' ye).

[Cocoa]

47. of course the age is an issue

it's a political issue and probably a legal issue.

And the fact the media appears to have tried to fudge her age is an issue.

[SPKrazy]

48. So If She Was 15 Instead of 14.....

then what?

it would have been legal?

Just because 15 is the legal age of marriage in Iraq doesn't have anything to do with rape and murder does it?

[Cocoa]

49. age makes a difference in rape doesn't it?

legally speaking, I mean. Seems obvious, but maybe I'm wrong.

[SPKrazy]

78. That Depends On Local Laws

but rape, especially gang rape, and murder, are pretty obviously crimes

[uppityperson]

50. no one is saying THAT

argh. this is frustrating. The media and whomever gave them the info (military) has tried to downplay this, has MANAGED to downplay this for months with a good part of the reason because they covered it up by saying she was an adult. AT NO AGE IS RAPE FINE! NONE. 1. Media/military coverup has been blown 2.Of course people are more protective of children, there are more laws and hurting a child is looked at more harshly than hurting an adult. But the issue is NOT anyone saying rape is acceptable or legal. argh.



Here is a copy of the OP: this is because once again our "God Loving Librul Media" has decided to make an issue about her age - thus implying that there is a grey area of acceptableness - to all of the posters who chided me on this post and missed the obvious point - well then I am sorry for you.

[kapkao]

54. this is getting fucking redundant...

stop missing the woods for one decrepid, husk of a tree?


I'm beginning to think, that some of you want someone to say that sexual assault is ok under some circumstancs; that the intense mistrust and frustration many of you display might have a target to be directed at (in a most freudian fashion, jah?)

I declare this thread a pointless witch hunt until further notice. Have fun in life.

[bdamomma]

51. Rape is not acceptable

for anyone male or female.

[JI7]

57. i hate to bring race, ethnicity, etc into this

but i think some people don't care much because she was Iraqi and Muslim. just like some didn't care much about the Vietnamese females who were raped. and just like some don't care about the missing colored kids and people in America.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

64. Rape is NEVER acceptable

I'm not sure if the age of the victim is relevant to the rape or to the murder (probably more the latter).

Some states have definitions of "aggravated murder" or "murder with special circumstances" that include the killing of a child under 14 years of age (such as Oregon's statute) that automatically raise an intentional homocide to murder in the first degree when a child is the victim. Other special circumstances could include any intentional homocide of a police officer or the witness to a crime. But murder following any rape (or any felony) of any person at any age will also probably trigger the same "special circumstances". But the fact remains that these statutes identify the intentional homocide of children as being particularly vile and depraved. Our society seeks to protect children more than adults because they are helpless and easy prey. Making murder of a child more likely to lead to the death penalty instead of life in prison is probably meant to deter the intentional homocide of children.

[foreigncorrespondent]

66. Rape isn't acceptable at any age. (n/t)

[genieroze]

67. none

[rman]

68. What makes you think age has anything to do with acceptability?

Murder being worse than theft does not mean theft is acceptable

Likewise rape of child being worse than rape of an adult does not mean that rape of an adult is acceptable.

[donheld]

69. Age 152

If you live that long you have my permission :eyes:

[B Calm]

70. Bush vs Gore Supreme Court decision was rape

[B Calm]

71. Remember the rapists telling us to get over it!

[LostinVA]

77. No, that wasn't rape... it was political and legal evilness

But, it wasn't rape,

[sendero]

73. I can't either..

... but I understand that people think the "outrage factor" would be higher for a younger person.

Some have also questioned the issue of age as it relates to "consent". Excuse me while I LLLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL.

They gunned down her whole family, I don't think the issue of consent has a lot of weight.

Personally, I feel like everyone getting torqued out because the media says "young woman" or somesuch is just wasted outrage. There is plenty to be disgusted about here, whether she was 10 or 100.

[KyuzoGator]

76. All rape is terrible, but I admit that rape of a child bothers me more. nt

[treestar]

79. I don't think it's that they mean it is "acceptable" so much as that

it is extra horrible somehow if the victim is really young. It is a perspective on that attacker, making the attacker even worse. Pointing that out does not mean the person is saying it is acceptable at any time.