silence is a bad sign. One wonders just how bad it was.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

It seems like only a few days ago that there was a major explosion on the outskirts of Baghdad. Initial reports claimed that this was the key ammo depot storing small arms ammo and all tank ammo. (Shells, machineguns and Hummer ammo).
Since then, there has been a news blackout on that story. Check out Google. NOT ONE STORY SINCE 10/11/06. NOT ONE.

Reports of people injured or killed?
zip
Reports of the amount (in rounds, tonage, or type) of ammo destroyed?
zip
Reports on how this really bad news will invigorate the insurgents?
zip
Reports on how we can resupply all that ammo, when for the past two years supplies have been exceedingly tight?
zip
Reports on which insurgent group's attack caused the explosion?
zip
Reports on the number of civilian casualties because of shells flying and bursting over residential areas?
zip

Iraqi and Euro reports confirmed that an enemy attack were the cause of this explosion. They also confirm that the explosions and resulting fires lasted no less than 13 straight hours, with the fires burning at least twice as long thereafter. We knew that before the blasts, this heavily protected camp and depot held more than 5,000 US troops. Is it credible to consider that not one person was injured or killed? Highly unlikely. Not one person missing? Hah.

Or is it more likely that the DOD is withholding the bad news until November 10th, for a bad news dump friday after the election? Worse yet, not one US journalist has even mentioned this story as a follow up. WHY?

[democrat in Tallahassee]

1. I have a friend whose son is stationed at that base ; she has been

out sick but is in today. I'll ask her if she has talked to her son since it happened.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. thanks, I hope he survived.

Having dealt with industrial accidents and seeing the aftermath, I can't but think that there were many injuries. This had to by far greater in scope.

[rodeodance]

9. good. and safe tidings to her son.

[Atman]

2. And notice how suddenly the GOP is scrambling for a "get out" strategery?

Sure, many have been talking about it, but suddenly it seems like the whole party, except Bush, is saying "Okay, we have to get the fuck out!" I'm pretty sure it was MUCH WORSE than they're reporting. They're probably busy trying to keep the families of the dead soldiers quiet until after the election.

.

[onethatcares]

19. I've noticed the same change of heart

some of them are starting to say things like, "before we lose anymore men", "no reason to be there if the Iraqis don't want us there" and so on. Where the hell were they when this started in 2002?????

[leftofthedial]

3. our guys can throw rocks

if they're attacked.

[Felinity]

5. Let's kick this up, inquiring minds want to know K&R nt

[rodeodance]

7. you bet

[brokensymmetry]

10. I'm in. K&R n/t

.

[rodeodance]

6. a friend said a SECOND ammo dump exploded today--but i do not

know where she got this infor from. nor can I find anything about it.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. national security at risk. That's why no news. Or is it,

no news is good news?

[KoKo]

11. Keep it kicked maybe someone knows something and will post.

This story died on the cables with few shots of the burnings, so reports must have been really bad. There was an interview on CNN just once with a young reporter in the Green Zone who said the explosions were really loud and no one knew what was going on...just that the Ammo dump had exploded and people in Baghdad were really upset thinking it was an attack.

After that...nothing.

[Martin Eden]

12. K&R

I, too, was wondering what happened to this story.

[hang a left]

13. Has anyone check Al Jazeera?

[elehhhhna]

14. AL Jazeera news today:

Iraqi police commander dies in blast

A bomb has exploded in a police station in the Iraqi city of Hilla, killing the commander of an Iraqi special police force responsible for tackling the growing violence.

UK army chief pleads for Iraq pullout
UK coroner: US troops killed journalist

Arab World more
• Mishaal speaks out on Israel
• Israel kills eight Palestinians in Gaza
• UK criticised over omitting Lebanon
• Iraq priest 'killed over pope speech'
• Deadly attacks shake Baghdad
• Palestinians killed in Israeli air raid
• US student freed in West Bank
• Iraq war deaths 'top 650,000'

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

[catmandu57]

15. It looked like the shock and awe attack

when it was shown, massive explosions lighting up the night, maybe a little shock and awe from the Iraqis? This blackout has me concerned as well, there have been postings of other sustained attacks throughout the country this week.
Remember last week when kindasleazy was forced to circle the Baghdad airport because of an attack happening, something is going on maybe the Iraqi Tet?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

16. Here is my understanding of the situation

It was a massive ammo depot.
It based 5,000 troops.
It is one of 18 major bases ringing Baghdad.

These places are heavily fortified. They are heavily guarded 24/7. It is extremely difficult to get into them, and for that very reason, exceedingly difficult to get out of them. The reason why they have 5,000 heavily armed troops is BECAUSE it is a major arms depot. We are talking the cherry on the cake as targets go.

Some of the most deadly events in military history have taken place near or involving arms storage areas. The USS Maine explosion caused a first Cuban crisis. It most likely was caused by badly stored powder and shells. A major Japanese outpost in Pacific caused upwards of 1,000 deaths in one blast. At least two of their battle ships blew up when their arms depots were hit. In Germany, more than a few attacks were stopped once the local arms depot was hit.
In World War 1, during the trench battles in France, a massive offensive was stopped in its tracks when a lucky german shell blew up all the arms intended for that battle. Several trains carrying ammo were blown up in WWI and WWII, causing major strategy changes. The list is huge.

An army may march on its stomach, but it shoots ammo and bullets. Once those tools are gone, they don't march, not when their superiority is suddenly blown away.

[OutNow]

17. How Do You Spell T-E-T?

From a military perspective, the Vietnam War Tet offensive was a great victory for U.S. forces. The NLF could not hold even one city during their strike. From a political standpoint however, it was an incredible win for the NLF. No place in S. Vietnam was safe from enemy attack. The guards at the embassy in Saigon barely fought off an attack. Cities in II Core, formerly safe areas where GIs took in-country R&R, were attacked by NLF tanks (who the hell thought the NLF had tanks??).

Does any of this sound familiar? The Kurdish (very safe) area is now prone to large attacks, the Shia area in the south is so unstable the Brits are going to pull out very soon. The insurgents are now attacking our bases and ammo dumps almost at will. How long before the Green Zone is surrounded and under siege? How long before the helicopters start landing on buildings in the Green Zone to ferry people out?

As John Kerry once inquired, who will be the last American to die?

Bring the troops home now!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

18. Tet was a major holiday (still is) Isn't there a major muslim

holiday in the offing, too?

I am reminded of Condi Rice all dressed up in designed kevlar helmet, designer, color coordinated 3d generation flack jacket (the ones they refuse to buy our troops) and surrounded by bodyguards during a meeting INSIDE THE GREEN ZONE.

Saigon was never like that, not from what I recall reading or seeing.

[Felinity]

21. Fall of Saigon

I mentioned this a while back, but I get this cold chill every time I think of our troops holed up in the Green Zone, and how the final moments of our presence in Vietnam turned out.

If you've never seen the Fall of Saigon documentary(http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/movie.html?v_id=178067 for description), it is highly recommended.

As a nation, our final act in Vietnam was to betray our best Vietnamese supporters, leaving them to be slaughtered by the Vietcong, who were literally crashing the gates of the Embassy while we helicoptered as many of OUR people out of there from the roof (someone in Washington called an end to the chopper sorties before they were finished evacuating). It was not in any way a dignified exit for a superpower. Our last military act in Viet Nam was to betray our friends.

Anybody see a way for our exit from Iraq to be better?

We are sitting ducks, more so day by day, in Iraq. The sooner we get out, the more likely we will not look like frightened dogs with tails tucked in when we do.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

26. Thanks much, Felinity. I will check that out. Did not see it before.

It does seem fitting, though.

There are other movies about the futility of war, mainly in B&W, although some in color managed to provide an emotional impact.
Just as I think TV movies about lawyers are pathetic, most vets I know hate watching war movies, except, perhaps, MASH (movie, not TV). Their own personal combat hell is something they prefer to keep buried.

One major diff between VietNam and IraqNam. We had friends in Viet Nam.

[Felinity]

38. Correction

"One major diff between VietNam and IraqNam. We had friends in Viet Nam."

We HAD friends in Iraq, too. Then we bombed the crap out of them and slaughtered half a million of their people. Then those disloyal bastards turned on us.

It's so hard to maintain friendships while you're bullying the world. Go figure.

As for The Fall of Saigon, it is a true documentary, which I think is easier to watch than fictionalized or reenacted accounts of war. I never made it through the Normandy landing in Saving Private Ryan--low tolerance for wanton bloodshed and human suffering.

Every American should see the Saigon documentary. It reveals the dispicable sang froid of the civilian military leadership.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

40. point well taken.

[sendero]

31. Welcome to DU..

... I think Kerry said something like "how can you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?".

In any event, it's so sad that it is taking the Republican party 2 extra years, 2000 brave soldiers and $200 billion to see what anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together already knew - there is nothing to "win" in Iraq, it's over.

If we had left 2 years ago, most Iraqis would still respect us and not hate us. Now, they will hate us for generations. The scope of this debacle won't become clear to the Republicans for a few more years, but we already know - this was probably the most collosal military error in our nation's history.

[KharmaTrain]

36. TET In Baghdad Began 3 Years Ago

Yes, no place in S. Vietnam was safe from an NVA or VC attack, but the dangers to our troops were nowhere near as ominous as what our troops face as they get further bogged down in Iraq. The old story was how the Americans would control the villages during the day and the VC took over at night. But at least a GI could be pretty safe on the streets of Saigon as opposed to attempting to do the same in Baghdad.

Also, we're not fighting an organized army. There isn't a defined enemy...the person who waves at you one moment will be taking a pot shot at you in the next. There won't be a battle like the one for Hue as the fighting appears to have spun in many different directions and how people will change sides on the turn of a dime.

Yes, Tet was a military victory but a political failure. That is identical to this entire Iraq fiasco. If anything, this war has been a constant Tet since the first insurgents fired their first RPG.

[madokie]

20. a kick for inquiring minds

[malaise]

22. Kick for more info

SOmething big happened there - why the coverup.

[malaise]

23. All I can find

http://www3.whdh.com/news/articles/world/BO30816/

[bklyncowgirl]

30. Shhh! We don't want the insurgents to know that their attack succeeded.

We have to protect our military secrets.

Well, there was that big boom boom thing of course but if we don't talk about it, well, maybe the terrorists won't think it worked.

At any rate, having heavily guarded ammo dumps being blown sky high is not a good thing for morale. We must keep our voters--er troops--energized.

[karlrschneider]

24. The cable "news" shows had it on for hours that night...then the story

simply vanished. It's mind-bogglingly bizarre.
:eyes:

[InternalDialogue]

25. another kick n/t

:kick:

[Rex]

27. Tank shells and arty shells are massive. No idea about the damage

but it sounds like it was terrible. Small arms fire is one thing, but these were tank and arty shells exploding and who knows what was coming out and in what direction? I'm really worried about this one.

[freeplessinseattle]

28. kick n/t

[theHandpuppet]

35. Not to mention the depleted uranium

The base must be pretty saturated with that residue now.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftchick]

33. I have not clicked on that site in three years

I believe it is pure fiction.

[magellan]

34. So does the US gov't

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Apr/08-205989.html

[leftchick]

37. not that I care what the US gov't thinks

I made my own conclusion about it very early in the invasion. I could never get another story anywhere to match their, always outlandish, claims.

[Felinity]

39. Fiction?

Jihad Unspun version:

"The al-Habbaniyah correspondent for Mafkarat al-Islam reported that the transport planes continued to land and take off all night and into Wednesday morning ferrying back and forth under fighter escort from Baghdad loaded with dead and wounded Americans.

. . .Mafkarat al-Islam observed, however, that the landing of nine massive transport planes carrying US casualties was an important indicator that the number of Americans killed or wounded in the Resistance assault on Falcon arsenal was very substantial."


WH version (from Jihad Unspun article):

"In its announcements regarding the attack, US officials denied that the attack on the arsenal caused any casualties at all."


Here's some fiction for you. So close to an election, the Rethugs ferried all the American carnage out of Iraq ASAP (where did the steel from the Trade Center towers go and when?). Then they send the troops who were killed/injured to Germany and keep them "on ice" literally or figuratively; advising the next of kin that they are on a special mission. The families could be advised over the next few weeks, attributing the losses to smaller skirmishes. Or, just wait till after the election and trot out the old "Interest of National Security." (Isn't it funny how National Security interests and Repub Party interests are always identical?)

Like you said, the truth is somewhere in between, but 9 (or 3,4,5?) transport planes moving in and out of Baghdad over night were moving something, and in a hurry.

Gotta go--I have a tinfoil hat fitting in a sec. :tinfoilhat: