Is Someone Murdering People Who Know Too Much About NSA wiretapping?

[kpete]

Is your cell phone spying on you? Are the whistleblowers being killed?
Note: A version of this piece appears today on BradBlog. This version has additional information.

Is someone murdering people who know too much about NSA wiretapping?

Two whistleblowers -- one in Italy, one in Greece -- uncovered a secret bugging system installed in cell phones around the world. Both met with untimely ends. The resultant scandals have received little press in the United States, despite the profound implications for American critics of the Bush administration.

Last month, Italian telecommunications security expert Adamo Bove either lept or was pushed from a freeway overpass; he left no note and had no history of depression. Last year (March, 2005), Greek telecommunications expert Costas Tsalikidis met with a similarly enigmatic end. Both had uncovered American attempts to eavesdrop on government officials, anti-war activists, and private businessmen.

The Bove case relates to the long-standing controversy over the CIA's kidnapping of cleric Abu Omar, who was flown to Egypt and tortured. The post-Berlusconi government of Italy is attempting to arrest and try all of CIA personnel involved. Bove used mobile phone records to trace more than two dozen American agents.

much, much, much more at:
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2006/08/is-your-cell-phone-spying-on-you-are_23.html

[ThomCat]

1. Without any evidence our government will deny any

knowledge or involvement. Even if there was evidence they would continue to deny it.

But this certainly would not be the first time that our government had pulled dirty tricks and assassinated people in order to support an illegal foreign policy.

[undergroundpanther]

22. Plausible deniability the bullies best freind

[marmar]

2. Sadly, this would not be hard to believe - at all.

Similarly, I don't think that it was just an accident that the Italian journalist's car was shredded by U.S. military gunfire in Iraq.

[NotGivingUp]

25. i'm with you...never did believe that one.

[BlooInBloo]

3. Oh boy... calling don't-need-no-stinkin-evidence truthout believers...

[Fridays Child]

4. Do you believe there's no possibilty that any of these things...

...could be accurate?

[BlooInBloo]

6. Where did I so much as *suggest* a position on what is *possible*?

By contrast, did you even so much as SEE the word "evidence" in my post?

Sheesh.

Let the lying-about-being-reality-based-truly-evidence-free-zone begin again!

"It's believable!"

"Why?"

"Becuase it's possible!"

"groan."


EDIT: "and" -> "a" in subject line.

[Fridays Child]

7. Chill out.

I merely attempted to ascertain your position, for the purpose of discussion. Period. Nothing more. Nothing less.

For future reference, you should know that I don't attack people on this forum. You might want to save your defensive attitude for those who do.

[BlooInBloo]

9. Fair enough. Then just for your future reference....

There is very little that I hold to be theoretically impossible in the realm of politics. So hopefully you won't have to bother with such an information-less question in the future.

[Fridays Child]

11. The purpose of a question is to seek information, not to provide it.

Because your statement, "Oh boy... calling don't-need-no-stinkin-evidence truthout believers," provided the preface, my question required no prefatory antecedent. Branding it "information-less" is ridiculous and, for you to do so, makes me wonder why you feel you must take another jab at me.

[BlooInBloo]

13. The answer to your question was information-less....

indicating a useless question.

[Fridays Child]

14. In that case, my question would be useless only if I ask it of you, again.

If that's the point you're trying to make, I agree.

Peace.

[BlooInBloo]

20. lol! *Predictably* informationless.

[jhrobbins]

28. Friday's Child - Is it OK to call someone a lot of names.......

I mean really bad names here, if the obvious but somewhat subtle intention is to agree with the one that I would be seemingly attacking - or is this verboten? I'vs only been on here a coupla days and would hate to get thrown off so soon just trying to be clever.


:evilgrin: :toast:

[IChing]

5. You care to read the article or this thread?

before making a comment?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2465059

[kineneb]

8. donning my elegant Elizabethan tinfoil hat

I shall say that the Little Emperor's minions are not to be trusted, that they may wish to do away with those who do stand in their way. Many amazing deeds issue from their evil.



(big tall, Elizabethan hat...having Renaissance Faire withdrawal...)

[rosesaylavee]

16. Nice chapeau

I take it the inner lining is tin-foil?

[wildbilln864]

10. kicked and ...

recommended!

[w4rma]

12. A couple more lives ended is nothing to these people. (nt)

[AntiFascist]

15. K&R because this points out that they really are a "crime family" n/t

[cannonfire]

17. Standards of evidence

I was a little surprised to see rigorous standards of evidence supplied to THIS post, and not to some others on DU (or the larger blogosphere) that I could mention.

Mine is one of the few pieces in the English language to reference and important inquiry by a Greek parliamentary commission. I quote the head of Greek intelligence. Neither he nor anyone else involved with that official inquiry questioned that the Greek Prime Minister, his top officials, and the top brass in the Greek military were bugged. It was the commission which declared that the information was relayed to Maryland.

Please don't act as though *I* made up these allegations!

Ericsson's admission is on the record. I think their statement would shock the general public -- if they knew about it.

No one denies Bove's involvement in the Abu Omar scandal. No-one in Italy questions that Bove uncovered a Italian telecom eavesdropping scandal very similar to the one in Greece.

Most of the sources I cited are mainstream newspapers. I could have cited many more, although for obvious reasons I prefered to direct readers to articles in English. A little Googling will reveal that these matters were big news in both Greece and Italy.

Or perhaps we are to presume that all newspapers published outside the United States are untrustworthy? I might expect that attitude at the Free Republic, but not at DU!

I leave to the readers to decided how to assess the Village Voice. I did feel that it was worth noting that Ericsson and American intelligence had been linked in print as far back as 1999. I presume that the Voice has sufficient pocket depth to be fearful of libel suits, and that the periodical would prefer not to publish such allegations concerning a major company unless the Voice felt the claim was defensible in court.

I never state as fact that Bove and Tsalikidis were killed because they knew too much. I ask the question -- as are a lot of other people in Italy, Greece and elsewhere. Right now, with our present state of evidnece, I think the question is a fair one -- especially given the bizarre nature of Bove's death, as well as the stated beliefs of Tsalikidis' loved ones.

I admit that I am not sure how to assess the claims made by former U.S. diplomat John Brady Kiesling. However, I greatly admire the stand he took when he sent in his letter of resignation in 2003. So I am quite willing, for the nonce, to presume that he probably knows what he is talking about.

So why treat MY piece as unsourced? It was anything but!

[Joanne98]

18. Welcome to DU. Are you Greek?

[kpete]

19. you have one of the BEST sites

I check it on a regular basis!

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

Thanks for stopping by...

[DemonFighterLives]

21. Welcome to DU!

Rock On! :yourock:

[HamdenRice]

24. Welcome to DU, Joseph!

Your blog is one of my daily must reads. Glad to see you here!

[Pacifist Patriot]

29. I'm not surprised.

I've noticed an increase in skepticism and disdain for "conspiracy theories" here at DU over the last 6-9 months. I wouldn't take it personally. There have been so many dissiminated I think some people may have developed a knee-jerk reaction to anything that seems remotely outlandish. It's not only frightening to speculate that Bove and Tsalikidis were killed because they knew too much, it's too close to the plot of a Robert Ludlum novel. It feels surreal.

I'd take the skeptical reaction as self-defense rather than offense.

[professor_grove]

23. the answer is yes

and the killers are probably reading this thread right now, looking for more possible victims. The Bush Criminal Enterprise loves blood and murder.

[DemReadingDU]

26. Does person need to have a phone conversation?

Just by having a cell phone turned on, can the spyware still pick up conversations with people face-to-face?

[rman]

27. Theoretically yes

Though it'd mean a communications links is established without the owner knowing it and presumably without being billed for it.

[DemReadingDU]

30. WOW, kinda like a GPS system that is 'bugged'

Am I understanding this technology?

Just by carrying my cell phone with me...it is turned on but I'm not using it to communicate a phone conversation...someone is able to spy on me? There is technology that a cell phone can use to hear conversations between 2 people in a rooom just by carrying a cell phone? My cell phone can be 'bugged'? I don't even need to make a phone call?

This is scary!

[rman]

31. It's all down to the software

A cell phone has no 'hard' on-off switch, much like many of today's TV sets and home computers. Software *can* be made that turns on its microphone and sets up a comm link. And apparently it is possible to install 'special' software on cell phones, outside of official procedures.
I'm not so much worried about tapping phone conversations or eaves-dropping. Certainly the former is done in special cases. What doesn't require a special case according to the Bush security doctrine is keeping track of who calls who and when. I'm suspecting that is routine and is happening on a massive scale, and not just in the US.

[DemReadingDU]

32. They're probably using satellites

to get pictures of people located by the GPS in the cell phones.

Makes me wonder why Bin Laden hasn't been found yet.

[rman]

33. Don't know about that

As far as i know GPS is not (yet) standard in cell phones; some have it, many don't. Also it's not exactly trivial to get a clear picture of someones face from an overhead satellite.
But it is possible to locate a cell phone within a city block or so, using the relay-stations, and in most cases it is know who owns which cell phone.