Andrea Yates NOT GUILTY By Reason of Insanity

[kpete]

CNN - 10:04

Retrial jury has reached a verdict on whether Andrea Yates was sane when she drowned her children in a bathtub, Court TV reports. Verdict will be read live on CNN Pipeline.

Andrea Yates was insane when she drowned her children in a bathtub, jury finds.

http://www.cnn.com/

[malaise]

1. The only fair verdict

for this poor sick woman. Will these pro-kill anchors give it a rest please. They are way too unhappy.
add.

[SammyBlue]

82. I disagree. Would the jury have thought that if her husband did what she

did?

The only thing most people would ask is "how much poison should we inject."

Look at Scott Peterson. People were, and still are, screaming for his blood.

[LynzM]

94. I disagree with your statement.

Post-partum depression, and post-partum psychosis are real, documented diseases that women suffer. The same has not been found for fathers, to the best of my knowledge. But I could be wrong, and if someone has stats on that, I'd love to hear them.

I agree that it would have been different if the father had committed the crime, but I disagree that the difference would be an invalid conclusion.

[LostinVA]

128. Check out the other thread.... same responses

[malaise]

97. And how would he have post partum

related mental illness? She has a history of mental illness.
Sp.

[SammyBlue]

109. So did alot of thwe death row inmates in Texas that Bush executed

Alot had environmental problems whose lives were pre-determined before birth.

The difference. Andrea Yates is a woman, most of the people on Death row are men!

[malaise]

116. Valid point n/t

[KansDem]

124. I thought the same thing about Susan Smith

The young mother who drowned her two sons to make way for a romance.

Susan Smith

At 4:38 p.m. the jury returned with a unanimous decision after deliberating for two and one half-hours. The jury rejected the prosecution’s request for a sentence of death for Susan and decided instead that Susan should spend the rest of her natural life in prison. The jury had taken the same amount of time to convict Susan as it did to reject the death penalty

At 4:45 p.m., Judge Howard sentenced Susan Smith to thirty years to life in prison. Susan will be eligible for parole in 2025, after she has served 30 years in prison. At that time, Susan will be 53 years old.

I've often thought if a young black father killed his two children for the same reason, would he have received the same sentence? Or would he be rotting on death row?

[LostinVA]

129. The jury gave her that sentence for a reason

So that she would suffer every day.

She also had some mental issues brought up at trial: her Deacon stepdaddy had raped her for years... including in the not too distant past. That excuses nothing... just saying she was totally messed up.

But, as I stated, at the time of the verdict, more than one juror said they gave her life as a worse penalty than death.

[rsmith6621]

2. Thanks For the Update....Now

Back to Wars that the Neo-Cons have started...

[AzDar]

3. Good. n/t

[blonndee]

4. Dang, I forgot that was going on.

I agree with the verdict, based on what I've read about the case and her history. Will she be committed to some sort of mental health facility now? She certainly needs some help for her problems.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

5. Yeah, well, but,

is she going to be kept in a psychiatric facility?

Such people should NOT walk the streets.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

9. Yes

She's not going free but she will be getting the help she needs.

[jmowreader]

115. Part of the help she needs is cult deprogramming

No, I'm not kidding.

Andrea Yates was probably a rational, normal human being before her idiot husband Found The Lord.

This is the moran who decided the Bible's admonition to "live simply" meant "sell your house and move your family into a Greyhound bus." This is the moran who decided that the Bible's admonition to "be fruitful and multiply" meant "take your wife home after the doctor told you she can't handle another pregnancy and get her pregnant."

After they get Jesus out of her system, they can work on the rest of her myriad psychoses.

[yardwork]

13. Yes, she will be in an-patient facility run by the state

Psychiatrists will regularly examine her, and it is possible that she will be released sometime in the future if they determine that she is sane, but I doubt that will happen, especially in Texas.

In essence, she will serve life in prison, and she will always live with the knowledge of what she did. This was a fair verdict, imo.

[lastliberalintexas]

76. Very common misconception

NGBRMD does not mean that a person has been found not guilty and will be free- it means s/he will go to a state run psych center, and often actually for more time than if s/he had simply been found guilty and sent to prison.

[npincus]

6. she had post-partum depression, but what was the specific diagnosis?

Paranoid delusional? Schizophrenic? Anybody know?

[EFerrari]

14. Diagnosis is only as good as the doctor making one.

They misdiagnosed my family member for the better part of a decade. In addition to missing little things like Diabetes and autism. Sheesh.

[npincus]

18. OK

sorry about your family member. I have a personal reason myself for wanting to know.

:)

[EFerrari]

21. It has been reported that she is now stable on anti-psychotic

meds -- one reason why she's been on suicide watch on and off. She's finally getting some care, it looks like. :(

[blonndee]

17. It wasn't only post-partum depression.

She had been hospitalized several times and had a history of suicide attempts.

Post-killing diagnosis:

"After the drownings, Yates was diagnosed with postpartum depression with psychotic features and schizophrenia." http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4067045

[Pathwalker]

22. Post-partum PSYCHOSIS. Far more serious than

post-partum depression.

[etherealtruth]

23. Post partum psychosis ...

I never heard it narrowed down tighter than that.

[Marie26]

46. Likely schizophrenic as well. nt

[LostinVA]

131. No schizophrenia per many doctors -- psychosis n/t

[Marie26]

140. Some doctors

have diagnosed her as schizophrenic & the symptoms certainly seem to fit. Psychosis can be a symptom of schizophrenia.

ETA- "An expert witness who testified for the defense last week told jurors Yates suffers from schizophrenia, which was worsened by her bouts with postpartum depression following the births of her fourth and fifth children.

Schizophrenia causes a person's thinking, feeling and behavior to become impaired. It includes symptoms such as delusions, hallucinations and social withdrawal."

http://www.courttv.com/trials/yates/030402_ap.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. Post partum psychosis

[Hell Hath No Fury]

68. I thought it was post-partum psychosis...

which PPD x1000. According to friends and family, Yates was practically catatonic in teh days before the event -- standing in front of the TV for hours picking at her hair, unable to dress herself or hold a conversation.

Why ol' Rusty "Stud" Yates would trust someone in such a condition to care for his kids is mind-boggling.

[LynzM]

95. And also, why he would continue to have children....

With a woman who was obviously becoming less stable after each child was born, from what I've read. Irresponsible is the least of the words I'd use for him.

[moc]

86. Postpartum psychosis but with a long history of severe mental

illness. I don't know the specific dx, but she had a history of being treated with haldol, which is a major antipsychotic.

[LostinVA]

130. She did NOT have PPD -- she had PPP (psychos)

That was the diagnosis.

[Gatchaman]

7. Can they prosecute the husband now?

he's the fundie wacko who turned her into a baby factory, kept her from seeking treatment, and is as responsible for this tragedy as anyone is.

[EFerrari]

10. That's simply untrue. Please check your facts. n/t

[Lindacooks]

37. It is true.

Where are your facts?

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jul2001/yate-j02.shtml

[cynatnite]

42. No it is not true...

what you supplied was opinion.

Geez, she's a sick woman. To blame the husband for it is just outright ludicrous. It reminds me of when the RW nutjobs were blaming Michael Schiavo for his wife's condition. :eyes:

[Lindacooks]

62. I'm blaming him for isolating her and for not getting her the help

she needed. His involvement in that whacko fundie religion is proof enough for me that he didn't help her; those people think that if you pray hard enough everything will be fine.

The fact that she actually got to the point where she killed those kids is proof enough for me that he was neglecting her and the whole situation.

[EFerrari]

66. Beg to differ. Hubby and I have no such fundy leanings, lol,

and we had to fight tooth and claw to get him the same kind of help.

It took EIGHT YEARS. And, that's just the AVERAGE time it takes to get care.

Criticize Rusty Yates all you want, but in our current system, if you have a family member with those problems, you are looking at living dangerously at some time or another.

[Lindacooks]

88. I've had the same thing - family member with these problems

who refused treatment. Difference is, we wouldn't let them be alone with little children.

[EFerrari]

92. "Preventable tragedies"

:hug:

[Lindacooks]

101. Yep.

:hug:

[EFerrari]

43. Linda, if you are well read on this case, you know that Rusty

Yates was in her doctor's office with Andrea two days before the children died to TELL HIM HER MEDS WERE NOT WORKING.

The DUMBASS doctor withdrew the medication and SENT HER HOME.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. So why did he leave her alone with the kids?

He KNEW she was not well.

[EFerrari]

61. I've said before that he AND his mom were not functioning

well because, she could have just as easily attacked them in her condition. Nobody took this seriously enough.

Same with at least one neighbor who observed Andrea in a clearly psychotic state and "didn't want to say anything".

:wtf:

Not only shouldn't she have been alone with the kids, she should have been in a hospital.

[proud2BlibKansan]

136. I heard that about the neighbor and wondered what a neighbor could do

in such a situation.

[EFerrari]

137. She could do only what most of us could do.

**Give information***

***Let people know, she was WATCHING***

***Alert whatever network there was***

***Not stop looking or watching because lives were at stake****

And you know, psychosis can be so subtle. I myself have been accused of everything in the book while asking medicos to lookit my Doug. I was begging for attention or manipulative or ? -- until it was proven I wasn't. Until it was shown that he really really did need the care I was asking for, all that time.

I guess what anyone can do (imho) is to alert the network WHILE letting that network know, you are taking names. Because if you read back over that neighbor's account, she saw EVERYTHING you'd need to see before calling in the authorities to secure the situation. :(

[EFerrari]

57. To clarify: my deal is while Rusty has issues, no one should

fall through the cracks like that and sadly, most people with her problems do. Those kids should be alive because there is no reason in the world she couldn't get the care her family tried to get for her.

And what about all the health workers who interacted with her and what about her community and yadda yadda yadda.

Those kids would be alive if even *one* person in her life knew how the heck to advocate for her in a system that is passively dangerous when it's not outright hostile. :(

[yardwork]

87. I see your point, but it just reinforces my opinion of TX and the US

when it comes to mental health care. I do think that Rusty Yates deserves a fair share of blame in this situation, but it's also true that he didn't kill the children, and he did make some efforts to get her help. However, he was largely responsible for the situation that made her sick in the first place, imo.

[EFerrari]

104. Our mental health care system is dangerous.

There is no doubt about that.

After my husband tried to get treatment at the biggest clinic in the US in Los Angeles, I began keeping a daily journal because I thought *I* was losing it. I've sent the whole record to Henry Waxman, and hopefully, he will look into it.

Rusty didn't predispose Andrea to mental illness and I have my own ideas of him not understanding or ignoring what that life style and all those pregnancies were doing to her.

Severe mental illness can be subtle, until it isn't.

It can look like it is under control, until it isn't.

And it carries a lot of bs stigma that makes people look away just when they should be paying attention.

Mental illness also can wear out the families who do most of the care for sufferers, to the point where they become ill in some way themselves -- or so shut down that "common sense" just isn't something they recognize.

This whole situation is dangerous. Very dangerous.

[Lindacooks]

60. I'm talking about the right wing nutty fundie lifestyle they led

and how he isolated her from the outside world. Many times, when someone has severe depression or psychosis, meds will NOT work, and what is needed is hospitalization or other forms of treatment, including shock treatment. Just taking the doctor's word for it was stupid.

Yates did NOT do everything he could to help his wife, and he should NOT have left her alone with those kids, being so isolated.

[EFerrari]

64. Yates had no ability to hospitalize his wife. But I agree.

Everyone in her life failed Andrea and the children. And they will have to live with that for the rest of theirs.

This was 100% preventable.

[Lindacooks]

89. Yep, I agree.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. He did leave her alone with those kids

He knew she was not well and left her with his children. I have thought all along that he is much guiltier than she is. She is insane, he is not.

[EFerrari]

67. I think everyone involved is more guilty than she could ever be.

But I guess I reserve special blame for all those medical people who let it escalate.

[proud2BlibKansan]

135. Yes I see your point

If someone had paid attention and acted responsibly, perhaps those kids would still be alive.

[SammyBlue]

84. No, because he didn't do the act. Stop shifting the blame, the CJ system

would say. And, since he didn't kill the children, he had nothing to do with it. Look at it through the eyes of the CJ system.

[EFerrari]

93. Yeah, the CJ system which is also the biggest provider of

mental health services in the world.

How screwed up IS that. :(

[SammyBlue]

111. Very screwed up. As is this concept of free will.

Everyone has the free will to not do the crime.

But the CJ system takes no environmental factors, nor does it look at the big picture. It just looks at the one case, without looking at everything involved in the crime (poverty, desperation, etc).

[WolverineDG]

117. Women in Texas have been sentenced to prison

for life for doing EXACTLY what Rusty Yates did. There's your "eyes of the CJ system" for you.

dg

[BoneDaddy]

133. Right she is not accountable

Blame the man... some of you folks are fucking blind

[trogdor]

8. And if she were black...

...or the fundy Xtians hadn't gone to bat for her as one of their own, she'd already be on the hot seat. Justice for one is nice, but I'd like to see justice for all.

[yardwork]

16. She was found guilty in a previous trial, but the verdict was overturned

because the prosecution's witness, Park Dietz, lied on the stand.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Did they find that Aruba girl yet?

How's the Duke Lacrosse team doing?

[etherealtruth]

33. Sorry that this doesn't appear important to you (?)

This is a very serious issue.

It's not the specific case, but the recognition of the horrendous impacts of mental illness (and for "us" women the not uncommon mental illnesses that may follow pregnancy and childbirth).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Oh, OK.

here I was thinking it was just another media soap opera.

[Akoto]

12. CNN just reported she will be committed to a mental facility.

For whatever reason, it was clarified that the jury was NOT allowed to know that, or any of the other possible consequences if she were judged not guilty by reason of insanity.

She will have periodic hearings from now on, but they believe she will not be leaving the hospital for a very long time, if ever.

[EstimatedProphet]

15. I have absolutely no opinion on this.

[yardwork]

19. I do. This is an issue that speaks to human rights.

Most so-called civilized nations recognize that women who kill their babies do so out of extreme duress. They don't treat them like criminals. Prosecuting these kinds of cases is similar to our death penalty - it's inhumane, it's cruel, it's stupid, and it's counterproductive.

[EFerrari]

25. Right on. Womens' health. "If it happens to Mommy, it's not

real . . ." until, it is.

[EstimatedProphet]

26. Well...OK

I agree with you there. So I guess I do have an opinion. However, I haven't been following the story at all, because I thought it to be another runaway bride/killer model/abducted cheerleader story designed to distract us from the fact that Satan has taken over the White House.

[EFerrari]

52. The Great Satan formed the New Freedom Commission

on Mental Health and has proceeded to do zip about Mental Health in this country. So, there is a connection.

[EstimatedProphet]

56. True

Mental health is just one thing in a long list of topics Bush has actively destroyed in the last 5 years.

[yardwork]

83. I agree with you about the "look over there - shiny!" stories but

this isn't one of them. This case encapsulates a lot of what is wrong with the country. Andrea Yates and her husband became part of an extremist right-wing fundamentalist Christian cult. The so-called "minister" of this group taught his followers that women's role was to bear children and suffer for Eve's sins. Andrea had five children under the age of seven. Her husband, an aerospace engineer in Houston, insisted that they live in an abandoned school bus for a long time - no heat, no air conditioning, no running water, no bathroom. While he was at work in air-conditioned comfort, always-pregnant Andrea took care of the kids in the school bus.

Eventually they moved back into a real house, and Andrea got some mental health care, but not very much, and her husband was not proactive to say the least. Her relatives and friends repeatedly warned him and his family and their wacked-out church brethren that she was at the end of her rope.

Andrea had delusions that she was a "bad mother" and because of that, her children were "lost." She heard voices telling her that her children would grow up to be evil and go to Hell. The voices told her to kill her children while they were young so that they would go to Heaven as innocents, instead of living to become evil and be damned to Hell for eternity. Her husband knew she felt this way, and he did nothing - except impregnate her yet again. After the last baby was born she went completely insane.

And after she actually killed the children, the state of Texas, which had done nothing to help, went after her.

[EstimatedProphet]

113. All right. I haven't followed the story. And it is good to see

that Texas would take a more enlightened approach in their penal system.

With so many missing blonde cheerleader bride stories covered by the 'news', it's hard to sort through what actually is important.

[11 Bravo]

24. So you chimed in because ... ?

:wtf:

[EstimatedProphet]

28. Because. That's exactly why.

[AndyA]

20. Great. Now perhaps we can deal with the insane person in The White House.

After all, HE is in control of the entire country! And is responsible for THOUSANDS of deaths. Let's put this in perspective.

[EstimatedProphet]

29. Exactly.

[etherealtruth]

70. Mental illness is responsible for thousands of deaths ...

This does not distract that the POTUS is an insane meglo-maniac; this is a co-occurring issue.

We, as a society, have very little understanding of severe mental illness (in its many forms) and we certainly inadequately address the issues surrounding it.

If this case brings a little attention and encourages people to become a little better informed ... a little good can come from the horrendous personal tragedy that this family experienced.

[EFerrari]

71. Right on, etherealtruth

:toast:

[etherealtruth]

27. For this I am thankful

Andrea Yates is (and was) a desperately ill woman

[WolverineDG]

30. When are they going to

persecuteprosecute that asshole husband of hers who kept knocking her up & left her alone with the kids even though he KNEW she was insane? Persecutors in this state have NEVER prosecuted a man for murder by omission but they ALWAYS prosecute women for it when their kids are murdered by their husbands/boyfriends.

dg

[senseandsensibility]

41. I hadn't thought of that aspect of this.

You're right; they do frequently prosecute women who were not even present when their husbands/boyfriends abused or killed the kids. I've read about this happening locally several times over the years. Double standard?

[danalytical]

31. Call me insensitive but

If I were a religious man I would hope she burned in hell. Imagine the terror of the children waiting for their turn to be murdered by their mother. Waiting while your little brother is dying in the bathroom screaming. Then here comes poor sick mom to hold your head under water until you die. The lady may be insane, but those poor poor kids... It breaks my heart.

[blonndee]

32. Very religious, to honestly wish to see another human burning in hell.

Especially since she's obviously sick. Her burning in hell would do nothing to bring back those children.

[Beelzebud]

36. If those had been my kids...

I would send her to hell myself...

If someone murdered my children, I'm sure it would make me "insane" as well..

[blonndee]

39. I can't honestly imagine wanting to send someone to hell

given that "hell" is said to be for eternity and everything. But hey, I haven't had my children murdered. Just seems like "hell" as it's popularly understood, would eventually become overkill, no matter what. But I understand the desire for revenge, definitely.

[Bridget Burke]

73. Let's pretend they were your children. Answer these questions.

Why did you continue to knock her up, even after post-partum psychosis had been added to her ongoing mental problems?

Why did you follow a nutcase preacher--who only sent videotapes to his "followers"? (Belonging to an actual Church can have some positive results--such as human contact.)

Why didn't you leave work a bit early so she would not be unattended?

[alcibiades_mystery]

53. As Nietzsche pointed out in "On the Genealogy of Morals"

nobody gets more pleasure from imagining those who've wronged them suffering all the tortures of hell - no one, that is, concocts crueler, or more intricate, or more painful punishments for others - than the devout Christian.

;-)

[sgxnk]

69. yes

and nietzsche is SUCH an expert on religion lol

nazis liked him a lot.

all that uber this and uber that stuff

[alcibiades_mystery]

75. As is quite obvious

You don't know a damn thing about Nietzsche.

Stick to shit ya actually know.

[sgxnk]

80. plenty

i know plenty

started reading him when i was 12

and no, that was not last year :)

sorry. intimately familiar with nietzsche

but not in THAT way

i notice you didn't refute what i said. just made a personal attack. classic sign of desperation

sad

[alcibiades_mystery]

90. I don't generally spend time refuting nonsense

But, since you asked: Nietzsche was well trained in religious studies, as were all advanced students in philology during his time. More specifically, he studied theology at the university prior to turning to his study of classical philology. As for the Nazis loving Nietzsche, that's neither here nor there with respect to Nietzsche's work, since the Nietzsche died long before the Nazis existed. However, there is much evidence that his sister, a devoted anti-Semite, Bowdlerized his works according to her own anti-Semitic philosphy, a process that Nietzsche scholars have been working to cure for about 50 years. If you started reading Nietzsche at twelve (I suppose you read Hegel at ten, so that you could understand Nietzsche at twelve...), and have read him since, and you don't see the his deep engagement with issues of religion, its wane as an organizing force for his society, and the rise of rationalism in its place, then you are not a very astute reader. This is compounded by the fact that you throw out the most ignorant cliches that are generally bandied about by people who've never read Nietzsche. In any case, you should be one to talk about attacking the person, since that is precisely what you did with Herr Nietzsche, first by claiming he knew nothing about religion (a laughable falsehood), and second by insinuating that he is connected in some way with Nazism. Feel free to refer to the actual works whenever you're ready, though. :rofl:

[sgxnk]

91. "god is dead" - from the gay science

nietzsche's most famous line

i am not intimately aware of nietzsche's BIOGRAPHY

i am intimately aware of his works

i was a philosophy major for undergrad

nietzsche, kant, aristotle, derrida and foucault (in the french), hegel, hume, burke, etc. etc. etc. etc.

and i find it ironic that u see nietzsche as some sort of authoritah on god

furthermore, the nazis were enamored of nietzsche's stuff

that's fact.

if you have read as much nietzsche as me, i would be very surprised

you sound like kevin klein's character in fish called wanda, who THOUGHT he understood nietzsche

[alcibiades_mystery]

99. I've read far more Nietzsche than you have

LOL: undergrad! Oh, well, then...:rofl:

You cite Nietzsche's "most famous line" from The Gay Science (another know-nothing cliche), but you don't appear to have the slightest clue what Nietzsche was saying. Moreover, it's not at all clear to me how you could have read section three of the Gay Science and not seen Nietzsche's deep engagement with religion. I hope your posts here don't reflect your education in philosophy, because you if they do, you have surely wasted your money.

[sgxnk]

100. i have

every clue what he was saying. he was saying the concept was dead in european minds

and the way that you would ASSUME you've read more, with zero evidence whatsoever is proof positive that you are all opinion and no fact

you have no idea how much i've read

but i have every idea how ignorant you are OF that fact

hth

[alcibiades_mystery]

102. I can only go by what I see

And from what I can tell by your lackluster posting and complete lack of understanding, you haven't read any Nietzsche at all, but have rather engaged in a rather pathetic Google search for the purpose of our discussion. Of course, this is an assumption based on the evidence you've presented here: no knowledge whatsoever of Nietzsche's biography (knowledge that would have helped you avoid the embarrassing claim that Nietzsche didn't know anything about religion), a trite cliche about Nietzsche and Nazism (already brushed off as irrelevant), and citation of the only line from Nietzsche that just about everybody in society knows. These don't exactly speak to your profound engagement with his corpus. I made another assumption as well: if you write a dissertation that takes Foucauldian genealogy as one of its methodological approaches, you read a helluva lot of Nietzsche for background, pretty much his entire corpus, including the early lectures on rhetoric, for example, as well as a ton of secondary work on the subject (say, Heidegger's four volume study, and Heidegger was a real live Nazi, unlike Nietzsche!). Since I have done all this, and you boast an undergraduate major and a string of cliches, I did, in fact, assume that I'd read more Nietzsche than you. You're right about that. But it was a reasonable assumption given the evidence. ;-)

[sgxnk]

103. no, you don't

go by what u see

you make baseless assumptions, and then backtrack and hem and haw to justify your aforementioned opinions

there is a word for people who PREjudge without relevant data

there are a LOT of things i am woefully ignorant on. i am the first to admit that

but not nietzsche.

anyways, i have no hard feelings.

oh, and btw. on the subject of foucault

i LOVE nietzsche. but i think foucault is a blithering idiot

if that's not too reserved a review

[alcibiades_mystery]

105. If Foucault were alive today

I'm sure he wouldn't care less.

[sgxnk]

106. now

ThAT is funny

[SPKrazy]

118. My Nietzsche Is Bigger Than Yours!

how silly

[sgxnk]

139. dood

i am SO uber that argument

[blonndee]

81. Or how Nietzsche was read by said party, apparently.

;-)

[Bob3]

44. you don't think she is in hell right now?

and will be there the rest of her natural life. This woman isn't a psychopath or serial killer - she's schizophrenic suicidally depressed - mental illness, terror and depression drove her to kill her children. And she will have to live with that for the rest of her life.

[LostinVA]

132. Would you say that to someone with a physical illness?

No difference. She was SICK.

[partylessinOhio]

35. The verdict was a correct one. Andrea, her mother, Rusty, his mother,

her brother and all others directly involved need a lot of prayers. None of their lives will ever be the same. They will miss those children forever.

[Xenotime]

38. Finally, she can get the treatment she needs and...

those around her can begin to heal.

[hlthe2b]

40. good... justice prevails at least once...

[Marie26]

45. Good. nt

[sandnsea]

47. Hope for science & reason YEAH!!!

I hope this is a signal that sanity and rational thought are returning to this country. Andrea Yates never belonged in prison, I don't know why they didn't just do a plea agreement to begin with.

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. Good

Now if they try her husband, justice will finally be served.

[Misskittycat]

49. Good. n/t

[David Zephyr]

51. Good verdict, but if Andrea was black or latina or lesbian...

she would already have been put to death in Texas.

Because this sensible verdict flies in the face of Texas judicial tradition, one can only conclude that she was found "insane" and "not guilty" for the singular reasoning that she is white.

[EFerrari]

72. You are most likely right, David.

:(

[Bridget Burke]

74. If Andrea had been lesbian....

She probably would have had fewer children. And she wouldn't have been influenced by Rusty Yates.

[readmoreoften]

108. If Andrea had been a lesbian...

I'd be rounded up and put in a detention center by now.

[Recursion]

98. Isn't she a fundie?

Could that have influenced the jury?

[gully]

134. Unfortunately, I agree.

I also agree with the verdict.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

58. Thank god. (nt)

[Ganja Ninja]

59. When can we declare the rest of the fundies insane? n/t

[Ex Lion Tamer]

63. Go ahead and do so yourself!

You have my support.

For your screen name, if for no other reason!

[warrens]

65. Can we now define all religious fundamentalism as a mental disorder?

Admittedly, not all of them kill their kids, but there's a heavy undercurrent of insanity in all fundamentalism, something not functioning right in the brain.

[Bridget Burke]

78. The Yates family's "spiritual leader" was 'way beyond Fundamentalist....

His name is Michael Peter Woroniecki. This Wikipedia article is said to be "controversial." Anyone finding the "good" side of Woroniecki is welcome to chime in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Peter_Woroniecki

I'm no Fundamentalist, but I doubt they tend to kill their children.

In fact, if she'd belonged to a Real Church--with a congregation--things might have been better. Some of those sharp-tongued, nosy Texas Church Ladies would have suggested that Rusty keep it zipped, after they realized Andrea's problems. They would have insisted she take part in Mothers Day Out--so they could visit Baybrook Mall, laugh at the current "fashions" & have some of those expensive coffee drinks.

[DistressedAmerican]

77. Long Overdue. The First Verdict Was A Travesty.

The most clearly applicable case I have ever seen.

[lastliberalintexas]

79. The first verdict was prosecutorial misconduct, since

the DA's office presented false information from a supposed expert at the trial. More than one person should have lost their professional licenses over that case.

[Flying Dream Blues]

85. Thank GOD. nt

[Recursion]

96. I thought welfare made her do it?

:sarcasm:

[Bluebear]

107. I am amazed & delighted. nt

[savemefromdumbya]

110. she is insane

who in their right mind would do it?

[conflictgirl]

112. I am so glad about that outcome

As a mom of three young kids, what she did disturbs and disgusts me. But having had fairly severe postpartum depression (as opposed to postpartum psychosis, like she had) I also know first-hand that in such a state, you are not thinking clearly or rationally at all. I was more likely to have killed myself than my kids when I had PPD, but I actually was at a point where suicide sounded like a completely rational idea. It was scary.

I feel compassion for her. Not sympathy per se, but compassion nonetheless because she had multiple factors that I believe drove her to do something so monstrous. I don't believe she should ever be free, but I also don't believe she should be put to death either (and considering that she's in Texas, she surely would have been if the jury's findings were different).

[Bridget Burke]

138. Since Ms Yates did not get the death penalty at the first trial...

It was not on the table at the second trial. (Texas juries both times.)

On TV this morning (here in Houston), it appears that she will probably remain under care for the rest of her life. Her destination will be decided today; she will probably go to Rusk State Hospital.

www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/RR/sbr3.html

[readmoreoften]

114. Postpartum Depression Psychosis + 9 years of THIS= insane

From Wikipedia:

Letters from the Woroniecki family were found by investigative author Suzy Spencer that berated Andrea over her unrighteous standing before God. His 1995 video taught that it was better for parents to commit suicide than cause their offspring to stumble and go to hell. Only two months after receiving the harsh letters from the Woroniecki's, Andrea was hospitalized twice for two separate suicide attempts.

<snip>

An audio tape from Woroniecki that Andrea possessed suggested that children were not accountable until the age of twelve, and that "babies were better off aborted than to grow up in the households of "witches and wimps," grow up and face certain judgment in hellfire."

Feeling the weight of hopelessness infused by Woroniecki's condemnation and her inability to get saved so she could in turn save her children, Andrea psychotically reasoned that it would be better for them to drown in their innocent years, be trained instead by God and go to heaven rather than grow up damaged and be sent to hell because of her "bad mothering" according to her prison psychiatric interviews.

*********

Her husband was following the psychotic who preached this for 9 years.

[RB TexLa]

119. I wonder if a man had murdered his 5 children if he would still be alive

this long after it.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

122. Oh, lordy, Mistress Flaming Nostrils will implode on TV tonight.

I think the verdict was just and a long time in coming. I do think the husband bears some responsibility for not seeing this coming. He didn't kill those children but he did nothing to save them either. It was like he left them to play in the street just hoping a car wouldn't come along and hit them. They were in a dangerous situation and he looked the other way.

There will be some self righteous Court TV airheads that will absolutely go ape shit tonight.

[RB TexLa]

123. that nancy gracie thing? she thinks all women have syndromes

and all men are guilty. She'll be all over this as the greatest thing in the world.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

125. I respectfully disagree, Flaming Nostrils has never, ever met

an innocent person - no matter the gender. Her working script is if the person is on trial than they are guilty, fry their ass, move on to next trial.

[Horse with no Name]

120. Justice was served here.

It's about time it was realized.

[dogday]

121. This is absolutely the right verdict

for this woman... She is crazy.. She certainly was out of it when they arrested her that day... She has improved since getting help in jail, and that makes me wonder why in the world she could not get that kind of care on the outside of jail? What a freaked-up world we live in... Have to go to jail to get the proper treatment.....

[Jazz2006]

126. Good. It is the correct and just result. b/t

[Booster]

127. If Andrea Yates doesn't fall into the category of "by reason of

insanity", it shouldn't even be on the books as a defense. This woman, in my mind, was clearly insane at the time she did this. I just wonder what roll her husband played in her getting to that point.

[mvd]

141. This is a good verdict

While I'm not celebrating (children lost their lives,) the standard in every case should be: did the person know right from wrong? I don't think Andrea did. She thought by killing her children, she was saving her kids from the Devil! She'll be in a mental insitution for as long as needed..