Is Karl Rove in violation of the Hatch Act?

[bluestateguy]

This law, enacted in 1939, prohibits government employees from using their offices in service of political parties and candidates. You cannot, for example, wear political buttons on the job if you are a government worker. You cannot slap a Kerry-Edwards bumper sticker on your postal vehicle if you are a Postal employee. Nor can you, as a government employee, run political campaigns or parties from your office during work hours. In fact, under the Hatch Act you cannot assume a paid position for a campaign while also receiving a government salary. Nor can you use the powers of your office to manipulate political outcomes, which is why federal prosecutors tend to withhold indictments for political figures that are under investigation until after an election has taken place (Bill Jefferson, Rick Renzi, Curt Weldon, etc.).

So the question that must be asked here is has Karl Rove been violating the Hatch Act systematically for 6 years? He has basically been running the RNC out of the West Wing of the White House. He uses his office, which we the taxpayers pay for, to recruit Republican candidates for office, to put out fires in local Republican parties, and to set the strategic themes of the Bush Administration for no other reason than to enhance the electoral fortunes of the Republican Party. He spends every day planning and plotting, strategizing and in some cases outright running Republican campaigns. Everything that he does is done for the purposes of the Republican Party and the next election.

Now it's time to ask and investigate whether or not this kind of behavior by Rove is a violation of the law.

[emulatorloo]

1. I have written my Senators about it. Please do the same EOM

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. KKKarl is in violation of all the laws of Nature.

Not just the Hatch Act.

[oldtime dfl_er]

3. Isn't his title

"Chief Political Advisor"? Is that a cabinet position? Was it created by Rove? I agree it seems in violation of a lot of laws, both natural and unnatural...

[Penndems]

8. Karl Rove is the Deputy Chief of Staff to the President

He's a political appointee whose salary is being paid for with taxpayer money - not just Republican taxpayers, but Democratic, Independents and third-party taxpayers. If you pay Federal income taxes in this country, Karl Rove is employed by you.

He utilizes supplies paid for by taxpayers: Copiers, fax machines, PDAs, telephones, office supplies - even taxpayer time. Anybody who works for the Federal Government (e.g., on the taxpayers' time, using taxpayer-funded materials), is subject to the Hatch Act.

Therefore, he should be disciplined accordingly.

[Hubert Flottz]

20. Bush is doing the same thing Karl is doing...

[Cass]

4. That is a great question. How come Rove isn't paid by the RNC?

Also, how is legal for them to hold "town hall meetings" like they did for social security and medicare and only allow republicans to attend them? Those town hall meetings were funded by taxpayer money.

[C_U_L8R]

5. Tony Snow sure is

[wicket]

6. It's so disgusting

He's the first white house press secretary ever to campaign.

[uberblonde]

7. I believe Rove is an appointee, not a federal employee.

If so, he'd be exempt from the Hatch Act.

[Hugin]

9. A recent quote from him said he'd use 'federal resources' in

support of the RNC and their agenda.

It was an obvious taunt... It was on NPR, I believe.

[Penndems]

10. It was in the Los Angeles Times:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2585282

[Hugin]

12. Thanks!

:thumbsup: :7

[Penndems]

14. A pleasure, as always!

:hi:

[bluestateguy]

11. Then I think he would be stretching the law there

By that justification, any White House aide, any Cabinet secretary or deputy or undersecretary could essentially operate as a political hack on the job on the taxpayer's dime.

Then there is also the Pendleton Act, which bars fundraising for parties and candidates on the job and in government offices.

[Hugin]

13. Not to mention using an entire Aircraft Carrier for a photo-op...

"Mission Bumble"

Yeah, he has no leg to stand on... He's clearly in violation.

This won't be investigated.

[Penndems]

15. Thanks - I had completely forgotten about The Pendleton Act

He could most definitely be prosecuted under that.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

28. On their time, not their dime.

By that justification, any White House aide, any Cabinet secretary or deputy or undersecretary could essentially operate as a political hack on the job on the taxpayer's dime.

They're more than welcome to be political hacks, even while on duty, in government buildings, as long as the government isn't paying for any of the political hack-specific resources they're using.

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. Rove is a member of the WH staff

and is paid by the Federal Government. Yes, he is subject to the Hatch Act and yes, he violates it on a daily basis.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

31. There's an interesting subthread developing just below your post...

...on the finer points of the Hatch Act. I admit to being somewhat confused by it myself.

[leftofthedial]

16. always has

24X7 ever since the coup of 2000

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

17. There's a special exemption for employees of the...

...Executive Office of the President. They're allowed to engage in political activity while on duty and in their offices, provided that the money to pay for said activity isn't coming from the government. How exactly this rule is applied is beyond my knowledge, but it would at least seem to cover Rove's ass on a somewhat basic level.

[bluestateguy]

18. OK, but

you still can't run a party or a campaign while drawing a government salary at the same time. That part of the law applies to everybody.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. OK, lemme go find...

...the OSC pamphlet on this issue. Ah, here we go:

http://www.osc.gov/documents/hatchact/ha_fed.pdf

The relevant text is on page four of the PDF:

Employees paid from an appropriation for the Executive Office of the President and employees appointed by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, whose position is located within the United States, and who determine policies to be pursued by the United States in relations with foreign powers or in the nationwide administration of Federal laws may engage in political activity: while on duty; in any government room or building; while wearing a uniform or official insignia; and while using a government vehicle, if the costs associated with the political activity are not paid for by money derived from the Treasury of the United States.

So assuming that he's not using gov't $$$, then what's important is the definition of "political activity."

[Sammy Pepys]

22. No, it doesn't

It doesn't apply to members of Congress or the Executive Office of the President. If it did, incumbents wouldn't be able to run for office.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

24. I think people are confusing...

...the rules constraining political activity with the prohibition on fundraising.

[bluestateguy]

27. I never asserted that members of Congress were covered by the law

Rove is clearly using the resources of the federal government, the capacity of his job as a White House aide, and government funds to promote the Republican Party and GOP candidates.

[Sammy Pepys]

33. And under the Hatch Act...

...Rove's political involvement during working hours is legal, as an employee in the Executive Office of the President. This was no different then when Clinton was in office.

If it were a violation of the Hatch Act, Rove would've been long busted by now.

[Penndems]

34. Not if he's running a political campaign out of The West Wing on taxpayer resources

If he's working off-campus in an office building in his capacity as a campaign strategist, that's different.

He hasn't been busted by now because the Justice Department is under the control of Alberto Gonzales, and the case could be made that he's every bit as conniving, unethical and diabolical as Rove.

[Sammy Pepys]

35. He can run it out of the West wing during work hours...

..that's not a problem. Read the Hatch Act...it lays it out very clearly.

[Penndems]

36. Thank you, but after twenty years as a Fed, I know the Hatch Act

I went through an ethics class for incoming employees in the Immediate and Executive Offices of the President when Clinton was in The Oval Office. (For all you right-wing trolls who might be reading this, those classes were 1 1/2 hours in length, conducted at bi-weekly intervals and were mandatory.)

When Bill Clinton ran for a second term, Carville and Begala ran the Clinton-Gore campaign out of the offices of the Democratic National Committee, and the Committee paid for darn near everything. They sure as hell weren't employed by the USG, or practicing partisan politics in The West Wing - and this was after the Hatch Act was amended.

Rove is no different, and he should be held to the same standards.

[Sammy Pepys]

37. Well, between you and the text of the Hatch Act sitting on my desk...

...I'll take the text.

[Penndems]

38. That's your perogative, my friend

n/t

[Sammy Pepys]

40. Also logical...n/t

...

[Penndems]

42. There's no need to be confrontational or snide here

You don't know me, so I understand where you're coming from.

[Sammy Pepys]

43. Well, yeah...that's while I'll trust the text... :)

Look, I didn't mean to be insulting or anything. For that I apologize. But we're just two anonymous posters on an internet message board. I was Fed at one point myself. But it's neither here nor there.

[Penndems]

19. The money IS coming from the USG

If he's using taxpayer-funded resources to run a political campaign from The White House (which is, in and of itself, maintained with taxpayer money and located on Federal land), we're talking about serious ethics violations here.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

23. ok...

But there's a conundrum here. He is specifically permitted to conduct political activity on government property, provided that the resources he's using aren't paid for by the government. So really the main things he needs are his own personal laptop computer and cell phone. He's even allowed to use a government vehicle, provided that RNC pays for the fuel (my reading of the rule, but IANAL.)

[Penndems]

26. If he's using anything purchased by taxpayers while in the employ of the USG,

he's in violation.

Rove isn't just using his office in The West Wing in his capacity as Deputy Chief of Staff to the President. He's using it to run a partisan political campaign on taxpayer time and resources.

If I had done something like this when I worked there during the Clinton Administration, I would've been shit-canned in a New York minute, and every news outlet and right-wing nutcase in the country would've been screaming bloody murder.

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that cell phone and laptop were paid for with Federal funds. I know for a fact that the maintenance, gas and the limo itself were funded on the taxpayers' dime.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

30. What about this scenario?

The Preisdent and his political advisor fly on Air Force One to Ohio to stump for a congressional candidate. It sounds like you're saying that this sort of activity would be prohibited, but obviously it isn't. So I guess I'm confused about where the line is drawn. Where is the line drawn, exactly?

[Penndems]

32. In answer to your question yibbehobba, please see this Q&A from yesterday's

Washington Post political chat with Michael Abramowitz, their White House Correspondent:

Alexandria, Va.: When Bush travels to Texas, Georgia, etc. to campaign for Republican candidates, does the taxpayer pay for the flights and expenses? Does Bush take vacation time to do the campaigning?

Michael Abramowitz: As with other presidents before him, the cost of political travel is picked up by parties and campaigns. But it is never enough to defray the full costs of security and other items--so in the end, taxpayers do pick up some to it.

Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2006/10/24/DI2006102400876.html

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

44. One problem with that...

1) Political activity of this kind (by certain people) is specifically permitted in Federal government buildings and on Federal government property.

2) Federal govenment property is, almost by definition, a resource maintained at Federal government expense.

Thus, there would be no point in specifically permitting the activity in #1 if it were totally precluded by #2.

[Hugin]

25. You mean starting a War in Iraq for political gain?

Hell yes he's in violation.

[The Count]

39. Him, Bush and all the government officials he pulls for 24/7 campaign work

Our tax money pays for that!

[bif]

41. What about Snow doing fundraisers? Is that legal?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. Depends on where he's doing them. n/t