This has got to be the dumbest LTTE I have ever read...

[TheMightyFavog]

I've seen dumb LTTEs before, but this one is just beyond idiotic.

Note: Nancy Nusbaum is a one of our candidates for Wisconsin's 8th CD.

A question to ask: Did he fly a desk?

GREEN BAY — I think someone should investigate what Nancy Nusbaum's husband did in the military while he served in the Vietnam War. It would be nice to know what his rank was, how long he served, what years he served and whether or not he flew a desk.

I have a lot of vet friends who have shared a lot about their tours of duty in the Vietnam War. These people who served and actually fought for our country have my respect because they taught me the difference between combat and flying a desk.

I have no sympathy for anyone who served in any war where they were not involved in combat of any kind. Likewise, I do not consider a 3- to 6-month, non-combat tour of duty to be a hardship of any kind.

I am a very proud Republican who will not even consider voting for anyone who uses their service (or husband's service) in a war as a plea for votes.

Leigh Dudenhoeffer

Hey Leigh, you need to get smacked upside the nogging with the fuckin' clue bat, How do you think the military knows how much ammunition it has in a given theatre, or sees to it that the troops get paid, or analyzes intel?

[TheMightyFavog]

1. Forgot to post the link.

Sorry, I haven't had my caffiene yet... :hangover:

http://greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060729/GPG06/607290478/1269/GPGopinion

[EST]

2. Some people are just stupid, dangerously stupid.

Dangerously stupid people are convinced, beyond doubt, that their worldview is beyond question. And you can safely bet they are republican. ugh!

[Jackpine Radical]

31. Oh, yes. That level of moral certainty

is invariably Republican. In his latest book John Dean was talking about the authoritarian personality and the attempt to study authoritarians on the left. The problem was that they couldn't find any authoritarians on the Americal left. They were all right-wingers.

[EST]

39. What I find disquieting, seriously disturbing, is that

John Dean, an obviously intelligent man, is only now, in the intellectual maturity of his career, discovering some of the ways that people are put together.
It seems that most of the humans that are drawn to a liberal or progressive point of view have a generally more penetrating radar, usually assuming such an ability so common that it rarely deserved comment. Mr. Dean is to be commended for his epiphany and valued for the weight he places on honesty and his public stature, which gives him a bigger clue bat.

I would like to see a self-selected team of personality peekers, working backward from a fully developed authoritarian construct to early childhood, to see how the empathy tracks got so short circuited. It might give us a more scientific method of selecting or evaluating potential leaders. Forensic psychiatry?

[Jackpine Radical]

3. So tell us, Leigh...

Are you of draft age? Were you ever? Did you rush out & enlist & put in for the infantry during any of our many wars since 1964 or so?

And BTW, there are something like 10 support troops for every combat soldier.

BTW--"flying a desk" is a military aviation term. In the aviation branches, they have a lot more people fixing the planes than they do flying them. I think the airplane drivers kind of appreciate having mechanics, cooks, etc. around.

And BTW I'm an ex-grunt. 1st Cav.

[H2O Man]

9. We'll need further evidence

that your service meets the high standard of moral purity and superiority that Leigh demands.

[Jackpine Radical]

12. I don't do moral purity

and not even superiority.

I guess I just don't make the cut.

[H2O Man]

13. Leigh warned us ..... n/t

[Why Syzygy]

4. Has she signed up for that 3-6

month TDY? No hardship at all. Here's the contract. Take off.

[Arkansas Granny]

5. I'll have to agree with you. This letter is pretty dumb. I wonder

if the author has bothered to investigate the service record of the candidates she chooses to support. I also wonder if she realizes that the individual soldier rarely, if ever, has any choice in what capacity he/she is assigned to serve. This "very proud Republican" has done nothing with this letter except to expose her ignorance.

[TheMightyFavog]

7. In this particular congrassional race, It would probably be John Gard.

Gard was born in '63, got out of college in '86. I don't recall him ever being in the military, though.

[magellan]

6. I expect she voted for Bush** however

I have no sympathy for anyone who served in any war where they were not involved in combat of any kind. Likewise, I do not consider a 3- to 6-month, non-combat tour of duty to be a hardship of any kind.

I am a very proud Republican who will not even consider voting for anyone who uses their service (or husband's service) in a war as a plea for votes.

The hypocrisy is a neverending deluge from the Right.

[senseandsensibility]

26. Oh, she obviously voted for chimp

and the sick thing is, she probably has memorized some screwed up talking points from limpballs explaining why chimpy's military record, and only his, is off bounds.

[acmejack]

8. No one wants her "sympathy", the silly fool...

"Anyone who served in any war and was not involved in combat of any kind" was fortunate, not negligent. If she had any knowledge at all about the the Military she would be familiar with that dreaded phrase "The needs of the service" which was all the explanation required for anything from extending a tour to reassigning you to counting widgets in Dorkland, Texas for the duration. No one asks the member what you would care to do, or if they do, they don't listen to the answer.

[no_hypocrisy]

10. Okay, let me get this straight.

If you were drafted and didn't go to Canada (or join the National Guard --and went AWOL), or you volunteered, and went to Vietnam, (and you didn't go AWOL), your military service is invalid if you didn't kill or try to kill the "enemy"?

What warped logic.

[union_maid]

11. I wonder how a medic would fare with Leigh

I was just thinking of someone I knew who was drafted, went to Vietnam, didn't want to kill, so he signed up for medic training. He served there for about a year in the middle of all the dangers that faced the combat troops. He just tried to keep them alive instead of killing the enemy.

[sarge43]

14. Yo Puddin'

A quote from The Oxford Companion to American Military History

The combat service support forces form the "tail" in the often-cited "tooth-to tail' ratio. In fact, the analogy is poor one. A somewhat better characterization of a field army as a living organism would be to consider the staff the brain; the combat arms, the arms and legs; the combat support branches, the eyes, ears, and nervous system; and the combat service support forces as the heart and circulatory system, which provide nourishment to the other elements.

Although the bulk of combat service support is provided out of direct contact with the enemy, these troops on the modern battlefield often become engaged in direct combat with the enemy. Soldiers receive basic combat training, and with the exception of army medical personnel and chaplains, are armed. No small percentage of the Medals of Honor and other decoration awarded for gallantry on the battlefield have been given to combat service support soldiers. -- Charles R. Shrader

Or to put it another way, on behalf of the following "desk jockeys" --

My former finance, a pay clerk, who was killed in Nam when his chopper was shot down. By the way, our children to-be died with him

My husband, ammo man, who suffers from post trauma. We're waiting for the Agent Orange cancer to kick in

A friend, female personnel puke, caught in the Tet Offense attack at Tan Son Nhut. Thanks to flying glass spent a lot of time having her face reconstructed

Another friend, female fire fighter, saved a man from a burning building, but also spend time at the Brooks Burn Center being made presentable again

The mess steward who during the attack on Pearl Harbor manned one of the ship's anti-aircraft guns after its crew had been killed or wounded

The eight nurses named on the Wall

Thanks heaps, you clueless bitch

[TheMightyFavog]

16. Damn, I wish i could see you tell this person this to their face!

An awesome resopnse to a truly asinine statement.

[sarge43]

19. I'll let you know the next time I get the chance

:evilgrin:

[Jackpine Radical]

32. Maybe you'd consider working this into a letter for the GB paper...(nt)

[TheFarseer]

15. what about flying in Alabama?

or better yet skipping out on that to work on a political campaign?

Now you can swiftboat not only the candidates but their relatives.

[sarge43]

17. Flying?

Our faux CinC failed "to accomplish annual medical examination." AO-87, DAAF-NGB, 19Sep72. He dodged his mandatory flight physical. He couldn't fly any aircraft after that. He was from then on a (gasp) desk jockey.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. Wow! DO spread it to every military person you can find!

"I have no sympathy for anyone who served in any war where they were not involved in combat of any kind."

Way to "support the troops", bubba.

[ima_sinnic]

20. yet the dumb@$$ most likely voted for AWOL *, who skipped out

of a goldbrick assignment

[ThomWV]

21. During Viet Nam roughly 1 out of 10 Servicemen Saw Combat

The ratio was constant throughout the war and it wouldn't surprise me a bit to find out its still about the same today - even with excessive contracting out of duties which SHOULD be conducted by GIs such as KP and all the other housekeeping chores.

As for the couple of months of service complaint, ask Wesley Clark about that one. As I recall he was shot up badly at about the 2 month mark of his first tour and ended up spending months in hospital recovering from his multiple and very serious gun shot wounds.

[sarge43]

23. Much depends upon how narrowly combat is defined

Spousal unit war story

As mentioned he was munition maint. 14 hour day, standing ankle deep in mud, loading Mk82s for transport to the flight line, only break 15 minutes wolfing down K rations or 20 minutes when the mini-monsoon came through and they couldn't see their hands in front of their faces. Usually too exhausted to eat, so stumbled to the hooch, fast shower, hit the rack. Half hour later the first sapper attack on the base, do the hundred yard dash to the bunker, attack over, back to hooch. By the third attack, "fuck this shit" and stay in the bunker, especially if an air strike was called in. He said there were many nights he couldn't make it up the hooch steps, just drop half way.
This, by the way, is how many "desk jockeys" earned their Purple Hearts, getting hit by flying shrap and other stuff. Then there was parameter guard duty three times a week, no enough APs.

Not Normandy Beach, but I submit it was combat.

[fudge stripe cookays]

22. I'm expecting at least one person on this board to send...

the paper a reply including all the Repukes who had something better to do during the war.

Stupid twit.

Sarge, I loved your answer. And I'm sorry so many of your friends and family have to deal with so much fallout. :hug:

[sarge43]

24. Thank you, fudge stripe cookays

Compared to many, we got off fairly light. At least most of us are still here to bear witness.

[soup]

25. Is it the Silver Star that bugs her?

>Nancy and her husband John, a Silver Star recipient from his military service in Vietnam, have been married for 36 years and raised their family in De Pere.<
http://www.nancy2006.com/about.php

3. Criteria: The Silver Star is awarded to a person who, while serving in any capacity with the U.S. Army, is cited for gallantry in action against an enemy of the United States while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force, or while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. The required gallantry, while of a lesser degree than that required for award of the Distinguished Service Cross, must nevertheless have been performed with marked distinction. Soldiers who received a citation for gallantry in action during World War I may apply to have the citation converted to the Silver Star Medal.
http://www.americal.org/awards/achv-svc.htm

Or maybe she's seeing red because of John Nusbaums' beret:


as seen here:
http://www.nancy2006.com/index.php

Her heros have always been conboys?

"I've been to war. I've raised twins. If I
had a choice, I'd rather go to war." gwb
Houston Chronicle, January 2002
http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/01/ma_217_01.html

>"I learned some good lessons from Vietnam," said Mr. Bush, who trained as a pilot but never served in Southeast Asia. "First, there must be a clear mission. Secondly, the politics ought to stay out of fighting a war. There was too much politics during the Vietnam War. There was too much concern in the White House about political standing."<
http://nucnews.net/nucnews/2002nn/0203nn/020314nn.htm

Nah, it's probably because Ms. Nusbaum's husband is a flipflopper - he voted for * before he 'saw the light' and campaigned against him:

At a campaign event with veterans here Friday at a railroad museum, Rassman fought back tears several times as he introduced the senator as his hero. Rassman was introduced by John Nusbaum, a Vietnam veteran who said he voted for Bush and the president's father twice but declared with a quiver in his voice, "I can no longer support the current leadership."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64376-2004May28.html

:banghead:

[sarge43]

34. Took a close look at Mr Nusbaum's picture

He was Air Force pararescue. Those guys were medics who went in with teams to rescue downed pilots, often behind enemy lines, often air dropped in. Nasty, nasty duty. He earned that Silver Star. Puddin' better not run her mouth to a former AF fighter jock and Nam vet; he'll rip her a new one.

Hand salute SSgt Nusbaum.

[TheMightyFavog]

36. Yeah...

I thought he was an Army paratrooper, they wear Maroon berets, as well, IIRC. I can't tell from the pic if his uniform is Army or Air Force, though.

[sarge43]

37. Airborne wears red berets.

Definitely AF, check the stripes.

[treestar]

27. So she voted for Kerry and not for Dubya, right?

What a moran.

[LSK]

28. so its safe to assume he was a Kerry voter?

:patriot:

[sarge43]

29. One more thought, then I'll shut up

I'd like to ask Puddin' what she would say to the ghosts of Dwight Eisenhower, Chester Nimitz and Henry Arnold. These men commanded the US Army, US Navy and Army Air Force during the Big One. They successfully defeated formidable enemies. We owe them, among others, our collective ass. Here's the thing, all of them were "desk jockeys", never saw combat. During Number One, Eisenhower was a training officer - tanks. Nimitz and Arnold were staff officers. Of course, WWII and they were still flying desks.

There's only one thing that may be asked of anyone who served: Did they honorably do their duty as it was given to them to do?

[niyad]

30. I guess that means that you didn't vote for the chickenhawk contingent,

right, leigh? what a self-righeous piece of hooie. get thee to a recruiter at once, and walk your talk.

[B Calm]

38. But... George Bush gallantly protected us from an invasion

by the Mexican Air Force... (until he went AWOL)

[TheMightyFavog]

33. kick for the afternoon crowd

:kick:

[mnhtnbb]

35. I'm a proud bimbo-ass stupid dittohead who does what I'm told

which includes not thinking about what I'm saying, says Leigh.

[Opusnone]

40. I don't see that the argument is dumb

I would more celebrate a grunt over an officer any day, but I come from a famliy of grunts.

I personally hail any who have served the US honorably and not simply to kill or enrich themselves monetarily.