Right-wing vs Right-wing

[Joanne98]

It is the RW in Israel that for the most part are starting this war with Hizbella. Israel's RW is made up of mostly Likud's and the settlers. I know some of the left (Barak) is calling for the US to attack Iran. (yikes) But for the most part, it's the right. I might add that it's my opinion that most militaries ARE by nature RW!

Hizbella is a militant, fundamentalist, group, which makes them also RW!

My question is: why do I have to be on either one's side? Isn't this a false choice.

Israel is invading Lebanon. Why don't I get to pick between the aggressor country (Israel) or the victim country (Lebanon)?
(No kidnapped troops don't count as defending your country)

If I'm forced to pick a side. I'm picking the goverment of Lebanon.
If I'm forced to pick between RW factions, I have to pick Hizbella BECAUSE Hizbella is the weaker of the two (way weaker). As an enemy of the RW (ALL OF THEM)I want to get as much of a balance as possible so they can inflict more pain on each other.

I am the LEFT. It's my job to worry about my side and ONLY my side.

All wars have a "rally around the flag" effect. Eighty percent of Israelies (according to the polls) support invading Lebanon. Of course the Israeli people are being told, they are defending themselves. Sound familar.

But the PM of Lebanon said today that if Israel sends troops across the border, the Lebanese army will fight alongside Hizbella to defend the country. I guess the Lebanese have a flag too.

Enter Cheney STAGE RIGHT. He says, "the war" with Hizbella is a reason why WE need to "stay the course" on the "war on terra" and return the GOP back to congress. Hmmmmmm!!!!

I'm beginning to smell a set-up! Could this whole thing be a PLAN. They all are RW after all. Are the DEMS getting RAILROADED into making statements, choosing sides, before we even know what is happening?

WHO BENEFITS! THE ISRAELI PEOPLE PULL TO THE RIGHT FOR PROTECTION. THE LEBANESE PEOPLE PULL TO THE RIGHT FOR PROTECTION. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE PULL TO THE RIGHT FOR PROTECTION.

We are the left-wing.
We are under attack my friends. My suggestion....

Refuse to takes sides between RW'ers.
Take Lebanon's side..(if you have too)
Question "the war on terror" (we don't know what really happened on 9/11)
Speculate on who's getting the contracts to rebuild Lebanon.
Haliburton?
Accuse Cheney and the neo-cons of wanting to invade Iran so they can STEAL THE OIL.
Find out if we have any LW counter-parts in Israel/Lebanon and support them.

That's all I can think of in such a short notice.

UPDATE: The Fascist News Network is now suggesting that Hizbella has Sadam's weapon's of mass destruction. There you have it.

Stop the in-fighting, circle the wagon's, we really are under attack.

[MariaS]

1. I find no arument with what you wrote

It makes good sense to me and I agree with you that we need to support the left. Thanks for your insight.

[Joanne98]

3. Glad to hear that. Thank you

[madmusic]

2. Great post.

Though I don't agree with supporting Hizbella, it is probable that Israel got the greenlight from Rove.

I don't support any of them unless, as you say, there is a Left in Lebanon.

BTW, the Left isn't necessarily anti-war, but is anti-WRONG war, always has been.

Kick and rec.

[Joanne98]

5. I don't think the left should be anti-war......

I worry that we don't have enough fighters. I think we need a religion too. If would be nice to have our own preachers.

[sandnsea]

4. Just make shit up

to create a "left" position. That's one way I guess.

[Joanne98]

6. What do you mean.

[sandnsea]

7. Worry about ONLY "the left" side

And start attacking the right -

We should

'Take Lebanon's side', for no particular reason, just take their side and make it up as we go?

We 'don't know what really happened on 9/11' - so we should just make shit up about terrorism?

'Speculate' on who's getting the contracts to rebuild Lebanon. Haliburton? Again, just make shit up?



What do you think you're standing up for if all of your arguments are just made up?

[Joanne98]

9. There's nothing made up.

We don't know what really happened on 9/11. Unless you do.

Someone IS going to get the contracts to rebuild Lebanon. Why not start guessing now? That's what the stock brokers are doing.

Taking Lebanon's side is the right thing to do since their are the victims.

It's not good for the left to be confused all the time.I'm trying to clarify. If you want made up shit, you can get that from the right.

[sandnsea]

10. Start guessing?

That's making shit up. You're not clarifying, you're "guessing". So you can concoct a political position. And THAT is what you can get from the right.

[Joanne98]

23. OK. Speculating. It's what traders do. Who are you? The language

police? It could also be called BETTING. It doesn't matter, it's all the same thing. Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good.

[madmusic]

14. I think the OP is anti-neocon more than anything. n/t

That's the gist of it, IMHO.

[manic expression]

17. Which supporters of Israel cannot tolerate

they have trouble with the very concept of it. Kind of sad, really.

[sandnsea]

18. Then be anti-neocon with facts for chrissake

None of this guessing and speculating and let's just say what we need to because it's all good for the "left". :crazy:

[madmusic]

20. Here's the gist of it:

It is the RW in Israel that for the most part are starting this war with Hizbella. Israel's RW is made up of mostly Likud's and the settlers. I know some of the left (Barak) is calling for the US to attack Iran. (yikes) But for the most part, it's the right. I might add that it's my opinion that most militaries ARE by nature RW!

Hizbella is a militant, fundamentalist, group, which makes them also RW!

My question is: why do I have to be on either one's side? Isn't this a false choice.

While there may be some speculating, the above is true. It is a false choice and we can add the neocons to the group.

Problem is, there really isn't any solution.

My suggestion would be to move Israel to California by Palm Springs, but they probably wouldn't go for that.

[sandnsea]

21. I can read - thank you very much

I read what I read, I responded to the OP's suggestions that we make shit up to attack the right. I quoted what I was referring to specifically, which had nothing to do with what you posted. If you're going to respond to me, then respond to me about what *I'm* talking about.

[Joanne98]

25. You are making up me guessing about shit.

[Joanne98]

24. Anti-Likud too. Every country has their own RW!

[Joanne98]

8. Lookie here:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/21...

Israel set war plan more than a year ago
Strategy was put in motion as Hezbollah began increasing its military strength

Matthew Kalman, Chronicle Foreign Service

Friday, July 21, 2006

(07-21) 04:00 PDT Jerusalem -- Israel's military response by air, land and sea to what it considered a provocation last week by Hezbollah militants is unfolding according to a plan finalized more than a year ago.

In the years since Israel ended its military occupation of southern Lebanon, it watched warily as Hezbollah built up its military presence in the region. When Hezbollah militants kidnapped two Israeli soldiers last week, the Israeli military was ready to react almost instantly.

"Of all of Israel's wars since 1948, this was the one for which Israel was most prepared," said Gerald Steinberg, professor of political science at Bar-Ilan University. "In a sense, the preparation began in May 2000, immediately after the Israeli withdrawal, when it became clear the international community was not going to prevent Hezbollah from stockpiling missiles and attacking Israel. By 2004, the military campaign scheduled to last about three weeks that we're seeing now had already been blocked out and, in the last year or two, it's been simulated and rehearsed across the board."

More than a year ago, a senior Israeli army officer began giving PowerPoint presentations, on an off-the-record basis, to U.S. and other diplomats, journalists and think tanks, setting out the plan for the current operation in revealing detail. Under the ground rules of the briefings, the officer could not be identified.

...

I'd like to clarify one thing. Hizbella DOES NOT HAVE MISSILES THEY HAVE ROCKETS! Rockets so old they were used by the Viet Cong. So much for the Iran/Syrian involvement.

[oberliner]

11. Questions and Comments

Do you dispute either of the following statements:

Hezbollah is bombing cities in Israel from positions in Lebanon.

Hezbollah members crossed from Lebanon into Israel killed eight Israeli soldiers and captured two before Israel attacked Lebanon.

If not, do they impact your perception of the situation at all?

I know I am a newbie here and I do not mean to pick a fight.

It just seems that the assessment presented in the original post is not one that is shared by any Democrat in Congress.

Are Pelosi, Feingold, Kerry, etc. all being railroaded?

I don't believe that any Democrat in or seeking office would (if forced to pick) choose Hezbollah so I do not see how this presentation is going to lead to any circling of the wagons.

[Gold Metal Flake]

12. Olly?

Izzat you?

[oberliner]

15. Confused

I don't know what your response to my post means, but I like your sig line!

[Gold Metal Flake]

16. I know an O. Berliner.

The pix has significance.

If this is not you, don't worry. The message is not code, I just thought I saw an old aquaintance.

[Joanne98]

26. Welcome to DU.

Do you dispute either of the following statements:

Hezbollah is bombing cities in Israel from positions in Lebanon.

Yes I do dispute this. It's an exaggeration. Hizbella is firing ROCKETS into Israel. (big firecrakers with explosions on the end) They are slow and you can't guide them. Most of them are falling in the sea. From Lebanon yes, but Hizbella are Lebanese so that's to be expected.



Hezbollah members crossed from Lebanon into Israel killed eight Israeli soldiers and captured two before Israel attacked Lebanon.

Yes, but if you listen to the Lebanonese goverment, they say Israel does the same thing. Appartently Israeli special ops crosses over and grabs Hizbella members and puts them in Israeli jails. Hizbella grabbed the two soldiers to try and get some of their guys back. This is a good example of right on right fighting. There are no good guys. I GUESS, you could try to count how many times each side crossed borders but I doubt if they will admit to it.

If not, do they impact your perception of the situation at all?

NO. It's nothing new. They've been doing this for decades. I'm trying to figure out, why Israel is invading Lebanon NOW and I haven't heard a believable explanation yet.

I know I am a newbie here and I do not mean to pick a fight.

It just seems that the assessment presented in the original post is not one that is shared by any Democrat in Congress.

That one's easy. AIPAC!

Are Pelosi, Feingold, Kerry, etc. all being railroaded?

It looks that way. The GOP make everybody vote on supporting Israel BEFORE they knew the details. I just hope the Dems don't get on the Sunday shows and make asses out of themselves. Cheney wants to invade IRAN. They should worry about being TRICKED into supporting that. All their stupid statements will be appearing in gop swifting commerials. I assume they know that, but I would be GUESSING! lol

I don't believe that any Democrat in or seeking office would (if forced to pick) choose Hezbollah so I do not see how this presentation is going to lead to any circling of the wagons.

I agree. The word "terrorist" is too entrenched in the murkin's minds. But talking I'm about the base mostly. It's our job to counter the RW proganda. Hizbella is not Al Quaida. Lumping everyone together in a broad description has been a problem all along. The whole war on terror has to be confronted. That's why I always question 9/11. It's the excuse for everything.

[oberliner]

29. Thanks!

I appreciate your taking the time to respond!

Thank you for responding with civility as well.

Here is my response to your points:

Yes I do dispute this. It's an exaggeration. Hizbella is firing ROCKETS into Israel. (big firecrakers with explosions on the end) They are slow and you can't guide them. Most of them are falling in the sea. From Lebanon yes, but Hizbella are Lebanese so that's to be expected.

I will grant that it is "rockets" that are being fired into Israel. Will you grant that some of those rockets have killed and injured Israeli civilians?

source: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2198003&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Yes, but if you listen to the Lebanonese goverment, they say Israel does the same thing. Appartently Israeli special ops crosses over and grabs Hizbella members and puts them in Israeli jails. Hizbella grabbed the two soldiers to try and get some of their guys back. This is a good example of right on right fighting. There are no good guys. I GUESS, you could try to count how many times each side crossed borders but I doubt if they will admit to it.

Can you give me a source on Israeli special ops crossing over and grabbed Hizbella members?
It is my understanding that the guys that Hizbella wants to get back were arrested in Israel.
I know that Samir Qantar is a prisoner Nasrallah has mentioned by name for the swap.
He was arrested in Israel for killing a policeman and his four year old daughter.

source: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=74159

I appreciate your civility in spite of our disagreements!

[DanCa]

13. I just want the war to stop.

I don't want to see anyone hurt on both sides. I also want someone in office that has a plan to get us out. All that the chimp wants to do is divide us on this issue and I wont let him.

[rug]

19. You're right. There is no left in this war. Maybe one will emerge.

[sandnsea]

22. Supporting the UN buffer zone

That would be the logical position of the left - but since it would require acknowledging Israeli's die at the hands of Islamic terrorists, I guess we can't have that.

[Joanne98]

28. That would depend on WHERE the UN buffer zone is.

[Joanne98]

27. The whole world has moved to the right for the last 25 years...

That's why you're seeing more rw vs rw. Or as in this country, rw vs MODERATE dems. The human race needs choices. Picking between Pepsi or Diet Pepsi isn't good enough. We need a FAR FAR LEFT to pull the train the other way.