What do you think of organic food?

[survivor999]

Please write a sentence explaining your vote :)

Edit: Added an option, as requested

[derby378]

1. You missed an option

Namely, "I buy some organic, but wouldn't mind getting more if I could swing it."

[Fleshdancer]

6. that's the answer I would have chosen too n/t

[soothsayer]

11. me, three!

[AspenRose]

15. Ditto

That's why I hit the Farmer's Markets....sometimes there's some good deals.

[IronLionZion]

25. Yup, me too.

What we need is more supply. I'm really interested in organic meat considering the horrible things that happen to animals used for food, like forced cannibalism in cows.

[MercutioATC]

2. Other: I like organic food and occasionally buy it.

Also, my parents (who live about 45 minutes away) have a certified organic farm, so I usually pick up some stuff when I visit.

[Cha]

38. Whoa! Are you

Lucky! I have lots of friends, though, who have Organic Farms.

[MercutioATC]

45. I know...and it's REAL organic, not this johnny-come-lately crap.

Raised composted beds...no chemicals for over 15 years. You can taste the difference.

[Cha]

47. That's another great point..

the taste is Phenomenal!

[MercutioATC]

48. Organic potatoes vs. regular potatoes? NO comparison.

The health benefits are secondary for me. I just like the way organic produce tastes.

[Cha]

55. Nevertheless, it's helping

your bod! :toast:

[Jax]

83. I officially love your parents MercutioATC

"not this johnny-come-lately crap".

I agree. Long time, long term, REAL organics. To me and mine anyway.

Take care of the earth and the earth will take care of you.



:thumbsup:

[Ediacara]

3. Organic food, where I live anyway

is very, very low quality, and about 2-3x as expensive as "normal" food. There's no justification for the prices charged at all.

ON EDIT: to add some prices: $3.00 for a small head of leaf lettuce (regular $0.89-1.29), $2.00-3.00/lb for broccoli (regular $0.89/lb), $3.00-4.00 for a 1/2 gallon of milk (regular $1.99-2.29), and $6.29 for a pound of butter (regular $2.50-300).

[jpak]

19. My organic/natural foods coop is great

and it's thriving in the reddest part of the Redneck Riviera.

Prices are competitive with big box grocery stores and the quality is superb.

And lots of products to choose from too.

It's too bad the coop movement died a slow death in the seventies...

[Ediacara]

26. The coöp here is hilariously overpriced

Instead of being some sort of inexpensive community grocery, it's totally an overpriced version of Larry's Market (which is a hugely overpriced yuppy-chain in the Seattle area). The prices I listed are from a locally owned (but standard) grocery store. $6 for a pound of butter!?

[Matariki]

91. pcc?

i don't know why i'm still a member. $5 loaves of bread and coleslaw or $7 a pound. blah.

[Recursion]

39. Look for an organic CSA

Community-supported agriculture offers people affordable access to produce, and it's often organic (check with the individual farm).

Here are some lists of CSAs:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/csa/
http://www.localharvest.org/csa/
http://ww2.attra.ncat.org/where.php/csa.html

These will be cheaper than farmer's markets and co-ops because you're buying a share of the harvest ahead of time, which means you're bearing some of the risk of failure with the farmer. Because of that, the farmer doesn't have to cover that risk in the price (except in the sense that the harvest fails, you get less produce). Also, you'll be supporting small (non-corporate) farms, and getting at least one step closer to the process by which your food is made.

[valerief]

4. I try to buy organic for home consumption. Of course, with Congress

redefining organic, I'm not too sure how different it is from non-organic food.

I nearly always buy organic OJ. I wish there was some way to tell real organic from Republican-Congress organic.

[derby378]

8. With milk, it's fairly easy

Check the expiration date. If it expires in six weeks instead of just two, there's a good chance that milk you're holding is organic. rBST increases milk production, but it also cuts the shelf life of milk by a significant amount.

Buy your milk from Organic Valley and you'll most likely be in great shape as far as milk goes. I've heard very few complaints about these guys.

[AllieB]

21. When you buy Organic Valley, you support family farms also

Since Horizon Organics was bought by Dean Foods, there's some question whether their practices fall into the 'organic' category. http://www.organicconsumers.org/sos/factory060303.cfm

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

24. Actually, the organic milk has a longer shelf life because most of it is..

ultra-pastuerized. You can get it just "pastuerized" and it has the same shelf life as non-organic milk. Personally, when I was a buyer at a health food store, I bought the ultra-pastuerized just because I was far less likely to have some expire on the shelf. I imagine most stores carry the ultra-pasteurized for the same reason.

[Recursion]

32. Or, you can get out of the pasteurization racket...

...altogether and buy real milk.

[Bill McBlueState]

60. USA Today had a story about this yesterday

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-08-06-raw-milk-usat_x.htm

There's a lot about how, not surprisingly, people tend to get bacterial infections from milk that hasn't been pasteurized.

[Recursion]

63. Heh... what they don't mention...

Is that non-pasteurized milk drinkers per capita get fewer bacterial infections than pasteurized milk drinkers.

And both raw and pasteurized milk are safer than lettuce.

It really didn't trouble you that the article mentioned that 58 people got sick from raw milk, but didn't mention what rate that is among raw milk drinkers, and what the comparable rate among pasteurized milk drinkers is? I can tell you: it's about 0.02%, and the comparable rate among pasteurized milk drinkers was something like 0.4%

[Bill McBlueState]

67. oh, no, I certainly didn't mean to suggest

that USA Today was careful and accurate in its presentation of data. That would be a first if they were.

[Nikia]

78. You shouldn't get any bacterial infections from pasteurized milk

Unless you contaminated it yourself.
Raw milk can be safe, but sometimes it isn't and you don't know when it isn't. If as many people drank unpasteurized milk as pasteurized milk and it was sold and distributed by large companies, there would be outbreaks all the time. I think that since most sellers of raw milk are small and possibily breaking the law, they are more careful than the typical farmer or dairy company since they fear losing everything and/or being arrested for selling unpasteurized milk.
You are taking some risk with your health, which might be alright if you are a young healthy adult who isn't pregnant. I suppose that you eat raw beef and raw eggs too.

[Recursion]

88. I didn't say I drink raw milk

Though as I'm something of a fromage snob I do prefer cheeses made from raw milks (yoghurts too) -- you can definitely taste the difference. But I also strongly support people's right to eat and drink whatever they want.

I also recognize that the data are very clear: the per-capita incidence of contamination in pasteurized milk is higher than in raw milk. Yes, that's probably because raw milk dairies are smaller and much more careful given the thin legal ice they're treading on. So, if more and more people started drinking raw milk, the per-capita contamination rate would approach that of pasteurized milk. And in any case, as I said above both raw and pasteurized milk are statistically safer than lettuce.

I used to think my raw milk friends were crazy, but they did clue me in to a little experiment that changed my mind somewhat. If you can acquire some raw milk, put it in a bowl and cover it with cheesecloth. Leave the bowl out somewhere at room temperature. Do the same with some pasteurized milk. The pasteurized milk will be rancid in a few days. But in those same few days, the raw milk won't be rancid; it will be clabber, which is actually pretty good stuff (I used to have it as a kid on my grandparents' farm). Unpasteurized milk "keeps" pretty well as clabber; we're just so used to how rancid pasteurized milk gets that we assume all milk is like that.

As far as I know, direct sales of unpasteurized milk are legal in a handful of states, but cow shares are pretty much legal everywhere (that is, I buy a share of a cow, and get a share of that cow's milk, which I can then do whatever I want with). So the ice isn't as thin as it may seem.

[upi402]

98. good info, thanks

[conflictgirl]

87. Actually it's ultra-pasteurization that extends the shelf life so long

Most organic milk now is ultra-pasteurized, which is why it can have a long time until the expiration date. As far as I know, rBST doesn't affect shelf life at all. I don't think ultra-pasteurization is a great thing ultimately, because it changes the molecular structure of the milk and makes it further away from milk in its most natural state (ie raw, unpasteurized, un-homogenized). Obviously in this day and age most people don't think raw, unpasteurized, unhomogenized milk is safe, but I do wonder what effects there may be from changing the milk to that degree. I think it makes it taste a little strange when milk is ultra-pasteurized also. Organic Valley in the 1/2 gallon cartons is usually ultra-pasteurized, but they do still have some regular pasteurized milk available in full gallons (and it has shorter shelf life). I've dealt with Organic Valley a lot as a writer for the natural food industry and they're a great company. I don't have many complaints about them (though I wish they wouldn't have switched to ultra-pasteurization in their half-gallons). Horizon, on the other hand, well we won't go there. ;-)

[LostinVA]

42. See if it says "Certified Organic"

[valerief]

59. Is that different from USDA Certified Organic? The one this

Repub Congress is hacking away at?

You know, like this stuff.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/SOS/protect100605.cfm

[LostinVA]

64. I was informed that this is NOT the same thing

The link you sent me is about foods labeled "Organic," not "Certified Organic."

[valerief]

72. I was asking about whether USDA Certified Organic is the same as

Certified Organic. I only provided the link to show the problems with USDA Certified Organic in the story.

I can never find out the whole organic story from the web.

[back2basics909]

5. If you think organic is expensive..

Try this site, look for a local Community Supported Agriculture farm. It can work out much cheaper than a supermarket.

http://www.localharvest.org

[notadmblnd]

7. Pssst... two words.....

"Trader Joe's" for reasonably priced natural and organic foods. Google it, and see if there's one near you. You won't be disappointed.

[OwnedByFerrets]

12. We buy it anytime we can....

we get too many chemicals in our bodies. On a related subject, I had been using Splenda because I have to fight my weight problem. After about a month of use, I noticed my ankles and wrists hurting and feeling swelled up all the time. We went thru a check list of known causes and narrowed it down to the use of the Splenda. After completely stopping the use of this product, the swelling and pain went away within days. It really scary to think about what we are being told by the FDA is safe, but really is not.:-(

[CountAllVotes]

17. you might try succanat

If you haven't already. It is sweet and organic - easy enough to find too and not horribly expensive. You can use it for cooking (substitute).

[AllieB]

22. Try Stevia. It's natural and doesn't raise your bloood sugar.

Things like honey and succanat can cause spikes in blood sugar, thereby stalling weight loss and causing cravings. I use liquid Stevia in baking and the occasional powdered stevia in my cocoa. :-)

http://www.steviainfo.com

[valerief]

62. I use the powder packets sometimes in coffee and tea.

It's not bad. I would never use artificial sweetners. n/t

[MrCoffee]

35. Trader Joe's Sucks

I refuse to go in there. The layout is god-awful. I get all antsy and irritable whenever I set foot in there. Those Hawaiian shirts they wear are barely containing the seething rage of the employees.

[MercutioATC]

50. Wow! The Trader Joe's here in Westlake is completely different.

Granted, people seem to lose all sense of normal movement when the enter a Trader Joe's (aimlessly milling around, blocking aisles, etc.) but their selection is great, the prices good, and the employees are cheerful and helpful.

I shop at TJ's all of the time...love it.

[MrCoffee]

53. Exactly!

"Granted, people seem to lose all sense of normal movement when the enter a Trader Joe's (aimlessly milling around, blocking aisles, etc.)"

What happens to generally normal-looking people when they walk into a TJ's? Are they hypnotized by the super-trendy handcrafted labels explaining that the frozen meatballs were processed by native whoevers using some revolutionary eco-organic-bio-blah-blah-blah that's going to save the world for meatballs? Is it all the vino? Is it the jaunty angle of the aisles? Whatever it is, it makes me utterly insane. So, for the safety of others, I just don't shop there. If I did, you'd see film at 11 on the nightly news.

[MercutioATC]

57. Well, I DO understand your frustration. It drives me nuts, too.

Luckily, I have an odd work schedule. I just try to go when most people are at work.

[LifeDuringWartime]

36. TJ's

i shop at trader joe's whenever i can. there are still a few things i get from the regular supermarket though.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

9. None of the above?

I grow about 95% of my own veggies and I garden organically. 95% of my milk and milk products are the same. All of my eggs are organic from free range chickens (all of whom have names and are very happy girls) and they're nothing like ones you'd buy in the store that come labeled "organic".

Having said all of that, I don't know if I'd pay for what they consider to be organic goods in the grocery. My understanding is the standards they go by aren't nearly as strict as the ones we home gardeners use. Also, they are over charging due to the fact that it's popular to try and eat foods that are less likely to kill you down road. How messed up is that?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

10. Other: I thought everything that had big carbon molecules was organic. -nt

[fernsibal]

16. Farmer's markets

are the way to go, in my mind, whether organic or not. You are buying fresh ingredients locally. Some of the produce at our farmer's market in Sacramento is organic, some isn't. And the organic *is* more expensive, so I don't usually buy it (except for these phenomenal peaches that cost $1 a piece but they're to die for.) But the customers and farmers aren't looking for perfect unblemished "supersized" produce---they are looking for flavor, and for the vegetables they are used to having that come from a garden. There are a lot of ethnicities shopping there, too--and those people are used to the kind of produce they had in their own countries--full of flavor, but not pumped up like silicone implanted you know whats.

[Recursion]

34. Oh hardy-har-har

Back when I was in the Marines, we had artillery that was "organic" to our unit. I guess that means the howizters were carbon-based?

Oh, that's right, in different fields words can have different meanings. And in the field of agriculture, the term "organic" is pretty well defined and different from its meaning in chemistry.

[Bill McBlueState]

61. hey, no science allowed!

You science-worshippers are always ruining threads with your demands that words have precise definitions. ;)

[Recursion]

71. heh

"organic" does have a precise definition (if a politically-determined one) in agriculture and nutrition.

That definition is different from the definition of "organic" in chemistry ('organic molecules'), or in management ('organic capabilities'), or in biology ('organic evolution').

[TahitiNut]

13. It's better than inorganic food.

The inorganic minerals are hard to chew. :dunce:

[survivor999]

23. Hey! Are you

affiliated with mister berst Inc? :)

[warrens]

14. Somewhere between three and four

Not all organic food offers any real benefit. The good thing about it is that theoretically someone somewhere is not cutting corners, one hopes. But in reality, they have so many loopholes in USDA regs that someone looking to cut corners and use Organic on their product can get away with murder. It's also a toothless law; unless a competitor blows the whistle, who's the wiser?

[fernsibal]

18. also, there are some things that are very important

to buy organic, which I discovered after reading "a diet for a poisoned America" by the Baskin Robbins heir. Certain foods have a really high concentration of pesticide residues. Butter, raisins, and peanut butter are three things I ALWAYS buy organic because the pesticides concentrate in these foods. Also full fat milk contains high pesticide residues, and certain fruits like strawberries and melons. Bananas never have residue b/c the skin protects them, and onions and garlic don't either (b/c bugs don't like them, anyway!)The other reason to buy organic is to protect the farm workers and the environment.

[AllieB]

20. I always buy organic when I can get it, especially meat and dairy

I don't want to ingest all those hormones. Plus, I have Lyme disease, and my specialist suggested that I eat as clean as possible.

[WePurrsevere]

27. Buy it when we can & grow it when we can. My cats favorite is the organic

catnip that grows wild all over our property. :D (and yes, they love to eat it not just roll around in it. B-) )

[slackmaster]

28. I buy it mainly because of the quality

Organic foods tend to be fresher and more flavorful than commercial equivalents.

I use no pesticides in my home vegetable garden.

[Texasgal]

29. I honestly think that Oragnic foods

Need to be priced better so that your average family can have access to it.

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

86. no kidding

maybe a good way to do this would be local/regional confederations of CSA farms.

My CSA is excellent so far, this week I got 14 tomatos, 10 bell peppers,
2 bags of assorted greens, 2 cucumber, 2 squash, a few beets, flowers,
sage, pint of cherry tomatoes, for about $20.
Not every week is quite that plentiful, but it typically works out to
be cheaper than a grocery store.

The problem is its difficult access for people without cars
and/or live in urban areas.

A CSA confederation might pool resources to facilitate getting good
produce to those who wouldn't otherwise be able.

my only gripe with this system is you have to be willing to eat a few
bugs or spend extra time sorting your salad.

[KingFlorez]

30. I buy organic sometimes

But it's so expensive, I don't always get a whole lot of it.

[laundry_queen]

31. I voted for the last option.

There is very little for organic options here, but there are some. However, the small amount of organic stuff there is, is usually ridiculously overpriced considering the quality - meaning most of it is rotting by the time the grocery stores get it. If it looks relatively ok, I'll buy it over conventional, even at the 3x higher prices (we can somewhat afford it). We rarely buy organic milk because it's just not available on a regular basis. Our beef comes from a local farmer friend who calls himself 'organic' but isn't certified. I do try and get mostly organic for my kids' snacks and cookies. We are planning on moving out to a farm in our 6-year plan, partially to become self sufficient, but a big part of that will be to have a large organic garden.

[datasuspect]

33. people are way too wimpy nowadays

antibaterial soap this, organic that blah blah

i contend that ingesting the chemicals, toxins, and bacteria makes you stronger and helps to build better tolerance.

[LostinVA]

43. Oh Gawd -- do you like a nice Drain-O latte after dinner?

[datasuspect]

46. that sounds nice

a good accompaniment to raw pork.

[Cha]

37. I always buy Organic and

have been since 1985..it's not too expensive when you think about the costs of putting poisons in your body and the money you'll save from hospitals and doctors in the future.

I still realize it's not for everyone but I'm excited to see that it has become so much more mainstream over the years. Organic is helping the Planet and those who care enough to shell out the extra dough.

[The Wielding Truth]

41. Have you noticed any improvement in your health?

[Cha]

49. Oh YEAH!

I had an herbalist tell me in Colorado many years ago that the hardest toxins our livers had to eliminate in our daily lives were the ones from chemicals used on conventional produce..made sense to me.

[The Revolution]

40. It's a scam

At least some of it. It may be different at a farmer's market or something like that, but I know in the grocery store that I worked at, some of the "organic" produce was exactly the same thing as the regular stuff (it literally came out of the same box).

[LostinVA]

44. Then they were breaking the law and were the scam, not Organic

There are still quite strict regulations and laws for foods labeled "Certified Organic."

I buy what I can -- always dairy, bread, and peanut butter, and as much meat and produce as I can afford.

[Xithras]

75. The workaround is that they leave out the "certified"

One of my local groceries was recently caugt doing the same thing the UP described...they put regular fruits in their Organic area to charge higher prices for them. Since they WERE pesticide free, and some people describe "organic" as simply being pesticide free, they technically didn't break the law or do anything fraudulent.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. No I Could Care Less Option?

Some of the stuff I buy says organic, some of it doesn't, but I never seek it out or avoid it. It just is what it is. If what I'm buying says organic, great! If it doesn't, so what? Isn't really an issue to me. I just then had nowhere to vote LOL

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. Organic tomatoes are tastier.

That's about all I can contribute.

[Nutmegger]

54. Organic all the way.

It's a little expensive but I'm not eating crappy food ladened with chemicals and hormones.

A Trader Joe's opened up not too far away from where I work; it's totally worth it.

[deaniac21]

56. I like free range veal but other than that all of my food is synthetic.

[Bill McBlueState]

58. I think the key is to buy local

"Organic" seems to be pretty nebulously defined. Large supermarkets can use that and similar terms to create the impression that some of the food they've shipped across the country from some anonymous farming conglomerate is better for you than other food they've shipped across the country from some anonymous farming conglomerate.

If you shop at local farm stands and cooperatives, you'll know exactly where your food is coming from, and you can support sustainable agricultural practices. You don't have to guess about what various buzzwords may or may not mean.

Granted, local produce tends to be more expensive, but it's usually fresher.

[LostinVA]

65. However, alot of local produce and dairy are about as bad as

Big Agri -- they often use sludge, pesticides, growth hormones, etc. Sometimes they are good, sometimes they aren't.

[Recursion]

70. But the benefit is, you can find out

You can actually go to the farm, talk to the people, and see for yourself what their operation is like. That's what I like so much about being in a CSA, too.

[Recursion]

66. Local is important

The biggest part of the price of groceries is the distribution. The more you buy local and support a local distribution chain, the cheaper it gets (it's already cheaper here in DC to do a CSA than to buy "normal" groceries at Giant or Safeway). Plus, it reduces use of gas to transport it, supports the local ecosystem and economy, etc.

[Bill McBlueState]

69. that's a good point about transportation

I also like that when you eat local produce, you can be more in tune with the local growing seasons. I can buy apples any time of the year, but it's more exciting to wait until it cools off and the leaves start to turn and you can eat fresh local apples.

[Neecy]

68. I drink organic coffee

USDA requires that all coffee labeled organic must be stored in pesticide-free warehouses. This is important because coffee is warehoused in (breathable) burlap bags and pesticide spraying can easily permeate to the beans. While roasting will burn most of this, there's still a trace chemical element that I'd rather not put in my body.

[survivor999]

73. I buy organic veggies and fruits

and whatever else I can find. I just don't buy fruit with thin peel (e.g., cherries or apples) unless they are organic. Too many pesticides on conventional fruits.

[longship]

74. Food is good for you. EAT FOOD every day.

I don't care if it is organic or not. I eat it all.
Food is good stuff. I highly recommend it over anything else.

[Lilith Velkor]

84. Food is what's for dinner

Food is good food.

[Xithras]

76. My own garden isn't even organic.

I couldn't keep the ants and bugs out, so I went back to spraying. I wish I knew the secret to keeping a bug free organic garden, but nothing I tried worked.

That said, when I buy in a store I attempt to buy organic whenever I can afford it.

[Truthiness Inspector]

77. I picked the last choice

I would love to only buy organic food, but it's not always available or affordable.

Ideally, I'd like to grow my own veggies one day.

[MellowOne]

79. Organic is more expensive, I'd buy more if I could afford it

But the taste and nutritional value is worth the cost. I buy as much as I can afford.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

80. I think it's an excellent marketing tool

and that's not to denigrate it: everything in life is marketing, and like anything else people do, it's only as bad or as good as the purpose it's put to.

Organic foods satisfy consumers' desire to achieve balance and simplicity in their lives. They help consumers in many lifestyle niches connect with values that are important to them: wellness, healthy environment, sustainable agriculture, cruelty-free food, longevity (and immortality), survivalism, and the desire to create meaningful community.

Do I buy organic? A few things. Conventional supermarkets now carry organic produce, meats, dairy and packaged foods, and they will carry more as consumers demonstrate that they are willing to pay more for them.

[BlooInBloo]

81. Luddite scam.

[depakid]

82. Amazing that 12 votes are for scam

Goes to show how little science education- and how MUCH advertising and propaganda Americans are exposed to.

[survivor999]

92. Exactly right

I know a guy who argues that organic food is a huge scam that only destroy small growers who use conventional methods. Talk about nuts.

[depakid]

94. "conventional"

Even the word itself shows how out of touch some people are with reality.

Organophosphates- "conventional" right?

[Nevernose]

85. My step-dad was an organic vegetarian. It killed him.

A massive B-12 defiency led to Alzheimer's, evetually, and some other brand-new, never-seen-before neurological disease. He had good gealth care, by selling everything he ever owned: the family doctor was the head of neurology at UCLA and one of the foremost experts on Alzheimer's and similar diseases, and the guy who did his MRIs was actually the INVENTOR of the MRI, to name a couple of examples.

Maybe since the mid-nineties statistics and diagnostic methods have changed, but ten years ago, one-third of all Alzheimer's diagnoses were actually protein defienct (the B12 protein), and usually involved strict vegetarians (no animal products at all, strictly, including fish and dairy). While B12 is available through vegtarian means (simple things like nuts, for instance, or vitamin pills), what happens is that the enzyme which processes B12 is also the same enzyme that processes meats. After a few years, the bodies of vegetarians sometimes stop producing the enzyme that processes meat -- and therefore B12. Ususally the body will begin producing this enzyme again if even a slight amount of animal products are eaten -- a few slices of cheese, for instance -- but after a few decades, the loss of this enzyme is irreversible.

Injectiosn of B12 can still be administered. There are two commonly avaible, a water-based one and a cyanide-based one (I believe the water-based one is adimnistered to those who have another medical condition, and the cyanide based one is administered to those starved of B12). However, by this point it can still be too late; the body might have simply lost it's ability to process B12 altogether. While very rare, it's possible. Also, some neurological researchers believe that there may be a link between protein deficiency and the weakness it causes in the brain and succeptibility to conditions like Parkinson's, C-J, and Alzheimer's, much like smoking might lead to heart disease.

Of corse, eating meat is still probably a hell of a lot worse for you than eating turnips, but there is still a small chance. Maybe "everything in moderation" is how our bodies were designed to function?

Sorry about the rant -- I'm not bitter or anything ;)

And yes, I'd eat organic if I could afford it, including the occasional organic meat.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

89. You can get B12 from nutritional yeast.

A lack of B12 shouldn't be an issue in a proper vegan diet. And organic has nothing to do with any of it.

[LeftyMom]

95. What does that have to do with organic food?

Organic vegetables are generally grown in soil fertilized with manure, which increases B-12 levels in the resulting food. While this is not a reliable source of B-12, organic foods are not at all B-12 deficient compared to thier conventional counterparts.

Also, what sort of vegetarian was he?

Ovo-lacto vegetarians get plenty of B-12 from thier diets, while vegans have few reliable sources, but many vegan foods (such as soymilk, nutritional yeast and tofu) contain supplemental B-12. Additionally all vegans are advised to take a B-12 supplement as something of a safety measure.

Most doctors are taught very little about nutrition generally and nothing about specific nutritional concerns for vegetarians in medical school, so it's quite possible that you were given incorrect information, especially since they were apparently unaware that B-12 is not a protein. It is highly unlikely that either a vegetarian diet or the consumption of organic foods was the cause of your father's B-12 deficiency.

On the other hand, studies dating back to at least 1987 have shown that B-12 deficiency is common in otherwise healthy older people. Current information suggests that high dose oral supplementation is ample treatment (and superior to injection) in most cases, even when some degree of malabsorption is present, though it's still common to treat the deficiency with injections.

Causes of B-12 deficiency are insufficient diet, malabsorption and gastrointestinal disease. Insufficient B-12 in the diet, though a theoretical risk for those on vegan diets, is exceedingly rare. It is somewhat more common with those eating mactobiotic foods, even though macrobiotic diets generally include some animal foods (primarily fish.) However dietary insufficiency is almost unheard of in those eating caloricly sufficient and varied diets of any sort. It occurs much more commonly in elderly persons eating small emounts of nutritionally deficient foods, such as tea and toast, and in alcoholics. Malabsorption is caused by autoimmune disease, and rarely gastrointestinal conditions such as Whipple's disease and Crohn's disease can result in low serum levels of B-12.

[NMMNG]

97. 1. Alzheimer's has been linked to many deficiencies/conditions

None of them entirely conclusive. B12, Folate, long-term dehydration, diabetes, failure of the brain to switch of its daydream center, a particular gene, obesity, neuronal "traffic jams", women who have low bone mass late in life, and more.

2. B12 is not a protein

3. The notion that vegetarians/vegans are protein deficient is balderdash. Without even trying I exceed the recommended daily protein intake by at least 30 grams, and often I take in double or more (this includes the days I consume no animal products at all). The only way a veg*n could be deficient in anything is by failing to eat a balanced diet. And that could happen to anybody regardless of whether they are omnivore, vegetarian, vegan or whatever.

[Skittles]

90. I don't believe it

I think a lot of it is a scam

[Kurovski]

93. If you live near a Grocery Outlet, they often have organic

food. (west coast, southwest)

I've gotten soups for .39 to .99. Soy and rice milk, beans, canned veggies, crackers, juice, etc. for a third the price.

Check it out online.

[LaurenG]

96. It is well known that older gastrointestinal tracts

do not absorb nutrients as well as younger ones. B12 deficiencies are found in egg/dairy/meat eaters all the time.

Plus organics are rich in vitamins and minerals and do not carry the risk of regular produce sprayed with pesticides. I hope the day comes soon when all produce is once again organically grown.



edit extra "s"

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

99. Organic food is even better

if you grow it yourself. It does take time but it's worth it.

[AZBlue]

100. I try to always buy organic unless it's just too costly or not available.

I didn't see it anywhere else on the thread, but I may have missed it - if I did, I'm sorry: Safeway now has a line of organic products that are very reasonably priced. Maybe not as "natural" as going to a farm to pick it yourself, LOL, but we don't have much chance of that here. And, it's hard to pick tortilla chips right off the vine (they have a yummy blue chip with flaxseed in it - I highly recommend!!).