Police say 11 year old girl gang raped by football players

[theHandpuppet]

Jeezus H. Christ, what kind of young men are we raising in this society???? The abuse, rape and murder of women and girls in this country is epidemic and no one seems to be asking why the hell this is happening.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/10/girl.raped.ap/index.html

Football players gang-raped girl, 11, police say
Victim was a runaway from a group home

Monday, July 10, 2006; Posted: 2:47 p.m. EDT (18:47 GMT)

FRESNO, California (AP) -- The rape of an 11-year-old girl may have involved as many as 10 men, most of whom are football players at local community colleges, police said.

Police arrested two men in connection with the rape Saturday night, and officials said they identified eight others as persons of interest in the case. Most or all are students at either Fresno City College or Reedley College, police said.

The victim, a runaway from a group home, went to a Fresno apartment complex Saturday night to visit an acquaintance, said police spokesman Jeff Cardinale.

While she was inside one of the units, she allegedly was sexually assaulted multiple times by several men, he said....

MORE

[Webster Green]

1. One of the accused soldiers in the Iraq rape case is from Fresno

Its also headquarters for the freepers dark site.

Whats up with Fresno?.....sounds like a lovely place!.

[Jim Sagle]

3. It's the home of Free Republic.

[raysr]

34. Nuff said

[Tulum_Moon]

41. Fresno

Where all good freepers hang out. Scott Peterson hung out there.

[Deja Q]

2. Horrible. Senseless, vile. Evil.

x(

[everythingsxen]

4. These things happen...

and people say I am an asshole because I want to wipe out 90+% of the human race...

Scum....

Oh well since they are Community College Football players, they will at least get charged, if it was a major university or NFL team, they wouldn't even get fined. :eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Yeah. And If they were Priests, they probably wouldn't even get arrested.

[pnwmom]

58. Thanks for the gratuitous anti-Catholic slam.

[Warren DeMontague]

64. So, you're saying that there haven't been widespread molestations by

Priests?

Are you saying that the CHURCH HIERARCHY hasn't been complicit in covering up for, "relocating", and defending these monsters?

Perhaps you're suggesting that the Church has been treated 'unfairly' due to these actions, despite the fact that if any other organization had engaged in widespread, potentially criminal conspiracy to cover up large numbers of child rapes and pedophiles, they would be run out of every county in this nation by torch-wielding townsfolk?

That wasn't a "slam" at Catholics, it was a slam at child molesting Priests. Are they one and the same?

If you can't separate your religious beliefs and your identity from an institution that has clearly engaged in -to say the least- some unsavory activities in recent (and not so recent years), that's your problem.

But you know, the church, and these child molesting priests, already get to play by different rules than everybody else- which was precisely my point. I'm not sure what else you want, except maybe for everyone to ignore the facts.

[jbnow]

68. It was still gratuitous

and not related to this crime.

As much as priests who molested were covered for and as horrible as their acts were (and the acts of the church covering) I suspect if a large group of them raped an 11 year old there might have been quick consequences.

[Warren DeMontague]

70. Oh, follow the thread back a ways and figure out how we got here.

I really don't see why it's more acceptable for a guy in a white collar to molest a kid than it is anyone else.

[pnwmom]

76. Somehow I missed the case where 10 priests gang raped an 11 yr. old.

I never said that it was more acceptable for a guy in a white collar to molest a kid.
I'm saying that for you to point to Catholic priests in particular and in this context is an anti-Catholic slam. Child molesters exist in all walks of society, unfortunately, and so do rapists.

[timber84]

77. lol!

Good one pnwmom!

[Warren DeMontague]

81. Yeah. One priest raped a 12 year old, and the Church helped him get away.

I guess that's okay, though.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=local&id=4345864

[timber84]

82. Boy aren't you sensitive!

I was referring to pnwmom's rather good retort to you. Shove your opinion down someone elses throat.

[Warren DeMontague]

86. You must have taken debate classes in school.

I can tell.

[AllNamesHaveBeenUsed]

101. Sensitive, or dense?

[Warren DeMontague]

104. Oh, that hurts.

Mr. and Mrs. One-Line-Would-Be-Witty-Retort ("Right On!" "You said it!") Can't-Come-Up-With-A-Single-Original-Point-To-Add-To-The-Thread have called me "Sensitive" and "Dense!"

Heavens! Whatever shall I do?! :wow:

[pnwmom]

84. You know I never said that was okay.

I'm saying that when the problem is society-wide, in fact world-wide, it is a slam to single out one religious group in an unrelated context.

[Warren DeMontague]

87. Again, is the Catholic Church Heirarchy synonymous with all Catholics?

The institution has a problem, clearly. And it's not helped by the fact that some seem to think it shouldn't have to play by the same rules as everyone else.

[pnwmom]

90. No, and individual molesting priests are not ALL priests.

And I don't know ANY Catholics who think that the church should be able to play by different rules.

But the issues the church is facing are unrelated to the situation in the OP. And they are faced by many other churches. Who hasn't heard of serious cases of molestation in fundamentalist churches, the LDS, and others? The fact that you chose to single out Catholics in this context is what makes it gratuitous and a slur.

[Warren DeMontague]

97. Not really. It happens to be in the headlines of my paper this week.

I guarantee you, if the institutional heirarchy of the Mormons, Hassidic Jews, Unitarians (if there is one) or any other religious organization does the overtime legwork to protect pedophiles that the Catholic Church has documentedly done in recent years, I will be right there criticizin' them, as well.

[Rabrrrrrr]

92. So, now it's a "slam" to speak a truth?

Hmmmm.... must meditate on this new situation and come up with ways to point out the truth of Shrubbie's crimes without somehow "slamming" all of maledom, or all white people, or all rich people, or all 60-year olds, or all people in leadership, or all people who live in white houses, or all people who own cars, or ...

You do realize the difference between 'specific' and 'general', don't you? Sets and subsets? Between the very specific subset of 'child molesting priests' and the very general overall set of 'all Catholics worldwide and over the two thousand year history of the church'?

[pnwmom]

93. It's a slam to single out Catholics in this context when molestation and

other forms of abuse have occurred across many religions and across society in general.

[Rabrrrrrr]

96. Ah - I think I get it. You aren't mad that someone pointed out that there

are some pedophile priests and that the Catholic Church helped to cover up some of their abuses - you are angry that the person who mentioned it didn't mention EVERY OTHER CLASSIFICATION IN THE UNIVERSE OVER THE ENTIRETY OF ALL TIME of people who molest children, because to single any specific instance out without mentioning EVERY OTHER ONE THROUGH TIME AND SPACE is to unfairly single one group out for ridicule.

That sounds like a reasonable position to take. :eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

80. Previous poster said, "if they were pro football players, they would have

gotten off with fines".

My response was, if they were Priests, they very well might not be charged with anything, at all. Particularly in light of the fact that they have one of the richest organizations in the world actively working to cover up their crimes and shield them from prosecution. That's one big difference between Priests and "all walks of society".

That's not an "Anti-Catholic Slam". At least, not unless Catholicism and all Catholics in general are synonymous with the Institutional Heirarchy of the Catholic Church. Are you saying they're one and the same?

The examples are legion, but here's one we've had in our local papers just these past two weeks- allow me to quote:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=local&id=4345864

A 12-year-old boy is the victim in an April incident and critics belive that Catholic officials' delay in reporting the accusations gave the priest time to get away.

The Church Heirarchy apparently waited at least a week, maybe more to report to authorities about a CRIME they KNEW HAD BEEN COMMITTED. Why the hell isn't someone dragging them in on conspiracy or racketeering charges?

Again, special rules.

[pnwmom]

88. The analogy doesn't hold. Why don't you start a thread about that,

if you want to?

But here, in this context, it's a disgression and gratuitous.

[Warren DeMontague]

Someone brought up people who seem to "get away" with crimes against

kids.

IMHO, it's relevant and timely- just look at the article I linked.

But I'm done, I've said all I need to say here. Peace.

[jbnow]

108. I see where it came from

someone mentioned other penalties if a major team had done it, you just brought up another example of how offenders are treated differently.

I still hope a TEAM of priests raping a child wouldn't be covered up for, but who knows.

I didn't mean to downplay the crime of offending clergy. They are in such a position of trust and authority and that makes it all the worst.
I have thought those in charge who covered up for them and put other kids at risk should have been charged with child endangerment, don't care if they are a bishop or cardinal. They have extra responsibility.

The statement seemed out of place because of the team of guys issue, it would have felt more fitting if it was a football player, not a team. But again as related to how they are treated it makes sense.
Well I don't know that the police would treat a priest with tender care...the church officials try to keep it from the police.

[AllNamesHaveBeenUsed]

100. That isn't what pnwmom said

Search the dictionary for the word "gratuitous."

[TahitiNut]

69. I think it's probably been earned - so it's not gratuitous.

Organizations that gain their support by conferring upon themselves a higher standard of morality and demand trust of their adherents clearly have a commensurately higher duty to honor that trust. We're NOT talking about an equal standard here - we're talking about not even meeting a standard that would be expected of a Boy Scout troop.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. If it was, say, the Kiwanis club, they would be persona non grata in most

towns.

If it was taking place inside, say, 7-11s instead of the Catholic Church, there would be laws saying you couldn't have a 7-11 within 1000 feet of a school or playground.

But, as always, the Church gets to play by 'special' rules.

[Jax]

79. You are making very good points in this thread impeachdubya

Thank you.

[Hubert Flottz]

78. Youth Group Leader Accused of Rape

A volunteer youth group leader has been charged with rape in Lucasville, located in southeast Ohio.

Raymond Brown is accused of several rapes involving children ranging in age from nine to 14.

Some Lucasville residents told 10TV that Brown was organizing a "God march" with the kids, and said they needed to practice at his place on the weekends.

Then, last month, four girls started talking about what was allegedly going on and the parents of those girls learned the truth.

The mothers of the victims say they remember the day they were called to the church by the pastor.

http://www.10tv.com/?sec=home&story=10tv/content/pool/200606/1280330869.html


*************

Ran away from forced marriage, tricked into returning, hasn't been seen unescorted since

Ruby Jessop, 14 year old Child Bride

http://www.helpthechildbrides.com/

God hangs out with some sorry &%^$#@#@&*^!

[Zhade]

85. It's an ANTI-RAPIST slam, not an anti-Catholic one.

Unless you're alleging that all Catholics rape children, I don't think you can turn a legitimate slam against the cover-up of serial child abusers by the Vatican into an anti-all-Catholics slam.

[pnwmom]

94. Unless you think that ALL molesters are athletes or Catholic priests,

I don't see how you can justify singling out Catholic priests over any other religious group for this attack.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

106. They WERE singled out -- their asses got covered by church hierarchy

Other types of rapists weren't so lucky.

[BuddyYoung]

5. They stole her childhood and I hope they all pay a very high price.

This is the kind of thing that is inevitable in a society where mothers cannot afford to be at home to give their children love, guidance, security, and hope.

[idgiehkt]

7. This didn't happen at her home.

This is not about whether women work or not. Working class women have always worked outside the home, and middle class women have been rape victims as well.

Amazing how a child gets raped by 12 adult men and it's the fault of working mothers.

[NYC]

10. I interpreted that to mean

the mothers were not paying attention to raising the boys who grew up to be rapists.

[Richard Steele]

48. AH! That makes more sense- thanks for posting that thought.

I was THISCLOSE to posting a response I probably would have regretted!

[Scout]

57. you're still blaming someone's mother for not raising them right...

sorry, those males KNOW BETTER than to rape an 11 year old, no matter who or what or where their mothers were.

[melnjones]

37. took the words right out of my mouth. eom.

[NoodleyAppendage]

22. Rape horrible, what kind of childhood is a runaway from a group home?

Sounds like this poor kid lost her childhood long before this rape occurred. This incident is likely just the most recent of a long string of problems. One doesn't become a runaway living in a group home at the age of 11 without prior turmoil (or even prior sexual abuse).

J

[pnwmom]

59. Actually, she was a runaway from a group home.

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. And much of the raping is being done by players of aggressive sports.

You don't see the chess team, golf team, math team, crew team, cricket team, etc. pulling these fucking stunts.

It's always the football, basketball, hockey, rugby players doing it <-- the activities that are based on aggression, "manliness", groupthink, and with an emphasis on "team" and "togetherness".

[idgiehkt]

9. um, can you say "contact sports"?

kinda makes me wonder, such ones as like to rub up against the bodies of other men are the one that always seem to like to prove their masculinity by raping women. Or is joint sexual activity with a female as receptacle as far as they are willing to go with it?

[SoCalDem]

11. Adrenalin mixed with testosterone can be deadly

and in our society athletes are idolized and coddled.

I saw an NFL "hero" break a girl's back..she got a body cast.. he went to the Orange Bowl.. He was a star in college and became more famous later..

She was in his way, he was drunk, so he gave her a boot to the lower back.. He didn't even KNOW her..

[zeemike]

12. when the purpose of the sport is violence

What should we expect?

[jerry611]

30. Oh OK... so if we ban fooball, than rape wont happen anymore?

Grow up.

The sports have absolutely nothing to do with it.

And you think you can ban football in America? I dare you to try.

[Rabrrrrrr]

52. I said nothing about banning sports; nor did I say anything about how

banning football would eliminate rape, nor that America would accept a ban of football.

I'm not sure where you read that, but it surely wasn't in my post.

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. You implied it.

In your suggestion that football causes rape.

[Rabrrrrrr]

65. I never implied it; nor did I suggest that football causes rape.

I merely pointed out that there seems to be some sort of link between aggressive, team-oriented, "manly" contact sports and group-based aggressive behavior off the playing field.

I made no attempts to say one causes the other, or that without one the other wouldn't exist.

I only pointed out that I think there is a link. But beyond pointing it out, I don't know what to say about it - does group-based aggressive sports cause group violence behavior? Or are people who are inherently attracted to group violence more prone to play group-based aggressive sports? I don't know, but I think it is an issue worth exploring.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

66. Ha ha.

the "seems to be some sort of link between aggressive, team-oriented, 'manly' contact sports and group-based aggressive behaviour off the playing field..." is a suggestion that football causes rape.

[Rabrrrrrr]

67. It's not a suggestion at all.

By your logic, it could very well be that I'm saying that being a rapist leads one to play football.

Don't be obtuse - pointing out a link between two things is not suggesting any kind of causal direction. Only that there seems to be a link.

Does football lead to rape? Or rape lead to football? I don't know. And I'm not coming down on either side, nor on the side of "neither leads to the other, they just happen statistically to go together."

I don't know; which is why I am precisely NOT trying to form a causal link between the two.

[niccolos_smile]

73. The team/togetherness concept...

I think should remove the team/togetherness concept from this critique, since a few of the sports you mentioned as well as some others require a team/together concept, but are not committing rapes.

It's not that the football, etc. (and basketball is supposed to be more of a finesses game - emphasis on shooting, not slugfest) cause these types of behaviors, but they attract people who already possess the behavior traits which would lead them to rape someone.

[Old and In the Way]

8. I sense a real moral breakdown occuring in our society.

The immoral war in Iraq, stolen elections, corporate crimes that go unpunished, religious hypocrisy....all this stuff is having a cumulative negative effect in our society.

[Demit]

14. Don't forget torture being okay now. And might makes right.

Our society is the proverbial fish, rotting from the head.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Demit]

15. Holy moly. That's exactly what I mean. What you are saying is NOT OK.

[Ghost in the Machine]

16. it's ok by me....

and I didn't ask you what you thought about it or what your feelings were about it

[Demit]

18. I told you anyway, didn't I? LOL!

[Ghost in the Machine]

23. I guess you did! LOL!

:hi: :toast:

[Bluebear]

19. 'Cut their cocks off, shove them down their throats....'

Your healing rhetoric could save our planet. :eyes:

[Drum]

20. lol

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jerry611]

39. And your death penalty has gotten us where???

You know what they do in Iran to pedophilies? Strap them to a pole and publically whip them to death. Guess what...people in that country still prey on children.

Society needs to start thinking of better ways to solve this problem than simply "killing the bastards." Because your way sure as hell isn't working either...

[Ghost in the Machine]

do you have any alternative suggestions?

Life in prison, or any amount of time for that matter, hasn't been much of a deterrent either. Rehab doesn't seem to work either, recedivism rates are pretty high. What is it going to take? We certainly can't just let them go free now, can we?

[jerry611]

47. There is no such thing as a deterrent for crime

You can't deter crime with punishment. We've been trying to do that for about 6,000 years now. It's not working.

There are different reasons why people commit a crime. And different crimes could have different solutions. We have this nasty habit of thinking that prison is going to deter every single crime out there. If that philosophy were true, the prisons would be empty today. But guess, they are not only full, but they are beyond capacity. That's why many criminals are being let go before their sentence is complete...to make room for the new ones.

I think it depends on the case. You have to examine each case and determine what is the true problem.

[Occulus]

49. Just a quick point:

If the laws governing petty crimes (including, and perhaps especially, drug use) were reasonable, we would have room for the true criminals.

How many laws do you live under that you can't quote at least the meaning of? It's scary. Really.

[jerry611]

51. Tell me about it

I was watching that show "Cops" and they were doing an undercover operation to catch Johns and prostitutes. Now if it was 1 or 2 officers, OK... But they had about a dozen cops all on overtime, a few undercover cops, and a SWAT team on standby to "make sure the undercover cop is always safe." All this for what? Stopping two adults from having sex?

And then the cops blame "low resources" when they are asked why they can't keep tabs on sex offenders.

Oh, and don't get me started about speed traps... There is no money to be made in checking to see if sex offenders are not violating parole. That costs the city too much money. But speed traps? That provides an income.

[LostinVA]

62. All rapists should get life without parole in my opinion

They are sociopathic... they can NOT be rehabbed.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. Death penalty costs more than life in prison

This is largely because prosecutors have to spend just as much money to get a conviction as they do a death sentence.

Besides, people who sexually assault children can't survive in the general prison population. They either get 23 hours a day in solitary for the rest of their lives or they get beaten to death in the general prison population.

[Ghost in the Machine]

26. your math doesn't add up...

The Cost of Imprisonment
How expensive any particular correctional institution is to build and operate will depend on a number of factors…where it is located, the number of inmates it confines, the number of personnel needed to adequately staff it, how secure it is designed to be, the extensiveness of inmate programs and treatment offered, and so on. In general, the larger and more secure a prison is, the more expensive it will be. Construction costs range from:

More than $80,000 per bed for maximum security state prisons, to

More than $30,000 per bed for minimum-security facilities (Camp, 1997).

These figures reflect only the initial construction cost. Annual operating average almost $20,000 per inmate (Camp, 1997).

A recent analysis indicates that the average yearly cost of keeping someone in prison has increased from about $14,000. (Dilulio, 1991) to $30,000 even $60,000 depending on facility. In an effort to offset the escalating costs of prison construction, some of the money from US Justice Department’s Asset Forfeiture Fund has been directed toward prison building needs (Justice Department, 1991). In addition, more and more facilities are charging inmates fees for room and board, as well as special services, such as medical treatment (Corrections Alert, 1994).

http://www.collegecourse.com/sou/crim/crim341/lecture4.htm

[Hippo_Tron]

28. Okay so that's the cost of keeping someone in prison

Here's some information I pulled when I was researching the topic

In Kansas, death penalty cases were found to have a median cost of $1.26 million, 49% greater than the median cost for cases of non death penalty cases.

In Indiana, death penalty cases cost 38% more than life without parole cases.

Florida would save $51 million per year by changing death penalty sentences to life without parole.

North Carolina spends $2.16 million more per execution than it does on a non death penalty case with life imprisonment.

Where the additional cost comes from is a question that is often raised. An ACLU study details the specifics of why death penalty cases are more expensive.

A much higher percentage of cases go to trial when the death penalty is at stake.
Death penalty cases include a more intensive jury selection, more pre-trial work, and a sentencing phase that is almost the length of an entire trial in itself.

These longer trials cost the taxpayers a significant amount of money to pay for the judges, prosecutors, public defenders, briefs, as well as other expenses.

Contrary to popular belief, most of the additional costs of death penalty cases come from the trial itself and not the appeals. One study found that as high as 87% of the court costs of death penalty cases come from the trial.

Sources

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7

http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/2cdd02b415ea3a64852566d6000daa79/9706e0aac59259be85256b740055872c/$FILE/DP_WhitePaper.pdf

Nobody is debating that prison is expensive, but the costs of trying to get someone sentenced to death can be over a $1 million more than it costs to just get them sentenced to life in prison. Also, those sentenced to death are often kept in prison for 10 years or more while their appeals are being heard. And if they get favorable rulings on sentencing in the lower courts, in their appeals, or the Governor commutes their sentence, the state ends up paying that $1 million+ to seek the death penalty and pays for life in prison because they couldn't get it.

[Ghost in the Machine]

35. I can see your point, and agree with it to a certain extent...

but we could also break it down on a case by case basis. Let's say. for instance, officers respond to a domestic disturbance. Upon arrival, the perp starts shooting at the officers. Do you shoot back, hitting the perp in the leg, thereby requiring a hospital visit (which of course, the state is going to pay for), then holding him in jail until trial, then a long prison sentence, costing taxpayers a lot of money.. or do you shoot him in the head? A bullet only costs $2.00

All I'm trying to get across is this: killers, rapists and other violent offenders do not fit into our society, period. They aren't fit to live. Why keep them around, to languish in prison at OUR expense for the rest of their, and our, lives? You know the rich don't pay much taxes, so it is the middle class and working poor who pay the upkeep on these criminals, who seem to live much better lives than some of us. They don't have to worry about when and if they will get their next meal, nor do they have to worry about if they will be able to go to the doctor if they get sick.

[Hippo_Tron]

46. I don't think that I quite understand your analogy

I think that you shoot for whatever body part will best make sure that you get home alive. Officers aren't really thinking about money when they are being shot at.

And my point was simply that it's cheaper for the taxpayers to not have the death penalty because increased trial costs ultimately cost them more than it does to house these people in prison.

Also, I think that a good way to fix a lot of this would be for prisoners to partly finance their own room and board through work. I think that some prisons do this if they have an industry of their own that their prisoners work on. But if they contract prison labor out to corporations that only pay $.10 an hour to the prisoners and little or nothing back to the state, then there is a problem. If corporations want prison labor, they should subsidize the costs of the prisons.

[madmusic]

54. Speaking of violence.

You seem pretty damn violent yourself.

There is a reason killers, rapists and other violent offenders are not automatically put to death. One reason is so we don't become like the Middle East. Our Constitution is what separates us from them, and though it is true some on Right and some on the Left would like to do away with parts of the Bill of Rights if it serves their cause, they are destroying the country as much or more as Bush or any terrorist ever will.

[High Plains]

75. The US criminal justice system is already severely punitive.

We sentence people to more time for the same crimes than most other countries, and it hasn't stopped the All-American violence.

In your righteous wrath you want to kill the killers. Rage might feel good, but it is not a sound basis for public policy decision-making.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

27. Yeah. Right.

That'll work just great. 10-4. Roger. :thumbsup:

:wtf:

[SensibleAmerican]

32. There's that pesky Constitution

But emotionally I agree with you. Spiritually I don't, but emotionally I do.

[Ghost in the Machine]

43. Emotions can run strong and deep...

and as a father of 13 year old daughter, these things tear my heart out. I have a 10 year old neice that was molested a year and a half ago, so that raises my emotions on the issue too. She is doing well now, thanks to family and counseling, plus the fact that the guy who molested her was found dead in the woods with 19 self inflicted stab wounds... FUCK the baby rapers, let them ALL die...

[Richard Steele]

44. Base emotional responses are a poor foundation for social policy.

Poor foundation for most things, actually.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. Yeah, tell it to these football players.

Sounds like they had trouble controling their emotions too.

[LostinVA]

63. And that's why I'm against the death penalty

Emotions cannot be the basis for deciding someone's fate. I also don't think the government entity has a right to take someone's right -- NO ONE has that right. I do believe in life without any chance of parole.

[Clarkie1]

33. I pray you are not serious. nt

[jerry611]

36. According to researches, we all may be carrying the genes

I was reading an artcle in a magazine several months back trying to explain the reason for pedophilia. And it is believed by many researches that in the stone age, pedophilia was occuring regularly. The life expectancy was very low, and for the species to have a chance to survive, sex and pregnancy was occuring at extremely young ages.

If that is true, YOU as well as everyone else may be carrying the genes that lead to pedophilia.

[benevolent dictator]

45. Let's blame genetics!

It's a fun game. It absolves everyone of responsibility.

[melnjones]

40. Um...

I wouldn't want my abusers put through that. Actually, if they were to be put through that I'd have to go through even more trauma. Good idea, not.

[jbnow]

103. You responded to a message

that is deleted now., but people have been talking about the death penalty so I'm guessing that was part of it.

And what you say is part of the reason I'd be 100% against the death penalty for child molesters.

You wrote Actually, if they were to be put through that I'd have to go through even more trauma.

Having worked with abused kids I shudder at the very possibility of the death penalty as punishment. First the majority of molesters are people close to the child, sometimes loved by the child. Abusers often use emotional blackmail to keep the child quiet (If you tell they will put me in jail) and if they do tell that can be a heavy burden on a child, they too often blame themselves for it.

But if someone's dad or uncle or grandpa was executed the child would forever carry that, it would be way too much an emotional burden on them.

It would be hard on the kid if anyone was executed because they told, let alone a relative or family friend. And we can't make stranger molestation death penalty eligible and not family sexual abuse or we'd be saying it's better to abuse your kids.

Just no way in the world should that ever be the law, never. With counseling or growing up a child can grasp that jail was fair, the adult was doing something wrong. I don't think most could ever come to peace with "daddy" being killed because they told...even though the child would still not be to blame.

To be honest I am against the death penalty, not because I want to be nice to killers. The larger punishment is letting them live on in their cell. Once they are dead they aren't paying any penalty, they are just dead. It lowers all of us to be part of a society that does that.

But especially in this case...where it would depend on a child's testimony...the death penalty should never be considered. The abuser would just be dead and it's the victim who would be haunted.
I can't imagine anyone who has worked with sexually abused children ever being in favor of it. The heart of a child is too tender.

[silverojo]

42. Minus the part about cutting off cocks....

I do believe that the death penalty should be used more often for extremely violent criminals. There are some people who are just beyond rehabilitation, and this includes the kind of guys who would rape a little girl.

[lumberjack_jeff]

17. If the allegations are true, I hope justice is served to the perpetrators.

[Catherine Vincent]

25. Freepers want the media to play the race card....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1603308&mesg_id=1603308

[uppityperson]

50. tragic.

[skygazer]

53. Okay, reality check here

This is a horrible, tragic story BUT....

It's not a new one. Like so many other horror stories of child abductions, murders of young white women and that sort of thing, it's not necessarily true that we've reached some sort of "epidemic" in abuse, rape and murder of women and girls, who have always, throughout the course of history, suffered abuse, rape and murder. And for much of that time, there were few laws against those things.

We don't see these stories because we're failing our kids as parents, or because women are working outside the home, or because there's some sort of moral decay in society. It's because the media leaps on these sensational stories like vultures on a road kill. They have ALWAYS happened and unfortunately they probably always will. We can do our best to educate, pass laws, teach our children safe behavior but a story like this is less indicative of some sort of epidemic than it is of the sad state of the media today.

[kmla]

56. Don't try to ruin this thread with reason and intelligence....

...and astute observation.

We're not used to it.

:D

[LostinVA]

61. I posted this yesterday, and it got shunted into the CA forum

Glad they're letting this one stay put.

[The Stranger]

72. Now if she were Iraqi, she would be a "woman."

[uppityperson]

109. you beat me to it.

congratulations on a sardonic posting, better than mine.:toast:

[texasleo]

74. a black stripper makes false accusations.....

oh, why bother.

[genieroze]

83. Sick wolf pack mentality. These are college men raping a child.

What the hell is wrong with these people.

[earth mom]

89. The young men of this country are being raised to look at women as objects

We have gone backward as a civilization. :(

[Greyhound]

91. Indeed, about 110 years so far.

:cry:

[lonestarnot]

95. Symptoms of a sick society.

[Solly Mack]

98. Yep

[meisje]

99. Since when does DU believe anything the police say?

If the police say" If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about"
Do you believe that?

Of course these men are guilty without a trial on DU as all men are pigs.

[timber84]

102. No all men are not pigs!

I hope I missed your sarcasm. I hope.

[Bluebear]

105. So DU is anti-police now?

[Catherine Vincent]

107. If guilty, those guys will end up like these guys:

http://www.click2houston.com/news/9499314/detail.html