What started the Republican slide? Schiavo, Katrina, Iraq?

[charlyvi]

Abramoff, Medicare Part D, Foley, the list goes on.

It would appear the American majority is waking up, but what was the precise moment of their awakening? Most of us have seen the evil since '00, so it can be difficult to point at one particular clusterfuck to answer this question. Maybe some of the newer members of DU, some who may have voted for shrub in '00 or '04 can tell us what changed them. Was it the PR disaster of Schiavo? The utter incompetence of our government revealed by Katrina? Or maybe the steady drip, drip, drip of bad news from Iraq? The scandals? The usurpation of our Constitution by a pack of power hungry, anti science Corporatists? The gay bashing, Democrat bashing, Clinton bashing, seriously hate-filled far right Dominionists? Honestly, I'd like to know. What was it?

[Cooley Hurd]

1. The Schiavo mess was roundly criticized by most of the electorate...

...but I'd have to say the federal response to Hurricane Katrina was the proverbial last straw.

[charlyvi]

6. Katrina was the last straw for some, Foley was the last straw

for others, but the FIRST straw? I'd have to say Schiavo.....that's the first time, I think, that the repubs were vulnerable; the first time they were seen as over reaching.

[AlinPA]

2. 1. Tom Delay 2. Cunningham

[charlyvi]

9. Yes. Scandal after scandal.

Still happening.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

3. The Katrina response, (which still stands) is/was what told

America where this govt's priorities are. OVERSEAS.

[rosesaylavee]

4. IMO, Katrina personalized it for a lot

of people. None of us live in a disaster-proof area. The lack of govt response and a seeming lack of interest while Americans were dying **needlessly** had enough of an emotionally seismic effect that that woke the sleeping giant. Sheeple began to realize that the *co cares only for themselves. Everything else since has underscored that and has helped draw them a picture of what they got us into by voting for these bastards.

[charlyvi]

8. Yes. Then every decision Shrub made afterwards

was seen in that light.....if he could ignore such a disaster, what else was he ignoring? What other disastrous decision was in the making?

[rosesaylavee]

16. And what decisions were/are made

that we know nothing about yet? Yep, he is a scary guy. Glad the awareness level has been raised... tremendously sad that it had to be at the expense of the people of NO and the Gulf States.

[Waya]

5. For me it was.....

.......when the Supreme Court appointed Bush in 2000...but I think the real eye opener for many Bush supporters was Katrina. It's one thing to make a mess out of Iraq...it's another to make a mess in one's own country.....at least that's what I heard many Bushies say after Katrina.....seems that was the onset of disillusionment for many....

[charlyvi]

38. Yes. We looked like a Third World banana republic.

As if we were a nation too poor and decentralzed to see to the needs of our own citzens. Disgraceful. Shameful and disgraceful.

[TacticalPeek]

7. Cindy Sheehan

Check the events. Check his polls.

She made Shrub's shriveled, warped soul easy for many people to see.

Thanks, Cindy. :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[charlyvi]

11. You know, that was a REALLY stupid decision on Rove's part.

If shrub just would have invited her in for coffee, discussed his position, been kind to her and treated her with respect rather than speeding past her on his way to the next fundraiser, he could have won the PR war. He could have diffused her impact. But if he were that smart, we wouldn't be in this mess.

[alfredo]

35. Yes. bush came off as a coward. It sewed the seeds of doubt in

people's minds. Then bush's inaction on Katrina built on the doubt sewn by his cowering in the face of a grieving mother.

[KittyWampus]

56. Baloney, Sheehan showed up in the new AFTER Iraq was unpopular

[AnneD]

65. I was at Camp Casey that August....

I cannot explain it without sounding corny, but the whole event had a blessed sense. I am a liberal christian and I am here to say the holy spirit was at the camp. All our (I took my 16 yo daughter) needs were met in strange and wonderful ways. I ate the best food, drank the coffee, listened to the best music and heard the best speakers. I went there with very little money to spare, but so many of our needs were met in such generous ways-we were able to donate all our money to the Crawford House and other causes. I met folks just like myself from all over the US (and met some DU's too:hi:). But, I really felt the momentum shift during that time. But the best thing of all....my young daughter, who frequently :eyes: at my political :rant: finally understood what what it was all about.

Katrina was in the Gulf at that time and we were listening to it. When we got home from Camp Casey, Katrina hit and that just confirmed my belief that the momentum had indeed shifted. The fact that even with the manicured and sanitized MSM news, folks (even RWCC) got the point is nothing short of amazing.

Thanks again Cindy-you courage and single minded devotion to peace serves as a never ending source of strength to us.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

76. I think that Cindy started the slide, but they could have still recovered

ground if not for Katrina, that cemented it.

I think the importance of Cindy is she is the first person who really pierced the aura of invulnerability that Bushco has put so much effort into creating.

One mom, who went down to the guy's little fortress and camped out, and he couldn't even be bothered to talk to her.

Thanks to DUer gatorboy:

[TacticalPeek]

81. Great toon.

Thanks for that.

[mdmc]

10. The Rove trashing of McCain in SC 2000.

9-11-01 saved this group. They were sad from the start, and 9-11-01 allowed them to take us down the wrong (might is right) path.

[charlyvi]

13. Good point.

Anyone paying attention to the '00 SC primary would have known this bunch would steal their grandmother's pension to acquire power--not a good omen.

[MiniMe]

12. Schiavo started people questioning, Katrina was the icing on the cake

[charlyvi]

15. And Iraq was the background music playing throughout dessert. n/t

[NEDem]

51. I agree

Schiavo got the downfall rolling. Even a couple of pubs I work with admit that was when they woke up. Katrina solidified it.

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. I think it started

with the economic problems, the job loss, the corporate corruption scandals and the recession. Lots of people lost jobs. Those who found new jobs often found that they were not able to replace their ability to earn. That kind of direct financial impact tends to make people pay attention. And when they looked around they saw lots of stuff that made them even more uneasy. In my opinion if employment, jobs, and earning ability had remained stable then a large part of the population would have continued to be apathetic. It is all about the money. And a whole lot of folks have a whole lot less than they did when shrubbie took office.

[charlyvi]

18. Well said.

A pervasive sense of unease about the ability to earn a living in this country--supposedly this richest country on earth. The sacrifice of workers on the alter of investors, very unAmerican, very callous. Workers sacrificed, the residents of Katrina sacrificed, our good name trashed throughout the world.

[KharmaTrain]

17. Schaivo...Shall I Count The Ways?

There were little irritants...the defecits, Iraq, outsourcing, immigration...none got much of a public hearing as the Repugnican "Mighty Wurlitzer" dominated the corporate media and the boosh regime appeared "strong" as opposed to stubborn...Schaivo changed all that.

1. - Millions watched this freak show and put themselves in Michael Schaivo's position. If it was your loved one, would you want either the government or some religious nuts telling you how to deal with a person tragedy? They saw Repugnicans who bitched about "activist judges" running to their own "activist judges"...they saw a Congress that was dragged back to Washington on a late Sunday night and to vote on a bill designated for one person...the big anvil of the federal government crushing down on the rights and decision of one person.

2. - They over-reached. Prior to Schaivo, most people saw the fundies as harmless. Then they got a good look at Randall Terry and the entire cabal of "moralists" who were using the bible to exploit a personal tragedy for their own gain...and it was obvious to all who watched. This was a modern day Elmer Gantry that played in millions of homes. Fundies went from being harmless...like the hippies in 1967 to "crazy people" like when the left wing radicalized at the '68 DNC Convention. You could feel a mood change while this fiasco dragged on

3. - The power of special interests...this one case caused the government and country come to a standstill. Booosh hops on a plane and comes running back to DC in the middle of the night to sign the bill...and for what? He didn't run back on 9/11...he ran away...and that point wasn't lost on people. He showed who his real "base" was and how important it was to pander to the invisible cloud crowd rather than be a leader of the entire nation. The "he's a guy I'd like to have a beer with" personna was cracked for the first time and set the stage for his downward slide in the polls.

4. - The image of baffoon Frist playing doctor, the "Terri can sing and dance and is just napping" crap from others flew in the face of reality. Millions of us have experienced a loved one who has drifted into a coma or some other tragic situation where a once vibrant person is relegated to machines for their survival...and many of us had to make the decision to pull the feeding tube or shut off the ventilator or enact a DNR order...and to see these clowns trying to get in the way of a very personal choice...and being led around by a bunch of whacko religious nuts...alarmed a lot of people about the competency of not just the House & Senate, but the value of having one party in total control.

Look at the polls and Booosh's real slide in popularity began in early 2005...thanks to Schaivo and the seeds were planted of him as being easily manipulated and detached. It showed how a small interest group could hijack the government and how these people weren't mild mannered church ladies but some really scary people. Most of all, the Repugnicans over-reached for the first time and paid a price for it. They came off not as moralists but Charlatans.

Cheers...

[charlyvi]

19. Agree with everything you said except the part about the '68

Convention. Speaking as one of the "crazy people" at the Convention, we didn't radicalize it, Mayor Richard J. Daley did.

[KharmaTrain]

28. I Was There As Well

Why my parents let a 12 year old to venture downtown at night still baffles me, but it was another time and another place. I was also there for the Days of Rage riot that happened a year later...which was a far worse police riot than in Aug. '68.

My point was more of one of perception. People sat at home and saw the rioting on the street and the first impression (and the lasting one) was it was the kids who provoked this thing and how they had gone crazy. The Chicago 7 trial proved different.

Cheers...

[charlyvi]

34. Yep. The Tales of Hoffman

The judge who taped Bobby Seals' mouth and chained him to his chair during the trial. Crazy times.

[oldcoot]

63. I agree about Schavio

I suspect that the Schavio incident caused more people to look into living wills than in the past because they were afraid of the possible consequences of the government getting involved.

[Raine]

78. I agree with you on everything

Schaivo was the turning point for the repugs slide to the bottom. I also remember 68 and no matter what their intentions that convention turned many people against the hippies (& the left) that continues to this day.

[jody]

20. Dubya taking office. n/a

[charlyvi]

21. Or Dubya stealing office. n/t

[FSogol]

22. For real conservations it was Schiavo; for the country it was Katrina

Of course reading "My Pet Goat" during a crisis didn't help.

[pdxmom]

23. I think Schiavo, combined with the attempt to privatize Social

Security is what started the slide. Those two things, which were occuring basically simultaneously, made a lot of Republicans start to question. After that, it was like a snowball and it's been gathering momentum since.

[charlyvi]

30. Wow! I had forgotten that one.

There are so many shrub disasters to remember, and so little time!

[pat_k]

24. Bush going down thru 9/11 and has been dropping ever since. . .

. . .and Republican approval is tied to Bush's.

Can't find the most recent graph -- but here's one for pre-2004

Scroll down page
http://nasilemak.blogspot.com/2004_03_28_nasilemak_archive.html#108066053879869096

When people learn the truth, they don't tend to unlearn it. The numbers only go one way. 9/11 was the anoomoly. Despite their best efforts to capitalize on it for years, the trend has been down, down, down.

[blm]

25. It started with the DEBATES, that's why they had to rig the vote count.

Then Social Security.

Then Schiavo.

Then Cindy Sheehan.

Then Katrina came in and batted clean up.

[charlyvi]

31. And the scandals, and the Iraq war, and the bad legislation......

It just goes on and on.

[blm]

37. Corpmedia was able to downplay the scandals and bad legislation - UNTIL

cdertain events became UNSPINNABLE, then people could look more closely at what corpmedia sold them in the years before - including Bush.

I really feel that Bush's failure to look like a president during all 3 debates was a turning point, and if we had even a halway honest media, they would have forced Bush to resign BEFORE the election.

How pathetic for this nation to have a president whose campaign stinks so bad his strategy of choice is to suppress votes, stop people from voting altogether by purging voter rolls, and to rig machines to steal your opponent's votes all over the country.

[NC_Nurse]

26. It's just so hard for me to tell given the total outrage

I have felt almost non-stop since these assholes threw the 2000 election. I couldn't believe the sheer audacity of the Repubs then and I can't believe it now.
They HAVE NO SHAME.
The Schiavo thing really incensed me being a REAL medical person and not a thug like Frist. I don't know a medical ethics board anywhere that would choose to STEP IN IT like he did.
What a f*uckin prick that guy is. A total disgrace to the medical profession.
Bush's tough talk after 9/11 made me cringe because he took all the sympathy and support we had worldwide and flushed it down the crapper - along with our reputation as a force for good in the world. Abu Garaib and Gitmo are the fetid icing on THAT cake.
Katrina was a sad testament to these bungling fools and their complete disconnection to reality and the pain and suffering of others (those not in their BASE, anyway).

It seemed like I was relatively alone in my outrage (outside DU of course) until post-Katrina. Then people started to agree with me that something was rotten in DC.

I'm still waiting for my dad though, but what can you do about someone who watches Bill O'Reilly and LIKES him? Ugh!

[charlyvi]

32. That's why I started this thread.

Most of us have seen all the lies, greed and hypocrisy the whole time; so much so that it's hard to know what the breaking point was with the general public.

[me b zola]

27. Schiavo, Cindy Sheehan, KatrinaBush

These events all happened in a relatively short period of time, and they were all very negative for the rethugs.

[charlyvi]

33. And as some of the posters have pointed out,

The Social Security debacle was happening throughout all of it. Shrub seemed oblivious to anything else--and support for the privatization went down the more he kept talking about it.

[malaise]

29. Iraq

but then Schiavo, Cindy and Katrina. Katrina was the icing on McCain's birthday cake.

[charlyvi]

36. While NOLA died......

President George W. Bush joins Arizona Senator John McCain in a small celebration of McCain's 69th birthday Monday, Aug. 29, 2005, after the President's arrival at Luke Air Force Base near Phoenix. The President later spoke about Medicare to 400 guests at the Pueblo El Mirage RV Resort and Country Club in nearby El Mirage. White House photo by Paul Morse

[malaise]

47. That's picture perfect

The last fugging straw.

[eShirl]

39. the nomination of W as the Repub Presidential Candidate for 2000

I mean, c'mon! What were they thinking? Seriously.

[charlyvi]

40. I know what you mean. Didn't anyone look at how he bankrupted Texas? n/t

[DawgHouse]

41. My rabid republican friend began coming out of her brain fog

during the Schiavo controversy. It touched a nerve with her because of something very personal that involved her mother.

[charlyvi]

43. Most families have experience with end of life decisions.

Including Mr. Tom DeLay....who took his own mother off life support. But that was different. He couldn't cull votes from that.

[Beelzebud]

42. It's like a nuclear bomb. Add enough dangerous elements together

and pretty soon critical mass blows the whole thing apart. :D

[charlyvi]

44. I hope so.

Then maybe the REAL repulican party can stand up. I can live with them.

[Hubert Flottz]

45. Stealing the election in 2000...

And crowning(sElecting) a Troglydent!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. Without A Doubt It Was The Schiavo Fiasco.

[charlyvi]

49. I think I have to agree.

It brought out the extreme religious right....on display 24/7 for the nation to see. The rock solid base of the republican party.

[electron_blue]

48. Katrina appalled people massively on both sides

[rman]

50. It started with Bush in 2000

The things you mention made it worse.

Why would one single thing have caused it?

[charlyvi]

55. One single thing wouldn't have caused the slide.....

But one thing would stand out in shrub supporter's minds that would have begun the process of rethinking this administration's governance. The small snowball that starts the landslide. The point at which former supporters began realizing their party was lying to them; the point at which apathetic Americans began to realize the effect of all the lies and greed.

[rman]

59. The snowball that started it

was the 2000 election.
I think people becoming aware of the lies is a continuous process.

[Toots]

52. A better question would be what didn't start their collapse?

Is there a single thing they have done that hasn't been extremely harmful to the majority of Americans? It just takes Americans longer than others to gather the evidence so to speak. It has been one long orgy for the GOP and the American people were the ones being screwed and now they are getting sore and feeling used from so much screwing...

[charlyvi]

54. The "do not call" list

That's the only thing I can think of that I agreed with. Sad, huh?

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

53. Iraq

It just kept getting worse and worse, and all the other things, Katrina, Dubai Ports, Schiavo, etc., etc., just piled on top of it and amplified the Iraq debacle.

[charlyvi]

58. Donal Rumsfeld, Feb. 2003...

In testimony before Congress:

"It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."

We have now been in Iraq longer that we fought WWII with Japan. Tragic.

[KittyWampus]

57. Richard Clarke Was The Mighty Oak That Fell Across The River

and allowed the creation of the current logjam.

Richard Clarke and then Joe Wilson's editorial outing the bogus nature of the Niger Documents.

[blm]

61. I agree that started it for the "thinking" Independents and Republicans.

And we had many of them come in for Kerry yard signs in North Carolina ranting about that and the defecit.

[Hosnon]

60. It never stopped. Something has always happened to bump them up but

not recently.

They've always been on the downhill...

[earth mom]

62. I'd like to think it was Katrina, but given the greediness of the rethugs

it was probably the high gas prices. :eyes:

[sandnsea]

64. Social Security

And then Schiavo, Cindy, Katrina and the scandals and complete unraveling after.

[Cha]

66. I'd like to think something as blatantly

neglectful, by bush, as Katrina's devastation to New Orleans woke up something in the masses and really started the ball rolling down hill.

[mnhtnbb]

67. I think Katrina was the defining moment. People left to die. Abandoned

while Bush ignored the horror, the pain, the calamity, and played politics in his late attempt to get control of the LA National Guard. Defended the incompetent, Brownie. I think Americans could identify that if the Bushies cared so little about New Orleans, their city could be next.

[MamaBear]

68. At The Point ...

At the point when a person stops short and realizes that the GOP will be happy to throw him or her under the bus to stay in power.

Stem cell research, minimum wage, Social Security, Shiavo, certainly nobody likes the idea of being abandoned by the government in a time of national disaster as the Katrina people have been.

Whether a watershed moment or a slowly growing realization, people who aren't delusional will generally at some point see that their interests aren't being promoted; in fact, they are being sold down the drain to the oil companies. So I would add high oil prices, which have miraculously plummeted just in time for an election.

[jmowreader]

69. I know what was the final nail in the coffin

[AtomicKitten]

70. Schiavo made people wince -- Katrina delivered the death blow

eom

[Initech]

71. I think it's the merger of republicanism and Christianity

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

72. Katrina. How can you top the destruction of a major American city,

through neglect?

Shrubco has never really recovered from it, even though they still agressively spin the shit out of everything.

[charlyvi]

73. Yep..

The flooding didn't destroy NOLA; neglect did.

[ecstatic]

74. gas prices

Unfortunately, while the other issues were bothersome to most, people don't care until it directly affects their pockets.

[Zynx]

75. Oddly enough, Terri Schiavo will be on future political science exams.

You can trace the collapse of post-election Republican status and poll numbers directly to that fiasco.

Hell of a thing to spend political capital on. I think we can stop calling Rove a genius now.

[charlyvi]

80. They overreached, and it ended up killing them. n/t

[Raine]

77. Schiavo started it

then all the other stuff snowballed into a huge GIGANTIC mess that is biting them in their ugly asses! :evilgrin:

[charlyvi]

79. LOL! They really are ugly, at least on the inside!

[bunkerbuster1]

82. Schiavo was the shark-jumping moment

Most people just didn't realize it, but they'd horribly played their hand, and after Cindy and Katrina, they never recovered.