Scarborough "Foley is a friend " "Advice to Dem's...keep your mouth shut"

[truthpusher]

besides the "keep your mouth shut" comment...Scarborough actually has some valid things to say... the best being "How could the Speaker of the House not remember being told by the Chairman of the Republican Congressional Committee that Foley had been confronted with his inappropriate e-mails to a male intern? Does this happen so often in Congress that it was no big deal to Denny Hastert?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15106507/

Scarborough: D.C.'s dark underbelly exposed

Joe Scarborough and Mark Foley entered Congress together in 1994

COMMENTARY
By Joe Scarborough

Updated: 12:47 a.m. MT Oct 2, 2006

I know Mark Foley. Mark Foley is a friend of mine. But in all my years working with him in Congress and on TV, I could have never foreseen this kind of scandal swirling around the friendly politician.

Mark and I entered Congress together in 1994 and spent the next four terms working together on legislation and political campaigns. Rumors about Mark's homosexuality followed him from his first day in the House and I even discussed the issue with him before he launched his Senate campaign in 2003.

(snip)

Where was the Republican leadership over the past year? They knew of Mark's inappropriate e-mails to a former page but never informed Democratic leaders so they could warn those pages they had brought to Washington.

How could the Speaker of the House not remember being told by the Chairman of the Republican Congressional Committee that Foley had been confronted with his inappropriate e-mails to a male intern? Does this happen so often in Congress that it was no big deal to Denny Hastert?

The fact that Republicans allowed Mark Foley to continue as Chairman of the Committee on Missing and Exploited Children is terrible. The fact that they let him lead the charge on a bill to stop the exploitation of minors on the Internet is unpardonable.

(snip)

Finally, my friendly advice to Democrats is to keep your mouth shut lest you be tagged as hypocrites. After all, you did next to nothing when one of your colleagues had a homosexual affair with a 17 year old intern--having sex with him in his Georgetown apartment and then taking him to Portugal the next summer to carry on his illicit affair.

Mark Foley's e-mails and IM's are disgusting. But their release only exposed DC's dark underside. And since that town is run by Republicans, expect ramifications for the GOP this fall.

link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15106507/

[NashVegas]

1. You Know What I Wish I Had Right Now?

Archival footage of Republican reaction to Lewinsky. It'd go straight to YouTube.

[central scrutinizer]

2. homosexuality is one thing, pedophilia is quite another

Don't try to cloud the issue, or we may ask you about dead interns.

[Mike Daniels]

16. I'm presuming he's talking about Studds

and from what I read, 17 was still under the age of consent in DC when the incident took place. So pedophilia is still in play with any arguments concerning Studds.

[benddem]

46. 16 age of consent in DC

Don't know where I read this but it was authoritative source.

[LynneSin]

48. Age of Consent Laws by state

http://www.actwin.com/eatonohio/gay/consent.htm

It was still wrong for what Studds was doing and ethic reforms were made to prevent this stuff again.

Perhaps DC should revist the "Age of Consent" laws

[toadzilla]

56. that link is incorrect for my state

hopefully it is also incorrect for the district.

[ieoeja]

57. Why should DC revisit those laws?

Summary of Age of Consent laws for 50 States and DC:

Age 16 - 33 (32 states and DC)
Age 17 - 7
Age 18 - 11

[LynneSin]

59. I actually prefer what some of the states have like Delaware

It's quite natural for a 16 year-old to be in a relationship with someone a few years over the age of consent; however, for someone over the age of 30 it just starts to get creepy and predatory.

[Selatius]

51. It's still illegal if you are 18 or over fooling with a minor

Age of consent simply means that, for example, the 16 year-old can have sexual relations with other minors of the same age or older but not older than 17. It becomes statutory rape after that point. At least, that's how I understand age of consent laws in my state.

[toadzilla]

54. I'n MD there is a 4 year age difference clause

the age of consent is 16 but only within a 4 year age difference. anyone older than 20 who has sex with a 16 year old is a rapist, also i know of some states that say 16 is the age of consent, as long as the partner is not older than 30.

[ieoeja]

60. That's not what I'm reading.

The 4 year old difference applies to anyone UNDER FOURTEEN, not over sixteen.

Go to http://mlis.state.md.us/cgi-win/web_statutes.exe?gcr&3-303 (the State of Maryland website). Then use the Next link to continue with articles 3-304 through 3-307.

The age of consent is 14 unless within four years of age for "vaginal intercourse" (3-304). It is 16 if you want to "get your freak on" with toys, S&M, etc.

That "must be at least 14 if with someone more than 4 years older" phrase which pops up in half these articles means a 12 year old can be with a 16 year old, but not a 17 year old. But once you're 14, there is no age limit on your partner.

The other half of the articles do limit the types of sex in which a 14 or 15 year old can engage. Once you are 16 the handcuffs are off.

Or rather on as bondage is one type of sex prohibited to 14 and 15 year olds but permitted with 16 year olds.

[progdonkey]

52. Studds wasn't a pedophile...

Granted, I've only just now done a cursory search on the Studds story, but as I view the details, with Studds you had what appears to have been a legitimate relationship between Studds and the young man (I say "legitimate" in the sense that the 17-year-old maintained it was consensual even when he was older, as well as his not being one of multiple pages that Stubbs was pursuing). He wasn't sending letters to every 17-year-old male page who crossed his path, like Foley. It was certainly inappropriate, but it wasn't like he was sexually abusing the neighbor's 9-year-old.

Secondly, Studds was certainly not a pedophile (and likely neither is Foley, for that matter--he seems to truly fall into the "ephebophile" category; still wrong, but not pedophilia) and it really seems like Studds was just especially attracted to this one guy, who happened to be 17, making it inappropriate but hardly sexually perverted. A 17-year-old may legally be a "child," but in terms of sexual attraction, finding a 17-year-old sexually attractive (male or female) is a far cry from finding a 10-year-old sexually attractive, and referring to someone who finds 17-year-olds sexually attractive as a "pedophile," does a great disservice to those who are the targets of real pedophiles, as it dilutes the meaning. It makes the labelling completely arbitrary: I'm 26 and if I had a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old girl, I'd presume you'd call me a pedophile, because she's underage--but what if she and I were in Germany, Italy, etc.? She's not underage there, so would I then not be a pedophile, simply because I'm in Europe? If (for some ridiculous reason) a country made the age of consent 9-years-old, would that mean that Americans who travel there to have sex with 10-year-olds would no longer be pedophiles?

What I mean is that we can't just call every person over 18 who is sexually attracted to someone under 18 a "pedophile."

That is not to say that someone who has sex with someone under the age of consent shouldn't have to face justice for violating the law, but that doesn't make the person a pedophile. Say they abused their position, they had an inappropriate relationship with a subordinate under the age of consent, they committed statutory rape, etc., but save "pedophile" for the men and, more rarely, women (whether they're 50, 40, or 20) who want to have sex with pre- and peripubescent children.

[_dynamicdems]

29. Good point. n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

3. They partied together....

[jimshoes]

4. Hey Joe,

I'm a dem and uh, FUCK YOU!

[shance]

5. Scarborough issues a threat to Dems???

I hope they call him on it.

[displacedtexan]

6. Hm. Joe "Dead Intern" Scarborough giving us advice?

[ComerPerro]

28. I was gonna say, "At least they didn't find a dead intern, eh Joe?"

[WI_DEM]

7. Say Joe, what happened to that congressional intern who worked in

your office? Didn't she mysteriously die just before you resigned to spend more time with the family?

[npincus]

35. ??????

never heard of that???

[dogday]

39. He worked her to death

literally.......

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

8. Who knew the 1994 "Contract with America" meant sexual IM's in 2006

According to Scarborough: Mark and I entered Congress together in 1994 and spent the next four terms working together on legislation and political campaigns.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. Oh Joe

Go fuck yourself.

[Teaser]

10. Any of your MSNBC interns turn up dead yet, Joe?

I just wonder about these things.

[Libby2]

11. I don't think so Joe.

[CottonBear]

12. Two words Joe: dead intern. n/t

[Oceansaway]

13. .

maybe dead intern Joe likes young boys too

[TornadoTN]

14. Ah Joe, afraid someone might start looking for dead interns?

I mean, it may actually bring out some of your own skeletons when you are connected to scum like Foley.

Or how about some of your "OUTRAGE", you know, the kind that you put on display during the whole Clinton "scandal", which I might add was between two consenting adults of opposite gender AND of legal age.

Remember all of those things are supposed to be areas that your party owns the "MORAL HIGH GROUND"! Plus, you have to make sure you are repulsed by any mention of homosexuality, since you guys have the hot-line to the almighty.

[Nickster]

15. Ok, maybe I'm out of the loop, but what homosexual affair is Mr. Dead

Intern referring to?

[Mike Daniels]

19. Most likely Gerry Studds

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Studds

[Fleshdancer]

This was from over 20 years ago!

And he was censured but the people in his district re-elected him. Wow, Scarborough is really grasping at this one.

On edit: The SAME YEAR Studds was censured for his affair, the Republican Representative Dan Crane was also censured for having an affair with a page plus he was married with kids. Not that it matters, but it's interesting.

[Bucky]

40. Democrats supported slavery & tried to secede! They have no right to...

If he's gotta go back 20 years to dig up a scandal to defend his friend... he's got nothing.

[kestrel91316]

53. Gerry Stubbs did his deed over 30 years ago.

[Jack Rabbit]

36. Studds was censured for his behavior

Facts from the Wikipedia article (thanks, Mike):

At the time is was made public, the statute of limitations had long since expired, so there was nothing else to do but censure him.

Studds appeared with the former page, who was then well into his twenties, at a press conference and stated defiantly that it was no one's business but theirs.

There is nothing in the Wikipedia article that suggests the Democratic leadership knew of this specific incident at the time it took place; it does, however, suggest that many of Studds' colleagues knew he was gay. It doesn't say whther Studds continued to hit on pages after his affair with this one or whether he made a regular habit of it.

[Nickster]

42. Thanks for the info. Never knew this before. What struck me was the fact

that they said the relationship was consensual, but he violated the age of consent laws. Doesn't strike me as being the same as some creepy congresscritter preying on the pages. Doesn't exactly seem to be the same thing really, not to mention he had to grab how far back to find anything even remotely close to Foley's issue? Did Studds go running to his cabin in the hills crying about being an alcoholic?

[Fleshdancer]

17. who is he talking about?

"Finally, my friendly advice to Democrats is to keep your mouth shut lest you be tagged as hypocrites. After all, you did next to nothing when one of your colleagues had a homosexual affair with a 17 year old intern--having sex with him in his Georgetown apartment and then taking him to Portugal the next summer to carry on his illicit affair."

:shrug:

Who is he referring to??

[mitchtv]

22. Gary Studds D-MA

about 20 years ago

[judaspriestess]

18. who is he referring to about the homosexual affair?

if someone doesn't mind answering.

[sandnsea]

20. This is preying on page(S)

Plural, a pattern, an obsession. Not the same as one long term relationship, that Republican Dan Crane was also caught in. I don't approve of those either, but Foley is a different breed altogether and was so overt in his behavior that pages were warned about him for years.

[Aviation Pro]

21. Hey, unidicted murder suspect....

...you're next, fucknuts.

[Marr]

23. Republicans put party before country, and even before childrens' safety.

Period. The GOP is the party of ciminals and pedophiles and Joe Scarborough counts himself as a member.

[Old and In the Way]

24. Joe, Foley is a sick man and needs help. All we are doing is fixing the

Republican Brand so as to show it in its proper light. Come to find out, you have less moral integrity than Democrats. Combine that with your inability to lead, gross incompetence, warcrimes, and war-profiteering, I'm really not sure what your brand stands for anymore. Maybe, More of the Same?

[Cha]

25. Yeah joe, it's real nice that the pervert is

your fucking friend but don't tell me to stfu up about it.

[katsy]

26. A homosexual affair is not illegal.

The actions of an internet predator are... understand?

Internet predators going after 15 year old pages are criminals. It doesn't matter if you are a hetero, bi or homosexual.

[TornadoTN]

33. Right on, and this needs to be repeated

Just to drive home the point that the Republicans no longer hold the "religous high ground" in terms of homosexuality nor are the morally superior than Democrats because of the Clinton affair. This needs to be repeated over and over again to illustrate that we don't have a problem with peoples own private decisions about their sexuality, but we do have a problem when it is illegal, perpretated against children.

Foley was in a position of power and he clearly used it to groom these kids into his private objects of lust. This would be just as deplorable had it been a Democrat, but it really sits in stark contrast because it flies in the face of EVERYTHING the GOP has been preaching against Democrats since the 1994.

[katsy]

49. Here's an excellent article:

http://www.earthside.com/earthside/

[WePurrsevere]

41. Pages must be 16 according to the Page program site. I've seen 15 cited

before though do you have a link to this? If he was 15 he should not have even been a Page yet and he would have been under DC's "age of consent" (16).

Link to Page Program info: http://www.house.gov/evans/page_program.htm

[katsy]

45. Sorry, my mistake. nt

[WePurrsevere]

61. No worries, it's been a very long last few days & I know my brain is

in major overload. It wasn't just you either, I've seen 15 mentioned before here and been meaning to ask about it... figured I missed something since it happens all the time. :)

[skids]

27. Since when do we take "advice" from Scarborough. I never will n/t

[gully]

30. 17 year old? I thought he was 28? Are they talking about Frank?

*shrug*

[onenote]

44. No. Gerry Studds (D-MA).

He admitted (unapologetically)to a sexual relationship with a 17 year old male page. He was censured. Looking back at it from today's vantage point, I think Studds was allowed to get off too lightly. He should've been forced to resign imo.

[ComerPerro]

31. Some of the Sacrborough sycophants around here need to read this

you know who you are

[warrens]

32. Looks like the GOP is doing fine

Man, the hate and dissension out there is just SOOOOOOOO gratifying.

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. I think someone should explain to Joe that....

"Finally, my friendly advice to Democrats is to keep your mouth shut lest you be tagged as hypocrites."


We aren't revelling in the fact that Foley had inappropriate contact with underaged boys, that's insane. What we have a problem with, is the sheer unmitigated hyprocrisy. This might not be as big an issue if the same people who claim such moral superiority to liberals like me, weren't always telling us what bad people we are, and how we're going to hell. This one's not gonna sit well with the soccer Moms Joe, so you just keep spinning. And to dredge up a 20 yr. old story to make your case is just pathetic.

[truebrit71]

37. Hey Joe, people wth dead intern's need to keep their advice to themselves.

...m'kay?

[nini]

38. Civilized people should never keep their mouths shut

when it comes to Foley and his ilk. IF any Dems did the same then get their sorry asses too.

This is NOT a partisan issue.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

43. Well, he's right about one thing

This kind of crap can come out about anyone. Democrats are NOT invulnerable. It's a human failing, not a Republican one.

We had an acolyte leader at our church who sodomized a 15-year old boy (fatherless, of course) so badly the child had to have surgery. He was a stalwart and very active Dem. And his mother's connections in the south of the state got him off with just "sexual rehab."

[LynneSin]

47. Ok that's a load of bullshit ESPECIALLY the last paragraph

This is in relations to Gerry Studd who had a consensual relationship with a 17-year-old and the age of consent in DC is actually 16.

It is still creepy but has nothing to do with the Foley incident. And the fact that he had to go all the way back to 1983, the Representative was censured and there were ethic reforms brought about because of this.

This was nothing more than a desperate attempt to cover Foley's ass!

[libhill]

50. You should know fukwad -

republicans / conservatives have cornered the market on hypocrisy - screw Scarborough and the elephant you he in on.

[kestrel91316]

55. Hey, Joe: WTF is it about "serial child sexual predator"

you don't GET????

YOU STFU. Before we start asking more questions about your dead intern.

[WCGreen]

58. Let's see....

Studds was a democrat who admitted a relationship with a 17 year old male page back in 1973...

This is from 1983...

Ethic laws where not in place then...

Now they are...

Old story....

Come on Joey, you can do better than that...