The America We Know And Love Comes To An End Tues 10/17/06 9:15 a.m.

[kpete]

October 14, 2006
America will end on October 17 at 9:35 a.m.
Diary Entry by Mary Shaw

::::::::

I'm talking about the America that I had come to know and love -- the America that stands for human rights, moral values, goodness and decency.

On Tuesday, October 17, at 9:35 a.m., George W. Bush will sign the Military Commissions Act and abolish some important rights that our founding fathers had placed at the heart of our democracy.

Thereafter, Bush and his agents will have the power to arbitrarily decide that you may be a threat to this nation. They can then lock you up and throw away the key. They don't have to tell you why you're being detained. They can torture you, as long as they don't call it that. They don't have to reveal whatever evidence they might have against you, so there is no way that you'll ever be able to dispute that secret evidence or prove your innocence. You're at their mercy.

This sounds like the kind of thing that goes on in brutal third-world dictatorships. But soon it will be the new American way.

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=1986
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/109/senate/2/votes/259/

[Hugin]

1. They've been working hard to turn this into yet another Banana Republic...

Finally made it.

[leftofthedial]

2. no statute can alter the Constitution

we no longer live in a country ruled by law though, so that may be an irrelevant theoretical nicety

[Hugin]

6. From what I understand... Changes in the Constitution require ratification

But, no Constitution, no need for anything so formal.

This is... Y.O.Y.O. Government. (You're On Your Own)

[Warren Stupidity]

25. With one exception this hideous legislation does not alter

the constitution. That exception concerns habeas corpus, and the courts may very well strike down that part of the law. The rest of the crapolaw alters existing laws and treaties and that is well within constitutional bounds.

[Bjorn Against]

44. You can't just alter a treaty with a majority vote in Congress

International treaties are not so simple to change, I believe it requires a two thirds majority vote in Congress.

[Warren Stupidity]

48. You are wrong.

In fact treaties can and have been abolished simply by executive order. It is only ratification that requires special action, there is no reciprocity for alteration or abolition.

Look it up, I did and I was amazed.

[peekaloo]

3. as evidenced by his second inauguration, er, coronation.

Even the tee-vee commentators noted it resembled a banana republic/third world display.

[bobthedrummer]

4. We've been fascist for years thanks to the culture of death-BFEE.

[glitch]

5. These are inherent rights, not given to us by the Constitution.

They are elucidated in the Constitution, but no matter what this criminal congress passes and this criminal administration signs, or even the supreme court approves, we still have these rights, and all will be subject to prosecution who abridge them.

edit: and every other human being on this planet has these rights as well, not just Americans.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. I don't like this any better than you, but consider IF . . .

if at least in the future, there is a democratic majority in both the House and Senate and enough republican ready to vote with the dems, this law can be invalidated. Or maybe the Court will invalidate it on constitutional grounds before that happens. I can be as cynical as anyone else, but I refuse to be defeated indefinitely. I'm not accepting it and will work to get it off the books as soon as it can happen.

[RufusEarl]

8. I wonder how many journalist will report leaked stories,

with secret classifications? Yup this little law will put a stop to journalist informing the public because of fear of being charged with aiding abetting the enemy.

Perhaps when the Dem's take charge of the government next year, they will repeal this hideous piece of crap.

[pretzel4gore]

9. we can use this to rip fascism out by its roots

looking forward to seeing mediawhores and gopigs hanging from every tree, by the feet outta thousands of windows, herded into transport trucks for trips to alaska badlands (after proper trial-by-peoples'-tribunal and sentencing, of course)
(it's almost freaky that the supposedly 'anti big government conservatives' have set themselves up for punishment!)

[Pharaoh]

21. We don't operate that way

but you can have your fantasyO8)

[wtmusic]

10. Are there any protests scheduled?

:shrug:

[BeFree]

23. Protest?

Funny you should ask. I am to appear in front of a Judge in a few days. Just jury duty, mind you.

So, I'm sitting here thinking..... what if I use the solemn occasion to petition the government in the course of my pursuit for happiness and truth and justice for all?

I mean, there they will be. All the potentially excluded judges, prosecutors, lawyers and jury folks.... all in one room, all gathered under the auspices of the constitution and all that jazz.

Ya think it's a good idea, or what? What would you do and say?

[wtmusic]

41. It'll probably get you out of jury duty

but accomplish not much else.

[originalpckelly]

11. Oh God, you don't think the SCOTUS that just ruled this...

unconstitutional won't do it once again? You do realize that they said it was unconstitutional because it doesn't contain all the requirements to make it a fair trial. The whole part about common article three is that it says all trials must include the things civilized people expect in a fair trial. The justices used our constitution and the basic rights it gives as a guide post for their decision.

In other words this will be ruled unconstitutional faster than you can say Habeas Corpus. Just because Congress decided to do something illegal, doesn't make it legal!

And if the SCOTUS doesn't do it? Well that is when we are screwed, but that is highly unlikely.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. They did not rule 'this' unconsitututional.

They ruled that what Bush was doing violated existing laws, including article 3 of the GC, to which we are a signatory. This law simply removes that objection by making a new law, which last I heard, invalidates conflicting old laws. The SCOTUS may rule that parts of this new law are unconsitutional or they may not, but they have not already ruled on 'this'.

[mntleo2]

12. It Is the Way Of The Bushes For Generations

Granpappy was a Nazi sympathizer, Daddy was responsible for the rape, torture and death of thousnands in S America (including missionaries, nuns and priests), it runs in the family. Bushes and their ilk think it is perfectly natural for everyone else to endure ther horrible policies but that they are entitled to live above it all in luxury in their mansions and ranch spreads untouched and with the belief that the "little guys" deserve what they got handed to them.

I detest these people!

Cat In Seattle

[cyberpj]

13. Isn't there already a case that will make The Supremes decide on this? nt

[rsmith6621]

14. K&R

Sadly

[bullimiami]

15. it is patently unconstitutional. it changes nothing.

unlawful men will do unlawful things and pass unlawful laws to cover their asses.

[AzDar]

28. If I could recommend a reply, this would be the one...well-said!! n/t

[wtmusic]

42. Yeah, well...

as long as those unlawful laws are enforced it changes a lot. Your emails and phone calls are most certainly being scanned due to those laws.

[malaise]

16. Kick n/t

[Skidmore]

17. This law basically makes trials by any name nonessential for

anyone. Since any act can be interpreted as a threat to the state and any person can be detained if the right person makes that decision, what does this do to the actual practice of administering justice. It seems to me that the justice has been made a hollow and empty husk. Part of this act also makes it illegal to contest it. Does it not put any dissenters in the position of only having armed revolt as a tool to dismantle it? If Congress has passed a law which is unconstitutional the courts must abide buy it until it is declared as such, right? If you can't contest it, then the courts as a counterbalance to the legislative and executive branches have been nullified.

Lawyers or judges online, help me out here. Am I understanding this correctly?

[mirandapriestly]

18. and people say they are "incompetent", lol...eom

[oldboy101]

19. We cannot depend on the SCOTUS to stop this power grab.

Once the Military Commissions Act is signed into law, do not be surprised if four of the Supreme Court justices are placed on house arrest pending an investigation of charges of possible treason.

Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, David Souter and John Paul Stevens all voted against giving the presidency to George W. Bush back in 2000. What could be more treasonous than that? I'm sure the remaining five justices will get the message. :grr:

[marmar]

20. The roundup of DUers will begin at 9:30....

See you in Guantanamo, brothers and sisters.

[grasswire]

27. remember the sign and countersign

It was established a couple of months ago here.

Sign: "Moo"

Countersign: "Cows are pretty"

[Warren Stupidity]

22. I'd like to think that you are engaged in hyperbole

unfortunately you are not. The dreadful importance of this moment in history simply cannot be overstated.

[stephinrome]

26. just curious, how does she know the date and time?

I'm asking because I've been keeping a watch on the WH press releases to see when he signs so I can send a letter I've prepared to the Italian newspapers.

Thanks.

Steph

[global1]

29. Rove's October Surprise.......

once signed * will say any voting Democrat will be shuttled away. That would assure the Repugs keeping control of Congress - both the house and senate. It also accounts for *'s optimism that they will win in November.

[Patchuli]

35. There is one big logistical problem

since the majority of Americans oppose * and his banana republic, where are they going to put us all? How can possibly lock up all of us???? Not to mention, the military is beginning to rebel. I think you start putting Americans away willy-nilly including families of soldiers, the BFEE may have a bigger problem that they (probably never) anticipated. Not only that, the operation of the country would pretty much stop since WE the People make it go.

I also think the SCOTUS is going to rule this is bullshit. Again. I think this is scare tactic and quite frankly, I'm sick of them. They wore that 'terra' button out a long, long time ago.

[Mister Ed]

72. I hope you're right...

...but I'm still worried. A dictatorship doesn't need to round up everyone that doesn't like it. They make an example of a few, and the rest get the message.

[Patchuli]

74. Only if we allow it and the military

continues to take orders against their own wishes. I think the little 'Dick-tator' is going to fizzle just like he does at everything else he's tried in life.

[matthewf]

30. it was fun while it lasted...

this america thing...

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftchick]

34. If I could recommend any post

This would be the one! Excellent Jcrowley. I don't feel so alone now.

:)

[INDIA]

63. Since the post got deleted...

could you fill the rest of us in?

[rockymountaindem]

39. Then why bother?

Why not just drop out of politics?

[earth mom]

32. RIP U.S.A.

I loved the ideals, hopes, and dreams the forefathers had for you...tragic that others cruelly did not. :cry:

[Greeby]

36. I don't see why everyone is so worked up about this particular bill

the BFEE has been doing everything in this bill for the past six years. They don't give a shit about laws saying they can't do it. If this bill had been defeated, do you think for one second that Shrubco would stop kidnapping people, throwing them in a gulag and torturing them? Get real.

And if the intent was to use this new law to round up dissenting Americans and strip them of their rights, wouldn't it have made sense to try and ram it through immediately after 9/11, perhaps as provisions of the Patriot Act? As Taxloss mentioned in another thread, the conversion from flawed democracy to fascist police state in Germany was rapid and way more open than people seem to think.

As far as I can see, this is a gang of thieves giving themselves a Keep Out Of Jail card for when they are no longer protected by the Presidency.

Geez, some people round here seem to think Occam's Razor is Gilette's latest shaver :eyes:

[indepat]

37. And may everyone who voted for this abomination burn in eternal hell

:grr:

[Aristus]

38. Shit, man! That's my birthday!

Hell of a present, huh?

[JimDandy]

43. Sorry for all the black candles on your cake. n/t

[Solly Mack]

40. Or maybe it just exposes America for what she is

America tortures - and she has before.

So really, that America tortures people is nothing new. So really, legalizing torture is just being more honest about what America is...and isn't.

I won't recount America's history...and No, sorry...no good washes away the bad...there is no scale that weighs the injustices done to one people against any good done to other people. Those who were wronged by America take no comfort from any good America has done for others. It just doesn't work that way - no matter what feel good stories you were told as a child.

Those being tortured in the name of America's security won't forget they were tortured because America sends a care package to hungry children in Somalia. The illegally detained won't forget they were detained for years without rights, for no reason, just because America aids tsunami victims.

A good done for one does not wash away the bad done to another.

No one - but no one - owes America forgiveness. They don't owe America anything.

America has but one course of action available to her if she ever hopes to live up to the ideas she hypes

Jail the guilty...ALL the guilty. Strip them of power so completely that the chance of such people ever returning to power is zero. Then set about actually living up to the ideas behind America...and smack down with a vengeance any that stand in the way of America living up to a promise she has never kept. Apologize to the world. Rebuild what we have destroyed. Humble ourselves and beg forgiveness.

And if America cannot do that - then America is what she is...and she will never be anything else but what she is right now.

[bobbolink]

49. I hate to say this, but I think you're right. Now we're seeing under the

rug.

All the stuff that's been swept there all these years.... ain't so pretty when it's in plain sight.

USians are great for denial, and that's where we've been about our nation. Watergate didn't get out all the detritus, and Iran/Contra was neatly put under said rug, and it's built from there, so here we are, without a dust pan large enough.

"What a fine mess you've gotten us into this time..."

[Solly Mack]

51. It's a mighty lumpy carpet...and filthy

and to create the kind of America we think of when we think of the ideas America is supposed to represent, we have to clean the carpet...and keep it clean. Maybe even remove it....too tempting just laying there.

[bobbolink]

58. I'm afraid it has rotten away underneath.

I fear there's no "there, there" any longer.

"The price of democracy is eternal vigilance"

Are any of us up for that?

That's what I'm wondering.

I mean, really, are we?

We long for the good ole days, when we could let Joe do it, while we went about our business.

Now it's hitting us in the face.

But, how long could we maintain that vigilance, if we got the rug taken out, and replaced? How long would it be before we were lulled again, and thought, "Well, sweeping just this little bit, because we have more important things to do right now, wouldn't really hurt, and we can clean it up later."

sigh...

[Solly Mack]

60. Excellent points all - Sadly so.

Sometimes I feel like the great experiment was to see just how long would it take to breed out spirit and gumption in a person, to break their will - so that they will accept just anything and label it "good" government without putting up too much resistance.

Read a history book and see how people used to march straight up to the governors house or the factory owners house with pitchforks and demand change or their ouster.

Course, you'll get those who say we don't need to do that anymore. That times have changed and there are better ways to accomplish change....you know, through the "system"....that exact same system that's oppressing you to begin with, I might add.

The system is broken...and people who benefit from the system remaining broken will fight any attempt at fixing it.

But you're right...no change will stand if we just allow ourselves to be lulled again

[leftchick]

52. well said Solly

I just had my post removed for, I am not sure but apparently for expressing those same feelings. Sad isn't it?

:(

[Solly Mack]

56. Hi!

I noticed that actually and was curious...

I know many people will think what I'm saying is defeatist but it's not.

We can't have an America that never was....But we can have an America that does live up to her words of justice and liberty and freedom and equality....if we fight for that America - that future America - instead of an America that never existed. Don't mourn what we have never had - fight for what we could be.

And that means sending the guilty to prison and showing any future wanna be dictators that we will not tolerate it. That means electing only those who fully understand that the people will no longer consent to be governed by those who put profit over the people or their own desires over the people. That we don't consent to be governed by what passes for government these days - things like "just politics" or "that's just how the game is played"

The game kills

"just politics" kills

[leftchick]

57. Apparently

I pissed someone off? :shrug:

At any rate what you have expressed so much better than I is exactly what I meant to convey in my original post. There is not a lot of America's actions in the world to be proud of. There is hope for the future but most certainly not based on past US actions. The criminals need to be held accountable in order for us to pave a new path for this country.

:)

peace and hope,
lc

[otherlander]

62. Agreed.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say in my post below.

Jail the guilty...ALL the guilty.:toast:

[bonito]

45. But soon it will be the North American union way

Thats what I think about all of this, If I'm wrong tell me.

[stepnw1f]

46. It'll Never Succeed.... They Will Have to Kill Us All

I will never live in shackles.... what say you America?

[otherlander]

47. Was that America ever there to begin with?

The CIA manuals that were declassified in 1984 show that this has been the government's way of doing things for quite a while now. It's true, of course, that we have to fight back. But the America that we're fighting for is something of the future.

Or, as Langston Hughes put it,
The land that never has been yet
And yet must be, the land where every man is free.

:patriot:

[bobbolink]

59. Read Solly's posts. I think you're on the same track.

:hi:

:toast:

[upi402]

50. and they will ramp it up incrementally

You can tear a phone book in half, one page at a time.

[lovuian]

53. I believe this may tip America into civil war

things are going to get pretty chaotic and crazy in America

[helderheid]

54. On my 7 year wedding anniversary

:cry:

[Brundle_Fly]

55. Someone might have to fall on the grenade of

Democracy to stop him.

This is the most important issue there has been in the last six years, hell 20 years, and no one and nothing seems to want to stop it...

A last call for a patriot!

[dogindia]

61. k&R.

[whirlygigspin]

65. going bananas

So Tuesday is oficially banana republic day!

I say make fun of it

since laws no longer matter...dis-obey

buy lots of banana's!

Give them to cops and say "happy banana republic day!"

Yes we have no banana's...

I think I'll take some bananas over to the supreme court and pass them around. lol

Laugh at them!

I think I'll make a big sign that says:
Goodbye rights! Happy Banana Republic day!
Free banana's for the flying monkey right!

Join me! Let's all send Bush some banana's, better yet, throw them over the WhiteHouse gate!

[Olney Blue]

64. I am ashamed of my country.

[Helga Scow Stern]

66. Safeguards for the next stolen election?

[nolabels]

69. At a minimum, perhaps another invasion or two in the future also

They can only ratchet up what they have to work with

[Land Shark]

67. thanks for this important update

[mmonk]

68. You mean all this rogue state and unconstitutional

behavior becomes "official". Every person that made this possible is an internal enemy of the US as has been defined in the past by our laws and defining documents. No one can be forgiven for this danger we have been put in. I will never forgive or forget any of them or this administration that has made this darkness possible. I'm an American by constitutional standards, they ARE NOT. I reject their illegal proclamations. May someone in the judiciary save this union since the challenge has been filed before this illegal bill was contrived by this contrived government.

[orleans]

70. will that be eastern or central time? either way, i'm still not setting

my alarm to get up for it.

(the country will still be fucked no matter what time i wake up)

by the way k&r

[althecat]

71. ..... Democratic Senators Who Are Traitors To The Constitution

Thomas Carper, Tim Johnson, Mary Landrieu, Frank Lautenberg, Joseph Lieberman, Robert Menandez, Bill Nelson, Ben Nelson, Mark Pryor, Jay Rockefeller, Kenneth Salazar, Debbie Stabenow

[lwcon]

73. As sickening as this new law is...

... it's just as sickening that Bush's poll numbers bounced when he campaigned for these provisions. Until Foleygate, this defiling of the Constitution and Geneva Conventions made our countrymen feel better about him! For shame, for shame.

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[bbgrunt]

75. Time to start wearing black armbands.