We are losing our right to possess most chemicals!

[benburch]

http://www.unitednuclear.com/legalaction.htm

The United States CPSC has initiated criminal legal action against us and other chemical suppliers. In short, the CPSC would like to ban the public from all access to chemicals.

This would mean an end to Chemistry as a hobby, as well as all personal research and other endeavors involving chemicals of any sort.

One by one, our freedoms are slowly being taken away from us. This action must be stopped now.

Currently, the CPSC is focusing on common chemical Oxidizers (such as Perchlorate Compounds, Nitrate Compounds, Permanganate Compounds, Chlorate Compounds, etc., along with a wide variety of other common chemicals & metals such as: Sulfur, Aluminum, Magnesium, Titanium, Zirconium, Zinc, Magnailim, Benzoate Compounds, Salicylate compounds, Antimony and antimony compounds, etc.

<snip>

So this will basically end most home invention of just about anything at all. This ends science fairs. This ends hope optical lab work. This ends model rocketry. This ends home production of photographic emulsions. This means you can no longer make thermite to remove a stump.

All in the name of preventing terrorism. And all uselessly as the worst terrorism the USA has ever known required only airline tickets and box cutters.

Am I the only one here that believes that this is a major freaking issue?

[wtmusic]

1. You got me with model rocketry

Cheezus. How about vinegar and baking soda? :eyes: Yes this is a major freaking issue. :grr:

[stevedeshazer]

2. It's a major freaking issue.

Notice how it's getting into the public awareness through the anti-meth campaign?

Meth is the new gateway drug for those who never use it (for the record, I don't and despise tweekers) in that meth addiction has been introduced into the public conciousness as a perfectly good reason to ban Sudafed, hence other chemicals.

Hey, I don't use Sudafed or methamphetamine, so why do I care? If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about, right?

Maybe if they outlaw gunpowder, the NRA will get on the case.

[benburch]

3. Gunpowder may not be a "high explosive"...

...but I'd wager that a Ryder truck packed full of it would make a huge hole in a federal building all the same.

[jerry611]

7. One Ryder truck full of fertilizer killed 170 people...

...and blew off the front half of a federal building.

[benburch]

9. Well, the fertilizer/fuel bomb is a High Explosive.

That is, one in which the burning takes place faster than the speed of sound.

Gunpowder is a "low explosive", that is, though it burns quickly, and more quickly the tighter it is packed, the shock wave of the detonation travels faster than the burning front which limits the effectiveness of a gunpowder charge.

[formercia]

55. Frankfort Arsenal has done many studies

on the behavior of black powder as well as smokeless powder. Some of their studies show wave front velocities around 20K FPS. with black powder 'detonations'.

Modern Muzzle loaders, of which I have a few, can routinely achieve muzzle velocities in excess of 1800 Feet per Second.
Black powder burns in a regressive manner,and smokeless powder is engineered to burn in a progressive manner.
Explosions with black powder weapons sometimes occur when an air space is left between the projectile and the powder column. This allows the initial ignition to quickly suspend the powder particles, allowing them to all ignite at once, rather than having the normally compressed column of powder burning from one end and limiting the amount of powder particles that are in contact with the ignition source.Black powder filled shells were in use until late in the 19th Century, and in a few desperate cases, into WWII.

[benburch]

73. Fascinating!

Thanks!

[formercia]

78. Used to be one of my avocations

until the US Government showed me the dark side.

You're welcome. I could expound all day on the subject of IED's.

[petgoat]

66. There's some doubt about that Fertilizer Device

OK City TV reported that two unexploded devices were found in the building.

A former OK state legislator, Charles Key, has been speaking out on this.

http://www.okcbombing.org/about_us.htm

Another Fun Fact:

Apparently Terry Nichols traveled to a village in the Philippines at the
same time that al Qaeda's Project Bojinka plotters were there, so it's
possible that he learned to build the fertilzer device from the same people
who did the '93 WTC attack.

See Peter Lance, 1000 Years for Revenge

[benburch]

75. *sigh*

:eyes:

[petgoat]

84. Have you read Peter Lance?

Five Emmys.

Journalism degreee, Columbia

Law degree, Fordham

Had a long career with ABC news

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Lance


As to the unexploded devices, are you calling former OK state legislator
Charles Key and former NBC TV reporter Jayna Davis liars?

[formercia]

36. Gunpowder detonates well

all you need is a blasting cap. Locals in Iraq use salvaged powder to make Dupont Spinners for fishing.

[benburch]

42. Well, what they have there is likely smokeless powder.

Which is nitrocellulose. I was talking about black powder, which is carbon, sulfur, and potassium nitrate in a granulated mixture.

[bonemachine]

17. Pseudoephedrine HCL

Is fucking a pretty unpleasent chemical itself, in my personal experience. I've always avoided decongestants and such with it in it whenever possible, because for me the side effects are as bad or worse than what I'm trying to get rid of.

[SmokingJacket]

34. It's the only thing that knocks out my sinus pain.

Maybe there's a prescription out there that will do it -- but we don't have prescription coverage...

I'm willing to jump through the hoops to get the stuff, but I'd appreciate some evidence that taking it off the shelves really does curb the meth problem.

[benburch]

44. It doesn't. All that happens is that it comes in from Mexico.

And people connected with the GOP Crime Syndicate can then make money smuggling it.

[bonemachine]

110. I'm glad it works for you

I don't think it should be illegal or anything, I just find it to be ineffective and unpleasent.

[formercia]

38. they sell it because it's cheap to make

and putting restrictions on it is just a justification for making more profit by jacking the price.

[Bretttido]

59. Methamphetamines aren't illegal, just not as easy to buy in bulk.

Which I'm in favor of...

[jerry611]

4. This is just as retarded as banning guns

People think that banning guns will lead to a decrease in violence, deaths, and criminal activity.

Now they think that banning chemicals will prevent decrease terrorism.

If you have half a brain and studied even the most basic chemistry, you can make a very powerful bomb without using any of the chemicals they want to ban.

Some very stupid people running our government these days...

[benburch]

6. Even MORE retarded.

Because it stifles innovation.

[Warren DeMontague]

5. people lost the right to possess most of the real good ones a while back

already.

[Canuckistanian]

8. The end of the inventor's dream

The next liquid paper, the next household cleaner, the next hair treatment... all inventions of ordinary citizens with an idea...

But salicylate compounds? I'd hardly call them dangerous. Can you make explosives from salicylates? Doubtful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylic_acid

This is all about profits from potential future chemical compounds, as well as killing off non-corporate chemical innovations.

[benburch]

10. Note that we are not talking about about huge amounts of anything here.

It isn't like you order a tank car load of cryogenic liquid chlorine with which you attack Chicago. (And you'd need more than a single tank car, really, more on that in another posting soon.) This is hobbyist amounts of stuff.

Say you were going to re-create Isaac Newton's reflecting telescope. Well, you'd need to make Speculum metal out of Copper, Tin and Arsenic. Ooops. No Arsenic! But the amount you would need is only 2% of the total weight, and the mirror was only like 2" in diameter... But for lack of this trifling amount that project is closed to you forever.

[Richard Steele]

12. And that MAY be the point. This doesn't discourage terrorists...

...from building bombs, not even a little bit.

It will, however, discourage a lot of kids from developing
an interest in SCIENCE.

That's always been the traditional path in this country;
many great and important inventers/innovators started out
as kids with a "lab" in a basement or shed.

But now the Administration which has done more to DESTROY
the US public education system is putting an end to
science hobbies as well.

They are attempting to set up a Corporatocracy based upon
the FEUDAL model, with them and their friends as the new "nobles".

An educated, technologically skilled peasant class
is NOT in their best interest.

[blues90]

15. Well was'nt it bush himself that said

He does not believe in science or evolution and does believe in intelligent design which we know well he was not part of that theory .

More than this , what is there to prevent any set minded terrorist to bring his own chemicals or explosives into this country ? We don't have secure ports or secure anything else . Does this restriction of chemicals include what bush used to blow up frogs in his younger years .

Next thing will be us lined up to get that bagged gray uniform so we all match and no one stands out right before they put us in camps .

I would'nt doubt in time guns will be next to be baned unless you are for bush and not against him and can prove this .

[troubleinwinter]

11. This is insane!!!!!!

I use all manner of chemicals (glacial acetic acid, copper sulphate, liver of sulphur, nitric acid, etc., etc.) for applying patinas to metals and for etching glass and metal.

It's called ART, also known as FREEDOM.

[Tulum_Moon]

13. It has been 20 years

since anyone has purchased a decent chem set for their kid! In the name of safety.

[Cobalt Violet]

28. And zinc, magnesium and titanium are all pigments I use.

Artist = terrorist :sarcasm:

[eppur_se_muova]

33. Minor point of clarification -- I'm sure this refers to the free metals.

Magnesium is flammable and used in many pyrotechnics. Titanium, in powder form, is also flammable, but more expensive, so not used much. Zinc forms the outer terminal of dry cells and is pretty safe in bulk form, but highly reactive as a powder.

Not defending the actions, just pointing out that we should be clear what is being considered and what is not. "Titanium" paint is made with titanium dioxide, which is exceedingly UNreactive.

[benburch]

46. Almost all pure powdered metals are flammable. nt

[eppur_se_muova]

96. True, but not all burn as vigorously as Mg, Ti, or Al. nt

[bananas]

14. 4 more votes needed to get this on the greatest page

otherwise it will drop off the screen by morning.

[troubleinwinter]

16. Uh-oh!!!!!

Currently, the CPSC is focusing on.... a wide variety of other common chemicals & metals such as: Sulfur, Aluminum, Magnesium, Titanium, Zirconium, Zinc, Magnailim, Benzoate Compounds, Salicylate compounds, Antimony and antimony compounds, etc.

Huh. Right here I have a 4 lb. bag of Aluminum Sulphate. I dress the soil around my hydreangeas to keep the blossoms blue.

Salicilates... Aspirin and other "non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs" like Ibuprophen, and tylenol.

Sulphur... I have a jar in the shed. I use it to blacken ("antique") the silver jewelry I make.

Permangenate... I used to use it in the aquarium.

Zinc... Well, that is some dangerous stuff. White artists' paint? Zinc oxide. Same with the stuff those scary surfers put on their noses and I put on my babie's butt years ago to prevent diaper rash.

[arikara]

18. I make our soap

The lye aka sodium hydroxide I use is one of the ingredients in crystal meth and they keep advertising for people to call the cops when they see anyone buy quantities of it. I buy 3 or 4 bottles at a time and fully expect the cops to come knocking on the door some day while I'm mixing up a batch of honey and goats milk hand soap.

They are chipping away at rights to do anything other than shop shop shop. They are banning potluck dinners in my hometown for sweet Jesus sake.

[lostnfound]

19. Potluck dinners????

OMG.

We need an island, a very big island.

[unpossibles]

117. how about one which reaches from the Atlantic to the Pacific

and has a couple of other nations on it also?

;)

ok, so not an island in the strictest of senses, but...

[madokie]

22. my mom used to make our soap when I was a kid and to get the lye

she used the white ashes from burning wood, I believe if my memory serves me right from soft wood like sycamore, populars etc. fill about a quarter of the container you are going to use with 'white' ashes then stir it up real good and let set until it has all settled, several hours. Syphon the clear water off being careful to not get any in your mouth and whatever you do don't disturb the ashes that have settled. Use that water as you would lye water. That is also the water she used to turn corn into hominy.
enjoy

[formercia]

35. Potassium Hydroxide

Terrorists can always get explosives. They steal it from the military.

[benburch]

43. That's what they do in Iraq. nt

[sybylla]

64. Potassium hydroxide (KOH) is more difficult to use in soap

and a bit more dangerous to handle in the home - or so I've been given to understand. I have recipies that have been converted to use both, but there are many more precautions when using KOH.

And where do you find KOH anyway? I've given a thought to trying it once to see if there is much of a difference in the soap but I think I'd have to find a chemical supply to sell it to me.

[formercia]

82. wood ashes

Plants primarily utilize Potassium in their metabolism, thus the Potassium Hydroxide when you add water to the ashes. There is some Sodium Hydroxide, but it is in the minority.

[Canuckistanian]

90. Potash!

It used to be (120 years ago) a major industry in the town where I live.

Chop down trees, burn 'em, mix the ashes with water.

[arikara]

65. Thanks! I remember reading about how they discovered

how lye worked. Something about dumping the ashes from the stoves in the same spot washing the clothes in a nearby creek and noticing that the clothes came cleaner. I don't remember how they discovered that mixing oils with lye made soap though.

[conflictgirl]

71. Thank you for posting that

I knew lye could be made from wood ash, but I didn't know how. That information might come in useful someday.

[sybylla]

91. I've been told that when an egg floats in a lye solution

it's strong enough for soap-making. That's supposedly how the old-timers tested it.

[sybylla]

63. I had trouble finding sodium hydroxide for soap two weeks ago

and feared they had banned its sale while I wasn't looking. When I finally found it at a home and building center, I bought 4 bottles of the stuff because I was making several batches and didn't want to be without again.

If they are putting lye purchases on a list I guess I'll just have to buy a bottle every time I go shopping, whether or not I need it.

I'm sure my Republican Sheriff would love to raid my house. On the other hand, the county DA knows I make soap because I sold his wife some a couple of x-mases ago.

Talk about nanny state. Why can't these "conservative" bastards admit that a lot of regulation is fine with them so long as they are the ones regulating.


BTW, they tried to shut down potlucks in my state a few years ago using food regulations as the excuse. Citizens, non-profits and the media made a huge stink out of it and they put an exception into the law for potlucks. My advice is to fan that fire. Past history has proven it effective.

[arikara]

102. Unfortunately I don't live there anymore

I just have the paper sent to me to keep up with the news. Its a small town and they are certainly having their problems, they're fending off a walmart too.

[benburch]

107. You must also be from Illinois. nt

[conflictgirl]

70. I make soap as well...I now turn to online sources for lye

I order lye online from Summer Bee Meadow. I'm not affiliated with them in any way, I just found them as a supplier of hydroxides for soap makers. You have to sign a release form to buy it.

I used to be able to get lye at stores here until it was taken off the shelves, and I was always worried that the clerks were suspecting that I was a closet meth manufacturer or something.

[benEzra]

113. My wife used to enjoy making soap from scratch...

strictly hobby quantities. She had to stop when she could no longer buy sodium hydroxide locally, since she's hesitant to mail-order it because some bureaucrat might label her either a drug dealer or a terrorist. That is a sad commentary on the state of things.

[lostnfound]

20. No, you are not the only one.

Having been an avid owner of a chemistry set as a pre-teen, I am very disappointed to find how chem sets no longer exist.

[madokie]

21. any freedom even if it is going out in the back yard where no one can see

you and take a piss is worthy of an outrage. I want all the future children to enjoy the freedoms we had before this illegal cabal hit the scene. I suggest that we roll back time to the elections of '00, any and everything done by this band of war criminals be undone. No if, and or buts about it.

[NMMNG]

23. Ridiculous

But then the RW has been working to end science (other than "Creation Science", aka Intelligent Design) what do they care if scientists, budding or otherwise, have chemicals with which to work.


Pretty soon this will be the only chemical we have available to us.

[LunaSea]

24. Wired article-Don't try this at home

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.06/chemistry.html?pg=2&topic=chemistry&topic_set=

Popular Science columnist Theodore Gray, who is one of United Nuclear’s regular customers, uses potassium perchlorate to demonstrate the abundance of energy stored in sugar and fat. He chops up Snickers bars, sprinkles in the snowy crystals, and ignites the mixture, which bursts into a tower of flame – the same rapid exothermic reaction that propels model rockets skyward. “Why is it that I can walk into Wal-Mart and buy boxes of bullets and black powder, but I can’t buy potassium perchlorate to do science because it can also be used to make explosives?” he asks. “How many people are injured each year doing extreme sports or playing high school football? But mention mixing up chemicals in your home lab, and people have a much lower index of acceptable risk.”
........
Ironically, a shadow of suspicion is being cast over home chemistry at a time when the contributions of amateurs to the progress of science are highly regarded. In recent years, citizen scientists have discovered comets and supernovas and invented tools for gauging Earth’s magnetic field. Peer-reviewed journals like Nature now welcome papers coauthored by auto-didacts like Forrest Mims III, who studies solar storms and atmospheric conditions at his home observatory in Texas. Personal computers, digital cameras, and other consumer electronic devices are putting more accurate means of recording and measuring phenomena into the hands of home tinkerers than were available in high-end labs just a few years ago. The Internet is the ultimate enabling technology, allowing amateurs to collaborate with their counterparts at NASA and other organizations.

[unblock]

25. i think i found the short list of things you can't have:

There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium,
And hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium,
And nickel, neodymium, neptunium, germanium,
And iron, americium, ruthenium, uranium,
Europium, zirconium, lutetium, vanadium,
And lanthanum and osmium and astatine and radium,
And gold and protactinium and indium and gallium,
And iodine and thorium and thulium and thallium.
There's yttrium, ytterbium, actinium, rubidium,
And boron, gadolinium, niobium, iridium,
And strontium and silicon and silver and samarium,
And bismuth, bromine, lithium, beryllium, and barium.

There's holmium and helium and hafnium and erbium,
And phosphorus and francium and fluorine and terbium,
And manganese and mercury, molybdenum, magnesium,
Dysprosium and scandium and cerium and cesium.
And lead, praseodymium, and platinum, plutonium,
Palladium, promethium, potassium, polonium,
And tantalum, technetium, titanium, tellurium,
And cadmium and calcium and chromium and curium.

There's sulfur, californium, and fermium, berkelium,
And also mendelevium, einsteinium, nobelium,
And argon, krypton, neon, radon, xenon, zinc, and rhodium,
And chlorine, carbon, cobalt, copper, tungsten, tin, and sodium.

These are the only ones of which the news has come to Ha'vard,
And there may be many others, but they haven't been discavard.

http://paul.merton.ox.ac.uk/science/elements.html

(tom lehrer, of course!)

[Neoma]

60. :)

http://www.privatehand.com/flash/elements.html

[Swamp Rat]

26. This doesn't surprise me at all.

Bushler is stripping Americans of their rights and freedom as I write thi... is that a knock at my door?

[Cobalt Violet]

27. Sounds like I won't be able to even own a paint set.

Or a book of matches (sulfur).


I wonder if that means I won't be able to make my own paints if I chose.

[formercia]

29. Reloading ammunition

was almost eliminated until the gun owners threw a fit.

Let them outlaw rocks. They can pry my pet rock from my cold, dead fingers.

[meisje]

30. Thermite to remove a stump- That's the ticket!

[mopinko]

31. what next? what the fuck next?

and liberals are the ones that want the nanny state? jesus.

[eppur_se_muova]

32. US is turning into the "Warden State". No sharp objects, no toothbrushes,

your cell may be inspected at any time.

[Fox Mulder]

37. My god.

This is a major freaking issue.

[Vidar]

39. We don't want indidual inventors--better to have "ethical" monopolists

like Monsanto, DuPont, Union Carbide, & Dow.

[MadHound]

40. And what's really ironic

Is that those people whom Bushco most fears misusing these chemicals for terrorist purposes are also the ones most likely to be able to extract their needed chemicals from either natural sources or commericial products. Outlawing chemicals does little good when one has the knowledge of how to get said chemical from nature:shrug:

All this foolishness does is discourage the next generations' interest in science, and prevents the home inventor from comeing up with the next big thing and shutting out corporate America.

[JuniperLea]

41. What about the metals in vitamins?

And salicylic acid?

[Beelzebud]

45. That's Bob Lazar's website. The UFO guy.

Very cool shop he has there, although, he typically leaves the whole story out.

He was selling kits to make your own professional quality fireworks. He tried to make it sound like they are going after a mom and pop hardware store. Once upon a time you could buy kits at that website that were advertised as firework kits. Now, while these chemicals should not be outlawed, I don't think it's fair of him to constantly leave out the part about the firework kits...

[benburch]

48. I found it while looking for a trinitite specimen.

Do you think the alert is bogus?

[Beelzebud]

50. Yeah I do, simply because it's been on there for awhile now.

And he only seemed to get concerned about the issue after he was raided for selling the firework kits.

The fact that its Bob Lazar makes me hesitant to believe he's out for anything but self-preservation.

[troubleinwinter]

61. Who in his right mind would want a trinitite?

[benburch]

68. "in his right mind"

There is your problem!

I love scientific curios! And fused sand from the very first atom bomb is just such a thing.

I also have a graphite block from the very first atomic pile (safely embedded in lucite).

[troubleinwinter]

69. I'll look around the yard & see if I can find ya a fulgerite.

Sorry, I got no nukes.

[pitohui]

79. trinitite is easily obtained

when you tour the site at trinity, while in theory you are not supposed to collect, our guide (an old man who saw the trinity explosion as a young boy) collected some small pieces if anyone wanted to take one

he said not to buy them in the stores, as ALL trinitite is considered stolen, as there is NO legal collection allowed by the fed gov't, but the gov't doesn't seem concerned if someone takes a tiny, tiny piece for a personal collection not to be re-sold

visit the trinity site and the piece you collect will have more meaning for you

public tours may be offered in april and october, the crane festival in november will also offer a tour

barring this, yeah, you can buy a small piece for abt $30 in some small rock shops in the area but i don't think it would be the same

[benburch]

87. When was this?

I had read that site remediation had removed all the trinitite to a waste site in recent years.

[pitohui]

92. this was post remediation and there is plenty left

this was a recent tour, long after remediation

you can walk around the crater and still find the little pieces of green sparkle for yourself although you are not supposed to keep them

it would be impossible to remove all of it w.out completely destroying the crater, which they don't want to do for reasons of preserving this part of american history

[benburch]

95. Cool. I'll be out that way next Spring. nt

[pitohui]

98. well don't miss the owl bar :-) and here are some dates for tours

in april 2007 it looks like trinity will be open to public free of charge on april 7

other dates you may need to pay for a tour

here is a web site:

http://www.alamogordo.com/activites/trinity.html#NEXT_TOUR_-_APRIL_2,_2005


assuming the owl bar is still out there, they might not look like much, but they make a mean green chili burger

bosque del apache is a fine refuge, although best in fall/winter for the cranes, i do not know when they depart in the spring

motels in socorro are super cheap, as is dining

bring twenties, it was a quirk of the area that even at the height of the festival no one seemed to know how to break a hundred dollar bill, so if you pay in cash bring twenties rather than franklines

[benburch]

101. Many of the cranes come here.

And blue herons too.

[pitohui]

77. bob lazar was a meth dealer, not just another UFO guy

mr. lazar has made a lot of claims, including claims abt what he saw of anti-gravity devices in area 51, but as far as i can tell, he turns out to be a meth manufacturer or at least a heavy user who had some serious delusions

don't tie your credibility to bob lazar

he is most DEFINITELY bogus

some say he was black ops/CIA to throw disrepute on UFO students, which may be, but whatever his motive he AIN'T credible

screw lazar and the saucer he rode in on, he makes everybody interested in the bizarre and the beyond look whack

[benburch]

88. Interesting.

Thanks for the information!

I'll do some searching to see if there is anything to back up his claim about cracking down on chemicals, because even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[benburch]

94. Seems like there are other companies that have an issue;

http://www.firefox-fx.com/CPSC.htm

http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/pdf/recall/01136.pdf

http://www.fireworksfoundation.org/CPSC-Handel.aspx

http://faultline.org/index.php/site/comments/another_front_in_the_feds_war_on_science/

http://crasch.livejournal.com/407389.html

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/03/04/us_bans_sale_of_chem.html

[pitohui]

97. have to admit it's been years since i thought abt bob lazar

certainly there is a crackdown on chemicals, esp. precursors for manufacturer of the amphetamines and their relatives but bob lazar is crazier than a craphouse rat in my most humble opinion

the UFO community was pretty much discredited when a major book -- it may have been "above top secret" but memory fades after all these years and beers -- relied heavily on "eyewitness" testimony from bob lazar which turned out to be pretty much invented or hallucinated

are you into the UFOs at all, ben, or you just happened across him by chance?

[benburch]

100. Not "into" UFOs...

Though I studied Astronomy with J. Allen Hynek, and I believe that many reliable people see things in the sky that they could not recognize and which remain Unidentified. And I think that there is some good science to be done turning those UFOs into IFOs.

But I don't see any reason to believe we are being visited by space aliens, and have good reasons to think that ANY starship built by ANY civilization would have to be the size of a medium asteroid, and would move between the stars at no faster than about 5% of the speed of light.

[pitohui]

118. it would have been cool to meet hynek EOM

,

[drm604]

47. Yes, it's a major freaking issue.

I had chemistry sets as a kid and I was into model rocketry. I think that both these things opened the mind and broadened the horizons of a blue collar working class kid. In fact I'm certain that was the intent of my parents when they supplied me with those things - things they had very little knowledge of.

Now, I didn't go on to become a world-changing Nobel winning chemist or physicist but I did get a comp-sci degree and I'm convinced that I'm more comfortable and successful than I would have been if they hadn't encouraged my scientific curiosity.

[hunter]

49. Big brother is only watching out for the children...

We're all children, dontcha know?

Be a good kid, shut up, and watch television.

[pitohui]

81. well many users of these items brought it on themselves

any person in their forties or older can tell some stories

my brother actually threatened me with nitroglycerine that i know worked, because he was able to set off rockets w. it, so he had definitely manufactured some sort of explosive

at my husband's high school, the local genuis manufactured nitroglycerine in a spray form and actually sprayed down the tile floors of the school, so that nerve wracking spots would "pop" loudly when you stepped where it hadn't been cleaned away

and we all know kids who shot off rockets without much concern for public safety or who manufactured pipe bombs used to blow up mailboxes

as recently as less than a decade ago, in my town, some local smart kid thought it a great idea to manufacture a pipe bomb that he used to blow up a metal mailbox, sending metal shrapnel hundreds of feet in a highly populated residential area near a school

some of us, the victims of some of this crap, are prob. happy that today's nerds prefer a good video game than a hands-on chemistry set, i see the argument for having chemicals available but you know what? peace, quiet, and my eyesight are just a little more important

it is sad, but the pranksters spoil things for everyone in the end

[hunter]

103. Ah, I see you knew me as a kid...

The stuff that went "pop" was nitrogen triiodide.

I never blew up mailboxes or anything like that, but the last time I played with explosives (many years ago, but when I should have been old enough to know better) the blast was so big it scared me off for good.

The problem is that the video game geeks often do things that are even more dangerous than the "crap" I used to do. The list of ways to kill yourself and others, both quick and slow, is endless -- things such as drunk driving, drugs, dangerous sexual encounters, etc. Sex and IV drugs were the biggest killers among nerds I used to hang out with. Almost all the gay "nerds" who were my friends as a kid and young adult died of AIDS.

My wife and I are both hardcore science nerds. I think when we were kids science was a lot more exciting than it is now, and part of the thrill was that it could be a little bit dangerous. A kid could feel the power in it.

Nowadays we teach our kids to be passive and afraid. There are too many kids who don't know how to make things -- everything comes to them pre-packaged and safety tested, or else they see it on a television screen. And much of what they see on a television screen is entirely unrealistic.

Mind you, from my own experiences as a kid and young adult, I am far more watchful of my own children than my parents ever were, but I would rather give my children the intellectual tools they need to safely explore the world rather than hinder their explorations. There are things that are off-limits in our family, but my wife and I always say why, and we can too often back our "whys" up with stories of grim personal experience.

Don't smoke. Don't do drugs. Don't be careless with guns, fire, or fireworks. Don't drink and drive... and so on.

[pitohui]

119. he he, so that was YOU?

i think you are the first person i told that story to, who actually knew the name of the "popping" stuff, i will have to file the correct name away in the memory banks now :-)

[MissB]

51. And science education continues to decline in the US.

Yeah. Just try to find a decent chemistry set for your kid. You'll find a whole bunch of candy-making chem sets, but not much that makes things go boom.

They have so sanitized science education already.

[lumberjack_jeff]

52. Biodiesel requires sodium hydroxide. Oil companies rejoice.

[ProfessorGAC]

54. It Requires A Lot Of Methanol Too

You can't make it with the little one quart cans you can buy in the hardware store.
The Professor

[sybylla]

93. That's unfortunate

My grandfather was a mechanic in the army in WWII. He talked about scavaging salad oil and any other oil they could find to run their trucks and they had no trouble burning just about anything at the time. Can't get much closer to bio-diesel than that.

[ProfessorGAC]

111. Biodiesel Isn't The Oil

If you burn oil, there are serious ramifications with the existence of fatty acids and glycerin. If glycerin doesn't burn completely, it can release acrolein (propanaldehyde) which is a toxic substance chemically similar to formaldehyde.

Biodiesel is the methyl ester of a natural oil or fat, which is formed by the reaction with methanol in the presence of a strong alkali to catalyze.

Without methanol, no methyl ester. No methyl ester, no B100, which can be blended with diesel fuel to get biodiesel.
The Professor

[anarch]

53. that is just totally ridiculous

Although perfectly in line with the authoritarian agenda to criminalize science and free thought. How are they going to outlaw chemicals, when everything on the planet is made of chemicals? That would be like making a freaking plant illegal or something. Oh...wait.

[Gregorian]

56. Not too long ago you could buy Dynamite at the hardware stores.

When Kazynski was arrested, I voluntarily dumped pounds of my potassium chlorate and other chemicals. We used to make fireworks. But I didn't want to be incriminated for having explosive materials.

We need to be very afraid of our rulers. This is not new. This has been happening for nearly forty years. I remember in the late 70's when underwater fuse became unavailable from most sources.

It's too late. The combination of population increase, and lack of vigilance (which amounts to the same thing as letting our population get this size) are what contributed to this. I know some don't believe that statement.

[MallRat]

57. You had me until "making thermite to remove a stump."

:wtf: :scared: :-)

[benburch]

58. It works great!

You don't have to make much, and it burns the stump down below grade level. I've tried other stump removal methods, but thermite is the best.

[pitohui]

83. what do you have against stumps?

you know, there are some jobs that don't actually require doing, like drying the dishes, if you don't bother, nothing bad happens

the stumps in my yard have never done anything to me to deserve being blown to kingdom come

[benburch]

89. They get in the way of things like above ground swimming pools...

...and the little ones are a problem for the mower.

[pitohui]

99. heh

well i'm too lazy to blow up my stumps much less maintain a swimming pool but that's what makes horse racing i guess

[Mugu]

104. Once the stump is smoldering good,

position a leaf blower to blow away the ash and keep it burning until nothing flammable remains. If done right it looks like a 4 of July fountain.

[benburch]

112. I'll have to try that!

Usually there was little enough left that I could just kick it into the hole and shovel the dirt over it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. Isn't this a violation of the 2nd amendment?

[benburch]

72. To the extent that one uses chemicals to make gun powder, yes.

But somehow I don't think we are going to see the NRA on this one.

[noamnety]

67. I had problems last year with my darkroom

I teach photography in a public high school. I left my supply list with the school and went home for the summer. I came back in the fall and none of my photo chemicals were there, because they couldn't ship them anymore - I guess the post office regs had changed. I had to drive around locally to a camera shop to buy what I needed. One more thing to do in my unpaid hours for work, joy.

[Kazak]

74. "I'm in for possession of HCL."

I can just hear it now...

But seriously, how can they ban these things. Isn't most of this stuff easily found in nature?

[benburch]

76. HCL is found in your stomach. nt

[survivor999]

80. And soon they will make purchasing

integrated circuits and quartz crystals illegal because one could build some transmitter/receiver that may be used to detonate explosive devices remotely...

[benburch]

86. A disposable cell phone is the detonator of choice.

You rig the blasting cap to a relay closed by the leads to the vibrate motor.

And with disposable cell phones you can buy at 7-11 with cash, there is no bloody way to trace it, assuming enough is left over after the blast to get the serial number from in the first place.

Cops and crooks know ALL about this already, so I am not giving anything away by saying that.

In other words. nobody is going to build their own detonator radio.

But you are right, that will not stop them from prohibiting electronic parts.

[formercia]

85. Welcome to the United Police States of America. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

105. This is just part of their on going program of dumbing down America.

Kicked and Recommended.

[formercia]

115. Available only from approved sources.

For sale only to approved customers. Only those deemed worthy will be allowed to learn how to read and write and only in approved English.

All bibles must be approved and editions must be printed in the English language approved by the theo-fascist elders.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

106. They shouldn't forget to ban ownership of grain

Look familiar?

According to OSHA mishandled grain in a storage elevator can cause significant damage.

Remember, "Guns don't kill people -- corn kills people."

[Kurovski]

108. Kick & R.(nt)

[NAO]

109. Could Practicing Alchemists be granted exemption on religious grounds?

Could Practicing Alchemists be granted exemption on religious grounds? The same way that Roman Catholics were allowed communion wine during prohibition and certain Native Americans are allowed Peyote?

If someone could document that they have been practicing "Chemical Philosophy" for some time, and have been actively engaged in trying to create the Stone, could their laboratory, with it's alembics and flasks and elixirs and powders be granted protected religious status?

Alchemy Web Site
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/index.html

[benburch]

114. I certainly think so.

But that argument hasn't helped the Rastafarians much.

[MGD]

116. Useful chemicals are easily enough extracted from source materials.

It still sucks though. Many of my fondest memories involve beakers, burners, and flasks.