Sometimes, war seems to be a good thing

[MoseyWalker]

for reasons that most
don't know.
but they give so many reasons
for the things
that they do
war must be
a good thing
for someone
if not
for me and you

War is never a "good thing". War kills and hurts people. War is the maximum abuse that can be committed upon a child.

I don't care what side you are on, or how it is justified.

War is wrong. War hurts. War kills more than one can see.

on the tv.

I have to say. Fuck the bombs and rockets and posturing and beliefs and reasons.

War kills.

War is wrong.

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. Right ... and we should have let HItler run amuck n/t

[tnlefty]

3. Best I remember Hitler started that horrible war.

And yes, I do seem to remember that this country as well as others (shamefully) turned around ships carrying Jews who were trying to flee Europe. So I'm misunderstanding your post somehow?

[Fredda Weinberg]

4. I'm rejecting the position that war is always wrong n/t

[insane_cratic_gal]

6. Hitler did run amuck!

It wasn't until millions of Jews were killed did "We" jump on the bad wagon United States was freaking Sweden, (cough) rose colored glasses

[uppityperson]

2. yup

[Name removed]

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[MrSlayer]

7. Right on.

Better to die fighting than to live on your knees.

[Tenseiga]

35. I agree with MrSlayer, and furthur thoughts

Better to die fighting than to live on your knees.

It's not war I'm against, it's people who deny peace that I'm against. Sometimes you have to go to war with them to promote peace.

Peace should be seen as a goal, not a way of life. And if you want peace, you need to be prepared for war.

In fact, I'd go as far to say that "being prepared" needs to be the new mantra, not just when it comes to war/peace. Preparing for anything means you'll be able to adapt to whatever situation you find yourself in.

Not being prepared is why we have an energy problem right now. Had we been working on alternative energy for the last 20 years, we'd be in a much better position to absorb the rising costs of crude oil.

[Name removed]

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[Strelnikov_]

31. "Evil In The World . . Francos And Hitlers And Stalins And . . ."

Ahmadinejads ????????

Yeah, he seems like a loose cannon, but calling him evil (based on his track record to date) and lumping him in with Adolph and Uncle Joe seems to be, well, moronic.

There could not be an agenda related to this post, could there?

Bill, is that you?

And, praytell, just how are we going to end up living under the rule of Ah-jad? Are they building a secret invasion fleet?

[Name removed]

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[Strelnikov_]

37. No. Highly Moronic

A) Ah-Jad is simply a front man. So, to use your analogy, you want to depose Goebbels or Molotov.

B) The jailing of dissidents etc. you decry was occurring long before Ah-Jad was on the scene.

C) Ah-Jad was democratically elected, as a response to the GOP invasion of Iraq, the greatest strategic blunder in US history. Following 9/11, the reformers were gaining power, and reached out numerous times to initiate a dialog. After the invasion, the hard liners gained the upper hand as the populace turned to the extreme nationalists when threatened, like all countries do.

D) Iran is contained, just as Iraq was contained.

You stated in another post that you are in the Guard. So, hey, knock yourself out. You do know, however, that you will be dying in an attempt to secure oil and natural gas fields for the coporatists. I say attempt, because it will never succeed. Just like Iraq, only, as you say, multiply the clusterfuck by about 20.

Maybe you need to do some research on what is slipping out about the Pentagon's (military, not civilian) reservations in engaging Iran in a war of choice.

[Name removed]

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[insane_cratic_gal]

10. I suggest you read Howard Zinn then

people's history of the united states

[Name removed]

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[insane_cratic_gal]

16. It allows you to view

the history of the United States through the eyes of it's people.. and no Historians (years later when they ignore the suffering) with rose colored glasses who leaves out all of the bad things.

So you get to see what life is like under the ELITE ruling class of the founding fathers through the eyes of the native american, black, women, poor, irish. etc...

I think it never hurts to set aside opinion and explore how deeply rooted it is, if only to decide and re-evaluate if it's the correct opinion.

[Name removed]

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[liberal_patriot_md]

33. "Read it I will" -- Master Yoda? n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

11. War ends life. War ends everything. nt

[Citizen Carrier]

13. Sure it does.

Who was it that said only the dead have seen the last of war?

The problem with these sentiments is that they seem to be lumping aggressors and those who STAND UP to the aggressors as somehow being morally equivalent and equally wrong.

You know why Ghandi and MLK's tactics worked against Britain and America? Because as wrong as America or Britain may have been, they weren't intrinsically evil. Non-violence works against people who are misguided, YET possess a conscience.

How much mileage would Ghandi have gotten using his stuff against Reinhard Heydrich and Heinrich Himmler? Plenty of mileage...all the way to the gas chamber. Because guys like can't be SHAMED into changing their way.

Hey, when one side decides it wants a war and the other side chooses to sit it out because it makes them feel morally superior, guess who WINS the war?

[SammyWinstonJack]

17. Why would choosing to sit out a war make one side morally superior?

You lost me there. Why would sitting out a war make one feel morally superior? :shrug: Peace and all that jazz.

[Name removed]

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[insane_cratic_gal]

18. Why are they hunger striking in Gitmo again?

But because we are morally superior we stuck them on feeding tubes against their will ... so we don't look bad

Why do their clerics go on hunger strikes too?

You know the history of the Dali Lama? Tibet?

Do you know anything about ME culture? Ever met someone from there? Are you friends with A Muslim?

Just wondering before you decide that these tactics are inferior and will not work on x y z because you deem them aggressors. I can assure in the ME we are the aggressors not the other way around.

[Name removed]

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[Douglas Carpenter]

38. to quote Israel's leading historian on the Israel/Arab conflict

"the fear of territorial displacement and dispossession is the engine that fuels Arab antagonism to Zionism." Benny Morris

It is not anti-Semites or having backward minds -- it is is the fear of territorial displacement and dispossession.

What would we think of an American historian who explained Native American Indian attacks on European settlers by explaining that the Native Americans hated European, were anti-Christian, rejected modernity and were scared of the emancipation of women? Such a thesis wouldn't even pass the laugh test.

p.s. I have lived 20 years in the Middle East and have done fair degree of study on the issue.

[Name removed]

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[blonndee]

15. Oh, man. nt

[Name removed]

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[blonndee]

21. You have no idea.

Open-mindedness is often associated with an inquisitive nature, after all. An inquisitive nature will often lead to much study and reflection. Often, the end result is a reasonable conclusion. Not always, but very often.

[Name removed]

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[SammyWinstonJack]

28. I don't fear , fear. And I am an atheist so your Jesus reference is lost

on me.......Peace.......!

[Name removed]

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[readmoreoften]

32. there is nothing lonely about being an atheist

and there is nothing depressing about wanting to work to benefit humanity in this world, not suffer in hopes of what might happen in the next.

[Rhiannon12866]

34. I can't imagine that anyone here would disagree with you.

War is the last thing that we want, but this administration has another agenda.:-(

Welcome to DU, MoseyWalker! We're glad to have you with us.:toast:

And I really like your avatar...:D

Rhiannon:hi:

[The Magistrate]

39. Saying It Is Wrong, Sir, Hardly Settles The Question

A great many things are wrong, and being alive is generally an exercise in balancing and choosing between various wrongs.

"This is the best world possible: everything in it is a necessary evil."

[Douglas Carpenter]

42. I agree with you Sir. Would you agree that the burden of justification

for war lies with the war advocate not the war opponent; given the absolute horror of war and the monstrous long term consequences and unpredictable side effects?

[treestar]

40. I've seen a lot of that sentiment that it is inevitable

It can't be avoided in some instances, there are evil people in the world, etc.

But human progress eradicated other evils or at least cut down on their occurrence a great deal. There's nothing wrong with trying to get rid of war. Unless you work for Halliburton, or are just bloodthirsty and need an excuse.

[Imajika]

41. Just pure silliness....

"War is never a 'good thing'."

Absolutely, completely, utterly incorrect. That statement is beyond naive.

Revolutions to topple corrupt dictators are wars. Lots of innocents die. Does that mean that a population should never attempt to rid itself of tyrants whom rule them?

Was the Civil War wrong? Was fighting Nazi Germany wrong? Was fighting a massive campaign against Imperial Japan wrong? We could have just written off the thousands of Americans killed in Pearl Harbor, and ignored the fact that Japan was seizing and marauding throughout Asia building their empire. We could have said war is never a "good thing" and just turned a blind eye to this. Do you believe the Japanese would have stopped what they were doing in Asia because of our wonderful example? Ofcourse not, Imperial Japan would have collectively laughed at us. Should the Chinese and other Asian peoples have fought back against Japan, or did you think they should default to the pacifist notion that war is never a "good thing" and just let Japan take whatever it pleased?

If the North Koreans rise against their slave state masters and spark a revolution would that be wrong? There is no doubt lots of innocent civilians would die in such strife. Should the North Korean people just shrug their shoulders and be happy with their meager rations and miserable conditions because war is never a "good thing"?

If the US attacks Venezuela because we don't like Hugo Chavez, would it be wrong for Venezuela to fight back? Would it be wrong for Cuba or other nations to assist Venezuela?

This is the thing pacifists and the peace lobby never get. War is NOT the worst thing. Some things are worth fighting and dying for. Some things are worth fighting and dying for even when lots of innocent civilians die in the process.

There will always be people, organizations, nations and blocs of nations that want something someone else has. There will always be would be tyrants that will be all too happy to prey on the naive notion that war is never a "good thing". Human nature is what it is. It isn't going to change. Very often, war does infact solve problems. It is sad that non combatants die in conflicts, but that is just the way it is. Period.