Dinner with friends last night

[radfringe]

My partner and I went to dinner with our neighbors who live in back of us, they have also become good friends.

the me preface this by saying - they are registered Republicans, but they don't drink the kool-aid.

From the time they first registered to vote, they signed up as Republicans because their family was republican, and basically didn't give a thought about it beyond that.

They told us they vote for dems/repubs alike depending on the issues and the candidate - and other than the "r" on their voter registration form - they have no particular allegiance to any party platform

two things they mentioned at dinner:

1. they think this is the dirtiest campaign season they have ever seen with both sides more interested in throwing mud than debating issues. They did agree with me that the intensity of the mudball fights is because the Dems are fighting back instead of laying down and taking hits - and they did agree it was about time the Dems did so. They did agree that dirt works and that's really sad.

2. They are voting for the House/Senate Dem candidates (Carney / Casey) as opposed to the repub incumbents (Sherwood / Santorum). They are frustrated with the direction of the country, they feel the repubs have done nothing but "rubberstamp" anything bush wants with no regard of what it means to regular people. They said we needed to clean out the House and Senate, and if means Dems take control then so be it, hopefully under Dem control there will be some "real" work done.

Among the things which has them concerned is -

-- taxcuts for the wealthy - which hasn't trickled down to help regular people

-- they expect gas prices to spike right after the election, they see the dip in prices over the past few weeks as political manipulation

-- influence of lobby money on legislation, as they put it "yeah, if I had a few thousand dollars I might able to get bills passed that would help me too..."

-- one of them has a mom, with heart problems and a few other medical conditions - she just fell into the donut hole, can't afford meds. They are working with her doctor to get her at least some of the med through 'sample' handouts. They said "It's like they want people to die before they can reach the other side of the hole"

-- the other one has a sister who is a teacher, and they listen to her repeatedly complain about having to teach to a test, instead of teaching the subject matter

-- on Iraq - it's a mess. and on the bush foreign policy as a whole (including war on terror) "he hasn't a clue"

[Hugin]

1. The 'rubber stamping' meme holds lots of influence over...

republicans with critical thinking skills. I've had others cite this very
thing as the reason they will either be withholding their vote or voting for
a challenger this election.

I guess it's a consensus among Americans...

[ktowntennesseedem]

2. Sounds like at least a few Repub friends of mine.

Unfortunately around here, as long as a candidate says their against abortion and gays, it doesn't matter how lousy they are at anything else. Its as if GOP and GOD are simply two ways to spell the same thing.

[1932]

3. So, to summarize, if you pay taxes, buy gas, know someone with health

problems, know a school teacher, or contemplate american foreign policy on any level or the process by which a bill becomes a law and the roll of lobbyists in that process, then you're probably upset with Republicans.

[demnan]

4. My biggest surprise in canvassing

was how much the Republicans I talked to really love Jim Webb. Granted, these are Northern Virginia Republicans and Independents, but the response has been overwhelming. If some people are voting for Allen, they're ashamed to admit it to me. My neighbor the Hummer guy upstairs didn't put an Allen sign in his window. In 2004 my Kerry sign was followed by a Bush sign, this year Jim Webb reigns over the condo building. What a change a couple of years can make. I guess the high price of gas affected him since he has to feed that black monster he has parked out front.

[izzie]

5. Very interesting. Did you see the front page of the NYT

Interesting item on re-doing some laws for business. As we can now see this far right thinking has reached every site in govt. and plans are made to make every thing in their ideals. Lets see if the GOP gets the House if they try to put them in. What most sites are doing, being public parks or in health care or what ever, is not doing the laws that are already on the books so it is almost as good as having Congress in the bag. No one watching out for the people. I think as this type stuff has moved out to effect people they are starting to see what is going on.

[abluelady]

6. They Make Sense

The problem is that too many repukes don't "think" until they are hit with something. My fear is that by the time enough people feel the repuke disaster, it is going to be too late. How can we make people understand the danger this type of administration can do?

[pretzel4gore]

7. 'attend to the quality of your friends'

radfringe, there'll be no more of this cavorting with enemy combatants (unless your 'friends' totally rebuke their past gopig transgressions and sign on the dotted line)
so many of bush's sneakythief 'laws' will become handy in the near future; your 'friends' probably have an inkling they are on the record and will be have to be dealt with :)
fascism is a thought crime...bookem dano

[BonnieJW]

8. On Bill Mahar Friday night

ultra conservative Andrew Sullivan declared that if everyone doesn't vote Democrat or abstain from voting, we will get the government we deserve. He is a true repub conservative who loves his country and wants us to get our democracy back. He understands that the road to democracy now means voting in a dem majority.

[NMDemDist2]

9. Sullivan has really come around. I've seen him on CSpan a couple

times and he's digusted and appalled by the current Admin

[sandnsea]

10. What Democratic mud slinging?

Do they not differentiate between telling the Macaca truth and lying? I haven't seen any Dems lie abut their opponents. Why do these Republicans not differentiate - and why do we let them get away with it when they refuse to?

[pat_k]

11. Ask them -- "Do you think the Dems should impeach him?". . .

. . .-- Your personal judgment -- Should he be removed from office?"

I've been getting a lot of Yeses from people who self-identify as Republicans .

They usually have a "Yeah, but. . ." or two, but when I shift to "What do YOU think, personally?" they come back with "they should be forced out" -- particularly after I point out Bush and Cheney could easily choose to keep the Presidency Republican (as described in a previous post -- link below, see second section).

I'd like to see DUer's asking this of all their Republican friends and neighbors. Hearing it from the "other side" (the folks from which the mythical backlash is supposed to come) is perhaps the only way more of "us" will begin to get that Impeachment IS Our Positive Agenda.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2907314&mesg_id=2910014

[radfringe]

12. They really don't have any

political leanings toward one party or the other, and cast their votes based on how they feel how well a candidate is able to do the job.

so with them it's not partisan at all. They didn't vote in the primary because they didn't like any of the repub candidates.

they voted for Gore and Kerry, and they wished Kanjorski was still our rep instead of Sherwood.

they are in favor of impeaching bush, but only if cheney was blocked/impeached or otherwise out of the picture for being 2nd in line. They were quite adamant about seeing Cheney as the real power in the administration and would be happy with both bush & cheney gone at the same time.

as far as the mudslinging goes - depends on how you define mud. if it's defined as negative campaigning - then yes both sides are doing it. if you define it based on how truthful is the quality of mud - then you have to look at individual campaigns and decide if it's total fabrication, exaggeration, or gives a misleading impression

[pat_k]

13. A few thoughts on the so-called "poisonous partisanship"

Glad to hear they are in favor of impeachment. I don't think polls even begin to scratch the surface of the actual level of support for it. Instead of picking up what people are thinking, the polls are picking up what people think other people are thinking. That is, they're picking up the "Yeah, but. . ." people ("I want them impeached, but. . ."), which is akin to the "electability" phenomenon ("I want X, but won't vote for because. . .").

WRT to the current "bipartisanship" meme that the establishment is pushing -- a meme I'd like to see nipped in the bud ASAP.

The wrong-headed belief that Americans are looking for "bipartisanship" is based on the erroneous notion that the antidote to "partisanship" is "bipartisanship."

It is not. The antidote to "partisanship" is REALITT -- confronting truth and reality head on and taking the actions demanded by the facts.

The only way any elected official or candidate can prove commitment to our founding principles over party is to fight for those principles regardless of partisan concerns.

Instead of recognizing this and actually rising above partisanship by fighting for core principles, the so-called Democratic strategists think the antidote can be found in cynically "going along to get along" and saying they seek bipartisanship, which people across the spectrum assume is insincere (as demonstrated the assertion that Pelosi is just mouthing what the right wants to hear to mollify them -- something I have heard repeatedly from folks on our side.)

Nothing could be more wrong-headed than attempting to "rise above" poisonous partisanship by playing more partisan games.

[radfringe]

14. Watch

CBS Sunday morning 10/29 - Ben Stein commentary

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2135888n

[dweller]

15. yeah, i was expecting more of a response about

Ben 'the tool' Stein's comments sunday morning. Watched the threads here, didn't see a blip, missed one or two. Your's showed up on search.

I was awake, drinking coffee and enjoying a sunday morning program in bed, and when Ben started up, i closed my eyes and drifted for the moment...

snapped awake as i listened, wondered if i was dreaming or hallucinating, did i hear what he just said?


initially, i thought. Well, for Stein, it's all about the $$$. And for many other Repugs, it's all about the $$$. And when they see that old $$ threatened, they turn.

perhaps the worm is turning.
dp