A plea for cleaner language

[garthranzz]

I enjoy DU. It's a source of news, discussion and ideas. I have teenagers and brothers who know of my interest in politics. I have students and friends to whom I've mentioned DU. But sometimes the language does us a disservice, I think. True, Shrub and company are not only frustrating, they're execrable. But we do ourselves and the cause of rational discourse a disservice, I think, by indulging in profanity. In a way, cursing is a diversionary tactic, a type of spin akin to the fallacious distractions Shrub and company use to avoid an issue. (I recall here his challenge to the reporter who stated that N. Korea had more nuclear weapons now than in 2000.) After all, isn't it Bush who "gave the finger" twice, once before a TV spot and again when walking away from a question? Surely DU need not sink to his level of crudity.

Abuse of words has been the great instrument of sophistry and chicanery, of party, faction, and division of society. John Adams.

[blurp]

1. Profanity DOES make a point

Sometimes you just want others to know how riled-up you are about something.

[garthranzz]

7. I'm suggesting judicious use, and preferably not in subject lines

and I'm certainly not proposing censorship.

[Raster]

115. Really...? What would you call it?

[garthranzz]

119. Courtesy. Consideration. Good debating technique.

Asking people to be polite or at least more aware others sensibilities (a classic definition of liberal, I thought) is not the same as demanding or forcing them to use or not use certain words.

Although, since this is a moderated forum, there's "censorship" of a sort, anyway.

[IselaB]

151. Honestly. I mean for crying out loud...

You really think somebody asking people to tone down their language is censorship? It's a request by somebody who has no power to censor you. They're asking you to show a little consideration.

I'd dismiss you but I'm finding you're attitude is typical of kids today. If anybody even suggests that they take other people's sensibilities into account, they start whining. Spoiled, narcissistic brats, the lot of 'em.

[JuniperLea]

185. Spoiled, narcissistic brats

So you think condescension is any better? Any more mature? Pullleeeeeeeze!!!

[IselaB]

195. You're confusing condescension with contempt.

[JuniperLea]

198. Nope.

Sometimes they are one in the same.

[foreigncorrespondent]

188. So now...

...we are kids if we swear or complain about someone having the gall to tell people not to swear? I'm sorry, but I am adult who will not take someone telling me what I can and cannot say. Are you and the OP our parents?

By the way trying to make a point by insulting isn't really going to get you far.

[Llewlladdwr]

191. Thank goodness cursing works so much better!

N/T

[IselaB]

196. The OP wasn't telling you anything, child

She was making a polite request for more sensitivity. It doesn't surprise me that you're incapable of seeing the difference. There is only you and your special little self, and nobody has the right to ask anything of you.

[JuniperLea]

201. Your insults are far more disgusting than cursing

You might consider coming down off that high horse before you fall.

[IselaB]

215. It only looks like a high horse from where you are, kid.

And I'm not trying to change your mind. Wouldn't waste my time. I can't compete with television. I'm just venting.

[readmoreoften]

228. You are a prime example of how disrespect rarely comes w/ profanity on DU.

I would rather listen to an honest poster vent their feelings or experience and use profane language, then have to tolerate condescending, divisive, and vindictive flame warriors such as yourself who ridicule and jab at people who are supposed to be their political allies over ABSURD TRIVIALITIES like using a curse word.

Calling people "kid" and "child" to make oneself seem larger reveals a host of character flaws.

Learn some respect.

[IselaB]

234. I offer everyone respect, until they say something stupid

then if they want my respect, they have to earn it back.

[readmoreoften]

236. It sounds like by "stupid" you mean "disagrees with me".

There are plenty of people who say something "stupid" in one post, only to prove brilliant in other posts. Usually it's because the "stupid" thing that they said was something that I just plain old didn't agree with.

That's the whole thing. No one here wants your respect. And most certainly no is going to work to earn it back. You are just one name in a sea of names.

People come here and speak their mind. If you don't like what's in their mind, you can argue about it. If you think that they just don't have all the facts about a matter, you can give them the info that they need. But personal attacks on an issue this trivial are always just plain silly.

[foreigncorrespondent]

268. So now I am stupid?

Gee you sure you are at home here?

By the way I never asked for your respect in the first place. But seem as how we are on the subject of respect, remember one thing, you will be treated exactly how you treat others. I jumped on you for calling people who cuss children. I suggest you grow a thicker skin. Perhaps you could join me on one shift for my job? Guaranteed by the end of the shift you will either be full of tears or have a much thicker skin.

[JuniperLea]

259. Insult upon insult

How nice. And you have the nerve to...


never mind.

[Pooka Fey]

223. I love what you just wrote. You have, in 39 words, summed up America's

fundamental social retardation. I truly believe that the tendency to passionately and forcefully protest 'immediately' and to think or consider the views of anyone else 'never' is destroying this society. I very rarely post anymore, because I've usually found dialog and exchange to be hopeless. And I'm someone who tends to use more off-color language on DU than I would dare to in "real" conversations - for the same reasons as the cursing defenders - the current news makes steam come out of my ears. However, I have read and considered the OP's request, and found it to be reasonable and worthy, and I will keep her suggestions in mind in the future.

Bravo for taking on the children of DU. Teaching is hard work. ;-) I know.

[IselaB]

235. It's discouraging, for sure. n/t

[Joe Fields]

281. I'm 50 years old, certainly no prude when it comes to cursing....

but I have to say that it seems as though some around here use many words that; A) they wouldn't use in front of their mother, B) they cannot find a suitable substitute for, C) or, having just moved away from home are now, for the first time having the freedom to over-use, D) they enjoy for the shock value.


FYI: If you over-use certain words, then those words tend to lose all emphasis. Try expanding your vocabulary. It will do us all a world of good.

[foreigncorrespondent]

267. Boy you give "ugly American" a real meaning!

Child? Honey, when I was five I was living an adult life. I have never been able to be a child.

Difference? I can see the difference, when it is asked properly.

Special little self? I have never been special in my life. I have lived a very hard life and have the scars to prove it.

As for having the right to ask something of me, that pleasure is bestowed only to those close to me. Not people on a message forum who cannot handle the way people are.

[JuniperLea]

199. Insulting, yes

And condescending as well. Not conducive to encouraging another to change their behavior by any stretch.

[Raster]

200. You already did dismiss me, and marginalize me and categorize me.

Yes, asking someone to "tone down" their language IS A FORM OF CENSORSHIP. And my, you certainly paint with broad brush.

[proud2BlibKansan]

242. LOL you aren't?

I guess I need to look up 'censorship' in the dictionary.

[Sherman A1]

14. And can do so

by crafting the language.

[Cronus Protagonist]

36. Fuck, yeah!

Profanity is as legitimate as any other words.

[Marie26]

73. Sometimes

And sometimes it's just a lack of imagination.

[Wonk]

2. Good luck.

It's been tried before. Some people feel the need to swear in 'public', apparently, and resent others asking them to restrain themselves.

At least, that's how threads like this have played out before.

[JNelson6563]

3. Agreed! Especially in subject lines

And I just do not buy that nonsense that some are just so blind with rage they can't control themselves. Frankly it's incredibly childish.

Julie

[rodeodance]

9. it does get to be wearing at times.

[Habibi]

41. And predictable. Ref. post #36.

[Behind the Aegis]

10. Hey you!

:hi:

Haven't seen you about!

(apologies to the OP for this little hijack of your thread)

[JNelson6563]

82. Hey BTA!

Good to see you too! Been a bit busy this bein' an election year and all. And what an exciting one it is!

Hope you're keepin' cool and enjoying the summer.

:toast: Julie

[mykpart]

4. Didn't Clarence Darrow say something about

language being a poor method of communication at best, and we should use every word at out disposal, including swearwords?

[NashVegas]

271. "there are too few words in the English language that everyone understands

I believe the quote from Inherit the Wind goes something like that.

[texasleo]

5. We need tougher Democrats, not weaker ones.

If we cry foul at every corner, we get nowhere.

This place is relatively devoid of profanity, considering its size.
Let us not remove the fun by stopping at every word with which we disagree.
It's not productive.

[fasttense]

6. True, that is something you notice about freepers.

When you post the facts and they run out of arguments, they resort to profanity. I don't believe patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels. I think profanity is.

[Syrinx]

18. If you are speaking of literal "freepers," I have to disagree

A "Freeper" is by definition, a member of freerepublic.com. I could easily make that a clickable link, but I choose not to.

They have very stringent rules against posting "profanity." Yet, they revel in posting the most hate-filled vitriol that I've ever seen. That I've ever heard. That I've ever experienced.

And they are able to "accomplish" all that without "dirty words."

I don't hate the freepers for their language. I hate them for the evil ideas that they espouse.

Words are not dirty. But some ideas, and some people, are.

In other words, they value symbolism over reality. They value language over life. They are unpatriotic idiots.

And if good Democratic candidates value their country, and want to win, they will mimic my words in their upcoming campaigns.

Our candidates must call these impostors what they are! We must stand up against them and fight!

[Wonk]

24. Really? I didn't know that, re: profanity rule on FR. Guess that shows

how little I go there or read what they write...

[Syrinx]

26. it's pretty obvious

They put on a big show of being "big americans" all christian and all. I don't know how you could miss it.

[Wonk]

27. I've skimmed through 3 pages there, ever, iirc. Never even a whole thread.

They were disgusting already enough that I never consciously noticed the absence of swear words, I guess.

[Syrinx]

30. okay, that's cool

But they make a big deal about "bad" words. Bad ideas are apparently cool though. Unless the ideas are "liberal" or reasonable.

[trekbiker]

180. exactly... and well put

I've noticed that over at FR a number of times. They have very strict rules about certain behaviors. You definately have to march in lockstep in their fascist little world. Never mind that they are hateful to the core. Never mind the death and destruction but GOD forbid you utter any profanity on FR.

FUCK FR and long live DU

[Bluebear]

8. I can't disagree...

I am offended by it per se, but like anything extreme it should be used when passions run their very highest, and not cavalierly.

[undergroundpanther]

11. Profanity

at an idea a concept a behavior..is not verbal abuse.

I suggest we go after verbal abuse where a bully is using words profane or not to make a person become dehumanized.

To me, someone calling iraqis Rag heads is way more offensive than someone who's outraged and frustrated saying.. Fuck Bush and his damn torture games!

Cussing is only cussing because of what you have been taught by others to believe about words .Question that belief ask yourself why
you feel this way about what OTHERS say.And ask why your assume your offense at certain words entitles you to control others expressions of strong emotion..
A secret..
Cuss words lose the power to offend when you realize you are the one giving the cuss words the power of such offending significance in your mind when you personalize it,when it isn't even directed at you as a verbal abuse weapon..Waving a sword safely in the air away from people in a cry of outrage(cussing) .. is a different act all together ...than unsheathing a sword with the intent to deliberately desiring to stab someone with it to make them suffer(verbal abuse).And think about it an abuser does not need to say one cuss word to verbally abuse another person.

Verbal abuse is far more evil to human beings..than cuss words said out of frustration ,outrage or as descriptors of disgusting situations,abusive acts, anger at bullies or anger about a policy a politic a bad behavior or as a descriptor of ones raw emotions or pain..

[Sadie5]

13. We have used kindness

and that didn't work. The Bushies have stepped on us, at times squashing us into the ground. We need to be less timid and express ourselves. If profanity is what it takes, then do it. The freep posters on other boards think nothing of calling us names, some not so kind, so I don't feel a bit bad in using a bit of bad language from time to time.

[readmoreoften]

21. You hit the nail on the @!*# head with that one, panth.

I couldn't care less about "naughty" words, but when people attack people's character, I find it irritating. Especially the eyeroll smilie. I've used it before, but always felt like a 14 year old teenager. It's really obnoxious.

I like having every word available to me.

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. Profanity and obscenity have their place.

But they should be used sparingly--like a good sauce--to add zest and emphasis, not so liberally that the flavour of one's communication is drowned beneath them.

[A Simple Game]

74. Good point.

I would also add, don't use profanity as a crutch. If you need a word to express yourself, use a thesaurus or a dictionary, not profanity.

Every time I see someone using a lot of profanity, I say there is someone that is lazy, uneducated, or both.

[misternormal]

216. Profanity tells you the intelligence level...

...of a poster here at DU?

How psychic of you.

[Bretttido]

83. I agree with you, except for the sauce analogy

Oh baby I have a favorite hotsauce that I pour on everything. Tacos, sandwiches, salad, cereal, icecream... it's the best!

[wagthedogwar]

262. the whole bush era has been profane

SpiderJerusalem is bang on...strong words lose their power when overused.

...and sometimes a pictures worth a thousand words.

[pnwmom]

15. I prefer it in very small doses,

but I'd never dream of infringing on someone's free speech.

Besides -- it's one way to separate the bigger brains from the littler brains.

[JCMach1]

16. Perhaps we could have a FILTER function for such words

available to users...

[MaineDem]

51. As long as it's not mandatory (n/t)

[JCMach1]

64. exactly

[sandnsea]

17. oh for fucks sake

Another one of these goddamned threads.

As you can see, I do not give a rat's ass about the kind of language anybody uses.

I'll say it every damned time one of these threads are posted, I do not know ANYBODY who doesn't swear at least on occasion, and most within the course of every conversation. Every time I see one of these posts I honestly scratch my head and ask myself WHO you people are because I don't know you out here in the real world.

[Roland99]

20. This fucking post offends the shit out of me.

;)

[readmoreoften]

22. Someone in Iraq sewed the head of a dog on the dead body of a little girl.

The word "fuck" is not going to offend me.

[KyndCulture]

32. touche

[lostnfound]

42. Not necessarily true.

That was an article by a neocon saying that a reporter said that someone said that this had happened...

Far, far from authenticated, and probably sensationalist propaganda.

[Wonk]

43. I think the point was words can contain a lot of ugly without "profanity"

True or not.

[lostnfound]

68. Yes, I know..not meaning to be obtuse.

I just think that story has a certain air of "falsiness"..

[readmoreoften]

129. Well, yes it came from a neocon, but...

the neocon was confused about what to make of the incident. I don't know how it helps the neocon case that people are sewing the heads of dogs onto girls.

The story seems odd to me because: it takes A LOT of dedication and special equipment to sew the thick, rotting flesh of one thing onto another. I think it just may have been "placed" there and the horrified journalist experienced it as "sewn".

Maybe it didn't happen. I mean, who knows through the fog of war, what's imagined, what's propaganda, what's exaggerated, forgotten, or real.

[KyndCulture]

31. OP needs to be realistic.

That's censorship and DU doesn't support censorship.

How about you just don't click on anything you find "offensive"

sheesh. I hate these threads.

Oh and kiss my sig pic

[bryant69]

69. It's not Censorship

Censorship would be the OP asking the moderates to ban or punish people who used profanity or to delete posts containing profanity.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Llewlladdwr]

193. Ummm....

"...DU doesn't support censorship..."

No offense, but DU most definitely does support censorship. Posts, indeed entire threads get censored here everyday.

[Bretttido]

85. Curse words lose their impact when overused.. if for no other reason, save

them for when you need to make an impact.

[Fox Mulder]

109. Fuckin' right.

[JuniperLea]

133. Hell yes! You are fucking spot on!

I'm fucking sick and tired of all the fucking self-appointed censors around here lately!

[proud2BlibKansan]

243. Fuckin A!

You tell em, sandnsea! You fucking tell em!!

[w4rma]

19. I think some folks should realize when that are starting a thread that

cuss words make it tougher for some folks to recommend that thread to more reserved friends of theirs.

I think that cussing is rarely used here and most of the time it's appropriate. However I also think that some folks should avoid cussing when starting topics that are important and need to have eyeballs.

[readmoreoften]

23. "gosh dang" good point /nt

[sandnsea]

25. It's against the rules in an OP subject line

I think when they first started that rule, it was against the rules in the subject and actual post. I think that was relaxed after a while, but most people still don't cuss in an OP. There is about 90% less cussing on this board than there was a couple of years ago, and it STILL isn't enough for some people.

[bananas]

164. Where is that rule stated? It's not in the "rules.html"

Where are the rules about profanity?
I didn't think there were any at all.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

[sandnsea]

169. Hmm, that's interesting

I don't know that it ever made it to the actual rule list, but a couple years ago we had one of those concensus trial thingies where Skinner et al asked us not to use profanity in post subject lines and OP's. I don't know exactly what happened after that, but I'd always thought it had become a rule. In any event, that's why you don't hardly see it happen, I think most of us remember and when new people come aboard they see that it isn't done so they don't do it either. I guess you could post a fuckety fuck fuck fuck thread and see what happens. lol.

[bananas]

261. Well here is a thread with "shit" in the title and "fuck" in the body

I cross-posted someones post into a different forum,
it had "shit" in the title and "fuck" in the body:
"Holy Shit! There Was a TORNADO IN WESTCHESTER, NY!!!!!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1618827

Here's my cross-post:
"crosspost: Holy Shit! There Was a TORNADO IN WESTCHESTER, NY!!!!!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x60032

Both threads are still there.
Maybe shit is ok, as long as it's Holy Shit.

[bananas]

278. here's one with 31 votes and 91 replies: "Holy Fucking SHIT!!! It's Too Mu

Somebody posted this thread the other day,
it's got 31 votes and 91 replies:
"Holy Fucking SHIT!!! It's Too Much, It's TOO FUCKING MUCH!!!!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1615515&mesg_id=1615515

[neoblues]

28. It's been said

"Profanity is a feeble mind's attempt to exert itself forcefully" (this has been phrased many different ways). Then again, profanity can certainly communicate emotion and occasionally punctuate even reasonable speech. Curiously, profanity often weakens the speaker's argument by making them appear out of control, thoughtless, inconsiderate or indiscriminant (or...).

Personally, unless it's used poorly and/or to excess or revoltingly crude, it's not too bothersome. Yet it can indeed be interesting if used with great cleverness and wit (which, alas, is both difficult and rare). In the end, so long as it meets the standards of the community, the sky's the limit.

Free speech, alas, is not always pleasing to everyone. Kind of amazing really, how even people who agree on topic and point of view can suffer the struggle to agree on language.

[sendero]

66. I love that ...

.. silly-assed fallback. "Profanity is for those who cannot express themselves well." What a load of bullshit.

Being offended by profanity is the pathology. Anyone who is so mentally rigid that 'dirty words' upset them, they have the problem.

Profanity went mainstream in the 90s and it's never looked back. You will hear it in a large percentage of new movies, often in music and certainly if you talk to real people in friendly (not business) situations.

I express myself with vehemence because that's how I feel. I use profanity when nothing else will do. It is a tool in my verbal arsenal, like disambiguation or disingenuous or antidisestablishmentarianism.

I'm not giving it up.

[neoblues]

171. Of course...

Of course the use of profanity doesn't always imply the speaker is inarticulate; it's just that often that is the case (especially if profanity and vulgar language represent the majority of that person's content or is something they rely on heavily). Then again, it may just infer the speaker is rude. In any case, as noted, when applied properly, foul language can be very effective. Even so, if one can make one's point with satisfying effect without resorting to objectionable language, it's likely to be appreciated by a larger audience.

[REP]

29. Don't Be Afraid Of Words. They Won't Hurt You.

I was afraid this was going to be yet another plea to for cleaner language for the chilllldren, but I see you managed to merely hint at that instead of hammer at it. Good old Anglo-Saxon words like "shit" "piss" and "fuck" are just as appropriate as their nancier Norman cousins. A fear of certain words only belies a lack of knowledge of one's mother tongue.

[garthranzz]

40. I'm not afraid of words. They're my friends.

I didn't realize the thread would ignite such a firestorm. To one and all, I am not and did not suggest censorshp. I am suggesting we have a greater awareness of what words can do. Am I offended by curse words? Sometimes. Mostly, especially in subject lines, they strike me as juvenile. And there's a reason why Norman euphemisms are now normative while the Anglo-Saxon words you mention are considered slang, although in general Anglo-Saxon words run and rule the language.

I'll have to return to this subject, in a broader context.

(fyi, English is not my mother's tongue, but, at least according to one well respected university, I do not lack knowledge about.) :smile:

[otohara]

163. Depends on Who's Saying Them

if my son said "fuck you" to me - that would hurt!

[Minnesota Libra]

33. Sorry but I disagree that "cursing is a diversionary tactic",.............

....cursing, for me anyway, is a relief mechanism. Cursing literally helps prevent me from going and doing something law enforcement will frown on to any neocon within site of me. Believe me when I say I wouldn't have the same accuracy issue Cheney had either.

So, by allowing me to get a little bit of this frustration out of my system on a regular basis, in the form of cursing, DU:hug: is actually saving lives. Yeah, by now, without DUO8) I'd be looking at life in prison with no hope of release.

[YOY]

34. Sorry mate, couldn't agree less

Words don't hurt you. Actions do.

[Kajsa]

143. Words can hurt you.

They can absolutely devastate some people,
especially if they are cruel.

Think making fun of a disabled young person
with learning disabilities.

I'm speaking with first hand knowledge of the situation.

[YOY]

221. Never said it was a universal truth

But I assure you a stomping into that poor learning disabled kids head for not being just like his tormentors would have been a hell of a lot more traumatic.

I'm speaking from first hand experience myself.

[Hissyspit]

35. Hey! Watch what you say!

My favorite type of posts here at the ol' DU.

I guess maybe I should have censored all those lyrics in The DU Jukebox post that contained profanity. Those moving, expressive, caring, liberal, ironic, caustic, poignant, poetic lyrics of outrage and art and humanity.

To quote out of context a famous Democrat, John F. Kennedy: "Horseshit..."

P.S. I don't think Adams was referring to cursing when he used the phrase "abuse of words." And that statement is only attributed to him, anyway.

[proud2BlibKansan]

245. Me too Hissyspit!

One of the things I love about this place is the cursing. LOL

[Hissyspit]

294. Horseshit!

I love the sound of that word. What a wonderful word. The way it rolls of the tongue. Has a woody feel to it. :P :7

[bowens43]

37. If you find words more offensive then ideas...

..you have a problem.

[Festivito]

38. Oh, for the love of feces, bad sex, and absolutism.

We must use littler words to show how big we are.

I doubt I missed ANYTHING.

But, I've have been unable to suggest this site to some who would read and vote with us and now will not vote with us. That bothers me.

So, what should win:
Freedom of speaking through this website to those timid of bad words.
OR,
Freedom of deterring those timid of bad words.

To fight profanity is a fight against disrupters and self-loathers. Such a fight is akin to a war on drugs, a war on murder, and Bush's war on terrorism. It's just another never ending battle that occasionally deserves to happen.

I do wish we could keep it in check, while reveling in our freedom to engage it at will.

Feces, bad sex, and absolutism. Yippee!

[Laurab]

100. "Some who would read and vote with us....

and now will not vote with us"? Because of a few swear words? I'm neither a disrupter nor a self-loather, but I do swear on occasion. This administration could make ANYONE use profanity - and if someone cannot reason facts about the administration vs 1 or 2 people using "GASP" - profanity, I doubt that they would be voting with us. People swear - even my 74 year old mom, and my 76 year old dad resort to profanity sometimes when talking about this administration.

I find it hard to believe that with so much excellent, informed information on this website, that a swear word is going to make someone "not vote with us". After everything this administration has done, from starting illegal wars, to taking away our freedoms and breaking laws over and over again, someone is going to base their vote on profanity on a website? Damn - I guess some people have weird priorities.

[Red Right and BLUE]

260. Uh

I don't feckin' loathe myself. Nor am I a disrupter. Thanks.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

39. Personally, I don't indulge

in using profanity here. For one thing, DU is read by not only our supporters but our foes. Ever since I googled my name and found rw sites using my posts to degrade Muslims, I have attempted to be very careful in my wording here. Let's face it; one of the rw's tricks is to condemn something that is relatively unimportant (such as crude language) to thereby denigrate the entire argument that someone is using.

[Puglover]

116. Oh boy, the ole

"what WILL the Freepers think" argument. I could'nt give a flying fuck what those knuckledraggers think of DU and would bet the vast majority of DUers feel the same way.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

126. That's fine

but then I feel I'm not just representing DU in my posts, but Muslim Americans. At least that is the way I have found my posts from here used on freeper sites. Because of this, I feel I must make sure I accurately present myself so as not to be open to misinterpretation or distortion by the right wing.

[Puglover]

189. And how does

using an off color word open your posts to "misinterpretation" by the right wing? They are going to distort it no matter what you say. That is what they do.

[LanternWaste]

44. right or wrong...

As dear ole' grand-dad once said, "the more you hear a person cuss, the less you should expect from their intelligence". I think it was his way of saying that people who habitually curse to express themselves do so because they lack the vocabulary. Right or wrong, in my experience I expect cursing from the young and the under-educated-- anyone else? Well... they're the same as listening to Limbaugh.

[LeftHander]

45. I never fucking swear....people who do are assholes....nt

Ok...ok...snarky....

I couldn't resist.

:applause:

[quiet.american]

46. Have to marvel at how predictable the responses in this thread are. n/t

[Llewlladdwr]

194. Indeed.

Same on every forum I've ever seen though. There seem to be quite a few folks who just do not care whether their language is appropriate or not.

[patricia92243]

47. I cannot recommend DU to family/friends because of the language and attack

attacks on Christianity. I have tailored my own DU to suit my taste. I have the worst offenders on ignore, and that pretty much takes care of it.

But family or friends are just going to pull up the un-edited version, and I would be embarrassed.

[Goblinmonger]

94. Wow

I mean, really, really Wow. Perhaps you are looking for an echo chamber and not a site that is dedicated to the free discussion of ideas.

[Puglover]

117. I'll second your wow and raise you 10 more.

That post literally has me sitting here "wowing". Oh and Patricia, a heads up. You might want to add me to your ignore list. :D

[bananas]

132. I can understand her complaints about the whackjob atheists

I've said a number of times that the R/T forum should be made as invisible as the 911 dungeon.

[patricia92243]

155. Sorry, but I am a Democrat and believe in choice. MY choice is as stated.

[Puglover]

190. STRAWDOG!!!!!!!!!

Noone said a goddamn thing about choice Patricia.

[proud2BlibKansan]

251. Me too

In fact, I find myself wanting to curse even more now. Fuckin a.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

159. Wow...is it safe for the persecuted Christians to go outside?

What part of the internets is safe to recommend to my Christian friends?

[proud2BlibKansan]

252. WWJD?

What sites would Jesus surf?

Hey haruka! :hi:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

255. Hi!

How's it going? I've been pretty busy lately. Spent a week in training with Soulforce. They asked me to be a city organizer for the protests against "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" that will be popping up across the country later this summer. My court stuff still isn't settled for my West Point arrest...it should be settled on the 25th though.

[proud2BlibKansan]

257. Good luck on your court stuff

I was wondering what was going on with that. Keep me posted, okay?

I've been busy working on campaigns and having a great time. Going to Crawford in a month! Can't wait.

[readmoreoften]

230. Funny I can't live my life freely because of Christians' attacks on gays.

But then that might be attacking fundamentalist christianity by remarking that fundamentalist christians attack me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

248. Then don't recommend it

We'd hate for you to be frickin embarrassed. sheesh

[niallmac]

48. I'm a slow learner but I finally figured out that the PC

language movement was just a sneaky form of thought control.
If your language is policed and you have to second
guess how you say every word then you are being censored.
We all have our own standards and limits but it seems when
we get into the game of making them other peoples standards and limits...
well, history can explain the rest.

[Wonk]

49. You expressed that thought just fine without profanity, fwiw.

I don't think anyone is saying DU needs "swear police" yet, just that certain words are best used sparingly.

[niallmac]

225. Guess I should have peppered it up a bit but

I am just not a swearing guy most of the time.
Having said that, sometimes I want to express
my utter disbelief, anger, dismay and horror
at this world we live in and I cut loose. I think
it's more for my own therapy than anything else.

Appreciate your desire to maintain
civility on the board though.

[blueraven95]

50. Whenever this topic comes up....

I am reminded of a character in a Kurt Vonnegut book (and if I could remember which one it would be great, but I can't) who said that he never used profanity because it gave people an excuse to stop listening. I haven't read the book in about 10 years, but it stuck with me. I think there is probably some truth to that statement. Of course, I do curse, so I'm not sure if I completely believe it.

[Northwind]

52. Fucking ridiculous

Who the fuck put you in charge of deciding what is "profane"? So, I can say, "What a pile of feces (or perhaps, solid waste)" but for some reasons "what a pile of shit" is "obscene".

There is NO SUCH THING AS PROFANITY. It is just words. Fuck, fornicate, sexual intercourse, screw, nail that shit, balling, etc...all mean the same damn thing. Why is the first one somehow worse than the others?

Pull the fucking pole out of your ass and try to concrentrate on something that is actually important.

Or should I say:

Please remove the fornicating dowel from your posterior and try to concrentrate on something that is actually important.

[undergroundpanther]

208. fornicating dowel???!!

Hak Fucking made me Howl..

I guess you could also say Thou shouldest take the BEAM out from thine own ass before Thee complain about thy neighbors little verbose farts wafting in thine general direction.???

[Tracer]

53. I'd like to recommend ...

...Lynne Truss's new book "Talk to the Hand", for her excellent (and funny) discussion of today's rude and disrespectful behavior (including a chapter on the oh-so-common Effing this and Effing that).

[displacedtexan]

54. The DU rules are crystal clear.

The moderators are always watching, and you can always
email the admins if you have a complaint. There's also
the IGNORE function and the HIDE THREAD function.

On a personal note, I find this wingnut rhetoric (from tomorrow's
DU Blog Box column) much more offensive than DU swear words:

The blogger Misha of the blog Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler is one of the most linked-to and popular bloggers in the right-wing blogosphere. He's the 42nd most linked-to blogger on the Internet, and he is in the blogroll of scores of right-wing bloggers, such as Michelle Malkin and Captain’s Quarters Blog. He wrote a post today discussing the Supreme Court's decision in Hamdan and here is what he said:

Of course, this is the same Supreme Court that earlier decided in Kelo that private property rights only matter as long as a private company doesn't offer a better deal, above or below the table, to local authorities, so one shouldn't really be surprised. The unelected, black-robed tyrants have a long history of not giving a fig about the Constitution if they don't like what it says, not to mention a long tradition of usurping the powers of the legislative and executive branch by ruling by judicial fiat. . . .

Try doing anything to those mutilating darlings of the Supremes in order to extract life-saving intel from them, and then wait for the Supreme Whores to decide that you were "humiliating" them in doing so.

Five ropes, five robes, five trees.

Some assembly required.

I would gladly say to this blogger what Dick Cheney has said on many occasions.

[bananas]

165. Crystal clear - there's nothing in the rules prohibiting profanity

Here are the rules, there's nothing about profanity.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

[displacedtexan]

264. Exactly. From Rule #4...

People who are easily offended, or who are not accustomed to having their opinions (including deeply personal convictions) challenged may not feel entirely comfortable here. A thick skin is necessary to participate on this or any other discussion forum.

The bold part is my emphasis.

There is one DU forum, where I simply don't post because my "deeply held personal convictions" are squarely in opposition to most who post there. That being said, I would never ask the mods or admins to admonish posters in that forum.

I hope I'm making sense and not offending anyone, but it's just my opinion, y'all.

[personman]

55. Fuck this thread.

Fuck it right in the ear.

Do Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, George Carlin, seem like they swear simply because they are horrible with language? or because they lack self-control? These generalizations about people who swear,(I call them liberals) are 100% CONSERVATIVE BULLSHIT.

Quite frankly I'm not even sure I believe in the concept of "bad words". If there are "bad words" that we probably shouldn't use, they are n*gger, f*g, and the like. Words that incite people to violence against eachother

If my post has offended anyone to the point where they are considering ignoring me, then please do. My ideas aren't for you anyway.

-personman

[On the Road]

113. Excuse Me,

but did you just use asterisks to censor yourself in that post?

:smoke:

Sounds more like TriangleMan.

[personman]

122. My personal choice.

Which is completely irrelevant. If I think people should be free to eat dirt if they want, do I have to be a dirt-eater?

If we follow your logic, we'll never have legal gay marriage. Imagine if you had to marry a gay person just to support gay marriage? You are trying to use garbage logic to make it seem as if I've done something hypocritical.

"The difference between agreeing with what someone says and respecting their right to say it has been clear in non-fascist circles since the eighteenth century." - Noam Chomsky

-personman

[trekbiker]

184. i'm with you Manperson.... love the Chomsky quote.. n/t

[omega minimo]

56. You'll find not ALL here interested in "the cause of rational discourse"

"But we do ourselves and the cause of rational discourse a disservice, I think, by indulging in profanity."

[datasuspect]

65. the very LAST place i'd look for or expect to find

"rational discourse" is in an internet discussion group of any flavor, political persuasion, or topic.

oftentimes, watching monkeys finging shit on each other at the zoo is more edifying.

[omega minimo]

97. Then why have DU Rules and Moderators at all?

[proud2BlibKansan]

253. They keep the tattle tales busy.

:)

[omega minimo]

273. SO CRUDE & IGNORANT DRIVE OUT THOUGHT & EFFECTIVENESS

"The tattle tales"? If you have that little respect for the Admin establishing the guidelines for the site and for the Moderators who volunteer their time-- or maybe you think THEY'RE all fullofshit and the Rules are a big JOKE and the Mods sit around and mock the "tattle tales" in their private forum...........................................

That's an insult to all concerned. Do you think the Admin put up the Rules cuz they think it looks good or they HAD to for a sham?

Some of these recent discussions reveal how people who don't have the wit or self control to show respect on a board somehow feel CONTROLLED and IMPOSED UPON by those who do.

Ask Skinner if the Rules are a bunchbullshit and get back to us, OK?

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

286. If they were fairly enforced, it wouldn't be a problem

But if rules are applied to some and not to others, then you are going to get complaints. That's human nature.

[Spacemom]

57. I'm not afraid of Profanity

Words only have the power you give to them.

IRL I occasionally say Fuck, Sometimes I say shit, and frequently I say damn. I even say these words around my children. I even <gasp> allow my children to say them without repercussion. Why be afraid of a word?

Wasn't it in 1984 where control of the language led to control of the mind?

I'm not going to censor myself for your comfort level.

[guinivere]

202. Well said, Spacemom.

I don't notice an excessive use of profanity here at DU. I'm sure as hell not going to type out goofy crap like "gosh darn", "fudge" and such.

[RedEarth]

58. Good luck.....

I agree with you, but it won't happen....and this thread is an example of what happens when someone makes a request such as yours.

[Puglover]

118. When someone makes a request like this

they are the classic example of trying to change an environment to suit their needs rather then change their needs to suit the environment and it's complete horseshit. It's simple really, if you don't like something ignore it and if the obscene word that slips by your ignore puts you into that much of a tailspin you have no business on an internet chat board. Christ on a crutch. :mad:

59. a little swearing spices things up, this is an informal setting here

Geez.

[Jim Sagle]

60. Fuckin' A.

[Wonk]

61. "That ain't nothin but shit" - Jim Sagle, I don't know how many times. nt

[Jim Sagle]

70. Actually, I've tapered off considerably.

[lonestarnot]

62. Smarmy bullshit!

[titoresque]

84. I knew I'd see you in this thread!

:rofl: oops, I mean.... holy shit! I knew I'd see you in this fucking thread!
:rofl:

[lonestarnot]

161. How the fuck are you?

:rofl:

[DeepModem Mom]

63. I've posted at Democratic Underground about profanity....

and I'd like to respond to your post calling for less of it, garthranzz. There is so much profanity that it loses the impact it could have with rare use. It diminishes the site, in my opinion, and impacts our seriousness and credibility. Many, if not most, however, rail at any attempt to censor themselves, even if for the benefit of the causes that bring us to DU. And they glory in not caring what others think -- again, even if it works against our own cause. I address this in the introduction to my own page, to which I link non-DU friends and family, and I keep that page profanity-free.

Aside from that, the only thing I've thought to do is only rarely recommend topics with profanity in the subject line for the DU Greatest Page, where they're most visible.

We are not alone, however, as your post has already been voted on to the Greatest Page (and I've added another vote). Thank you for the post -- and I hope you're wearing your "flamesuit"!

[garthranzz]

86. The joy of being misunderstood...

Thanks for the support. I did not expect this response. I should have. I guess my respect meter outweighed my experience meter. But I've been on enough discussion boards (I date back to apa's, even before usenet) that I'm pretty flame-resistant (or just too old to be anything but amused).

Speaking of amusement, so many respondents misunderstood my post. I wasn't calling for censorship, as I stated in another response. I understand the value of a judiciously chosen expletive. But indulgence in profanity strikes me as juvenile posturing - at least when writing. In speech, in the immediacy of a response, expletives explode (some deliberately). In writing, however, when we have time to reflect and words must be carefully considered, expletives too often substitute for thoughtful expression. They're like the pat phrases Orwell railed against in "Politics and the English Language." Too often they make us seem inarticulate and crude, thus doing a disservice and serving as a distraction.

I'm working on a larger piece on the whole subject. In that I'll have a section on censorship, self-censorship and reader-response.

(My first post voted on to the Greatest Page. I enjoy the irony, given what I do.)

Thanks again for the support.

[DeepModem Mom]

111. You're welcome, and thanks for more wisdom, well said. nt

[bloom]

150. "juvenile posturing"

Well - some people are in that mode.

Sometimes I have thought that the "juvenile posturers" would like to make the board be a place just for them. Like a locker room or something.

I have a son in his 20's who thinks that DU is mostly juvenile posturing - so he's not really interested.

Me - I mostly ignore that aspect - unless I decide to confront it.

Some of the more misogynist stuff I find to be quite annoying. But I'm too stubborn to let stuff like that drive me away.

There have been long-drawn out debates about the use of words that are esp. derogatory toward women. Unfortunately - some people do not realize how women-hating they sound - or they don't care. And there is the problem that the language of swearing tends to reflect a lot of misogyny anyway. So where some people think that they are being "all grown up" or something - using the "forbidden" words - what they are often doing is expressing hatred for women. AFAIC - that has quite a history in the culture - including Christianity - ironically enough.


OTOH - I think it can seem rather condescending of adults to insist that other adults never swear. While - I know that you're not doing that - I suppose that some might hear it that way.

(And if this hadn't made it to the Greatest - I would have missed it).

[NashVegas]

272. If You're That Much of an Old Hand at Usenet

Then you would know exactly what reaction to expect when a newcomer or relative newcomer wanders into a newsgroup and asks its participants to change their behavior.

It kind of gives one pause for thought, doesn't it?

[datasuspect]

304. 10 roger on that one

like arsenio used to say "things that make you go HMMMMMM?!?!?"

[datasuspect]

67. a plea for more puritanism?

if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out.

[earth mom]

71. More often than not, there is NO better word than a swear word.

DU is my outlet. It is the one place I can swear at the bastards and enjoy it! :evilgrin:

When I was growing up, my father, liberal though he was, frowned upon using swear words and we kids had to watch our p's and q's or else. Certainly, I know that swearing is not considered the polite or p.c. thing to do and I watch my language everywhere else BUT here. However, given the horrific and hideous world that * and his band of thugs have thrust us in to, using words like "darn it" in protest is hardly adequate, not to mention absolutely pathetic and weak.

IMNSHO, if we want to fight these bastards and win, we must attack them on their level and use language they will REALLY fucking understand. :grr:

[kentuck]

72. I try not to put too much "cursing" in my subject Post...

So that it is not seen on the front page. I try to reserve any "cussing" for the body o fthe post, out of respect for the Administrators and owners of the site. However, that is a discretionary matter, in my opinion.

[Gregorian]

75. Then we had better stop using the word BUSH.

I come from a family where I can and have never sworn in front of my parents. That is the most offensive thing I've ever had to live with. It's called hiding.

People need to ask themselves why they find certain words offensive. They've been told those words are offensive. And they believe it. The same type of people who told them are the same type we are fighting off from controling us. Also, when those words are stopped, which words are next?

You'll find those words here because we are passionate about something far more offensive.

And there is flagrant use of those so-called offensive words. I find that a bit offensive.

[mikelgb]

76. Excuse my Freedom n/t

[Swamp Rat]

77. Censorship of words has been the great instrument of dictatorships

whether they be communist, fascist, or otherwise.

I too enjoy DU, especially because I am NOT, for the most part, censored for my words and my artwork.

[Pacifist Patriot]

99. Honest curiosity...

I'm not picking on you, I just find this an interesting topic.

Do you consider a post asking people to consider changing the manner in which they express themselves to be tantamount to censorship? I'm fascinated by perspectives on freedom of speech.

[Swamp Rat]

101. Sometimes

:D

[Bridget Burke]

78. I see very little profanity at DU.

Obscenity, scatology & vulgarity are much more common.

I tend to reserve the "bad" words for special occasions. And I'll hit Alert for an especially abusive post--that is, a post that abuses a person.

Abuse of the language bothers me. But that can mean excessive & incorrect use of latinate words, too. Tastes vary.

[Beetwasher]

79. Fuck Fuckers Fuckity Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck

Had to reply since I'm sure you're probably talking about the fucking thread that I started yesterday.

"Abuse of words has been the great instrument of sophistry and chicanery, of party, faction, and division of society. John Adams."

I don't think John Adams was talking about profanity, but rather the type of revolting, obscene, Orwellian use of words/language that we see coming from Republicans. War is peace etc.

But, whatever floats your fucking boat.

[titoresque]

89. great fucking post! n/t

[CatWoman]

104. God I love it when you talk like that!!!

:rofl:

:loveya:

[Beetwasher]

107. That Was Special For YOU!

:loveya:

I knew you'd see it! :hi:

[CatWoman]

139. !!

:loveya:

[dysfunctional press]

80. fuck that shit.

nt

[porphyrian]

81. Fuck that.

Ignore me if you don't like it, but no one tells me what I can and cannot say, or that my choice of words is somehow less than yours. Stick that elitist bullshit right up your ass.

[sweetheart]

87. I'll speak freely thank you.

Some people are afraid of words, but pay taxes to murder thousands of brown people
and steal their oil, god forbid words might offend.

[dogday]

88. Try having your only son in Iraq

then tell me how me how offended you are about things... Words, dirty words, profanity... That is nothing compared to what really is offensive... This war is offensive, the deaths of tens of thousands of people is offensive... The word Fuck, does not offend me, the word war does....

[JeffR]

103. This should be the final word on this topic

You've brought the discussion back to reality. Well said!

Sadly, this thread will probably continue to hog bandwidth for the rest of the week. But having read your comments, I think I've derived all the wisdom there is to be had in it. And I thank you for it.

As always, my prayers for your son's safety.

[SammyBlue]

112. Well put, well said. . .War is the ultimate curse word

Especially when it's followed by "based on lies." At that point, what was said was "fuck you, all of you and eat shit too."

[malaise]

170. The F word

http://www.immortalia.com/html/recitations/long-recitations/the-word-fuck/index.htm

[anarch]

90. I'm sorry, but I find some of your word choices offensive.

"Execrable" reminds me of a certain bodily function, "fallacious" is nearly a homonym for a word that describes a sex act, and "chicanery" sounds racist to me. Please clean up your own language, mmk thx.

[smoogatz]

91. Fuckin' A.

Good fucking point.

[Bretttido]

92. Profanity does not offend me in the slightest

But I have to agree with you. When people unnecessarily use it (note the 3 posts above me), they end up looking juvenile and turning off people who might otherwise be swayed by their arguments.

[Xenotime]

93. I guess you wouldn't appreciate this....

http://justin.justnet.com.au/rudestuff/uses-of-the-word-fuck.html

Oh the fuck well.

[AndyA]

95. Sometimes I do feel bad about not finding better words to express my

feelings. And I've often reread posts that I've written that would have been better had I waited until a later time to write them.

There are also times when specific words express a sentiment, feeling, or frustration better than anything else could.

And, of course, I use our President and Vice President, men of unquestionable intelligence and ethics, as a guide as to what is and is not appropriate. If President Bush can give the finger to protesters as he passes by, and if Cheney can tell someone to go F themselves on the Senate Floor, then I can only conclude that type of behavior is acceptable.

I do, however, try to maintain a higher standard than Bush and Cheney, so the point of this message is not lost on me and I will attempt to exercise proper decorum whenever possible.

[garthranzz]

96. Bush and Cheney prove my point

We know they are liars and abusers of the language, deceivers and frauds. That they "make acceptable" what ought to be reserved for a truly emotional, of-the-moment outburst indicates how carefully we should think about words.

Again, and again, I am not advocating censorship. I am suggesting awareness and appropriateness. I am advocating rational discourse.

So I will not censor someone who uses profanity, obscenity, etc. But I do prefer the eloquent and the articulate, and I want to be able to recommend DU freely.

[Puglover]

120. If the people you refer to DU are so

thin skinned that they would blanch at profanity and not be able to read through it to see the point I would doubt they would do very well here.

[Pacifist Patriot]

98. Profanity has its place.

I use it sparingly for shock value. I try to keep a clean mouth (MUCH better in public than at home ;)). So when I let fly with an expletive it gets noticed. Swearing just to swear will result in many people tuning you out. At least that's my experience. When you aren't known for swearing and a profanity escapes your lips people know you're overcome with emotion. I think the most awake my congregation ever was following a sermon was when I let "bullshit" fly from the pulpit. Not a snore in the bunch that morning! :)

So I'm saying I agree with you. I really don't see a reason for it unless it's for effect. And like any other use of language it can be an art in its judicious use.

[Beelzebud]

102. Do I really need to copy/paste the 1st Amendment?

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Fuck censorship. Either imposed by others, or self-imposed.

[CBGLuthier]

108. Not germaine

The 1st amendment does not matter in this issue one whit.

If DU decided as policy to ban all "obscene" words that would not, in any way, be a violation of the 1st amendment.

I do not support the OP's view but hauling out the 1st amendment is inappropriate to the discussion.

Oh, almost forgot;








Fuck.

[Pacifist Patriot]

137. LOL! What in the world does that have to do with anything?

Asking people to consider how they express themselves on an internet bulletin board isn't remotely close to our government abridging the freedom of speech.

Self-imposed censorship to one person is deliberate eloquent wordsmithing to another. *shrug*

[On the Road]

105. Garthranzz, You are on a Quixotic Mission

Crudity on DU is often well-placed, but it should not be indiscriminate. Not everyone responds well to it, and there's a public space that we all have to live in. Tailoring your style to your audience and the situation is common courtesy, even if you think the standards are silly.

There is a wide range of posters here. It is disappointing to find so much sarcasm and sheer incomprehension that there's even a legitimate issue. It's like nobody has a grandmother.

[bloom]

156. "It's like nobody has a grandmother."

Exactly.

Or they don't want her around?

There are plenty of grandmothers, grandfathers, people of various persuasions here. I guess we who stay are the ones willing to put up with it - or whatever.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

238. My grandmother has a worst mouth than the drill sargeant in

"Full Metal Jacket." I think if she can say, "You want me to put it somewhere safe? How about I shove it up my fucking asshole?" then she could read DU.

[wagthedogwar]

263. Full Metal Jacket soundboard

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/jacket1.html

it's a great site--try it, made me laugh like hell

[Pastiche423]

218. "It's like nobody has a grandmother"

Where the fuck do you think I got my potty mouth from? (Actually, she was my great-grandmother.)

[Midlodemocrat]

106. Profanity is the least of our problems.

Israel is bombing the shit out of Beirut; North Korea is testing missiles; The Iraq war is a complete disaster and thousands of innocents are dead.

Oh, and there is a dead bird in my driveway next to my van.

[Generator]

140. You forgot global warming, the end of the American middle class

and a dead Democracy. (who really "won" the election)


But it's the fucks that kill yeah in the end, I guess.

[readmoreoften]

224. Yeah, I'm embarrassed that this has so many recs.

FOR FUCKS SAKE! The world is crumbling! Massive amounts of people are being murdered with our tax money! And we're talking about cusswords? I swear!

[SammyBlue]

110. I'll swear if I want to swear and if you don't like it, don't read what I

type.

Your teenagers and their friends say worse when you are not around, as do your brothers.

Drop the cry baby puritanical nonsense and develop some resemblence of a thick skin. Part of the problem with this country today is we are run by a bunch of whiny wimps who cry to the FCC when they hear some singer say "damn!"

[Generic Other]

114. Invoking the curse of St. Ernulphus on all sinners

BY the authority of God Almighty, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost,
and of the holy canons, and of the undefiled Virgin Mary, mother and patro-
ness of our Saviour , and of all the celestial virtues, angels, arch-
angels, thrones, dominions, powers, cherubins and seraphins, and of all the
holy patriarchs, prophets, and of all the apostles and evangelists, and of the
holy innocents, who in the sight of the holy Lamb, are found worthy to sing the new song, of the holy martyrs and holy confessors, and of the holy virgins, and of all the saints together, with the holy and elect of God. ---- May he be damn'd--

We ex-communicate, and anathematise him, and from the thresholds of the holy
church of God Almighty we sequester him, that he may be tormented, dis-
posed and delivered over with Dathan and Abiram, and with those who say
unto the Lord God, Depart from us, we desire none of thy ways. And as
fire is quenched with water, so let the light of him be put out for evermore,
unless it shall repent and make satisfaction. Amen.

May the Father who created man, curse him. -- May the Son who suffer-
ed for us, curse him. -- May the Holy Ghost who was given to us in baptism,
curse him -- May the holy cross which Christ for our salvation
triumphing over his enemies, ascended, -- curse him.

May the holy and eternal Virgin Mary, mother of God, curse him. --
May St. Michael the advocate of holy souls, curse him. -- May all the angels
and archangels, principalities and powers, and all the heavenly armies,
curse him.

May St. John the præ-cursor, and St. John the Baptist, and St. Peter
and St. Paul, and St. Andrew, and all other Christ's apostles, together curse
him. And may the rest of his disciples and four evangelists, who by
their preaching converted the universal world, -- and may the holy and won-
derful company of martyrs and confessors, who by their holy works are
found pleasing to God Almighty, curse him.

May the holy choir of the holy virgins, who for the honour of Christ
have despised the things of the world, damn him. -- May all the saints who
from the beginning of the world to everlasting ages are found to be beloved of God,
damn him.

May the heavens and earth, and all the holy things remaining therein, damn him,
or her, May he be damn'd whereever he be, -- whether in the house or
the stables, the garden or the field, or the highway, or in the path, or in the
wood, or in the water, or in the church.

May he be cursed in living, in dying. May he be cursed in eating and drinking, in being hungry, in being thirsty, in fasting, in sleeping, in slumbering, in walking, in standing, in sitting, in lying, in working, in resting, in fucking, in pissing, in shitting, and in blood-letting.'

May he be cursed in all the faculties of his body. May he be cursed inwardly and out-
wardly. May he be cursed in the hair of his head. May he be cursed in his brains, and in his vertex, in his temples, in his forehead, in his ears, in his eye-brows, in his cheeks,
in his jaw-bones, in his nostrils, in his foreteeth and grinders, in his lips, in
his throat, in his shoulders, in his wrists, in his arms, in his hands,
in his fingers.

May he be damn'd in his mouth, in his breast, in his heart and purtenance,
down to the very stomach. May he be cursed in his reins, and
in his groin, in his thighs, in his penis, in his bollocks, and in his hips, and in his knees,
his legs, and feet, and toe-nails.

May he be cursed in all the joints and articulations of his members, from
the top of his head to the sole of his foot, may there be no soundness in
him. May the Son of the living God, with all the glory of his Majesty Curse him, and may heaven with all the powers which move therein, rise up against him, curse and damn
him unless he repent and make satisfaction. Amen. So be it, so be it. Amen.

[Cleita]

123. Now that's a real curse and not a word that is considered

bad language in any of it except the word damn.

[Generic Other]

135. Actually he used fuck, shit and piss like any good Saxon would

No Latin locutions for him.

[Cleita]

141. Of course because Saxons became the underclass when the

Normans took over and they replaced those words with fornicate, defecate and urinate, which mean exactly the same thing, but have been handed down to us as the proper language to use. Since the days of earliest written history, the language of the conqueror has replaced the language of the defeated and was called vulgar, dirty or whatever so that the defeated knew the place of their language and culture as beneath the conquering lord's language and culture.

This is why I don't like the language police. They are perpetrating this elitism and classism.

[Cleita]

121. Oops, here comes the language police.

If you can really define what is offensive language then I'm with you. However, picking words here and there that you don't like doesn't cut it with me. Vulgar language is by definition the language of the lower classes, that means you and me, unless you were born into an elitist, aristocracy like royalty for instance. It's how the words are used that makes them offensive, not the words themselves and I have had many offensive things said to me right here on DU without a single so-called swear word used in the sentence.

[Ms. Clio]

124. you clearly have no idea how 20th-century Presidents talk

but LBJ called Vietnam "that bitch of a war" and Richard Nixon called Herbert Hoover "a cocksucker," just for starters.

[On the Road]

125. If There's One Thing This Thread Has Demonstrated,

it's that DU is full of activists.

To an activist, courtesy is a vice and appreciation of different points of view is a weakness.

[Cleita]

142. That isn't how my dictionary defines activism.

If a different POV is erroneous it needs to be pointed out. There is nothing discourteous about it.

[On the Road]

168. Yup, That Sums Up the Philosophy All Right

the belief that differing points of view can be correct or "erroneous."

If you're ever taken the Meyer's-Briggs test, there's an exercise they do in large groups who have all taken the test. A group of four INTPs, ESFJs, or some other category are asked to leave the room, then be brought back in and asked to discuss a panel question. The audience is informed how each group will respond -- and lo and behold, it happens. The Js are asked to respond to the proposition "Things are changing." The response is four people saying Yes and then shutting up. The Ps, on the other hand, start a long rambling conversation which has to be forcibly stopped. (I know because I was one of the latter.)

The point is that personality type results in a fairly predictable kind of response. For someone with an activist personality, "Fuck. Shit. Goddammit. I'll say whatever I want" is a fairly predictable response.

Come to think of it, I'll have to do a poll on how people score on Meyers-Briggs. The results should be interesting.

[Cleita]

172. Your tests have nothing to do with challenging someone who is

presenting a faulty, erroneous or downright incorrect premise. Many people shouldn't debate because they are only repeating second hand what they think is correct and is the truth. And to get back to your activist statement. Activists are people who make things happen, whether wrong or right they are active in getting things done, nothing more and nothing less. To attach a bunch of other qualities to the word is not only disingenuous but incorrect.

[On the Road]

179. What I'm Saying (to Spell it Out)

is that a different sensibility is not correct or incorrect.

Similarly, there is nothing incorrect about describing an "activist personality." There are traits common among activists that can be observed and described. That would seem to be self-evident, but it's easy to observe the postings here on DU. There are a wide variety of styles, but the activist ones are overrepresented.

It seems odd that someone with a Tarot card in the sig line would express such a pedantic view of right and wrong. One of the chief things I get out of the Tarot is how the same symbols can express both positive and negative qualities, because in truth they are inseparable.

Activists are absolutely essential to social and political change, but their fate is often to be forgotten or written off as an embarrassment after they achieve success. Both are a natural outcome the same approach to the world. It even worked with someone as famous as Helen Keller.

Styles are not wrong. People do need to understand others, realize the value in their differences, and adapt their own style to work more effectively with other people.

BTW, on the Meyers-Briggs scale I am a borderline INTP/INFP. That influences how I respond. I would be interested to know yours if you've taken the test.

[Cleita]

182. Tarot like personality dwells on a different plane of

ones mental attributes. Fact and figures have nothing to do with right and wrong. They can be written down, proven or disproven and have nothing to do with anyones personality.

In the case of the OP s/he is assigning attributes to words that are simply words in a different language. I consider it classist. What is offensive language is how words are projected to a subject not what the actual words are.

[kiki]

127. You yanks really have a thing about swearing...

I live in London, and at a nearby underground station, there's an American guy who works the door. I was in there the other day and a homeless guy pushed through the barricades (to be fair, he was completely dodging the fare, and being abusive to other passengers to boot). As he heads out the door, the American guy yells, at the top of his voice, "Hey buddy, if I see you fuckin' pissing on the ticket machines again, I'll smash yer fuckin' head in for ya!"

Then, noticing that a woman is standing right behind him, goes all sheepish and says, "Oh, sorry ma'am..."


They're just words. We have to have some way to express how (freakin') angry we are at all this (stuff).

[Cleita]

146. I upset a local business owner here by swearing at him.

I believe he's a Middle Easterner from somewhere there, maybe Lebanon. I will never know because I avoid his shop at all costs. He almost backed into me while I stopped at a "stop" sign. I had to lean on my horn. Then he came and yelled at me for stopping. Then I let loose and yelled back that there was an effing "stop" sign there and he should look where the hell he's going before he backs up.

Then he got really bent out of shape yelling at me not to use that language with him. I believe it was because he's not used to a woman standing up to him regardless of the language. LOL, poor guy, I actually felt sorry for him.

[lies and propaganda]

128. I think you asked for this shit.

hahaha

[kwyjibo]

173. Yep... what better way to see the most foul language in one thread

than to ask people not to do it? heh.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

130. Having read this thread and the responses,

I'm wondering if part of the problem could also be generational/cultural. I'm 55, and when I was growing up one didn't use cuss words. Frankly, I never even heard the "F" word until I was 18 and started college. Since my first career was in elementary education, I tended to always watch my language to set a good example for my students.

The other day, I followed a youtube link posted here to a short film shot by young men pretending to be Bush, Cheney, etc, and about evey other word was a cuss word. It didn't offend me; it just made me realize that younger generations have a different idea on how to use language. I doubt if I will ever write out a lot of cuss words-and I doubt if those DUers who feel comfortable with using profanity will change, either. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

[Cleita]

144. I don't think it's the new generation.

My father who was born at the end of the century before last, (f he were alive today he would be over a hundred years old)had quite a Saxon worded mouth on him. If you ever watched Deadwood on HBO, the language is supposed to be the way they spoke back then and every other word is the "f" word, and this was supposed to take place in the second half of the nineteenth century.

[bloom]

160. I think that there might be a difference

in younger people thinking that it makes no difference who you are talking to - women, grandmothers, teachers, whomever - that one's right to swear and be obnoxious supersedes any ideas that you consider how others might feel about it.

Being an online thing and all. News rules.

Would your father have sworn the same way in a mixed, all age setting - as he would among his peers?

[Cleita]

174. Pretty much. He apologized to no one.

Yet, what he said wasn't offensive to anyone in the real sense. It was more expletives about occurances like hitting his thumb with a hammer and things like that. He would never had told anyone to "eff" off or called any woman the "b" word, well to her face anyway, although he might have whispered to me that a certain woman was a real "b" and to be wary of her.

[On the Road]

176. Bingo!

As far as I'm concerned, the setting is the issue here. I think some people have gotten hung up on a phrase like "the abuse of language" rather than the context, which is respect and courtesy for others who are different from you.

Of course, some people treat DU like Fark.com or a Yahoo sports board. Some treat it like a forum for serious discussion by a wide range of people with differenct sensibilities. It's not exclusively either one, and the two cannot be kept apart. Maybe that's the issue right there.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

192. I was born in 1951.

I had several relatives who were quite elderly-my grandfather was born in 1880, his mother in 1862, an uncle who was born in 1874 and participated in the Alaskan Gold Rush, and others who were born in the 1860s, 70s, and 80s. The worst word I overheard from any of them was "damn", and that was from the uncle while he was talking to one of his "young" nephews, who was 69 at the time! I have no doubt that they knew of the "bad words"-but the point is that they did not use them. They might say that Deadwood was full of people cussing, but I don't know if that is really the case, at least in mixed company. I got a different impression of how language was used back then from my numerous elderly relatives (and my mother, who said they acted the same way when she was a girl).

[Raine]

211. I'm the same age

grew up without any kind of cursing or swearing but I came of age during the FSM and found it to be very freeing. I don't think it has anything to do with being from a different generation since our generation broke so many barriers and language was one of the first.

[Misunderestimator]

131. In homage to you...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=5367121&mesg_id=5367121

[JuniperLea]

134. Fuck that shit!

I haven't had my mouth washed out with soap in 40 years and I'll be damned if I'm going to let some fucking self-appointed censor do it now.

I'm sick and tired of this shit.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

136. Fuck that shit.

We're not fucking using fucking profanity while writing fucking published editorials. We're fucking using fucking profanity while writing some fucking shit on some fucking message board. Fuck, for the most part, I only see gratuitous fucking profanity in the fucking lounge. It's pretty fucking rare for excessive fucking profanity in the fucking OP in the God Damn Motherfucker that is GD. The fucking profanity comes fucking later on when people start getting fucking heated and start fucking flaming the fucking shit out of that motherfucker that fucking pissed them off.

So, fuck that shit.





















I just couldn't resist. :evilgrin:

[Reckon]

138. If your goal is to reach out and pull Christians

away from the religious right, I would suggest keeping the profanity to minimum. Our goal is far more important than the use of a few words. In fact the problem we face is so important, showing a little self restraint is a very small sacrifice to make.

Let us try and keep the big picture in mind.

[Cleita]

145. You are half right there. We won't pull them in being ourselves.

We really won't pull them in ever even if JC comes down and tells them to. However, letting them define the language is what has defeated us to begin with. They mentioned on the radio yesterday that Dukakis denying that he was a liberal was the start of the liberal hate language. He never should have let the RW define the language.

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cleita]

175. Don't blame the crucified for what is being done in his name,

but I get what you are saying.

[proud2BlibKansan]

254. Well pulling Christians from the religious right isn't a goal of mine

Not in the fucking least. I also don't remember reading that on the homepage at DU. Did I miss something?

[Reckon]

274. Yeah, you missed something.

Dems take pride in not being bigots.

[proud2BlibKansan]

287. What do you mean by that?

Are you accusing me of being a bigot?

[Reckon]

289. I feel this issue is extremely important!

I'm saying I am a Dem and I'm not going to discriminate because they are Christians. We can't afford to because one day we might be out numbered by them.

Surveys show a very large percentage of Americans consider themselves Christian and many are voting righty. I believe they are being misguided and USED by the right-wing! I see great danger in the cult-like programs they are using on our youth, like BattleCry concerts -- Please read: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051406G.shtml

It is a form of brainwashing and for this reason I feel the need to reach out to them while we still can.

If the right is able to privatize edu, get to our children at a very young age, indoctrinate them into their brand of hate religion, the ball game will be over. Edit Note: Private schools do not have the same separation of church and state as our current edu system.

This thread is related to this : John Dean, Proto-Fascism and the Third Wave

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2723523&mesg_id=2723523

[proud2BlibKansan]

291. I am not discriminating against Christians!!

I think it is a waste of our efforts to try to pull them from the far right. Far right Christians are NOT progressive. They are NOT going to vote like progressives. Therefore, I refuse to waste my time 'recruiting' them. Does that mean I am a bigot? Of course not, I just see no use in working at pulling them into our tent. I would never push them out, though. And I believe we should reach out to them. I just think it is a pipe dream to believe we can take them back from the clutches of the right. Ain't gonna happen. Read Lakoff who talks about the main philosophical differences between the far fight and progressives. Then you will understand we will never be in one tent.

If you want to make our progressive group larger, a far more realistic goal is to work at registering the far left, many of whom don't vote. Many of the peace activists I know do not vote. Single women don't vote. Many gays feel disenfranchised and don't vote. Minorities don't vote.. Recruit to the left and those newly registered voters will vote for progressive candidates. THAT is a worthwhile endeavor.

[Reckon]

292. Yes, I understand who I should register and I agree,

it's the most important thing we can do. And no, I'm not going to waste my time registering a righty if that's what you're thinking.

I'm referring to chipping away at right-wing support. Shine a little light, drive a wedge, divide and... I've swung my share of voters -- that's a two vote swing. Just sharing news and well written articles they would've never read otherwise. Sheeple are simply not very well informed and this can be done online.

Anyway, we all have to work in many different areas. I just happen to be Christian -- I fit in this tent just fine. :)

To each his own. Live and let live.

[Dervill Crow]

147. Sometimes nothing less than "WTF?!" will express my feelings.

:banghead:

I taught Sunday School for years and work as a proofreader, so it's not that I'm lacking in language skills or a sense of propriety. * and his minions make me batshit crazy.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

148. Exactly.

I don't believe that foul language means a person lacks language skills. Sometimes, it's just an appropriate way to accent a point. Honestly, the people I know with the dirtiest mouths all work with writing somehow. English professors, writers, et cetera. It doesn't mean they have "therefore, the hypothesis that fucking Christopher Marlowe was killed in a fucking bar brawl, due to a really fucking deadly stab wound to the eye should be given some fucking reconsideration" in their dissertations.

[garthranzz]

166. Yeah, but that's already a euphemism

Like FUBAR - Fouled Up Beyond All Repair - but everyone substitutes for the Fouled.

[Dervill Crow]

290. No, it's not the euphemism when it comes out of my mouth. n/t

[Zhade]

149. Not only no, but FUCK NO.

:D

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

152. I support this plea. And have a thought to offer.

Swearing and crude language may be offensive to some folks with more conservative views, I mean I know it is.

There are others of us however with trauma histories who are not offended, but are triggered by some of it.

The triggering can range from flashbacks to less intense but still unpleasant feelings and memories.

Just another factor to consider, do with it what you wish.

[proud2BlibKansan]

256. So we have to leave our potty mouths at home to appease the anxious DUers?

This thread is eye opening. First I hear someone's family is offended, then I read that we are supposed to be bringing the Christians back from the religious right and now I learn my cursing may trigger a flashback.

Knock! Knock! Am I in a twilight zone or on DU??

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

296. If you can't differentiate the various circumstances, if you have

no understanding of PTSD, flashbacks then I guess your reply makes sense.

"Anxious DU'ers" is a very dismissive way to describe the people I refer to.

But go ahead and swear and curse use your potty mouth to your heart's content. You have every right to.

Asking for consideration isn't the same as taking away a right.

Shit, do whatever the fuck you want to!

[Penndems]

154. Passions run high here on DU, garthranzz

Sometimes the only way to encapsulize one's frustration and anger is in the form of a few good cuss words.

I'll do my best in the future to control my "French". ;)

[troubleinwinter]

157. I enjoy the freedom and adultiness. Those who don't curse are forgiven.

[fishnfla]

158. I'm all in nt

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

162. I Fucking Sponged The Shit Out Of My Goddamn Fuckin Sink Earlier.

It sparkles now.

How was that? :P

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

177. It'd be a whole lot fucking better if it..

If it was fucking sparkling now.

There. That's fucking better.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

178. Thanks

;-)

[Crazy Guggenheim]

207. Watch your God damn language at the fucking DemocraticUnderground.

Please! Go talk to that foulmouth shit at Democratic Fucking Warrior! Jesus Christ!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

210. Fine, maybe I fucking will, you fuck!

[leesa]

167. What do you mean, "Abuse of words"? They ARE words!

Excellent words. I love curse words.

[Reckon]

181. I guess inviting Christians

to come here and educate themselves about the Bu$h Admin is not a good idea.

[Warren DeMontague]

183. Ah. It must be "Net Nanny" time, again.

http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/innocenceabused.htm



Hey mac- if you don't like subject lines with "fuck" in them, then don't put "fuck" in your subject line.

God did not place you on the Earth to police other people's discourse.

[struggle4progress]

186. I can't (foamy suds) imagine what the (expletive deleted) you're ..

.. (sudsy foam) talking about.

[McCamy Taylor]

187. Hell no!@%$^&*

[bloom]

213. I like using

@&^%#@& ^&%@% %$%#!!!

and leaving it up to people's imagination.


But sometimes I go on a binge if I'm really pissed off.

[B Calm]

197. Speaking about Republicans makes me want to cuss something

fierce!

[qanda]

203. I totally agree

Sometimes I have to hide my screen when my young children are behind me. Some of the words are so vile and unnecessary.

[Raster]

205. So. Says. You. You don't like profanity? Then don't use it.

It's that simple. And for the record, I find very little profanity to be "vile." It's just words. The vileness, in my humble opinion, is the audacious attitude of others that insist I use a vocabulary they approve of.

[qanda]

214. Well, let's just say language that my 8 year old shouldn't be using

People are free to use whatever language they want.

[Cleita]

227. Your eight year old already knows all those words.

When the creators of South Park were asked why their cartoon kids were so foul-mouthed, they replied that it was because that was the way little kids talk when there are no adults around. And it's true. I remember what we talked about when the grownups weren't around.

[qanda]

265. I love how people on DU know so much about my kids

It's just amazing.

[Cleita]

275. Get off your high horse.

I never said I knew about your kids personally, just kids in general at that age. I'm sure your little darlings are perfect.

[qanda]

280. I'm not on a high horse

Never said my kids were perfect, just that you don't know them so don't tell me what they know.

[Cleita]

283. I don't know your kids but I wouldn't brag about their language

purity just yet. Unless you have had them locked in a closet without any contact with the outside world, it very unlikely that they haven't learned every word that is spoken by people on a regular basis as well as the meaning of those words. Also, why would you allow an eight year old access to DU? It's for adults and politically minded teens, not young children.

[qanda]

284. Did you even bother to read my original post

Or are you just trying to be difficult? You say I'm on a high horse and then accuse me of letting my children have access to DU. I don't even understand what your point is in responding to me.

On Edit: If you'll go back to the message you responded to, I said that it's language that my 8 year old *shouldn't* be using so again I don't understand why you found the need to respond in the way you did.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

219. Oh please...

Your innocent, young children aren't going to learn "fuck" and "shit" from reading it on DU. They're going to learn it from you, some random person saying it, the tv, or their friends.

[qanda]

222. Whatever

Don't tell me what my children will learn and when they will learn it-- you don't know me or my children.

[treestar]

204. Oh. My. God.

This post of so effing ridiculous.

Big brother is taking over, we are witnessing the destruction of constitional government, and you're worried about profanity!

#*(*$*#(@(#$*&$#*(*#$
@*#&*%#($&$#*($)#(@*$&!!!!!!

This is absurd! I'm series!!!111111111111

[Ron Green]

206. I always told my students, whether in middle school or in maximum security

prison (I've taught in both), that the "F" word and a few others have such power that they should learn to use them carefully, lest their casual use diminish the students' power of expression. After all, when you've use the "F" word dozens of times in casual conversation, what do you do when you need to express a strong emotion? Talk louder?

Of course to be more judicious in the use of "fuck" means you have to have lots more interesting words at your command, which is not a bad idea.

[undergroundpanther]

212. So?

I'll say fuck when it fits and something else when fuck won't do,How about shit,or goddammit?? ..When I POST on an internet forum tell me HOw can I yell louder??..BIGGER TYPE?
We are on a forum expressing through type. TYPE..Type it's LIMITED in how certain kinds of emotion is expressed..
What the fuck do you expect ,if you don't like reading cuss words the bible says pluck out your eyes. So you are offended.ever notice ignore buttons use em.or grow up and deal with the fact not everyone speaks in your style. That's part of coping with diversity.

Some kinds of diversity will make you uncomfortable and when that happens you need to ask YOURSELF why YOU are tweaking.I am not responsible for dancing on eggshells to avoid YOUR reactions to certain mystically overvalued words.. you invested with such power to censor,you.I won't censor myself for you. Sorry.

Verbal abuse is a deliberate word weapon and it need not be made of"cuss words" to hurt. But someone cussing in frustration at a policy or public figures behavior is not a word weapon if it is not aimed and designed to tear a person down personally as in personal attack... Go after verbal abusers ,spank them ,and quit being a net censor because censorship is controlling and it is an abusive little game some bullies play to control others voices so they can feel comfy about them self. Lame"morality "pleas to encourage others to stop the profanity that offends YOU are all narcissistic driven most of the time.. And sir,you need to learn to be responsible for maintaining YOUR own verbal comfort zones. I can't do that for you and I will not do that for you. Use the ignore button like a responsible adult.That's what it's for Jeezus fucking Christ!!

http://www.unknownnews.org/0512021201cusswords.html

[Ron Green]

282. I'm not sure who you're resonding to.

????????

:shrug:

Anyway, rock on.

[Cleita]

229. Actually, I always found the opposite was true. When I really

wanted to get someone's goat, I used the most ostentatious and multi-syllable words I could think of. My co-workers always knew when I was angry. They would say, "Uh, Oh, she's mad. She's talking like a dictionary again."

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

240. Oh man, I use that tactic with my mom.

She's one of those people that freaks out if she hears "fuck" or "shit." She'll rant that it makes the person that said it sound stupid & low-class. So then I'll crack out my SAT words and confuse her. Of course, she also gave up arguing politics & religion with me a long time ago, as I was the one actually informed.

[Raine]

209. Fuck NO

I'm an adult and I enjoy cursing and this is one place I can let it all out over the MISadministration. Plus I came of age during the FSM so I'm not changing. :hippie:

[slay]

217. There is NO SUCH THING AS PROFANITY. They are only words.

Why would you, or anyone, allow others to tell you that certain words, dictated by those in power, are specifically "bad"? They are usually just 4 letters put together, yet we let others tell us that that specific 4 letter combination is somehow "bad" or "wrong". Sorry. That's bullshit. And what it really is is censorship. While I may agree that points can indeed be made without using certain words, I would NEVER try to tell others they should not use certain words.

[New Government]

220. The language? It's A LOT of high school kids who want to be "cool" nt

[BlooInBloo]

226. Gee - I bet no-one could fucking predict how this would fucking go...

[Wonk]

232. See post #002, lol. nt

[readmoreoften]

231. The "Abuse of Words" Adams is talking about is not cuss words

it's what Fox News does.

[Old and In the Way]

233. I tend to regulate the swear words in my typing.

I guess it just sems odd to type the "fuck" or "shit" in course of making a point. It flows more naturally in spoken language, but it just seems wierd typing it out. If I was to look at my "f" quotient over time (that'd be the use of the word "fuck" or some varient of the word in a typical sentence), I probably peaked somewhere in high school. As I got older, starting working, had kids, and grew up...my f-quotient has opretty much dropped to nil. I just save it for special occaisions...like when I pound my thumb with a hammer.

I understand your point about perceptions. Yes, it is a free speech issue and I guess I don't want to see word nannies flagging certain words here. OTOH, we collectively don't do ourselves a favor if we want to be taken seriously- but frame our language in the context of a massive HS locker room. We give the opposition an easy out by focusing on the language we use rather than the ideas we believe and convey.

[lonestarnot]

237. Are we still cursing up a storm on this thread. Well curse me

some fucking rain over here! I'm fucking hot, dry and parched!

[lonestarnot]

239. fuck it. fuck it fuck it. Everytime I think this fucking thread has

breathed its last breath, it flys the fuck back up.

[proud2BlibKansan]

241. Then don't curse

Or as a wise man once told me - Watch your fucking language.

As for the rest of us, it is indeed possible to engage in "rational discourse" and throw in a few curse words.

[lonestarnot]

244. Oh fuck it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

246. What's next?

A thread objecting to the smilies that cuss? Like this one -> :wtf:

:rofl:

[lonestarnot]

249. objecting that you are using the same fingers on that keyboard

that you wiped your butt with now you just settle the fuck down immediately! I'm telling my Mom! :evilgrin: You don't want her ass after you, trust me! LOL :rofl:

[Kurovski]

247. This made me think of that old detergent jingle:

"I'm glad All-Fab has whitening-boosting borax in you!"

I cleaned up my language somewhat a while back--out of courtesy and boredom--but I love me my swears. However, a message board is not a city council meeting or the church bulletin.

I look at the good and imaginative use of vile, dismaying language as a sign of refinement, deep thought combined with passion, and an indicator that a person is fairly well-read.

Funny world, ain't it? Same things to hear and see, different brains processing it all.

Edit: The John Adams quote is not particularly applicable in this case. It would seem to be a reference to dissembling and manipulation.

[lonestarnot]

250. Very fucking fun!

[Kurovski]

285. Shit, yes!

:hi:

[Hippo_Tron]

258. I think that arguments are better when they can be made without profanity

However I am also of the belief that foul language isn't really hurting one and doesn't really present a problem. The exception of course is racial or ethnic slurs because using those words in an offensive context goes directly against progressive ideals.

[NashVegas]

266. "In a way, cursing is a diversionary tactic,"

So ... why are you creating a diversion again?

[lynne]

269. I usually skip posts that are full of profanity -

- especially if it's F this and F that. I figure the poster is responding out of anger and I just don't need any of that. If they are trying to make a valid point, its lost on me and I doubt I'm the only one.

[Cleita]

276. And that's the way it should be. If you don't like it don't read it. n/t

[Quixote1818]

300. If someone is using the word Fuck they probably are pissed off

but anger does not necessarily equate to a poor reasoned response. Anger is a legitimate emotion and sometimes the word "Fucking" is the perfect expression for such intense anger. For example a 100,000 deaths in Iraq is Fucking infuriating!!!!

Or would you prefer something less poignant?

[Vinca]

270. Profanity is the reason I started coming to DU.

Not that I swear all that much, but damn it! I want to participate in discussions that aren't white washed by moderators. There are 2 types of profanity: well placed and gratuitous. Most here is well placed.

[Phillycat]

277. I'll be happy to stop cursing when those motherfuckers are impeached

The entire Middle East is on fire and thousands have died in Iraq and you're worried about the word "fuck". Priorities for chrissake!

[ScreamingMeemie]

279. It doesn't bother me when used sparingly and to make a point...

But, when one uses it in each and every post, I find myself questioning their intelligence.

A few swear words are fine.

[dorkulon]

288. The hell with children

Why is it that people have kids, and suddenly everything in the world must be acceptable to an 8-year-old? This site isn't for 8-year-olds, just like "NYPD Blue" or Anais Nin (or Dostoyevski for that matter). The last I heard, adults still run the world, and we like what we like.

The whole attitude--my kids watch TV, so no one should put anything on TV that I don't want them to see or hear--which you're trying to apply to the Internet now, puts the cart before the horse. This world is for the grown-ups; the kids are just doing time until they get to be grown-ups too. I'm a grown-up, and if I want to say "shit" I will, thank you very much.

Christ, the next thing you'll be asking for is that we refrain from making references to the apochryphal nature of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Think of the children!

[ecstatic]

293. a lack of respect

When someone I barely know starts cursing during a conversation I view it as a lack of manners and respect for my feelings. It's not the cursing that is offensive to me--the offensive part is that this person did not care enough to use clean language *just in case* I found excessive cursing to be offensive.

Not saying that I don't curse, because I have and do. In general I think its rude to curse around someone you don't know well because you never know how that person will take it, it usually makes you look bad too. I just look at some of the posts here and am shocked at how some posters went out of their way to curse in their responses.

[Reckon]

297. Well said... nt

[fishnfla]

295. It was actually intelligent around here for a few days, kick

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

298. Yea, that was the day or 2 (we thought it'd never end we'd sing and dance)

Your sig is good. I daresay people mostly debate to prove they are right.

IMO the better course in everyday discourse, vs public political debates like Presidential etc, would be to seek knowledge and understanding.

Robert Kennedy (the father of the guy who is so active now) wrote a book "To Seek A Newer World."

It went along with the Emerson quotation he often invoked, to the effect: Some people see things as they are and ask why, I see things that can be and ask Why not?

[Quixote1818]

299. Ironic that this thread has probably more profanity than any other thread

in DU history.

"Bad Words" are objective. DU is a watering hole where we come to vent and be ourselves. To take out profanity here is a losing cause. I grew up in a house where my parents allowed me to cuss and I cuss less than almost all my friends who were not allowed to cuss. Telling someone they cant do something is bound to backfire!

[Berserker]

301. Clean language

to you is the way to go and thats fine for you. But profanity is a way of expression to me. If I make certain sounds with my mouth it may not be excepted by some. If I make certain sounds from my ass it may not be excepted by some. If I make sounds with my finger nails on a chalk board it may not be excepted by some. If I make sounds when I eat It may not be excepted by some. If certain sounds bother a person so much I say get a fucking life and move on there are much more important things to bitch about.
Berserker

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

302. I wonder when asking becomes telling. For some, I imagine

the transition occurs in their minds when the thing being asked for is not okay with the other person.

Or when the thing being asked for reminds them of something that was imposed on them in the past.

It seems sort of like "How dare you use your freedom of speech to express an opinion about the way I use my freedom of speech. You are trying to censor me."

Of course the response might be, "And you in turn negate my freedom of speech which carries no weight of authority, by falsely labeling it censorship."

[JVS]

303. Swearing is for inarticulate shitheads who don't know how to fucking...

express themselves.